PDA

View Full Version : Dragon....



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 02:51 AM
Is done.

Dragon will likely win the award for the most suitable name ever given to a product. Its been quite the beast to tame, with quite a few fires started along the way.

Dragon ( the sensor ) was actually done before NAB... when you all saw cameras being put together. Sorting out the existing camera infrastructure so the sensor and the ASIC could be an upgrade has been the consuming part.

But we are there. Final parts are now being sent off to manufacturing and customer upgrades will begin the first week of September.


It's a good time to share with you a few things we have learned along the way.

The increased latitude of the Dragon isn't just in the bottom. The increase is also at the top.

So you get the same 16+ stops of latitude at 200 asa as you do at 2000 with the Dragon. No latitude penalty when you lower ASA. Which means when you are shooting outside, less ND filters. Less IR issues, better images.

Because the Dragon also has lower bottom end noise than the MX, You can still push the camera to where you want it.. and you will still get cleaner images than you did on Epic MX at any comparable ASA.

The Dragon also wants to be warmer than not ( go figure ) . Good thing, as the Epic itself doesn't have a problem generating heat. A match made in heaven.

The Dragon Firmware will automatically bring the sensor temp up... which can mean a lower fan speed (depending on your circumstances).

Dragon Firmware is actually ahead of the Epic MX firmware.. rock solid. Since we have had so much time with the Dragon... it is probably the most tested build we have ever had.

Graeme has also had the time to really dig deep into the color science. He will say he is never done.. but there are alot of color improvements he has made that are worth the upgrade all by themselves.

6K is incredible. I know the rest of the world has just (finally) landed at 4K... but 6k motion and the stills pulled from Dragon are remarkable. O the stills. And talk about oversampling for 4k motion delivery. It's hard to go back.

Rocket-X is going to be your Dragon's new best friend. Seriously. It should be shipping at the time the upgrades begin.

Expect to see images start trickling out over the next few weeks.

It's time to finally let the Dragon out of the cage.

Andy White
07-09-2013, 02:53 AM
Few weeks... so we're really getting close now.

Patrick O'Sullivan
07-09-2013, 02:54 AM
Nice.

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 02:54 AM
Few weeks... so we're really getting close now.

Customer upgrades begin first week of September.

Waleed Al Shehhi
07-09-2013, 02:55 AM
So Good .... same apply to Scarlet - Dragon?

Jordi Figueras
07-09-2013, 02:55 AM
Hehehe at last!!!!

Victor MOREIRA
07-09-2013, 02:56 AM
Amen.

Brodie Gwilliam
07-09-2013, 02:56 AM
awesome

Jarek Zabczynski
07-09-2013, 02:58 AM
And I just upgraded to Epic. Let's see if I can pull in some bigger jobs so I can go 6k. Feels crazy to even type that...but I don't care!!! :devil:

Hans Magnus Kvåle
07-09-2013, 02:59 AM
Great news! Really looking forward to this upgrade and working some more with stills acquisition :-)

KETCH ROSSi
07-09-2013, 02:59 AM
GREAT!!

Brandon J.F.
07-09-2013, 03:00 AM
Will Scarlet upgrades be in September too?

Phil Holland
07-09-2013, 03:01 AM
So you get the same 16+ stops of latitude at 200 asa as you do at 2000 with the Dragon. No latitude penalty when you lower ASA. Which means when you are shooting outside, less ND filters. Less IR issues, better images.

Fascinating. After working with Mysterium-X for some time I sort of stopped visualizing things in terms of ISO and ASA for some reason and focused more on captured dynamic range and where I would like to place my targeted midtones. Which is why I never really loved the ISO 320/800 debates over the last couple years. There was a ceiling and a floor and room in the middle. Now it sounds like there's a lot more room.

That's a bit over 3 stops of room between 200 and 2000 ASA. I like that.

Robert Ruffo New
07-09-2013, 03:05 AM
So if 200ASA is 16 stops, and 1000 ASA is 16 stops, that means in total it's more than 16 stops (if, say, I do a composite of may ISOs in one image using power windows, that composite woudl contain more than 16 stops cleanly displayed)? Or it means that ISO is not really fully RAW anymore?

Nils Ruinet
07-09-2013, 03:05 AM
Awesome :-)

KETCH ROSSi
07-09-2013, 03:06 AM
BTW... I'll be loving shooting 6k for 4k finish, but after seeing how good the prints come out of the 5k 14megapixels sensor... I simply can't wait to Print those 6'+ Color prints out of 6k 20megapixels sensor!!


I guess Dragon tucked a while, and so did I, so it might be that we'll be shooting my first Feature on Dragon after all... What a fantastic NEWS... ;)

Rob Castiglione
07-09-2013, 03:07 AM
"And I just upgraded to Epic. Let's see if I can pull in some bigger jobs so I can go 6k. Feels crazy to even type that...but I don't care!!! "

That's the spirit. I don't care either. I am getting one.

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 03:09 AM
Fascinating. After working with Mysterium-X for some time I sort of stopped visualizing things in terms of ISO and ASA for some reason and focused more on captured dynamic range and where I would like to place my targeted midtones. Which is why I never really loved the ISO 320/800 debates over the last couple years. There was a ceiling and a floor and room in the middle. Now it sounds like there's a lot more room.

That's a bit over 3 stops of room between 200 and 2000 ASA. I like that.

Exactly. Ive been shooting with the Dragon for awhile now.. and i've noticed I am much less concerned where that number is. Push it when I need to, pull it when the sun comes out. Much more freedom on hitting the right stop on the lens.

O.. and Scarlet Dragon upgrades should start shipping near the end of September.

Carey Lee Coffey
07-09-2013, 03:10 AM
Hot.

KETCH ROSSi
07-09-2013, 03:10 AM
Exactly. Ive been shooting with the Dragon for awhile now.. and i've noticed I am much less concerned where that number is. Push it when I need to, pull it when the sun comes out. Much more freedom on hitting the right stop on the lens.

O.. and Scarlet Dragon upgrades should start shipping near the end of September.


And that will serve extremely well in a lot of situations!

dino g
07-09-2013, 03:12 AM
cant wait to get it in my hands and the hands of my clients...

thank you for all your hard work.

Sergio Perez
07-09-2013, 03:12 AM
Is done.

Dragon will likely win the award for the most suitable name ever given to a product. Its been quite the beast to tame, with quite a few fires started along the way.

Dragon ( the sensor ) was actually done before NAB... when you all saw cameras being put together. Sorting out the existing camera infrastructure so the sensor and the ASIC could be an upgrade has been the consuming part.

But we are there. Final parts are now being sent off to manufacturing and customer upgrades will begin the first week of September.


It's a good time to share with you a few things we have learned along the way.


The increased latitude of the Dragon isn't just in the bottom. The increase is also at the top.

So you get the same 16+ stops of latitude at 200 asa as you do at 2000 with the Dragon. No latitude penalty when you lower ASA. Which means when you are shooting outside, less ND filters. Less IR issues, better images.

Because the Dragon also has lower bottom end noise than the MX, You can still push the camera to where you want it.. and you will still get cleaner images than you did on Epic MX at any comparable ASA.

The Dragon also wants to be warmer than not ( go figure ) . Good thing, as the Epic itself doesn't have a problem generating heat. A match made in heaven.

The Dragon Firmware will automatically bring the sensor temp up... which can mean a lower fan speed (depending on your circumstances).

Dragon Firmware is actually ahead of the Epic MX firmware.. rock solid. Since we have had so much time with the Dragon... it is probably the most tested build we have ever had.

Graeme has also had the time to really dig deep into the color science. He will say he is never done.. but there are alot of color improvements he has made that are worth the upgrade all by themselves.

6K is incredible. I know the rest of the world has just (finally) landed at 4K... but 6k motion and the stills pulled from Dragon are remarkable. O the stills. And talk about oversampling for 4k motion delivery. It's hard to go back.

Rocket-X is going to be your Dragon's new best friend. Seriously. It should be shipping at the time the upgrades begin.

Expect to see images start trickling out over the next few weeks.

It's time to finally let the Dragon out of the cage.

Jarred, I know this is one of those questions, but if i order the Dragon now, do you think it will be ready for the first week of November? 60th Macau Grand Prix starts 5th of November (practice)...

Brandon J.F.
07-09-2013, 03:15 AM
O.. and Scarlet Dragon upgrades should start shipping near the end of September.

Awesome!

How well does MX and Dragon footage cut together?

Kaku Ito
07-09-2013, 03:16 AM
Sergio,

If not, I will fly over with mine.

Phil Holland
07-09-2013, 03:16 AM
Exactly. Ive been shooting with the Dragon for awhile now.. and i've noticed I am much less concerned where that number is. Push it when I need to, pull it when the sun comes out. Much more freedom on hitting the right stop on the lens.

Whelp, I'd say that's another plus on the board for just how REDCODE works during capture and in post. That's going to be some meaty material. For color grading nuts like me, I'm pretty damn excited about that range and the new color science.

Which really makes me think about "Alchemy" in REDCINE-X Pro at the moment.

Many a thought. Can't wait to test Dragon out.

(p.s. my birthday is on the 23rd! hint hint)

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 03:18 AM
Jarred, I know this is one of those questions, but if i order the Dragon now, do you think it will be ready for the first week of November? 60th Macau Grand Prix starts 5th of November (practice)...

Hard to say.. it all depends on how fast people send in their cameras, etc.

Sergio Perez
07-09-2013, 03:19 AM
Sergio,

If not, I will fly over with mine.

Thanks Kaku. Huge hit on my budget!

Sergio Perez
07-09-2013, 03:19 AM
Hard to say.. it all depends on how fast people send in their cameras, etc.

Thanks Jarred. Understood!

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 03:22 AM
Awesome!

How well does MX and Dragon footage cut together?

