Any thoughts on 3D?

[Zack Birlew]

Hey guys, didn't know if this was on topic or not, but I've been looking into 3D cinematography lately out of curiosity and I thought that it would be interesting to talk about the possibility of 3D filming with RED.

Recently I ordered a lot of back issues of American Cinematographer and some of them happened to talk a lot about 3D. One of them, the August 2001 issue, even had an article on the old XL1/S 3D lens Canon was making but canceled before production took place. The lens sounded really cool and I don't know why Canon would have canceled it if it worked as well as the article described. Maybe RED would be interested in making such a lens?

But more likely the process would involve rigging two RED's together like the 3DVX project did with the DVX cameras or the more recent HD3CAM rig with two Z1U's for Night of the Living Dead 3D. However, I'm not interested in anaglyph 3D (red/blue glasses), I'm more interested in stereoscopic 3D (double image). But if someone were to buy two RED's, how exactly would one go about rigging them together? Is there some sort of stand/tripod/adapter available for this purpose already or is it a custom job? Granted not many have $35,000 dollars lying around to buy two RED's, but it's just a thought.

I think I've heard of a way to get stereoscopic 3D in post but I don't remember what it was or how well it worked versus the hardware solution. Anybody else heard of this?

[chuck colburn]

Hi Jack,

Heres a couple of sites that have info on 3-D.
The first one shows the rig we used when shooting 3-D with the CP-65 cameras. These films used the polarized type system.
The second site has info for shooting polarized and red and cyan type viewing.
There are lots of sites on the web with info on how to do both. Just poke around and you will find a wealth of info.

http://www.hineslab.com/

http://www.paradisefx.com/

Chuck

[Lucas Wilson]

I'm more interested in stereoscopic 3D (double image). But if someone were to buy two RED's, how exactly would one go about rigging them together? Is there some sort of stand/tripod/adapter available for this purpose already or is it a custom job? Granted not many have $35,000 dollars lying around to buy two RED's, but it's just a thought.

I think I've heard of a way to get stereoscopic 3D in post but I don't remember what it was or how well it worked versus the hardware solution. Anybody else heard of this?

If you want to learn about 3D... I mean really learn about 3D, go to the master... Lenny Lipton. The guy has pretty much defined all there is about modern stereoscopic imagery. Go to:

http://www.stereographics.com/support/body_whtpaprs.html

and read his books and white papers. "Foundations of the Stereoscopic Cinema" and "The Stereoscopic Cinema: From Film to Digital Projection" are both pretty dense reads, but if you get through them, you'll know pretty much everything there is to know about stereo.

As far as post-production...

SCRATCH does live Stereo playback and review. Digital Domain just finished several months of visual effects dailies for Meet The Robinsons using SCRATCH in stereo mode, tied into the RealD system.

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles

[Stuart English]

Jack, there have been a few threads on this, but unless you have an urgent requirement, I'd also say wait 6 months and come back to this question.

We've provisioned the RED ONE camera with the necessary camera synchronization ports (Timecode, Genlock etc) and several reservation holders told us that they want to use their RED ONE cameras for 3D. I suspect that by Fall, we'll see the results of their work configuring their cameras with appropriate rigs and control systems (its not a trivial task)

Its good to see that for post production of 3D, Scratch at least, has already enabled a workflow. Thank you Lucas.....

[MikeCurtis]

AFAIK, interocular distance is one of the crucial factors. Red is pretty skinny, but not skinny enough to get center of lenses 2 1/8 inches away from each other. Therefore, a 90 degree prism setup is likely to be necessary for optimal interocular distance for proper convergence. This off the top of my head from last year's Digital Cinema Summit, my full notes here:

http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/04/nab-2006-digital-cinema-summit-day-two

and

http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/04/nab-digital-cinema-summit-2006-day-two

[Zack Birlew]

Cool! Thanks for the replies guys, looks like there's a lot to read about and as Stuart says, I guess I'll just wait to see what others do with their RED-based 3D stuff. Can't wait to see what happens! =)

[Jim Arthurs]

But I don't WANT 3D, and neither does anyone I know. I can barely stomach 30 to 40 minutes of IMAX 3D in the best of conditions... watching 2 hours of car chases and gunfights while wearing any sort of damned glasses will flat out kill me.

Now grandpa will shut up and let you 'youngin's have yer dag-blamed interoptical-deelyboopers.

[MikeCurtis]

yo Jim - and don't forget to pull your pants down from your chest....

: )

all in luv...

-mike

[Hrvoje Simic]

Now that's funny.


(luv also)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Now that's funny.

