build 15 - audio

[A. Bastaki]

is audio fixed on build 15?
cuz i've got the xlr converter from red, and i get hiss when i use the 48v phantom power

EDIT:
Hear it. http://www.bastaky.com/RED-MICTEST.mov\
mini xlr - to normal xlr... "still don't solve the problem." cause i got it..

http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3760&d=1205830265
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[Andrew M.]

BTW is phantom power enabled on build 15 now?
14 had it disabled.


Are you using mike with the preamp?
Don't mix up the line and preamp mode.
Here is good link for all your trouble:

http://www.trewaudio.com/audioflow/2008/03/12/are-you-redy/

[Craig Bowman]

On build 15 phantom power is moved to a new menu unto itself.

[A. Bastaki]

alrighty.. i sent in a ticket.

here's the Question:
HISS. on builds 13 and 15.. when i turn the phantom power on for my mic... i did get a xlr to mini-xlr adapter with my red... though i don't know if it's the new one or not.

Answer:
If your cable is one solid piece then your good if it is a cable with a 2nd piece that is the xlr adapter then don't use that one for phantom power.

--------------------------

I didnt quite get it. :s
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[Wes Printz]

alrighty.. i sent in a ticket.

here's the Question:
HISS. on builds 13 and 15.. when i turn the phantom power on for my mic... i did get a xlr to mini-xlr adapter with my red... though i don't know if it's the new one or not.

Answer:
If your cable is one solid piece then your good if it is a cable with a 2nd piece that is the xlr adapter then don't use that one for phantom power.

--------------------------


What is this 2nd piece??? is it an XLR M-F?
Info I have on the correct adaptor is: TA3M ----- (pad) XLRF just as your picture shows.

[Kevin Halverson]

alrighty.. i sent in a ticket.

here's the Question:
HISS. on builds 13 and 15.. when i turn the phantom power on for my mic... i did get a xlr to mini-xlr adapter with my red... though i don't know if it's the new one or not.

Answer:
If your cable is one solid piece then your good if it is a cable with a 2nd piece that is the xlr adapter then don't use that one for phantom power.

--------------------------

I didnt quite get it. :s

Hello Akube,

Assuming that the photograph you have attached is the cable that you are using, it is the correct one.

Let's look at your comment/complaint.

You state when you use build 13 or build 15 (the only ones with phantom power enabled) you get "hiss". Several questions come to mind:

1) With build 14 and this microphone, how was the mic powered given that the camera was not providing the phantom power?

2) What gain setting is the channel of the camera set at that has this mic attached?

It is likely that you are simply revealing the noise floor of this mic when it is operational (being powered). If this microphone has the ability to be both phantom and battery powered, compare the two conditions. It is perfectly normal for there to be a small difference in the noise floor of a mic between these two modes as batteries have no residual noise component, only the DC elevation.

Kevin Halverson

[A. Bastaki]

em.. i never bothered trying my mic with build 14 cause the mic powering option was turned off.

I just got my mic... its a neumann kmr81i.. and it aint got no battery compartment to it. just mic.

1. i tested it on my canon xha1... no hiss.
2. tested it on the RED... it was nothing but hiss and all the recorded voice sounded like way below. it was some loud hiss.
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[A. Bastaki]

i tried different recording levels.. from as low as it could be to the normal 32db level...

i even tried all channels. they all have got hiss.

here... hear it... http://www.bastaky.com/RED-MICTEST.mov
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[Elizabeth Lowrey]

The hiss I hear in your sample is not unlike the hiss that was present when audio was first enabled (build 13, IIRC?). With a brand new mic that works with other equipment, I would assume that something's still amiss with RED audio.

Do you have a mixer or other auxiliary source of phantom power that you could plug the mic into and feed a line out from that into RED?

[Kevin Halverson]

em.. i never bothered trying my mic with build 14 cause the mic powering option was turned off.

I just got my mic... its a neumann kmr81i.. and it aint got no battery compartment to it. just mic.

1. i tested it on my canon xha1... no hiss.
2. tested it on the RED... it was nothing but hiss and all the recorded voice sounded like way below. it was some loud hiss.

Can you verify that the mic's attenuator is not activated in your configuration?

Please PM me for additional assistance.

