Jumper, shot on red or not?

[Andrej Lembanov]

Hi,
Yesterday I so the Jumper which is supposed to be shot with red camera. It is not my kind of movie but anyway I watched it completely admiring the cinematography for which at that point I was thinking that is done with red. Can you imagine my disappointment when in the credits I so that is shot with Panavision camera and lenses on the Kodak film. Can anyone explain me why on the official red web site this movie is presented as shot on red?

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

They only shot some of the film on Red, I can't remember exactly how much of the film was red but it wasn't a large amount of it I think. Maybe a few shots here and there.

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi,
Yesterday I so the Jumper which is supposed to be shot with red camera. It is not my kind of movie but anyway I watched it completely admiring the cinematography for which at that point I was thinking that is done with red. Can you imagine my disappointment when in the credits I so that is shot with Panavision camera and lenses on the Kodak film. Can anyone explain me why on the official red web site this movie is presented as shot on red?

If you look in the credits, you'll find several RED-related credits... Several scenes were shot on RED. Hidden in your disappointment though is the most important thing...

You did NOT notice which shots were "different." The film intercut seamlessly with the RED material.

I've performed this "test" with several of my DP friends. I told them beforehand to go see Jumper and tell me which shots were shot on RED. Not one of them could tell me, and these are all people with years of professional experience as DPs.

I think this speaks volumes about the camera, how far it has come, and where it is today.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Shawn Booth]

Jumper, as well as Wanted, used the RED for 2nd Unit and VFX shots.
That's all.

Wait for Soderbergh's movies.

[Ernesto Salvador]

Jumper, as well as Wanted, used the RED for 2nd Unit and VFX shots.
That's all.

Wait for Soderbergh's movies.

But Jumper must be like 70% VFX!!

[arashee8]

What I want to know is if there was any post production work done on the Red Footage to make it look like film? I'm not talking about color correction but specific processes to give it the film look.

[Zk2007]

If you look in the credits, you'll find several RED-related credits... Several scenes were shot on RED. Hidden in your disappointment though is the most important thing...

You did NOT notice which shots were "different." The film intercut seamlessly with the RED material.

I've performed this "test" with several of my DP friends. I told them beforehand to go see Jumper and tell me which shots were shot on RED. Not one of them could tell me, and these are all people with years of professional experience as DPs.

I think this speaks volumes about the camera, how far it has come, and where it is today.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

To be honest, that is not much of a test. Back when George Lucas shot The Phantom Menace and partially used the then brand new F900 1080p intercut with 35mm film, people asked him which parts were HD and he told them something along the lines of "You tell me" or "Go get them" and I don't think anybody could tell either, or they wouldn't have asked. And that was 1080p HDCAM. The truth is, you can intercut anything as long as it doesn't distract from the story.

[Frank Weeks]

What I want to know is if there was any post production work done on the Red Footage to make it look like film? I'm not talking about color correction but specific processes to give it the film look.

Of course . Red digital cinema will almost always need some CC and post work but, having seen segments of Soderbergh's upcoming movies at NAB, I don't care. They were stunning.

[Christoffer Glans]

Of course . Red digital cinema will almost always need some CC and post work but, having seen segments of Soderbergh's upcoming movies at NAB, I don't care. They were stunning.

I think he meant to ask about adding filmgrain and stuff like that. Of course you need to see it from the digital master rather then the 35 master to know if that is true.

[Michael Brennan]

To be honest, that is not much of a test. Back when George Lucas shot The Phantom Menace and partially used the then brand new F900 1080p intercut with 35mm film, people asked him which parts were HD and he told them something along the lines of "You tell me" or "Go get them" and I don't think anybody could tell either, or they wouldn't have asked. And that was 1080p HDCAM. The truth is, you can intercut anything as long as it doesn't distract from the story.

Here here, equaling HDs capability to intecut with film quality should be expected from RED. Also bear in mind that a colourist is paid good money to blend formats, often taking the res of the higher quality format down either side of a shot of lower quality.


The pithy point is that the audience didn't puke when the RED footage was screened, but given the lack of subjective judgement that an audience has that aint saying much!

Red has the legs:)


Mike Brennan

[John DeBoer]

Here here, equaling HDs capability to intecut with film quality should be expected from RED. Also bear in mind that a colourist is paid good money to blend formats, often taking the res of the higher quality format down either side of a shot of lower quality.



