What types of EFP/ENG will you do?

[Steve Gibby]

IMO one of the cool things about the RED One camera system is its flexibility. Beyond its obvious cine-style use, I think there are a bunch of EFP/ENG uses for RED One. Here's a partial list of some of the genres/acquisition formats I'll use RED One for EFP/ENG:

HDTV programs (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)*
Commercials (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)
Infomercials (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)
Stock footage acquisition (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)
Music videos (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)
Business videos (2k, 1080p, 720p)
HDTV News & promo b-roll (1080p, 720p)
POV deck (1080p, 720p, with a cigar cam)
POV mount camera (2k, 1080p, 720p)
In-water camera with a custom housing (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)
Aerial hand held and gimbal mounted (2k, 1080p, 720p)
Broadcast teases and promos (2k, 1080p, 720p)
Public service announcement (2k, 1080p, 720p)

*Variety of non-news TV programs is broad. Here's some: sports, reality, documentaries, nature, music, episodics, and religious.

I can easily think of a much longer list than that!

What types of EFP/ENG producions will you do with RED One? Ideas and comments?

[Paul Hazlett]

I am hoping this will be big in the High end Corporate sector. They are starting to ask for HD and this is just more bang for the buck. We lose some business from Ad agencies who are working with certain departments of larger corps because they want the 35mm look not "film like".

Also Folks like ESPN, and Fox Sports would be interested I think.

We just have to work out the workflow of take away productions

[Lucerna Studios]

wich platform is recommended to handle red and 4k.

[Hrvoje Simic]

Since it's allways hard to add anything after you, Gibby, I just copied some off the stuff from your list...

HDTV programs
Commercials
Stock footage acquisition
Music videos
Business videos

[MikeCurtis]

nice list Gibby!

[Steve Gibby]

Thanks guys! The overall EFP/ENG industry dwarfs the cine-style industry in terms of sheer numbers of productions per year worldwide. Once RED One ships, and is tested, I expect significant numbers of "both styles" guys and EFP/ENG style guys to adopt RED One. Being a "posty" Mike, you also know that when the RED One post workflow is fully defined and NLE support is explained, that will be a green light to the EFP/ENG industry to explore ways for them to intergrate RED One into their workflows. That would bode really well fiscally for indie EFP/ENG types - and those who do their posting.

IMO there are fun times ahead...at NAB and beyond...

[Ken Willinger]

POV deck (1080p, 720p, with a cigar cam)

Won't you need an HD lipstick cam to do this? The one I saw at NAB last year was pretty expensive, over 10K IIRC. I have the Toshiba ice cube 3 chip lipstick cam...a great tool, but 4X3 SD.

I've worked on network magazine shows for years (Dateline, 60 Min, 20/20 etc.), though they have cut back quite a bit (remember when Dateline was on 4 or 5 times a week?) and have become sensationalist crap instead of good story telling over the years. Still waiting to see what the networks will do regarding formats. I don't think that I'll be able to use RED for that client base...at least for a while until they figure out where they are going format-wise (CBS-XDCam, ABC/NBC-?).

My other big clients are documentary producers. I see RED doing quite well in that genre. I also do a lot of national PSA campaigns and Corporate work and feel RED will be fine there as well. As long as we can give the RED license to our clients.

[Ralph Oshiro]

None!

• 4K [downconverted to 1080p] short/feature narrative films.
• 4K bikini girl footage.
• 4K display art.

[Ralph Oshiro]

[ENG/EFP is my day job. RED is for FUN!]

[Ken Corben]

HD non-fiction television I am producing until client base comes around to tapeless recording and redcine workflow/deliverables.

[jeffry alan]

Hey Gibby,

Personally, some of the things I am going to be looking for with the RED at NAB are related to shooting wildlife in the field such as:

quietness of operation
pre-record capabilities
one handed record/focus operation
minimal size considerations
removal of any extraneous knobs bars or handles
ability for lcd use in daylight (hood needed?)
ease of focus on moving object
drives vs. flash
low light usage
audio monitoring.

I would love to hear your input if and when you put the RED through the paces in the field.

J*

[tj williams]

Gibby.... surprisingly none of your very creative list of possible revenue streams includes any SD. Last time I looked there was still a lot more SD programming than any combination of HD. For instance in my region most regional spots are produced and played back in SD. It seems to me the RED with the 35m sensor downconverted to uncompressed SD should be a hell of a good 480I picture which would compete favorably with Digi Betacam etc. Since even used DigiBetas are close to the RED in price this surely represents a significant revenue stream for a lot of the RED owners.

Since we are talking ENG here pre-record capability is a big one!!!! Haven't heard it's in there????

[Milan Nikolic]

Lot of documentaries! That is my RED future.

[planet e]

for certain, i'll be doing these....

Commercials (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)
Infomercials (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)
Stock footage acquisition (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)
Music videos (4k, 2k, 1080p, 720p)
Business videos (2k, 1080p, 720p)

you can add me to the category of "lots of documentaries" as well....

and i'd like to shoot for HDTV programming....

i'd also like to shoot a few pilots. i have two clients who want instructional DVD projects anyway, who would be perfect for this. they present very nicely on camera and already have a following/user base. my idea is to shoot them as pilot programming...don't exactly know how to take it from there yet, but it's all part of taking my business to the next level....

anyone with any advice who wants to chime in on that issue, please do. i know there are lots of seasoned broadcasters here. and there are probably a few of us in the corporate video world who would love it if you shared some tips....