Kevin Halverson

[A. Bastaki]

tried with the attenuator on... and tried it off
they all give hiss.
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[Steve Freebairn]

are you using a red supplied cable? Is your channel 1 set to line or mic?

[A. Bastaki]

ive put a pic in the first page to show what kinda red cable i got... yeah its set to mic. chanel 1... actually tried all channels..
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[Philip Lima]

We are having the same problem with our RED and mic setup in build 15. Has anyone had success with recording audio in build 15? We just get hiss, and a very low volume from the mic. We are using a high end shotgun mic with its own power supply. Any ideas?

[A. Bastaki]

We are having the same problem with our RED and mic setup in build 15. Has anyone had success with recording audio in build 15? We just get hiss, and a very low volume from the mic. We are using a high end shotgun mic with its own power supply. Any ideas?

its OWN freggin' Powersupply Too! there goes that solution down the drain.
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[Joel Kaye]

I did a quick test of my inputs.

Here's what I get:

48V not working on all 4 channels. (tried 2 mics that require phantom power)

Dynamic mic (microphone input / 48v disabled)
_ Records on all 4 channels.
_ Monitor and playback through headphones on channels 1 and 2 ONLY.
channels 3 and 4 don't monitor or playback in headphones but do show a recorded signal.

Haven't tried line level input. Maybe someone with a field mixer can give that a try.

I wouldn't be surprised if RED see a lot of jammed miniXLR's in for repair.

[Andrew M.]

ive put a pic in the first page to show what kinda red cable i got... yeah its set to mic. chanel 1... actually tried all channels..

did you try to set to line?
If your mic has pre-amp and you are blasting at line level and camera is on mic instead of line?

check with line and then with mic setup on the camera.

Was the problem confirmed by RED?

[Joel Kaye]

OK - a little more info:

Decided to do a little more testing when I got home (after buying a Mac finally - yep right there in a Box... just for RED)

I have the same cable as is posted earlier in this thread. It's one mini to XLR cable that came with the camera. No adapter.

I power on the camera and see all 4 channels indicate phantom power. Hmmm, I thought I had turned them all off. I put my headphones on and I hear a high level of white noise. No microphone attached. I go to my system audio menu and see that NONE of my 48v options are checked. They are all off, but the menu shows them on. The level indicators are solid green to 3 bars. I assume that's the level of the white noise. Not sure.

Then -
I plug in a 48v Mic and THAT channel's green bar goes to zero and I can actually talk into it and hear the mic is working. I don't know if it's noisy because the other channels are still putting out noise. I played with the menus more and basically got to the point where if 48V is enabled then I get the high level of white noise regardless of whether a microphone is plugged in or not.

The other weird thing is I use ear bud style headphones for monitoring because they are small and block a lot of outside noise - they were getting WARM. Is it possible the camera body's heat is being transmitted through to the ear buds? That just seems all wrong to me...

Is anyone having success with their camera and phantom power?

EDIT - another test.

Rebooted again. This time noted a low level whine on input 2. In playback mode the whine went away went in "pause" and the whine returned in playback. So that noise was recorded.

I also noted that disabling the audio input in the system record on/off checkbox also disabled that channel (2) in playback. That seems like a bug to me.

Oh earbuds immediately got warm even though camera body was still cool.

Overall - audio, still very "beta". I'm concerned that some of this is only going to be hardware fixable. You guys better slow down and check this out or you might have 500 cameras coming back for audio fixes.

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

Overall - audio, still very "beta". I'm concerned that some of this is only going to be hardware fixable. You guys better slow down and check this out or you might have 500 cameras coming back for audio fixes.

That's been my worst fear from the beginning. I for sure will be delaying my purchase until all audio issues are resolved, even though my number comes up (likely) in May.

[Antoine Baumann]

Is anyone having success with their camera and phantom power?



Sorry but may be you should have a look to this:
http://www.sonosax.com/index2.html
look to the MINIR82

I've tested it on a short movie (still in post production) and works very well, sound is good and it is really small.
My only concern is that it seems that the jam sync has one second offset (see my other thread).

Also I've tested the to record directly into the camera but using a sonsax SX42 mixer and setting the camera input to line, and the sound was quite good compare to the same sound but recorded to a pyramix station (http://www.merging.com/).