Great.. specially if you shoot both at the same resolution, a moderate ASA and a scene that has contrast that is contained inside the MX's latitude. You will notice a difference in noise when you really push both of them though.

John Marchant
07-09-2013, 03:26 AM
Great news :)

Dragon Mono still a little speck on your radar?

luigivaltulini
07-09-2013, 03:26 AM
AMEN ..

Begin the revolution REDUSER;)

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 03:27 AM
Great news :)

Dragon Mono still a little speck on your radar?

Absolutely....

Adam Eden
07-09-2013, 03:35 AM
Can we please have at least a side by side photo taken from the Dragon and compared to the Epic of a human face in low light so we can see the difference sometime soon?

Steve Sherrick
07-09-2013, 03:44 AM
Jarred, congratulations on reaching this milestone. The spirit at RED from the very beginning has been to arm the masses with camera technology that exceeds the status quo at relatively affordable prices. Some have termed this disruptive, and it certainly has been. It has completely changed how the high end camera companies do business. My hope with Dragon is that RED achieves a new level of respectability throughout the industry so that RED cameras are chosen for their ability to achieve the vision of a project rather than being based on some other less than relevant means. The camera specs are impressive. The price point is very reasonable. If the images deliver, which it sounds like they will based on how much care has gone into getting this ready, then I believe we are at a point in RED's history where the industry needs to welcome this camera with open arms and let it compete on it's own merits. Many of you know what I am referring to by these statements.

As a community, the greatest support and endorsement you can give to RED is to be extremely professional with your posts here on REDUSER and other forums. I like to point to the posts made by guys like Phil Holland that present very thoughtful, well illustrated examples of the topics he discusses. To me, those threads are gold and if I was an outsider looking in I'd be impressed by that. For those who are owner/operators or DPs/directors who like shooting RED, taking the level of professionalism up a notch will greatly help your cause out in the market. Building the brand on it's merits will do wonders in advancing it's market share.

I am anxious to see Dragon in action and I look forward to seeing fellow Redusers post their tests and first projects shot with the new sensor.

Adam Howden
07-09-2013, 03:45 AM
Great news Jarred. Thanks for the timeline re potential delivery. Gives me a chance to manage my cash flow a little :-)

Matteo Passigato
07-09-2013, 03:55 AM
Awesome Jarred! and thanks to the whole RED Team!

Nils Ruinet
07-09-2013, 03:55 AM
Same latitude at 200 or 2000 ASA is a huge improvement ! Having to shoot outside in bright daylight at ISO 2000 would have been an ND nightmare ;)
How low can we go ? 200, or even lower ?

Danai Chutinaton
07-09-2013, 03:55 AM
Exciting!!! Looking forward to seeing footage :)

Sam Taylor
07-09-2013, 04:05 AM
Spot on!



Jarred, congratulations on reaching this milestone. The spirit at RED from the very beginning has been to arm the masses with camera technology that exceeds the status quo at relatively affordable prices. Some have termed this disruptive, and it certainly has been. It has completely changed how the high end camera companies do business. My hope with Dragon is that RED achieves a new level of respectability throughout the industry so that RED cameras are chosen for their ability to achieve the vision of a project rather than being based on some other less than relevant means. The camera specs are impressive. The price point is very reasonable. If the images deliver, which it sounds like they will based on how much care has gone into getting this ready, then I believe we are at a point in RED's history where the industry needs to welcome this camera with open arms and let it compete on it's own merits. Many of you know what I am referring to by these statements.

As a community, the greatest support and endorsement you can give to RED is to be extremely professional with your posts here on REDUSER and other forums. I like to point to the posts made by guys like Phil Holland that present very thoughtful, well illustrated examples of the topics he discusses. To me, those threads are gold and if I was an outsider looking in I'd be impressed by that. For those who are owner/operators or DPs/directors who like shooting RED, taking the level of professionalism up a notch will greatly help your cause out in the market. Building the brand on it's merits will do wonders in advancing it's market share.

I am anxious to see Dragon in action and I look forward to seeing fellow Redusers post their tests and first projects shot with the new sensor.

Paul Russell
07-09-2013, 04:06 AM
I have a credit card especially empty just for this purpose :-)

Kwan Khan
07-09-2013, 04:06 AM
Nice

Elsie N
07-09-2013, 04:43 AM
...

O.. and Scarlet Dragon upgrades should start shipping near the end of September.

Jarred, this implies you will have been through the upgrades for Epic M and Epic X in a month's time. Are these in fact your expectations? Have you got the upgrade process down to that fine a point?

Jesper Sichlau
07-09-2013, 04:58 AM
Exciting!

Patrick Tresch
07-09-2013, 05:00 AM
So you get the same 16+ stops of latitude at 200 asa as you do at 2000 with the Dragon. No latitude penalty when you lower ASA.

Hello Jarred,

As I understand, you say that there allways will be 16+ stops of latitude but if you take your exposure :

@ 200 you'll have highlight clipping at (say) 4 stops?
@ 2000 you'll have highlight clipping at (say) 7 1/3 stops?

There is so much of latitude that highlight clipping is much less a concern and therefore we can lower iso (we used to do it contrary with the MX shooting at 800 or 1000 outside to keep the highlights).

Is it right?


So the DoP can make an error of 2-3 stops without having a big trouble... I think I'm going to resing ;-)


Pat

Sanjin Jukic
07-09-2013, 05:02 AM
Great news!!!


Let's wait for the first test images...!!!!!!!!!!!

Hussain Neissi
07-09-2013, 05:08 AM
Awesome

Ben Bailey
07-09-2013, 05:10 AM
So if the Dragon sensor likes to be warm, does that mean the minimum operating temperature is higher than the Epic-X? Will the Dragon still be able to perform in Arctic or Alaskan shoots?

Patrick Tresch
07-09-2013, 05:13 AM
So if the Dragon sensor likes to be warm, does that mean the minimum operating temperature is higher than the Epic-X? Will the Dragon still be able to perform in Arctic or Alaskan shoots?

It's easy to cover the heat sink with a towel to get it hot. Now I wonder how the electronic will hold higher temp in long term as it was engeneered for a lower temp.

Pat

david cheung
07-09-2013, 05:16 AM
Hot no problem I usually use my EPic inside an UW housing. I can't wait to see what the Dragon does for UW footage with the extra DR

Brian Merlen
07-09-2013, 05:24 AM
Will you guys ever sell the Scarlet Dragon as a new camera, or is it upgrade only for existing Scarlet owners? I was trying to figure out what price point it might be if ever offered new? Or perhaps you never intend to offer it new at all and that is why its not on the site? Some closure on this would be really sweet! Cuz I might want to upgrade to Epic and still buy a Scarlet Dragon, but its hard to know which path to go for without knowing what buying it new is price wise? Thanks!!!

Kevin Gansemans
07-09-2013, 05:27 AM
Yeah! That's perfect timing... I'll be able to test this baby until the limit with indoor events and low light circumstances... BRING IT ON!!

Robert Blom
07-09-2013, 05:32 AM
Great!!!
Two Epic-M Dragon this fall. Our clients will be as happy as I :biggrin:

Lauri Kettunen
07-09-2013, 05:44 AM
The Dragon also wants to be warmer than not ( go figure ) . Good thing, as the Epic itself doesn't have a problem generating heat. A match made in heaven.

The Dragon Firmware will automatically bring the sensor temp up... which can mean a lower fan speed (depending on your circumstances).


Thanks a lot for the update. My intention is not at all to ask a nasty question, but just to collect information: Does this affect shooting in extremely cold, say close to -40C/-40F? The reason to ask is, when shooting with Epic and it gets down to -25C to -30C / -13F to -22F, typically the fan does not run at all.

What ever is the case, not a problem, but instead an issue of being equipped properly.

Antonio Forjaz
07-09-2013, 05:54 AM
man this has made my day...THANK you Jarred

Eduardo Ruiz
07-09-2013, 05:54 AM
I am also interested in buying new bodies (Epic Dragon and Scarlet Dragon) instead of upgrading.



Will you guys ever sell the Scarlet Dragon as a new camera, or is it upgrade only for existing Scarlet owners? I was trying to figure out what price point it might be if ever offered new? Or perhaps you never intend to offer it new at all and that is why its not on the site? Some closure on this would be really sweet! Cuz I might want to upgrade to Epic and still buy a Scarlet Dragon, but its hard to know which path to go for without knowing what buying it new is price wise? Thanks!!!

Sven Seynaeve
07-09-2013, 05:55 AM
more lattitude and less nd's bring it on

Brian Shephard
07-09-2013, 05:59 AM
Fantastic news! Can't wait to get the upgrade..
Congratulations RED team!

Matt Uhry
07-09-2013, 06:05 AM
Thanks for the update Jarred, happy about the wide ISO range, I'm really looking forward to testing it.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Jan Reiff
07-09-2013, 06:09 AM
Can Europeans or Germans send camera in to Berlin or London to avoid the sh**** custom stuff ?

Matthew Gellert
07-09-2013, 06:12 AM
I am also interested in buying new bodies (Epic Dragon and Scarlet Dragon) instead of upgrading.

+1. When will Epic Dragon bodies be available for purchase?

Peter Proniewicz-Brooks
07-09-2013, 06:24 AM
Will you guys ever sell the Scarlet Dragon as a new camera, or is it upgrade only for existing Scarlet owners? I was trying to figure out what price point it might be if ever offered new? Or perhaps you never intend to offer it new at all and that is why its not on the site? Some closure on this would be really sweet! Cuz I might want to upgrade to Epic and still buy a Scarlet Dragon, but its hard to know which path to go for without knowing what buying it new is price wise? Thanks!!!

Not 100% but fairly sure that the Scarlet-D is an upgrade only affair.