Case in point of HD and Film....watch Silent Hill. They carried 35mm and F950's and I can't tell the difference.

[Christoffer Glans]

cinematographers tend to focus so much on small details in the image that they forget that when you worked with the material in post and then screen it to an audience, they don't have a clue about what camera that was used.
It's hard to see that Zodiac was shot digitaly, only a trained eye can see it and I've made a shortfilm on a DVX100 that people thought was shot on 35mm... that say alot about how pointless the film vs video battle is today.

If you can handle digital cinema then you might get "the same" quality as a good cinematographer can get with 35mm. It's just a choice of almost the same tool based on what you prefer and what budget you have.

Know the tool and you will get "almost the same" result out of any camera.

[cinemano]

i guess perhaps for now RED is a B camera for big budget hollywood films.. kind of disapointing.. the hvx200 was also a B camera..

[Noah Kadner]

My understanding from folks who were on the shoot was that film was used for the entire main production- period. Then during editing Doug Liman got his hands on a RED and fell in love and during reshoots he pushed hard to shoot some scenes with it. But the final amount of RED footage in the finished movie was minor. Keep in mind this was last year when cameras were much less plentiful and more problematic. Whereas movies like Che, G.I. Joe, Manure, S.Darko, etc we're now hearing about are 100% main unit on RED.

Noah

[Wayne Morellini]

Hi,
Yesterday I so the Jumper which is supposed to be shot with red camera. It is not my kind of movie but anyway I watched it completely admiring the cinematography for which at that point I was thinking that is done with red. Can you imagine my disappointment when in the credits I so that is shot with Panavision camera and lenses on the Kodak film. Can anyone explain me why on the official red web site this movie is presented as shot on red?

Yes, this is a major disappointment. I was reminded it was supposed to be on Red, and bought the blu-ray to demonstrate to fiends and relatives (looking at stepping up to an Scarlet later this year). Then I noticed that it had film grain (a dead giveaway). They should really have list of which scenes are red.

Wouldn't anybody be able to supply a list to complete this thread?

I originally heard that it was supposed to be shot on Red during it's release, but because I was sick for a long time, by the time I got to watch it I forgot why, but did notice at least one scene looked odd.

[Wayne Morellini]

To be honest, that is not much of a test. Back when George Lucas shot The Phantom Menace and partially used the then brand new F900 1080p intercut with 35mm film, people asked him which parts were HD and he told them something along the lines of "You tell me" or "Go get them" and I don't think anybody could tell either, or they wouldn't have asked. And that was 1080p HDCAM. The truth is, you can intercut anything as long as it doesn't distract from the story.

Hmm, I noticed a difference on Phantom.

[Andrew Walker]

Yes, this is a major disappointment. I was reminded it was supposed to be on Red, and bought the blu-ray to demonstrate to fiends and relatives (looking at stepping up to an Scarlet later this year). Then I noticed that it had film grain (a dead giveaway). They should really have list of which scenes are red.

Wouldn't anybody be able to supply a list to complete this thread?

I originally heard that it was supposed to be shot on Red during it's release, but because I was sick for a long time, by the time I got to watch it I forgot why, but did notice at least one scene looked odd.

I was told that there was only a couple shots that were shot on the Red camera in "Jumper". All of them were the ones out on the ocean right before he jumps to that big wave that he gets away from. Might be one or two shots.

[Wayne Morellini]

Thanks.

[J. Eric Camp]

Film grain is not a dead give away because many houses are adding grain to RED footage. Especially when inter-cut with 35mm.

Take your family to see Knowing. 100% Red. No questions.

Lastly as to the comments before, when mixing formats the final is usually decided by the lowest common visual denominators. So, everything gets their various abilities dumbed down or characteristics added till everyone looks the same.

Lower sharpness, add grain is a common combo.

[Mark L. Pederson]

I was told that there was only a couple shots that were shot on the Red camera in "Jumper". All of them were the ones out on the ocean right before he jumps to that big wave that he gets away from. Might be one or two shots.

closer to a dozen - I need to count again -

there are shots that include - int. surf shop, ext. ocean, ext. london street, ext. bridge, int. apt.