It would've been even funnier in 3D.

...3D luv here.

[Steve Gibby]

Jim,

(Just teasin')

A daily shot of Geritol, Viagra, and Jack Daniels will cure all that...or at least make you forget about it.

If ya gotta unzip yer pants to blow yer nose, maybe they're a bit high!

(I'm 58 so I have a license to tease other "old guys"!)

P.S. - Glassless 3D viewing is possible...

Peace...

[chuck colburn]

That's right always respect ones elders.
WOW! fifty eight, you are old!

Chuck, " I won't be fifty eight till May" Colburn

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Damn, you guys are like old enough to be my dad... Hehe.

But hey, this is my mid-life crisis.... I'm buying a damn camera instead of a sports car. What is wrong with me?

[Steve Gibby]

That's right always respect ones elders.
WOW! fifty eight, you are old!

Chuck, " I won't be fifty eight till May" Colburn

Age is a question of mind over matter...if you don't mind it don't matter!

Stop movin' - start aging

Steve "105 over 80, 20/20, 52 beats per minute" Gibby

[Steve Gibby]

Damn, you guys are like old enough to be my dad... Hehe.

But hey, this is my mid-life crisis.... I'm buying a damn camera instead of a sports car. What is wrong with me?

Taught my grandson to surf and skateboard this year...he now has a new perspective on how he wants to age...

Bought the "equalizers" earlier in life (cars, etc.) - My equalizers are cameras now!

[chuck colburn]

Got that right Gibby.
Often I still feel like it's 1967 and I'm living in the Haigth Ashbury (except nowadays it's micro brews insted of micro dots). I've also been blessed with low blood pressure and a happy heart. So far as the 20/20 goes....how is that laser eye surgery thing?

Chuck

[Steve Gibby]

Got that right Gibby.
Often I still feel like it's 1967 and I'm living in the Haigth Ashbury (except nowadays it's micro brews insted of micro dots). I've also been blessed with low blood pressure and a happy heart. So far as the 20/20 goes....how is that laser eye surgery thing?

Chuck

LOL...I probably bumped into you up there during the summer of '67 - panhandling at Golden Gate Park, Filmore West. etc. I was the guy with 12 people wedged my '57 Chevy delivery panel, and everyone tryin' to play guitar at once! The aspirin/microbrew recovery cycle sure carries a lot less time frame demands for clearin' the fog...

Weird trip man...no Lasic but still 20/20...knock on wood!

[Hrvoje Simic]

Hey AplliedV, you'll probably "nurb" your own sports car in VR in a couple of years anyway... so why spend money now :)

-and Gibby will be blissfully gliding on a hoverboard somewhere taking nK 3D footage of a new breed of glowing seals mutated from the gamma rays...:matrix:

[Jim Arthurs]

Hey AplliedV, you'll probably "nurb" your own sports car in VR in a couple of years anyway... so why spend money now :)

A quote I once heard and liked... "Unlike software, cars still have EXCELLENT copy protection."

Hey, I'm just old enough to have seen several runs at making 3D mainstream... even had a 3D device back in my Super-8 days. I've seen every kind of current 3D out there, from IMAX 3D, Jim Cameron's dual F900 projects, Disney DLT, red-green anagram, the retro 3D'ed Nightmare Before Christmas, etc. It's just not my cup of tea, glasses or no.

No doubt the RED will make the BEST 3D out there... I can even predict a dual sensor version of the RED in the not too distant future.

Now excuse me, I can't remember where I left my false teeth and my warm milk-bread is getting cold...

[MikeCurtis]

my favorite Grampa Simpson line:

"Where's my pills! ....and my pants...."

[Alfredo Gonzalez]

Jack, there have been a few threads on this, but unless you have an urgent requirement, I'd also say wait 6 months and come back to this question.

We've provisioned the RED ONE camera with the necessary camera synchronization ports (Timecode, Genlock etc) and several reservation holders told us that they want to use their RED ONE cameras for 3D. I suspect that by Fall, we'll see the results of their work configuring their cameras with appropriate rigs and control systems (its not a trivial task)

Its good to see that for post production of 3D, Scratch at least, has already enabled a workflow. Thank you Lucas.....

Hi, I'm a 3D stereoscopic team member and we are testing our new system for shooting 3D, a light rig for steadicam, with very good results, and we are thinking about acquire two red for the best 3D image, and also Scratch. I am very interested to know if red camera have remote control systems (like Lanc).

Regards,

Alfredo Gonzalez
D4D Ingenieria Visual

[chuck colburn]

http://www.paradisefx.com/pages/services/compact3d.html