Brant Hadfield
07-09-2013, 06:28 AM
Jarred how would you characterize the improvements in color generated by the Dragon? As well as the new OLPF? Smooth, subtle, edgy?

Michael Patterson
07-09-2013, 06:29 AM
This may be a dumb question, so I apologize. With the new color science, does that mean that it will be something like redgamma dragon 1 or something? Will we still be able to use red gamma 3? I'm just wondering if adobe will be able to implement the new color fast enough into premiere. If there isn't an older gamma curve available, we would have to use redcinex to export all of the files and not be able to use the premeire raw workflow then , correct? I'm just trying to get ready for any workflow work arounds for me since I think I'm pretty high on the scarlet dragon list. If upgrades actually do happen in the end of sept, that couldn't be more perfect timing for me. Usually I'm not a lucky dude. Thanks for everyone's work on this. It's pretty exciting.

Mark L. Pederson
07-09-2013, 06:59 AM
It's time to finally let the Dragon out of the cage.

Huge congrats to everyone at RED!

If it was easy ... someone would have already done it :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb2zIR2rvRQ

Tim Morten
07-09-2013, 07:09 AM
re: the references to changing ASA - Does this mean ISO is no longer meta-data? ie - are we now actually adjusting the sensor's light sensitivity / changing how the image is exposed? My guess is yes based on the description, but just wanted to make sure I understood correctly.

Andy Roberts
07-09-2013, 07:19 AM
re: the references to changing ASA - Does this mean ISO is no longer meta-data? ie - are we now actually adjusting the sensor's light sensitivity / changing how the image is exposed? My guess is yes based on the description, but just wanted to make sure I understood correctly.

No. That is just the nature and power of RAW. The ISO is not baked in. It is still just metadata. Before, Red recommended shooting at 800. What I'm gathering is that there is no longer a recommendation. Feel free to work between 200 and 2000, depending on environmental and artistic requirements.

KETCH ROSSi
07-09-2013, 07:38 AM
... It's time to finally let the Dragon out of the cage.


BTW Jarred, I think you mean, let it out of the "CAVE" the same one were you all have been in it together for awhile... Hence the small of charcoal on you guys... ;)

Tony Harris
07-09-2013, 07:40 AM
That's great news.. any films lined up to shoot with the Dragon? Keep up the great work RED because you have made a shift in the world and everyone is trying to follow you now. Red is making the film standards now? WOW!!!!

Dr. Sassi
07-09-2013, 07:47 AM
Congratulations!

Will the trade-in option continue for a while?

Besides the current trade in, may I suggest to keep the trade-in available for Epics/Scarlets under warranty? ;o)

Brad Grimm
07-09-2013, 07:48 AM
Great Job guys!!! Very exciting, and right in time for my Birthday! :)

Tyrel Stumpff
07-09-2013, 07:52 AM
When will you be able to buy one outright from the Red store?

Justin Kirchhoff
07-09-2013, 07:54 AM
HELL YEAH! BRING IT ON!

Kemalettin Sert
07-09-2013, 08:00 AM
i wanna see it.....

Tom Lowe
07-09-2013, 08:02 AM
YES. :cheers2::cheers2::cheers2:

Curran Giddens
07-09-2013, 08:03 AM
Bring it!

paul schefz
07-09-2013, 08:23 AM
16 stops DR at 200 all the way to 2000 is a dream....and it totally blows my mind....and the laws of logic? But what do I care....can't wait to see some examples....and thanks for getting us the heads up about approximate shipping time.....helps to get the ducks in a row....

Brian Merlen
07-09-2013, 08:35 AM
I'm naming my Dragon camera "Puff the Magic"...

Sean Cruser
07-09-2013, 08:40 AM
lovely. i was getting depressed not knowing anything. seriously cannot wait.

Meryem Ersoz
07-09-2013, 08:41 AM
Dragon Firmware is actually ahead of the Epic MX firmware.. rock solid. Since we have had so much time with the Dragon... it is probably the most tested build we have ever had.




Simply awesome.

Time to start digging around the sofa for spare change.

Will the old Rockets still debayer Dragon footage, but just at slower speeds?

Isaac Marchionna
07-09-2013, 08:54 AM
Suhweeeet!

Kyle Dones
07-09-2013, 08:57 AM
This is good to hear! I now wonder what the turn around time will be for upgrading

Andrew Benz
07-09-2013, 09:05 AM
Just in time to upgrade after I get back from Brazil.... And I need to add another Epic. How soon can we purchase Dragon M's?

Mike McEntire
07-09-2013, 09:12 AM
Sounds so great. All of it. Thanks for the update!

Jose Alejandro Acosta
07-09-2013, 09:12 AM
Glad to hear all the good news! Saving up for the Motion Mount and Dragon upgrade this fall. Although maybe a new Dragon camera is a smarter move than an upgrade (avoiding down-time).

Russ Fill
07-09-2013, 09:16 AM
Wow, Im ready and willing to take on the Dragon, Congrats RED, Cant wait...

Paul Ellington
07-09-2013, 09:18 AM
Amazing -- thanks guys.

Eric Haase
07-09-2013, 09:20 AM
Because the Dragon also has lower bottom end noise than the MX, You can still push the camera to where you want it.. and you will still get cleaner images than you did on Epic MX at any comparable ASA.
.

Jarred, in the past you have said noise-wise Dragon 2000 is about the same as MX 800. Is this still the case?

CJ Roy
07-09-2013, 09:36 AM
Awesome, can't wait to shoot some 6K aerials!

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 10:03 AM
Thanks a lot for the update. My intention is not at all to ask a nasty question, but just to collect information: Does this affect shooting in extremely cold, say close to -40C/-40F? The reason to ask is, when shooting with Epic and it gets down to -25C to -30C / -13F to -22F, typically the fan does not run at all.

What ever is the case, not a problem, but instead an issue of being equipped properly.

Don't worry we covered that. The Dragon sensor board actually has a small heater on it.. This not only helps in cold situations, but gets the sensor up to temperature from rest quicker, and is much better at keeping that temperature stable in different environments.

SUNILPREM
07-09-2013, 10:19 AM
Great News .Congratulations Red Team..............

Shawn Bannon
07-09-2013, 10:20 AM
Wow! A heater on the sensor, that is really awesome. And of course I can't wait to see some footage.

Christopher Probst
07-09-2013, 10:25 AM
Dragon you say? Oh yea, I'm ready to BURN this muthafuckin' place down!

Nick Fury
07-09-2013, 10:28 AM
Don't worry we covered that. The Dragon sensor board actually has a small heater on it.. This not only helps in cold situations, but gets the sensor up to temperature from rest quicker, and is much better at keeping that temperature stable in different environments.

Hi Jarred,

Is there a sensor temp-monitor system/warning and/or user selectable record/enable vs. sensor temp value,etc...?

Thank you very much

Fury

John Marchant
07-09-2013, 10:33 AM
How's the upgrade going to go from a practical perspective - do we just wait one by one to receive the email that says

'You have one or more cameras that are eligible to be made frickin' awesome...'?

or will it be a collective 'you can send it when you like, but we'll process them in priority order' kind of deal? Small matters, but thats all there's left to obsess over now til the thing lands in my lap ;)

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 10:35 AM
Dragon you say? Oh yea, I'm ready to BURN this muthafuckin' place down!

That sounds like a challenge. Stay by your phone.

heh heh heh..

Stefano Spiti
07-09-2013, 10:43 AM
WELCOME TO ITALY dear RED DRAGON, my RED EPIC #3001 will be your new home
.......

Andrew Huse
07-09-2013, 10:45 AM
Well I was saving up money for a downpayment on a house, but it looks like I have to buy Dragon instead

Lauri Kettunen
07-09-2013, 10:55 AM
Don't worry we covered that. The Dragon sensor board actually has a small heater on it.. This not only helps in cold situations, but gets the sensor up to temperature from rest quicker, and is much better at keeping that temperature stable in different environments.

You guys are beyond amazing! Highly admire such passion to take care of every single detail.

Sebastian Wiegärtner
07-09-2013, 10:57 AM
great news!! shooting a feature film mid september for german televison. 21 days shoot. probably on epic, would be great to upgrade my epic before, but don't know if the camera comes back in time.

Matt Ryan
07-09-2013, 11:02 AM
Jarred, Does that mean multiple ISO's could be used for HDRx instead of shutter speed? That would be incredible if we could have an X track capturing at 200ISO and A track capturing at 2000ISO with the same shutter speed. That would mean good bye to motion artifacts.

Chris McKechnie
07-09-2013, 11:03 AM
It's going to be so worth the wait. Dragon will breath fire down upon all of its competition.

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 11:05 AM
Wow! A heater on the sensor, that is really awesome. And of course I can't wait to see some footage.

Now you can start to understand why it took so long :)

paulherrin
07-09-2013, 11:10 AM
Jarred, Does that mean multiple ISO's could be used for HDRx instead of shutter speed? That would be incredible if we could have an X track capturing at 200ISO and A track capturing at 2000ISO with the same shutter speed. That would mean good bye to motion artifacts.

ISO is already metadata...

felipe meneghel
07-09-2013, 11:10 AM
Cool! Thanks!

Brian Merlen
07-09-2013, 11:10 AM
Now you can start to understand why it took so long :)


but does the heater breathe fire?:emote_happyhappy:

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 11:11 AM
Hi Jarred,

Is there a sensor temp-monitor system/warning and/or user selectable record/enable vs. sensor temp value,etc...?

Thank you very much

Fury

Yup, Dragon Firmware will target that temp on adaptive mode, and the monitor is in the bottom middle, it shows sensor and camera temps and they change colors when its outside the best range.

http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1373433760.jpg

Matt Ryan
07-09-2013, 11:12 AM
ISO is already metadata...

obviously, but if there was a way to capture the DR and captured exposure of the lower ISO in a separate track they could be combined in post to give 19 stops of DR...