For best audio, phantom will never be the way to go, however I fully admit it should work like on any digital camera.

cheers,
antoine.

[Paolo Tinari]

That's been my worst fear from the beginning. I for sure will be delaying my purchase until all audio issues are resolved, even though my number comes up (likely) in May.
Red speaking, everything will run smooth for that date (that`s the message i`m sending to the universe)

I`m getting the same hiss. I`m using a 416T (with a 48 converter). With the same set i got no issues on the Hvx

[A. Bastaki]

did you try to set to line?
If your mic has pre-amp and you are blasting at line level and camera is on mic instead of line?

check with line and then with mic setup on the camera.

Was the problem confirmed by RED?

nope. my mic doesnt have a battery.

i'm gonna test it out with another mic... and see if it works.

i kinda thought it was just a problem with my red so why would they confirm it since they mentioned that all these are resolved with the new cable and the new build... apprently it isnt because there are many who are having the same problem.
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[A. Bastaki]

I just tried a self-powered mic (thank you Bassam). it works when i have it powered by the mic's battery... i get no hiss.

Hear it: http://www.bastaky.com/micpower.wav

Though when i turn off the mic's power... and turn the RED phantom power on... i get hiss.

Hear it: http://www.bastaky.com/48v.wav

Conclusion: it could be 1 of two things, or even both causing this anomaly.

i. Audio on build 15 is still a work in progress.
AND/OR
ii. something's wrong with my RED mini-xlr to XLR cable.
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[Philip Lima]

Akube-What self-powered mic did you use? We are thinking of replacing our mic, or getting a pre-amp with 48v built in for audio.

Thanks,
Philip

[Andrew M.]

I have seen post informing that you should dissable all inputs that are not used, including 48V on it.

Phantom power withouth the load will produce the hiss.
Also not enough load on 48V will produce the hiss. (probably)

[A. Bastaki]

i used some sennheiser neck mic... i don't know the model number as it isn't mine.

i'd rec. getting an external power source. khmuse rec. me an AKG B18E or a Crown PH-1A.. i'll be ordering one of those tomorrow.
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[Andrew M.]

i used some sennheiser neck mic... i don't know the model number as it isn't mine.

i'd recc. getting an external power source. khmuse recc. AKG B18E or a Crown PH-1A

her it is, the post:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=179041&postcount=1

Read all.

[A. Bastaki]

i read it long ago... the only extra valuable info there was that some phones work better and some phones suck in use with red.

and i aint gonna buy each and every mic on the planet to figure out which mics work with my camera and which ones don't. i expect my camera, like the rest of the folks here to be compatible with most xlr mics because those mics have worked with all the cameras they've used on before.

i'm pretty sure this will be resolved soon as audio is 70% of what you see.
hence again... build 15 audio is still a wip (work in progress), or the cable i got has some issue.
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[Andrew M.]

Put 600 ohm resistor accross the 48V pahntom and dissable the unused INPUTS including phantom power there.

[Obin Olson]

Put 600 ohm resistor accross the 48V pahntom and dissable the unused INPUTS including phantom power there.

how will this fix the hiss?

[A. Bastaki]

the audio finally worked for me.

I got an AKG B 18 (external phantom power supplier...) it works.
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[Keith Kasp]

I am also having a problem with the audio in Build 15. There is a constant hiss only on quicktime playbacks. Reviewing the file on the camera through headphones did not have the same result. We shot on Thursday 3/27 using a Sound Design 302 mixer set as line out mixer/line in camera, with both a Sennheiser MKH 60 and Sanken CLS11 with the mixer providing phantom power and was still getting the hiss. We tried using the RED mini XLR cable and a custom made two channel mini XLR cable with the same results. After a few tests, we changed the mixer to mic out and the camera to mic in and still received hiss in playback. I dropped one of the files into FCP and after rendering the file was able to fix the audio problem. Unfortunately, the editors for the project have 100GB of footage and with upload and rendering times being quite lengthy it could take 10 hours before the files can be reviewed properly. Should we revert back to build 14? We had done some test runs with it and had no audio difficulties.

[Keith Kasp]

We disabled 48v on all channels one more time and new tests seem clean. We had disabled it prior, but it did not save the setting. Will be shooting again on Wednesday. Will post again if problems reoccur.