[Steve Gibby]

Won't you need an HD lipstick cam to do this? The one I saw at NAB last year was pretty expensive, over 10K IIRC.

You'd definitely need a lipstick or cigar cam for that type of POV shots. The one you referred to is probably the Iconix. I've been watching the development of their camera for about a year and a half now. It does shoot 1080/60p, but the camera control unit is bulky, and the system is pricey. At some point in the future, IMO either RED or a 3rd party will develop a self-contained cigar camera (no external CCU), that shoots 1080p60 (or higher) and 720p60 (or higher), has interchangeable lenses, and can support long cables. A system like that could be used as a mountable camera (helmetcam, etc.), with the cigar cam mounted and cable running to the RED camera body in a padded backpack, recording to Flash. Alternately, a tiny water housing could be made for the cigar cam and it could be pole mounted for hand held underwater shots from above the water, or mounted on small, mobile body-mounted jibs for creative shots of sports music, events, etc. In that configuration, the RED One body would be in a backpack worn by the shooter. Obviously there are tech issues to solve with something like this, but one of my longtime skill sets for network sports programs has been engineering and shooting cost-effective POV shots. I always think along those lines…unusual shots that tweak the viewer!



My other big clients are documentary producers. I see RED doing quite well in that genre. I also do a lot of national PSA campaigns and Corporate work and feel RED will be fine there as well. As long as we can give the RED license to our clients.

I couldn’t agree more…

[Steve Gibby]

Jeffry - I shoot a lot of nature television and nature stock footage, and I think you've made a very good list of features/attributes to investigate with RED One. I'll do my best to help answer some of those questions for you after I get my first RED camera. One of my very first shooting sessions will be 4k REDCODE RAW stock footage of a huge herd of elephant seals that hangs out on the beach just up the coast from me, by Big Sur. I'll use the new RED 300mm prime for that, and some wide lenses for establishing scenic shots. I'll post my impressions here, plus the 4k and 2k stock footage clips will then go up on the new Mammoth HD RED Collection pages. Most of the space holder DSLR stills currently on the three new Mammoth HD RED Collection pages are my shots. Link: http://www.mammothhd.com/MHD_RED1.html

TJ - I couldn't agree more. There is still extensive potential in SD television content/programs. The resolutions I gave on my opening post list are acquisition formats/resolutions. Through REDCINE and NLE systems SD resolutions should be easily attainable to service that market. I see that there are other threads on RED User going about that exact subject. For SD, I really like DVCPro50. One of the recent SD programs I produced/directed in SD was DVCPro50. The networks liked it, and I liked it. I see that on another thread Stuart pointed out the DVCPro50 option. If your footage is acquired in one of RED's high resolution formats, edited, and then a down-res master is extracted for 4/3 SD, it seems like you'll have the best of both worlds. Obviously there are tech issues to solve all along the acquisition and posting trail, but IMO it will be worth it in terms of the revenue generation potential. As Stuart mentioned, converter boxes via HD-SDI are another option for getting SD resolutions from RED One. Direct SD output from RED One, even if it is added in later via firmware upgrade, would be very useful to those who also service the SD broadcast market.

[tj williams]

Gibby
I have one of the AJA boxes OK for monitoring.... wouldn't wanta use it for an actual source. Maybe just the one I have?? Of course it would take us back to the era of portapaks with a recorder on a string.... there is a thread going about wanting to be able to do a direct RGB SD out from the RED. Maybe in version 1.1? Did you do the DVCpro50 with the Panasonic SDX900 I shot some spots with a rental one last year. The camera has a very nice look which probably helped.

[Steve Gibby]

TJ,

Oh yeah, the demand for SD deliverables in various genres of EFP/ENG will be around for some time to come as viable revenue streams. For some of those genres, rapid turnaround is critical. As I noted in my last post, I feel that direct SD output form RED One would be an excellent feature for RED One to have, if not initially, then via firmware upgrade as soon as possible.

Actually as I remember, it was Ikegami V75W DVCPro50 cameras we used for the production I mentioned. The footage was very clean. I've also used the SDX900, with very good results. I prefer the look of DVCPro50 to DigiBeta for SD footage.

[Ken Willinger]

the Iconix. I've been watching the development of their camera for about a year and a half now. the camera control unit is bulky, and the system is pricey. At some point in the future, IMO either RED or a 3rd party will develop a self-contained cigar camera (no external CCU), that shoots 1080p60 (or higher) and 720p60 (or higher), has interchangeable lenses, and can support long cables. A system like that could be used as a mountable camera (helmetcam, etc.), with the cigar cam mounted and cable running to the RED camera body in a padded backpack, recording to Flash.

Yes it was the Iconix. It looked pretty nice at NAB last year but I think prohibitively expensive...and I agree that the CCU was pretty large. If a self contained HD lipstick was developed, why would you need the RED in a backpack to record when all that is really needed is an HD or flash setup...unless you are thinking of using the built in RED software to control the output.

[Steve Gibby]

Just to think out loud:

It would depend on how "self contained' the cigar cam was. The Iconix camera needs to be cabled to the CCU, then output to a recording source (deck, etc.).

If there was a self-contained cigar cam, in the sense that it didn't need a CCU, then input directly to RED One in a pack, that would enable 1080p60 pov shots. I.E., the RED One body would be the "recording deck".

[Albert Cheng]

I'm really intending on getting into HDTV programming somehow, as that is my ultimate goal (Discovery, History, NG etc...)

In the meantime, I'll be using Red for:
Music Videos
Business Videos
Commercials
Stock Footage Acquisition