I've been shooting RED for years, I'm not an idiot...

Nick Fury
07-09-2013, 11:16 AM
Yup, Dragon Firmware will target that temp on adaptive mode, and the monitor is in the bottom middle, it shows sensor and camera temps and they change colors when its outside the best range.


http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1373433760.jpg


Nawwhice! Now for the footage...

thank you very much

Fury

Dr. Sassi
07-09-2013, 11:18 AM
A fan and a heater, this will allow for a much more stable sensor temperature than before -- which means less need for new black-shadings?

Marcos Montenegro
07-09-2013, 11:18 AM
Oh Jarred, why did you just do that? You are a tease, man!


Yup, Dragon Firmware will target that temp on adaptive mode, and the monitor is in the bottom middle, it shows sensor and camera temps and they change colors when its outside the best range.

http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1373433760.jpg

Brook Willard
07-09-2013, 11:20 AM
Yup, Dragon Firmware will target that temp on adaptive mode, and the monitor is in the bottom middle, it shows sensor and camera temps and they change colors when its outside the best range.

http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1373433760.jpg

Let's talk about what's really important here: can we get a nice, high-resolution picture of the guys?

Justin Kirchhoff
07-09-2013, 11:20 AM
16+ stops and the non-extinct HDRx will give us plenty to work with. I can't think of an ugly image that someone would shoot (unless of course the exposure is not measured correctly). I'd love to do some real world tests of over and under exposure with controlled lighting conditions, just to see how much work it would be to bring a shot back from the "dead"...

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 12:10 PM
16+ stops and the non-extinct HDRx will give us plenty to work with. I can't think of an ugly image that someone would shoot ..

o trust me I've shot quite a few ugly images... it just wasn't the camera's fault :)

Dmitry Burenok
07-09-2013, 12:19 PM
How's power consumption doing on dragonized EPIC? I guess that tiny redvolt in side handle is just "internal clock battery" with a new sensor :)))

Paulo Emílio
07-09-2013, 12:32 PM
Images, pics, fooootage, milk girls.....( ouuu milk girls at 6k will be so nice)

Ted Parkes
07-09-2013, 12:35 PM
Great timing .. should line up with a new series I start shooting later in the fall. I thought I was going to have to drag a 5D along for the low light situations. This is perfect.

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 12:38 PM
How's power consumption doing on dragonized EPIC? I guess that tiny redvolt in side handle is just "internal clock battery" with a new sensor :)))

Remarkably even with all the extra horsepower, Dragon is running at about 56 watts in 6K @24fps loaded up vs. the Epic MX running at 61 watts loaded up @5k 24fps. So almost a 10% reduction in power.

Bruce Allen
07-09-2013, 12:44 PM
Graeme has also had the time to really dig deep into the color science. He will say he is never done.. but there are alot of color improvements he has made that are worth the upgrade all by themselves.

Thank heavens. Look forward to seeing it.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Mike P.
07-09-2013, 12:50 PM
Will MX continue to evolve some or is Dragon pretty much the focus? For example, now that everything is ready to go, do you know if the new colour science implementation will improve MX images at all, or will it be a strictly Dragon affair? Also, I was still kind of clinging to the possibility of 4480x1920 and that pseudo-HDRx 4k mode on Scarlet-X; should I stop now (presumably that effort would be focused on continued Dragon development rather than a sensor that's as mature as MX)?

David Battistella
07-09-2013, 12:52 PM
I am curious about file Sizes compared to 5k. Does the dragon pixel size make the file sizes smaller? Can you shoot higher compression ratios with cleaner results?

david

Joachim Hoge
07-09-2013, 12:53 PM
It sounds very impressive. Can't wait to get a new camera all over again.
Is the camera icon in the bottom left corner new, or have I been away from our Epic too long?

James Lee
07-09-2013, 01:03 PM
Which one go first? New order Dragon M first or update the old customers with Epic first?

Phil Holland
07-09-2013, 01:04 PM
Remarkably even with all the extra horsepower, Dragon is running at about 56 watts in 6K @24fps loaded up vs. the Epic MX running at 61 watts loaded up @5k 24fps. So almost a 10% reduction in power.

That's great news.

Also, the new GUI design is slick. Love where playback is now!

Mark van Coller
07-09-2013, 01:04 PM
Does the Dragon firmware have all the features that have recently been added to the Epic like Pre Record and customizable on screen displays. Can't wait to see some footage.
Great job team RED

paul schefz
07-09-2013, 01:08 PM
Remarkably even with all the extra horsepower, Dragon is running at about 56 watts in 6K @24fps loaded up vs. the Epic MX running at 61 watts loaded up @5k 24fps. So almost a 10% reduction in power.

getting better by the minute! 10% is huge for redvolts...

still trying to wrap my head around 16 stops DR anywhere from 200 to 2000 iso.....just looking at this from an old-time film standpoint this reads as something like: set the camera at 500 or 640 and you really almost can't clip shadows or highlights with a histogram that looks/reads just right....if there was such a thing as a histogram with film, i guess it was correct exposure back then....
either way: to me this sounds like shooting a black stallion on the beach backlit by the sun and getting detail in the coat while keeping the sun from clipping is finally doable:) too bad i will have to do all that work to get rid of all the flies that will show up with 6k resolution....

Eric Z
07-09-2013, 01:15 PM
1. 6K to 4K Down-ressing for de-bayering and extra sharpness.
2. 6K stills
3. Extra latitude
4. More room for Shake Reduction when exporting to 4K
5. A sensor that actually benefits from extra heat (go figure)
6. Lets good glass shine - extra sharpness (much like Nikon D800)
7. 16 Stops from ISO200 to ISO2000. Bloody marvelous!

YEP! Sounds like a huge leap in sensor technology.
Congrats RED team!!!

Now where's that bloody-ruddy footage?? :drool:

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 01:15 PM
I am curious about file Sizes compared to 5k. Does the dragon pixel size make the file sizes smaller? Can you shoot higher compression ratios with cleaner results?

david

Smaller pixel size does not mean smaller file size, a pixel is a pixel and 6000 pixels take up the same amount of space no matter how big or small they are.

For Reference, a Dragon 6K single R3D @ RC 5:1 is about 6.4mb. A 5K single frame R3D @ RC 5:1 is about 4.5mb.

Vincent Accardi
07-09-2013, 01:21 PM
This all sounds great, thank you for the DRAGON update!


Jarred, quick question, how does the RED Rocket handle the 6k files.....speed wise per minute of footage? Thanks!

Mark L. Pederson
07-09-2013, 01:22 PM
I'm curious about aspect ratios. Is/will there a 1.78 6K format available? I think the specs on website list 2:1 and 2.4:1 - just curious.

Curran Giddens
07-09-2013, 01:27 PM
Which one go first? New order Dragon M first or update the old customers with Epic first?

They are most likely only going by when you ordered Dragon. Epic-M and early Red One adopters (with an Epic-X) were the first ones allowed to order. This was a day or two before customers were allowed to order brand new.

Blair S. Paulsen
07-09-2013, 01:30 PM
To follow on to Mark's question, are we deep enough into the dev that we could get actual pixel counts for all the supported modes? Any chance of a 1:1.33 6K ANA option?

I'll understand if these inquiries are jumping the gun, but my curiosity is hard to tamp down ;-)

Cheers - #19

Phil Holland
07-09-2013, 01:31 PM
I'm curious about aspect ratios. Is/will there a 1.78 6K format available? I think the specs on website list 2:1 and 2.4:1 - just curious.

If nothing has changed the Dragon sensor is a 1.94:1 aspect ratio at 6K Full. There was/will be a 6K 2:1, 6K HD, 6K ANA, and 6K WS defaults. However, it was mentioned that you would be able to "define or map" your own custom resolutions as well.

Mark L. Pederson
07-09-2013, 01:34 PM
There was/will be a 6K HD, 6K ANA, and 6K WS defaults.

Source? I'd love to get that confirmed by one of the big guys :)

Phil Holland
07-09-2013, 01:41 PM
Source? I'd love to get that confirmed by one of the big guys :)

Sourced:

First info: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?83976-Sensors&p=1051255&viewfull=1#post1051255

Second info (sensor size): http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon&p=986881&viewfull=1#post986881

Lots of info: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?92999-Red-Dragon-Info-and-Data-Sheets&p=1137071&viewfull=1#post1137071

jake blackstone
07-09-2013, 01:44 PM
Smaller pixel size does not mean smaller file size, a pixel is a pixel and 6000 pixels take up the same amount of space no matter how big or small they are.

For Reference, a Dragon 6K single R3D @ RC 5:1 is about 6.4mb. A 5K single frame R3D @ RC 5:1 is about 4.5mb.


Yes, that understandable. But as was mentioned earlier ( I think by Jim), because of the Dragon's reduced noise level, it may be possible to run it with higher compression ratios, than with Epic without compromising the quality, resulting in smaller size files.

Blair S. Paulsen
07-09-2013, 01:45 PM
If nothing has changed the Dragon sensor is a 1.94:1 aspect ratio at 6K Full. There was/will be a 6K HD, 6K ANA, and 6K WS defaults. However, it was mentioned that you would be able to "define or map" your own custom resolutions as well.

I love flexibility as much as the next guy and like the idea of defining a custom pixel count at acquisition. That said, when exporting from RCX-Pro I sincerely hope that any non-standard output format be VERY clearly marked "danger Will Robinson" or something to avoid headaches in NLE and finishing environments. I would further suggest that the camera format GUI only show formats that are supported natively by popular post tools so less technically sophisticated shooters don't create unintended issues. Asking hard cores to drill down to a custom menu when one of the 19 or more "regular" formats isn't what they seek seems like a fair proposition.