[Andrew Walker]

closer to a dozen - I need to count again -

there are shots that include - int. surf shop, ext. ocean, ext. london street, ext. bridge, int. apt.

I didn't realize those shots got used. I was told by someone that worked with the post-super that the shots I described were the ones they used. But he could be wrong.

[Mark L. Pederson]

I didn't realize those shots got used. I was told by someone that worked with the post-super that the shots I described were the ones they used. But he could be wrong.
There were entire scenes that were shot that were not used - but I was there for all the Red shoots (they were done with our cameras) - and I looked at all the footage in Scratch - and I have a copy of the film on DVD - and it's certainly more than the "on the surfboard shot." I'll bust out the DVD and break it down if I have time on Friday before heading to Vegas. But you know ... the telling tale here is ... nobody can tell what's Red and what's 35mm -

[Wayne Morellini]

Film grain is not a dead give away because many houses are adding grain to RED footage. Especially when inter-cut with 35mm.

Take your family to see Knowing. 100% Red. No questions.

Lastly as to the comments before, when mixing formats the final is usually decided by the lowest common visual denominators. So, everything gets their various abilities dumbed down or characteristics added till everyone looks the same.

Lower sharpness, add grain is a common combo.

Yes unfortunately, I suppose even if most of it is shot on Red someone might still decide to add grain rather than de-noise any film footage.

Everything I have seen (very little) seems to be different from film. I also noticed a few shots in the film that I ws suspect might be from Red. the surfboard scene sticks out. I saw knowing and it was not my cup of tea, but I appreciate what was being achieved with the look.

Thanks for offering to do the list, it will be good to determine what is happening for certain. It is good you can still find the scenes from a DVD.

I want to say something about the added noise. I watched Babel on Blu-ray last week and the grain is everywhere and very heavy, outside and inside, I suspected it was added. I had to turn the de-noise function on my TV to maximum just to make it bearable to watch for me, and even then the noise was lots. I have noticed a fair bit of noise in the other title I had compared to what I remembered from the cinema. I am worried that noise is being added to disks, which destroys a lot of the reason for having them compared to DVD.

[Emmanuel Lariviere]

Whereas movies like Che, G.I. Joe, Manure, S.Darko, etc we're now hearing about are 100% main unit on RED.

Noah[/QUOTE]

G.I Joe is mostly 35mm. It's being shot by Mitchell Amundsen, who also shot Wanted. The RED is being used for certain fx shots. The main unit is shooting with Panavision cameras and anamorphic lenses.

[Wayne Morellini]

Well at least I don't have to go and see it as a Red film, bit old for that sort of stuff ;) .

[David Mullen ASC]

I want to say something about the added noise. I watched Babel on Blu-ray last week and the grain is everywhere and very heavy, outside and inside, I suspected it was added. I had to turn the de-noise function on my TV to maximum just to make it bearable to watch for me, and even then the noise was lots. I have noticed a fair bit of noise in the other title I had compared to what I remembered from the cinema. I am worried that noise is being added to disks, which destroys a lot of the reason for having them compared to DVD.

Some major sequences were shot in Super-16 and grain is a part of the visual style of that film -- so are you sure they added electronic noise to the picture, or are you just seeing the film grain clearly resolved?

I remember at the time the 2K D.I. was done, DP Rodrigo Prieto was a bit disappointed that the Spirit transfer used was blurring or blunting the grain of the Super-16 sequences, not making them stand out enough from the 35mm sequences. So maybe the Blu-Ray version is actually more in line with the intended look.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I don't know that any grain was added.

I'd have to dig out my AC article on it but I'm pretty sure they did some tests shooting clean and adding grain in post but the Director wasn't satisfied. My understanding was that they ended up with the grain 'as shot'.

[RikiButland]

Here here, equaling HDs capability to intecut with film quality should be expected from RED. Also bear in mind that a colourist is paid good money to blend formats, often taking the res of the higher quality format down either side of a shot of lower quality.


I totally agree with Michael

[Stephen Williams]

Jumper, as well as Wanted, used the RED for 2nd Unit and VFX shots.
That's all.

Wait for Soderbergh's movies.

The difference is some scenes made the final cut in Jumper, where nothing shot on RED was used in Wantrd