Cheers - #19

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Source? I'd love to get that confirmed by one of the big guys :)

Format options are a plenty.. there is a new matrix in the build that lets you adjust everything independently instead of scrolling through the list of 3 or 4 presets per resolution.

Blair S. Paulsen
07-09-2013, 01:52 PM
Hat's off to Phil for generating such terrific framing/format charts. Is Phil the new Brook Willard? ;-)

Cheers - #19

Justin Kirchhoff
07-09-2013, 01:52 PM
o trust me I've shot quite a few ugly images... it just wasn't the camera's fault :)


Ok, fair enough...I'm just wondering if the ugly images were the actual subject matter or a dial turned too far to the right...hehe

Phil Holland
07-09-2013, 01:55 PM
Hat's off to Phil for generating such terrific framing/format charts. Is Phil the new Brook Willard? ;-)

I'm cool, but I'm not that cool :)

David Battistella
07-09-2013, 01:56 PM
Smaller pixel size does not mean smaller file size, a pixel is a pixel and 6000 pixels take up the same amount of space no matter how big or small they are.

For Reference, a Dragon 6K single R3D @ RC 5:1 is about 6.4mb. A 5K single frame R3D @ RC 5:1 is about 4.5mb.

Thanks for that! It clears up a lot. Great to know.


David

David Battistella
07-09-2013, 01:59 PM
Yes, that understandable. But as was mentioned earlier ( I think by Jim), because of the Dragon's reduced noise level, it may be possible to run it with higher compression ratios, than with Epic without compromising the quality, resulting in smaller size files.


Thanks jake,

That is how I remembered it after you articulated it. But the i assume numbers Jarred posted are real word so we will see slightly larger file sizes, which does make sense in the r3d container.

But maybe 7:1 in 6k looks as good as 5:1 in 5k so maybe dragon is better at higher compression ratios.

David

Jeff Kilgroe
07-09-2013, 02:00 PM
I'm curious about aspect ratios. Is/will there a 1.78 6K format available? I think the specs on website list 2:1 and 2.4:1 - just curious.

+1

5760 x 3240 would be a nice number, unfortunately exceeds the currently known vertical height of the sensor. Looks like 16:9 / 1.78:1 would need to be 5616 x 3160?


EDIT>

Format options are a plenty.. there is a new matrix in the build that lets you adjust everything independently instead of scrolling through the list of 3 or 4 presets per resolution.

Nice. :)

Patrick Grossien
07-09-2013, 02:02 PM
+1

5760 x 3240 would be a nice number, unfortunately exceeds the currently known vertical height of the sensor. Looks like 16:9 / 1.78:1 would need to be 5616 x 3160?

As Jarred noted, you will be able to dial in (almost) anything you like.

EDIT: I guess I got carried away :) here's Jarred's comment :


not everything... you can't make illegal sizes that split the sensor columns in a bad way, but you will be able to get very close though then use frame guides to box it in.

David Battistella
07-09-2013, 02:04 PM
Can I ask about frame rates/resolution?

also read/reset time. Is it faster than MX Is the chance for skew pretty much gone? (Not that I have ever seen much of it normal situations)

david

Patrick Grossien
07-09-2013, 02:06 PM
David, the frame rates are defined by the horizontal lines of the image.
If you choose a smaller image in height, frame rates will increase.

David Battistella
07-09-2013, 02:08 PM
Yes. I understand that,

just wondering what it's topping out at at 6k? If its over 72fps@6k I'd be pretty pleased.
Pleased as punch in fact.
David

Phil Holland
07-09-2013, 02:09 PM
+1

5760 x 3240 would be a nice number, unfortunately exceeds the currently known vertical height of the sensor. Looks like 16:9 / 1.78:1 would need to be 5616 x 3160?


Let's wait for the official numbers, but my calculation led to 5618x3160. Either way, we're right in there.



Can I ask about frame rates/resolution?

also read/reset time. Is it faster than MX Is the chance for skew pretty much gone? (Not that I have ever seen much of it normal situations)

If you want that "global shutter effect" there will be something called the Motion Mount.

In terms of the speed of the frame read out and potential for skew during faster pans, I have no idea what the hard numbers are.

David Battistella
07-09-2013, 02:19 PM
Yes Phil,

i think it's a great idea but I am not certain i want to lose a stop after gaining a stop after gaining a stop or two (if you know what I mean) when the mx was first shown/released it had a fast read reset time and then that was dialed back a bit (if memory serves).

i think it's at 5ms with the mx chip and I am wondering if this one is slightly quicker. Im wondering if 1/2 frames on camera flashes, etc would be eliminated.

I know the motion mount will do this, but I am also curious about the raw sensor when it ships.

Blair S. Paulsen
07-09-2013, 02:31 PM
I'm not sure everyone grasps what a huge deal the motion mount could be. While Phil's reference to the "global shutter effect" is probably as close an example as most people are familiar with, from a physics standpoint its quite a bit more. As things like resolution, DR, color precision, etc improve, temporal aliasing and blur characteristic become even more prominent. Really looking forward to doing some A/B testing when it ships.

Cheers - #19

Nick Fury
07-09-2013, 02:42 PM
If nothing has changed the Dragon sensor is a 1.94:1 aspect ratio at 6K Full. There was/will be a 6K 2:1, 6K HD, 6K ANA, and 6K WS defaults. However, it was mentioned that you would be able to "define or map" your own custom resolutions as well.

Hi Phila nd Jarred,

Any favorite, proposed/available matte boxes that will allow, say 8mm at even 5K Full/6K Full?

Thank you very much

Fury

Matt Ryan
07-09-2013, 03:37 PM
Hi Phila nd Jarred,

Any favorite, proposed/available matte boxes that will allow, say 8mm at even 5K Full/6K Full?

Thank you very much

Fury

none.... matteboxes aren't made for that wide of lenses on that large of a sensor. 14mm on 5K FF is about as wide as they will go (for the BT viv). Check out the Bright Tangerine Viv mattebox:http://matthayslett.com/bright-tangerine-matte-boxes/

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 03:43 PM
As Jarred noted, you will be able to dial in anything you like.

EDIT: I guess you found it while I was typing :)

not everything... you can't make illegal sizes that split the sensor columns in a bad way, but you will be able to get very close though then use frame guides to box it in.

Andy Roberts
07-09-2013, 03:48 PM
Yes. I understand that,

just wondering what it's topping out at at 6k? If its over 72fps@6k I'd be pretty pleased.
Pleased as punch in fact.
David

I believe Jim or Jarred said 100FPS at 6K.

Jarred from here (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97869-NAB13-Dragon-Sensor-Upgrade-Program-begins&p=1181034&viewfull=1#post1181034):
"Epic Dragon 6K. 6144 x 3160 up to 100fps."

Patrick Grossien
07-09-2013, 03:49 PM
Whoops, sorry. I guess I got excited :) edited my post. Thanks for clarifying

David Battistella
07-09-2013, 04:18 PM
I believe Jim or Jarred said 100FPS at 6K.

Jarred from here (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97869-NAB13-Dragon-Sensor-Upgrade-Program-begins&p=1181034&viewfull=1#post1181034):
"Epic Dragon 6K. 6144 x 3160 up to 100fps."


Probably 100 in ws mode and slightly less in FF. great news!

Asif Limbada
07-09-2013, 04:43 PM
what about new EPIC M Dragon orders?? Will they ship immediately in September??

Eric Haase
07-09-2013, 04:53 PM
Jarred, noise-wise what is the dragon equivalent of MX ISO 800? Is it still 2000?

Jamie_Guy
07-09-2013, 06:03 PM
Fascinating. After working with Mysterium-X for some time I sort of stopped visualizing things in terms of ISO and ASA for some reason and focused more on captured dynamic range and where I would like to place my targeted midtones. Which is why I never really loved the ISO 320/800 debates over the last couple years. There was a ceiling and a floor and room in the middle. Now it sounds like there's a lot more room.

That's a bit over 3 stops of room between 200 and 2000 ASA. I like that.

Phil, we are finally getting an Epic in the next week or so. Would you mind explaining more in depth about how you do this or link to a prior post where you have? Don't want to get this thread off topic. Dragon sounds awesome. That is why we chose RED, way ahead of the curve and in another atmosphere altogether.

Ron Lagerlof
07-09-2013, 06:31 PM
Is done.

Dragon will likely win the award for the most suitable name ever given to a product. Its been quite the beast to tame, with quite a few fires started along the way.
----snip---
It's time to finally let the Dragon out of the cage.

Ok, Jarred so let's go Dragons head-to-head. Komodo Dragons, that is. I hope to have mine by November when I'll be in Komodo.

Dragon v. Dragon
Dragon does Dragon
Dragon on Dragon

I see a new ad campaign - or at least a thread... he he he.

Bring it...

Gunleik Groven
07-09-2013, 06:45 PM
Congratulations seems appropriate... ;)

Brian Merlen
07-09-2013, 07:02 PM
Strangely enough I was thinking "Dragons shot on Dragons"... I am fascinated by the creatures and wanted to go myself...


Ok, Jarred so let's go Dragons head-to-head. Komodo Dragons, that is. I hope to have mine by November when I'll be in Komodo.

Dragon v. Dragon
Dragon does Dragon
Dragon on Dragon

I see a new ad campaign - or at least a thread... he he he.

Bring it...

PatrickFaith
07-09-2013, 07:23 PM
Don't worry we covered that. The Dragon sensor board actually has a small heater on it.. This not only helps in cold situations, but gets the sensor up to temperature from rest quicker, and is much better at keeping that temperature stable in different environments.
Wow, this is some major league science going on, this sounds more like a space craft sensor from Nasa then a camera sensor (in some ways eclipsing current Nasa sensors). I love it how you guys flip the industry on it's head!

Jon Chema
07-09-2013, 07:44 PM
Amazing news. This may be a stupid question and may have already been answered some time ago... will there be a Dragon-X after the M bodies are produced?

J

Thomas Koch
07-09-2013, 07:49 PM
What is the timeframe for purchasing upgrades. with Capital cycles it would be great to be able to push this to next year.

Brian Merlen
07-09-2013, 08:03 PM
Amazing news. This may be a stupid question and may have already been answered some time ago... will there be a Dragon-X after the M bodies are produced?

J

I'm pretty sure its already priced out on Red.com...If not I def remember hearing there was one and it cost less...

Sergio Perez
07-09-2013, 08:11 PM
Jarred, just a quick question. With the old Rocket while using Dragon, do we still get similar times to encode to 4K Prores or 1080p we get with MX? I'm not asking about Playback r3d performance, I'm sure this will take a hit in 6K due to obvious reasons, just conversion/encoding performance in redcine X. I know red pushes for all raw workflow but on tight schedules on a mobile platform this is what I have been doing with the current MX with great results.

Tai Wah Lim
07-09-2013, 08:43 PM
Jarred, I know this is one of those questions, but if i order the Dragon now, do you think it will be ready for the first week of November? 60th Macau Grand Prix starts 5th of November (practice)...

Should have our Dragon in Macau by then - Lim

Daniel Pearson
07-09-2013, 09:05 PM
Ok, Jarred so let's go Dragons head-to-head. Komodo Dragons, that is. I hope to have mine by November when I'll be in Komodo.

Dragon v. Dragon
Dragon does Dragon
Dragon on Dragon

I see a new ad campaign - or at least a thread... he he he.

Bring it...

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110528182036/nintendo/en/images/f/ff/Double_Dragon_NES_NA.jpg

Dmitry Burenok
07-09-2013, 09:53 PM
Outstanding. 56 watts for 6K camera. If guys will keep doing it this way you may end up with 8K camera running on two AA :)

Nick Morrison
07-09-2013, 11:12 PM
Congrats! A "Dragon" Scarlet or Epic are in my future in 2014. Can't wait (If I'm lucky Santa leaves one under my tree).

Congrats all around. This is an "epic" achievement.

Phil Holland
07-09-2013, 11:31 PM
You guys should really be following me on instagram or twitter:

https://twitter.com/phfx
http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx/ (http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx)

http://distilleryimage6.ak.instagram.com/905714d2e91311e2b56022000a9f1354_7.jpg
(http://instagram.com/p/bkicvRE0dm/)

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 11:36 PM
Jarred, just a quick question. With the old Rocket while using Dragon, do we still get similar times to encode to 4K Prores or 1080p we get with MX? I'm not asking about Playback r3d performance, I'm sure this will take a hit in 6K due to obvious reasons, just conversion/encoding performance in redcine X. I know red pushes for all raw workflow but on tight schedules on a mobile platform this is what I have been doing with the current MX with great results.

so you mean encode from 6k to 4k prores? or 1080p? it wont be as fast as MX footage encoded to the same resolution on the older Rocket. We have some things that will help things along coming, and leverage your GPU, but you can't expect the same render times.

Of course if your shooting 5k or 4k cropped on the Dragon, and then going to 4k or 1080p, then that is a different story.

Matt Ryan
07-09-2013, 11:39 PM
You guys should really be following me on instagram or twitter:

https://twitter.com/phfx
http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx/ (http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx)

http://distilleryimage6.ak.instagram.com/905714d2e91311e2b56022000a9f1354_7.jpg
(http://instagram.com/p/bkicvRE0dm/)

Well, thank GOD it's Chris Probst shooting the first tests. It could of been someone else haha. Curious to see what he thinks.

Phil Holland
07-09-2013, 11:49 PM
6K aside, the one thing I can safely say from some tests shot when the sun was out is that I can certainly "feel" the greater captured dynamic range. And boy did that feel good.

Jarred Land
07-09-2013, 11:52 PM
6K aside, the one thing I can safely say from some tests shot when the sun was out is that I can certainly "feel" the greater captured dynamic range. And boy did that feel good.

Was great stomping around the desert with you tonight Phil.. glad to finally see you in action.

Matt Ryan
07-09-2013, 11:53 PM
Was great stomping around the desert with you tonight Phil.. glad to finally see you in action.

a bit like a mad scientist? ;) hahaha

I picture Phil wearing a lab coat.

Jed Shepherd
07-09-2013, 11:53 PM
So can we see a frame from what was shot today?

Phil Holland
07-10-2013, 12:03 AM
Was great stomping around the desert with you tonight Phil.. glad to finally see you in action.

Dude. The pleasure was mine. A nice surprise for sure. Don't think I'll forget today anytime soon!

Sergio Perez
07-10-2013, 12:03 AM
so you mean encode from 6k to 4k prores? or 1080p? it wont be as fast as MX footage encoded to the same resolution on the older Rocket. We have some things that will help things along coming, and leverage your GPU, but you can't expect the same render times.

Of course if your shooting 5k or 4k cropped on the Dragon, and then going to 4k or 1080p, then that is a different story.

Exactly. My last year workflow for these racing videos (done for the prize giving showing in the same day the event ended-quick reference https://vimeo.com/53943018) worked wonderfully with the MX, Rocket, 1080p prores 4:2:2 HQ to mix and match different format cameras we used for the event. Convert times for shots where faster than realtime on a Macbook Pro Retina with Rocket. And we kept wonderful masters in 5K (3K and 2K for the slow motion shots to use in this year's tv commercials)

Basically what you mean is that for similar results in speed with 6K I need the Rocket X, right? This is important info , thanks, Jarred. its essential I could keep a similar speed workflow. I would love to have this year's coverage in 6K but on my side workflow is really important for this "deadline". Budget wise If I am to get the Dragon and X bundle I need to wait a bit more. I will definitely upgrade but its a bit of a critical operation and I simply cannot fail, so either I find a fine reduser here to rent with rocket X or will go solo MX for this year. Damn, its the 60th anniversary. Historical moment. It might be my only chance on working on such a representative date of the event...Decisions, decisions! (If money wasn't a factor!)

Patrick Grossien
07-10-2013, 12:10 AM
You guys should really be following me on instagram or twitter:

https://twitter.com/phfx
http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx/ (http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx)

http://distilleryimage6.ak.instagram.com/905714d2e91311e2b56022000a9f1354_7.jpg
(http://instagram.com/p/bkicvRE0dm/)

Hehehe, Jarred's call didn't seem to take long to get through it seems.

You lucky sons of a dragon!

C.H.Haskell
07-10-2013, 01:56 AM
September! Superb news on all fronts, great work guys and gals.

KETCH ROSSi
07-10-2013, 02:01 AM
Great to see the Dragon in the wild!!

Don't I wish I was still in Cali now!!


But... Jarred... Didn't you said you wanted to come to Italy? Now would be a perfect time... Of course if your Beautiful wife was to accompany and a Dragon Epic was to find its way in your bag, that would be fantastic too... ;)

Rob Anderson
07-10-2013, 02:11 AM
Exactly. My last year workflow for these racing videos (done for the prize giving showing in the same day the event ended-quick reference https://vimeo.com/53943018) worked wonderfully with the MX, Rocket, 1080p prores 4:2:2 HQ to mix and match different format cameras we used for the event.

As someone that is a huge Formula racing fan (and all types of racing in general), I'm very envious of your project. Great work. Loved the highlights reel. Well done.

Rob Anderson
07-10-2013, 02:15 AM
Dude. The pleasure was mine. A nice surprise for sure. Don't think I'll forget today anytime soon!
Thanks for sharing guys. Added you on Instagram, Phil. Keep the eyecandy coming.

Jarred, any time you need a case man to help you carry a Dragon box around the desert, call me.

Nikolay Pavlov
07-10-2013, 03:03 AM
Jarred, what can you tell us about the brand new bodies of Scarlet - Dragon? Are they going to be in store at the end of September?

Christopher Probst
07-10-2013, 03:04 AM
You guys should really be following me on instagram or twitter:

https://twitter.com/phfx
http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx/ (http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx)

http://distilleryimage6.ak.instagram.com/905714d2e91311e2b56022000a9f1354_7.jpg
(http://instagram.com/p/bkicvRE0dm/)

Okay folks, I'm back and officially FRIED (pun intended)... I was shooting a "pitch" piece spec for a buddy and the location proved perfect to snare a Dragon. We shot some blazing hot desert junkyard daylight material as well as a "power-outage" no-light look night scene in the junkyard with some faint toplight ambiance and a WAAAAY subdued backlight, letting the character basically light himself and the environment with his large MagLight flashlight. All of this was shot 6K ANA mode on Jarred's Dragon.

We definitely got some stellar images at ISO 1600 and I COULD have shot at an even higher rating, but I literally ran out of scrims for the lights! We'll have to process the footage and see what comes up and what Jarred wants to reveal! Bwahaahaha... Needless to say, it was fun for all (even with a skeleton crew and minimal gear (which only behooved using the Dragon's high sensitivity even more!).

Thanks Jarred for making this come together so quickly and literally creating a Dragon Anamorphic build in 2 hours!

KETCH ROSSi
07-10-2013, 03:22 AM
Very cool Christopher, look forward to it!

Mark L. Pederson
07-10-2013, 04:10 AM
You guys should really be following me on instagram or twitter:

https://twitter.com/phfx
http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx/ (http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx)

http://distilleryimage6.ak.instagram.com/905714d2e91311e2b56022000a9f1354_7.jpg
(http://instagram.com/p/bkicvRE0dm/)

And rockin' the Redvolt XL batter plate too :)

Steve Sherrick
07-10-2013, 05:58 AM
That's a great team to do some tests with a skeleton crew in a challenging location. Look forward to the results and thoughts from Christopher and Phil.

Justin Kirchhoff
07-10-2013, 06:37 AM
I love seeing Jarred go out on location and having some real dudes shoot footage. I'm looking forward to whatever you all shot...should be fun just to look at some grabs.

Scott Auerbach
07-10-2013, 06:46 AM
Is done.
Graeme has also had the time to really dig deep into the color science. He will say he is never done.. but there are alot of color improvements he has made that are worth the upgrade all by themselves.

That's the first thing I've heard that really got my attention.

I know there's some back-and-forth on Jim's Dragon post today about MX color rendition. All I can say is that while the MX is mostly pretty neutral, there are certain parts of the spectrum that simply don't render accurately. Blues, in particular, push toward cyan and/or get excessively bright. I've always wondered whether it was a mismatch in the rolloffs of the filters on the blue- and green- sensing photosites, or what.

For me, the extra dynamic range and resolution of Dragon aren't worth the upgrade price, given my business model. But better color accuracy across the spectrum would be. I look forward to seeing results. (Ditto on getting accurate color on the 9" LCD. For example, greenscreen is closer to blue than green on my 9". It's completely useless for judging color.)

Tony Harris
07-10-2013, 08:23 AM
I know I'm late but a heater on the board???? wow! mind blowing.. who comes up with this stuff? amazing! I'm with the right company there is no need to buy from any other camera company. Question ..when I rise to the top will I be able to test future RED cameras on my films? =)

Robert Ruffo New
07-10-2013, 08:37 AM
That's the first thing I've heard that really got my attention.

I know there's some back-and-forth on Jim's Dragon post today about MX color rendition. All I can say is that while the MX is mostly pretty neutral, there are certain parts of the spectrum that simply don't render accurately. Blues, in particular, push toward cyan and/or get excessively bright. I've always wondered whether it was a mismatch in the rolloffs of the filters on the blue- and green- sensing photosites, or what.

For me, the extra dynamic range and resolution of Dragon aren't worth the upgrade price, given my business model. But better color accuracy across the spectrum would be. I look forward to seeing results. (Ditto on getting accurate color on the 9" LCD. For example, greenscreen is closer to blue than green on my 9". It's completely useless for judging color.)

+10 - rare is the time when we have no ND on the camera, or at least scrims/ND gels on the lights - as most lighting instruments are designed around the assumption of 200 ISO, maybe 500 at the very most. You can't just back up something like a Kino - it doesn't look the same - so really there is always too much light as it is. I feel no urge to shoot under "natural" city light at night - moonlight would be cool, but even that is nowhere to be found in the centers of large cities, where very ugly light pollution overwhelms the moon in most places and most nights. But color - color is great, but far from perfect on MX, and still way behind film even with a careful grade. Fix that and you'll have my 10K with a smile.

jake blackstone
07-10-2013, 08:42 AM
We have some things that will help things along coming, and leverage your GPU.
Wait just a minute. Are you saying, that Red finally will allow GPU debayer?

Rudi Herbert
07-10-2013, 08:49 AM
+10 - rare is the time when we have no ND on the camera, or at least scrims/ND gels on the lights - as most lighting instruments are designed around the assumption of 200 ISO, maybe 500 at the very most. You can't just back up something like a Kino - it doesn't look the same - so really there is always too much light as it is. I feel no urge to shoot under "natural" city light at night - moonlight would be cool, but even that is nowhere to be found in the centers of large cities, where very ugly light pollution overwhelms the moon in most places and most nights. But color - color is great, but far from perfect on MX, and still way behind film even with a careful grade. Fix that and you'll have my 10K with a smile.

+ 1000!

Chris Bourke
07-10-2013, 08:53 AM
Decisions, decisions. Trying to figure out whether I should buy a used Epic right now and shoot till I can afford the Dragon, or just take the hit and buy a new Epic w/ Dragon.
Any suggestions?

Chris
bourkeproductions.com

Tony Harris
07-10-2013, 09:09 AM
yeah take the hit man because the investment puts you at the top of the line, why go used when you can go new? It may take a little more time but it will be well worth it..go Dragon.

Justin Kirchhoff
07-10-2013, 09:17 AM
There are advantages and disadvantages of taking the hit...

What first comes to mind is that if you haven't shot on a RED before, it'll be different from whatever you have been shooting on before. It takes some time to understand the exposure techniques, read the histogram correctly, get the settings the way you want them...

However, it's a walk in the park compared to other cameras on the market.

A lot of us took the hit when the R1's were first introduced. It was worth it then, and RED has stayed true to their first 1000 customers...and have even passed along rewards for those who have adopted the RED way of thinking a little later than the first of us.

So take the hit and shoot shoot shoot...just do some tests before taking on a job. The last thing we all want is a Dragon out in the wild that gets a bad name...

Mike P.
07-10-2013, 09:17 AM
Wait just a minute. Are you saying, that Red finally will allow GPU debayer?

Big NO on that... Last I read it was only the post-processing effects (and scaling?) that will be moving over to GPU. Basically still need an RR, but some of alchemy group, unsharp, grain, etc can be done on a GPU.

...Better than nothing.

Tony Harris
07-10-2013, 09:18 AM
Here it is the left field question>>> JARRED you guys killed the battery belt also..yes I've had battery belts for years..battery belt $200. Battery kit $800 will you make a cable or converter with an XLR connection for the battery belt power??? My belt will push 12 to 14 volts but my camera pushes 15v. Maaaaan back in the day I would be on a shoot for hours on one heavy ass battery belt until I bought a real camera. EPIC! I still have a pro JVC and 16mm film cameras that will run off the battery belt...Hook me up=)

Phil Holland
07-10-2013, 09:19 AM
Phil, we are finally getting an Epic in the next week or so. Would you mind explaining more in depth about how you do this or link to a prior post where you have? Don't want to get this thread off topic. Dragon sounds awesome. That is why we chose RED, way ahead of the curve and in another atmosphere altogether.

Congrats on the Epic Jamie. I'll make up a graphic this week illustrating the concept and start a new thread.



Decisions, decisions. Trying to figure out whether I should buy a used Epic right now and shoot till I can afford the Dragon, or just take the hit and buy a new Epic w/ Dragon.
Any suggestions?

Well for me it made sense to upgrade from my beloved Red Scarlet-X to Epic with Mysterium-X today because I have shoots that can take advantage of the 5K and overcranking benefits (I've had three shoots since receiving my Epic a couple weeks ago). Then I'll be able to upgrade to Dragon when it's available.

I'd say if you can make use of Epic today, go for it.



Hehehe, Jarred's call didn't seem to take long to get through it seems.

You lucky sons of a dragon!

When Jarred or Chris call I don't say no. I say what?!, really?!, and where?!

Tony Harris
07-10-2013, 09:28 AM
I still say take the hit..when you own the camera everything else will go out the window. I had a scarlet and never shot with it because I'm a little behind on two films in post but I went EPIC anyway. I will learn what I need to learn now but the first important thing is to buy the camera that you want and need for the job. All Im saying is why waste money buying a used Epic when you can put that money on a new EPIC DRAGON. With the latest and greatest camera from RED you may get more jobs and pay it off quick or make your money back faster.

Elsie N
07-10-2013, 09:41 AM
Decisions, decisions. Trying to figure out whether I should buy a used Epic right now and shoot till I can afford the Dragon, or just take the hit and buy a new Epic w/ Dragon.
Any suggestions?

Chris
bourkeproductions.com

Check and see if you can upgrade the used Epic to Dragon later. If so, buy the Epic, get in line for Dragon, and start shooting now. As some have suggested, face-time with the camera is important and I suspect knowing how to expose the Epic X will serve you well when switching over to the Dragon sensor.

EDIT: Just remembered the Dragon upgrade only comes with a 90 day warranty while a new Dragon probably comes with a one year warranty. Wait for the Epic Dragon.

Jarred Land
07-10-2013, 09:52 AM
Wait just a minute. Are you saying, that Red finally will allow GPU debayer?

heh heh heh. Baby steps :)

Danai Chutinaton
07-10-2013, 10:05 AM
heh heh heh. Baby steps :)

Sweet!!!!!

felipe meneghel
07-10-2013, 10:08 AM
great news!

Danai Chutinaton
07-10-2013, 10:34 AM
Jarred,

Any chance I can persuade someone at RED to change the way the upgrade shipping invoices are written? I just had to pay customs duties for the full amount on my recent Scarlet X to Epic X MX upgrade instead of just getting taxed on the $9500 USD. Planning on upgrading to the Dragon in the near future!

Ryan Sauve
07-10-2013, 10:47 AM
Jarred,

Any chance I can persuade someone at RED to change the way the upgrade shipping invoices are written? I just had to pay customs duties for the full amount on my recent Scarlet X to Epic X MX upgrade instead of just getting taxed on the $9500 USD. Planning on upgrading to the Dragon in the near future!

I'm interested in this as well, got dinged full Epic price instead of the difference.

jake blackstone
07-10-2013, 10:54 AM
heh heh heh. Baby steps :)

Well, that is definitely not a NO!!! That is HUGE! Would love to know more about it:-)

Jarred Land
07-10-2013, 11:00 AM
Jarred,

Any chance I can persuade someone at RED to change the way the upgrade shipping invoices are written? I just had to pay customs duties for the full amount on my recent Scarlet X to Epic X MX upgrade instead of just getting taxed on the $9500 USD. Planning on upgrading to the Dragon in the near future!

Email Brent, he will look into it.

Nick Fury
07-10-2013, 11:17 AM
Check and see if you can upgrade the used Epic to Dragon later. If so, buy the Epic, get in line for Dragon, and start shooting now. As some have suggested, face-time with the camera is important and I suspect knowing how to expose the Epic X will serve you well when switching over to the Dragon sensor.

EDIT: Just remembered the Dragon upgrade only comes with a 90 day warranty while a new Dragon probably comes with a one year warranty. Wait for the Epic Dragon.

The Epic M Dragon comes with a 2 year warranty, which can be extended to 4years, with red Armour, for $2,850.
New Epic X has 3 year warranty, but the dragon upgraded portion gets only 90 days of warranty, while the Epic X warranty still runs on the original purchase, if you were only owner (not transferred).
The non M version of new Epic dragon still not listed on Red Store site, but purchase price has been mentioned to be $24K. We'll see...

Thank you very much

Fury

Will Keir
07-10-2013, 12:24 PM
GPU Debayer? Could this be true?

That would be something special in addition to what is already special. Keep up the good work team.



heh heh heh. Baby steps :)

David Battistella
07-10-2013, 12:57 PM
heh heh heh. Baby steps :)

This makes a lot of sense with the new Mac Pros around the corner.

David

jake blackstone
07-10-2013, 01:05 PM
This makes a lot of sense with the new Mac Pros around the corner.

David


GPU debayer and decompression makes a lot of sense with ANY computer.

Dave Blackham
07-10-2013, 01:08 PM
Any pictures from Dragon available ?

Andy Roberts
07-10-2013, 01:20 PM
Any pictures from Dragon available ?

Jarred said:

"Expect to see images start trickling out over the next few weeks. "

It's in the first post. Those are always worth reading twice.

Jamie_Guy
07-10-2013, 01:39 PM
Congrats on the Epic Jamie. I'll make up a graphic this week illustrating the concept and start a new thread.

Thanks Phil, Appreciate it. So excited for the Epic.

Burke Doeren
07-10-2013, 02:52 PM
Hey Phil, I have a crop-factor question for you:

Because the new Dragon sensor is larger, will 5KFF on the Dragon yield the same field of view as 5KFF on the current MX sensor? I was reading over your spec sheets, and I saw that you posted 5KFF = 28.9mm on the Dragon. Is that a horizontal measurement or a diagonal measurement?

Edit: Nevermind, I just answered my own question.

It's pretty obvious those measurements on your anticipated coverage chart are diagonal. Still though, 28.9mm 5KFull on the Dragon isn't too far off from the MX's 5KFF 31.4mm diagonal. Good to know.

Werner Jauch
07-10-2013, 03:52 PM
If I recall the Dragon Scarlet was stated not to shoot at 6k at all. I would hope however that at least the stills part of the DSMC could be 6k (about 19 megapixel I believe). Is there any hope for 6kstills (or some slow speed such as 1fps on Scarlet Dragon?

Tony Lorentzen
07-10-2013, 04:45 PM
Dude. The pleasure was mine. A nice surprise for sure. Don't think I'll forget today anytime soon!

Dudes - get a room... then post some footage (from your shoot!) :-D

Alain M
07-10-2013, 05:02 PM
Your guys are cool and fun....I have a blast reading all your posts...the RED passion is the same on my end...Just that I am a baby reduser next to you all! But so proud of being part of this RED Family and RED_REVOLUTION!!!

:cornut:
Alain Maiki
Scarlet Owner!

Phil Holland
07-10-2013, 05:16 PM
Looks like some other folks are getting to see Dragon too.

Giovanni Ribisi via his Twitter (https://twitter.com/GiovanniRibisi):

"I just saw something that sees better than I do. I can't even describe it the quality#REDdragon#revoltionary"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BO1v4aTCIAAmNa1.jpg:large (https://twitter.com/GiovanniRibisi/status/355062960550453248/photo/1)

Eryc Tramonn
07-10-2013, 05:31 PM
Looks like some other folks are getting to see Dragon too.

Giovanni Ribisi via his Twitter (https://twitter.com/GiovanniRibisi):

"I just saw something that sees better than I do. I can't even describe it the quality#REDdragon#revoltionary"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BO1v4aTCIAAmNa1.jpg:large (https://twitter.com/GiovanniRibisi/status/355062960550453248/photo/1)

Lucky SOB...

Man, that's sweet. I'm jealous. :)

Congrats, dude.

Elsie N
07-10-2013, 05:47 PM
Something's amiss in that photo. The subject has his mouth slightly open while his image in the viewfinder is closed. Not suggesting anything sinister... just curious.

Joseph Coleman
07-10-2013, 05:49 PM
that is a good catch...doesn't look like its in playback mode either

Phil Holland
07-10-2013, 06:05 PM
Man, that's sweet. I'm jealous. :)

I wasn't there, but it did pop up on his Twitter.



Something's amiss in that photo. The subject has his mouth slightly open while his image in the viewfinder is closed. Not suggesting anything sinister... just curious.

If you plug your Epic or Scarlet into an HDMI monitor of any sort with any refresh rate and point the camera at the screen you'll see a slight delay. You will notice this with damn near any camera on the market. Combined with the slow exposure from the cell phone here and you'd get something a lot like this.

Brian Anderson
07-10-2013, 06:07 PM
Is that a New Red Lens on the Epic Dragon??

Kyle Dones
07-10-2013, 06:16 PM
I just finished watching Side by Side. I paused it twice to wrap my head around the idea of RED and the camera I own, not to mention the sensor I have pre-ordered. Just wanted to express my admiration for such technology through a post. Unfortunately there are no words to type that begin to even describe how highly I think of the camera I possess.

The part where they speak of Genesis in the film they spoke of the lenses they can use...which reminded me of the Dragon sensor. Did I miss any official post about lens coverage? I've read through several pages and before I get lost for another hour on REDuser.net reading through irrelevant banter, I figured I'd ask.

Ryan Lightbourn
07-10-2013, 06:25 PM
Something's amiss in that photo. The subject has his mouth slightly open while his image in the viewfinder is closed. Not suggesting anything sinister... just curious.

When I'm on music video shoots, the artist's mouth in the monitor always looks out of sync with the track (I think there's a slight delay).

Bob Gundu
07-10-2013, 06:32 PM
Is that a New Red Lens on the Epic Dragon??

looks like a regular RED prime to me.

Bob Gundu
07-10-2013, 06:33 PM
Something's amiss in that photo. The subject has his mouth slightly open while his image in the viewfinder is closed. Not suggesting anything sinister... just curious.

I would attribute this to crappy cell phone cameras that is dragging the shutter to get a decent exposure.

Elsie N
07-10-2013, 06:36 PM
If you plug your Epic or Scarlet into an HDMI monitor of any sort with any refresh rate and point the camera at the screen you'll see a slight delay. You will notice this with damn near any camera on the market. Combined with the slow exposure from the cell phone here and you'd get something a lot like this.


When I'm on music video shoots, the artist's mouth in the monitor always looks out of sync with the track (I think there's a slight delay).


I would attribute this to crappy cell phone cameras that is dragging the shutter to get a decent exposure.

Makes sense. Like I said, not suggesting anything sinister.

Neil Cronin
07-10-2013, 07:03 PM
Rolling shutter.

http://boingboing.net/filesroot/299792458mps.jpg

Mike P.
07-10-2013, 07:07 PM
I hope he's not cooking bacon.

Sergio Perez
07-10-2013, 07:09 PM
Rolling shutter.

http://boingboing.net/filesroot/299792458mps.jpg

Lucky Luke, faster than his own reflection?

Peter Moretti
07-10-2013, 07:12 PM
Neil, that's not a reflection... you're playing him on the monitor on the counter, right?

Danai Chutinaton
07-10-2013, 08:44 PM
Email Brent, he will look into it.

Will do. Thanks!

Roberto Lequeux
07-10-2013, 08:50 PM
Heater on the sensor and 10% less power, wow... DRAGON!!

Frank Weeks
07-10-2013, 08:58 PM
Ahhhhh.... This is what's great about being RED. The roll out....
Way to go guys

Jarred Land
07-10-2013, 10:23 PM
Ahhhhh.... This is what's great about being RED. The roll out....
Way to go guys

It feels like 2007 all over again :)

KETCH ROSSi
07-10-2013, 10:38 PM
So true Jarred!!

Mike P.
07-10-2013, 11:07 PM
I got a question; will the original REDone EVF and LCDs work with Dragon?

Danai Chutinaton
07-10-2013, 11:19 PM
Will the current 64GB, 128GB, and 256GB RED Mag SSD's handle Dragon's datarates just fine? Or will there be faster SSD's available down the road?

Jarred Land
07-11-2013, 12:25 AM
I got a question; will the original REDone EVF and LCDs work with Dragon?

Yes. And Danai, all the cards will handle Dragon max resolution, the faster cards will be able to shoot lower compression.

David Battistella
07-11-2013, 12:29 AM
Hey jarred,

What is the one thing you that stands out most about the new color science? Also can this new color science be applied to all older red footage, or is it dragon specific?

david

Phil Holland
07-11-2013, 12:50 AM
How about a few stills of Epic Dragon in action?

Testing out the Schneider Cine-Xenar IIIs at 6K 2:1
http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0004.jpg
(http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0004.jpg)
Mr. Christopher Probst rocking some 6K ANA with the Kowas
http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0032.jpg
(http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0032.jpg)
Red Pro Prime 50mm T1.8
http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0042.jpg
(http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0042.jpg)
Dragon going for a ride on some carbon fiber track
http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0043.jpg
(http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0043.jpg)
Shooting late into the night and well into the darkness
http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0048.jpg (http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/photography/redDragonTestShoot_07_11_2013/bigs/desertDragonShoot_0048.jpg)

Marcello Altieri
07-11-2013, 01:01 AM
I wish I could bring it to italy with me...Rome at 2000 ISO

John Marchant
07-11-2013, 01:03 AM
Great appetiser Phil... salivating for the main course ;)

Harcharan Singh
07-11-2013, 01:33 AM
:drool5::drool5::drool5::drool5::drool5::drool5::d rool5::drool5::drool5::drool5::drool5: