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Anders Holck
03-17-2007, 12:25 PM
Are those RED batteries cheap? A good option?

Just to place them in the universe I have made a chart with prices from a few companies. The range is from the dirt cheap "no name", to the well known brands.

Price wise the RED bricks are pretty competetive, and of cause they have that cool RED logo....

Hope you find it useful anyways:-)

http://holckowen.com/stuff/Batteries.png

Capacity and cut off
Currently there is no info on the power consumption of the red camera.
All Li-ion batteries have a current cut off protection, meaning that the battery has a maximum Watt output before it shuts down.
All the batteries on my chart are above 79W which means that the battery will supply at least 5.4A. I'll assume that the RED won't consume more than this cut off. There is no info on the cutoff of the Red batteries, but we should assume it to be in the range of 75-100W.

For the capacity or total watt hours of the battery package, I have tried to match a set of 4 RED batteries which is 4 x 140 WH=560 WH.
Some have more capacity and some a little less.

If we assume a max consumption of 79 W, 560 WH will last for 6 hours.

That means that for a full 8 hrs day we need to charge.

Chargers
Regarding chargers, I have chosen simultaneous chargers where available. That means that all batteries are charged simultaneously instead of sequentially.
Currently there is no info if the Red charger is sequential or simultaneous. My guess is that it's simultaneous.
It's a great feature to have if you are suddenly in a hurry, like if there has been a power out over night and you need the batteries charged ASAP.
I have also chosen to have a charge output for every battery. That means that all batteries can be charged simultaneously, with no need to change batteries. That is great if you charge overnight as all batteries will be ready in the morning.

Regarding Anton Bauer batteries, they are a little tricky:
The red camera has a V-lock mount so you need an adapter to mount it.
Also only the Dionic 90 has a small form factor, but it's only 90 WH.
Therefore I have made both an example of 4 batteries to match the amount, and 6 Batteries to match the capacity. The good thing about this is that 90wh batteries charge in half the time of 140WH batteries.

The red chargers also include a PSU cable. I have rated this cable to be $150 if you ordered it from a place like productioncables.com.
As you can't order the red charger without a cable (yet?) the red package includes two.
The GMP charger includes a 4 pin XLR PSU cable. So I have just included a price for a LEMO connector, that you manually have to solder on that cable.

Info on chargetime for the different chargers are sparse.
The Global media pro charger will charge all four 160WH cells in 364 mins.
The Anton Bauer charger will charge all six 90WH in 180 mins.

Red prices are from the Red accessory price list.
GMP prices from globalmediapro.com
Other prices from bhphotovideo.com
Other prices in italics from globalmediapro.com

Gunleik Groven
03-17-2007, 12:31 PM
This is very helpfull!

Gunleik

Sebastian Cramer
03-17-2007, 04:13 PM
I wonder if anyone of the redteam can give an aswer to this:
is there any kind of power output on the battery like the squared Anton Bauer connector to power a wireless lens control system? Maybe it's possible to steal power from the camera itself?

Stuart English
03-17-2007, 04:23 PM
There are 2 unregulated 11.5-17V (battery pass through) power outlets on the camera back. These use an industry standard 4 pin LEMO connector. In addition the the B4 lens interface provides 12V regulated power sufficient to drive a B4 mount broadcast lens.

Regarding power cut off. Because the camera can provide power to ancilliary devices you do need to consider the power cut off of the battery system you are purchasing. The camera itself may be fine, but camera and powered accessories can be a different matter.

Ralph Oshiro
03-17-2007, 04:32 PM
Stuart, if you're still watching this thread . . . I have four new Anton Bauer 14.4V 65Wh Ni-Cad bricks. Is a 65Wh brick a practical capacity to power RED?

Anders Holck
03-17-2007, 04:44 PM
The Nicd batterys still have one great asset: Low internal resistance.
This allows the cells to deliver a wast amount of current, even for prolonged periods.
The Anton bauer Propack can deliver 175W sustained. That's a 12A load.

The downside is the weight, low capacity and an extreme sensitivity to recharge cycles: You have to drain the battery completely and let it finish it's charge cycle otherwise you can ruin the cells and experience the memory effect.

Anders Holck
03-17-2007, 04:58 PM
Stuart. Just a few Q's hope you can anwser them:
- Any info you can share on the cut off of the Red Bricks?
- Is the charger 2 way simultaneous or sequential?
- Are there in cell CPU monitoring for a real on screen battery gauge or is it voltage based?

sandesh
03-18-2007, 11:22 AM
Anyone thought about these?

Fanny Pack Battery: 14.4 V 10Ah ( 144 Wh)
Burntime: 2.9 hrs @ 50W, 1.4 hrs @ 100W , and 35 minutes at 250W
Battery pack will be compitable with all Smith Victor, Anton Bauer Power Strap, and Bescor lights and replace all type of 12V-14.4V Battery packs

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2673

PaulClements
03-18-2007, 01:51 PM
Anders have you ever had any experience with GMP branded batteries yourself? If so it'd be interesting to hear how they compare to the others. Their prices look pretty good but it all comes down to whether the power supply/cutoff etc is suitable for the RedOne setup I spose.

Cheers

Paul

Anders Holck
03-18-2007, 02:09 PM
Yes I have 4 x 160Wh batteries for my steadicam, and 4 x 65 wh for a 7" Lcd.
I originally just bought them as a temporary solution until the Tiffen Powercubes would come out.

What do you know, they work great and keep on going.

I usually run 2 in parallel to get the weight up, but I have used a single cell for Sony HDcam 750, Pro 35, focus servo and 1400 cd/m lcd.

I have also run the 435 at 150 fps on 2 batteries, plus nicd booster pack, or 4 batteries (2x2 in series.)

As you say it all depends on the power usage of the Red camera system (and any mounted acessories like Stuart said)

Well, if you got the money, go for the Red batteries. Especially if you rent it out they definitely look way more professional than the GMP cells.

We just need more info on them like cutoff, and if the charger is sequential or simultaneous, to be able to really compare the prices.

Pig
03-18-2007, 03:50 PM
Those GMP batteries are quite inexpensive; nice find Anders.
BTW, they also offer 190Wh versions, although the V-Mount variety is currently back-ordered.

Also, as a quick not, the AB mount version appears to be about 10-15% less expensive. So, unless one HAS to have the V-Mount, the AB version will offer additional savings (compared to other brands).

Finner
03-18-2007, 04:05 PM
does anyone have the GMP website link?

Pig
03-18-2007, 04:35 PM
http://globalmediapro.com

(it's mentioned by Anders in the very first post of this thread)

tj williams
03-18-2007, 05:22 PM
WE have 2 power inputs we have 1 power output for the B4 lens. I can take a power output from the AB Plate adapter. Do we have any other power outs for instance Fiz focus etc????

Anders Holck
03-18-2007, 05:45 PM
The Red one has:
- 2 Unregulated acessory outputs (follows battery voltage, usually 16.5v on a full li-ion, drops to around 14v or so when empty)
- 1 12v regulated output on B4 power connector (Unknows current max, I would guess 1-2A)

Drive, EVF and LCD has powersupply in their cables so they don't occupy the 2 outputs.

Of course you'd have to watch the total draw of your acessorys:Camera, drive, EVF, LCD and FF. My bartech reciever and M-One servo is rated 3A at 12v when the servo is at max torque.

Finner
03-18-2007, 08:07 PM
http://globalmediapro.com

(it's mentioned by Anders in the very first post of this thread)

Ooop's I missed it at the bottom. Thanks for answeing anyways pig.

PaulClements
03-19-2007, 05:30 AM
Yes I have 4 x 160Wh batteries for my steadicam, and 4 x 65 wh for a 7" Lcd.
I originally just bought them as a temporary solution until the Tiffen Powercubes would come out.

What do you know, they work great and keep on going.

I usually run 2 in parallel to get the weight up, but I have used a single cell for Sony HDcam 750, Pro 35, focus servo and 1400 cd/m lcd.

I have also run the 435 at 150 fps on 2 batteries, plus nicd booster pack, or 4 batteries (2x2 in series.)

As you say it all depends on the power usage of the Red camera system (and any mounted acessories like Stuart said)

Well, if you got the money, go for the Red batteries. Especially if you rent it out they definitely look way more professional than the GMP cells.

We just need more info on them like cutoff, and if the charger is sequential or simultaneous, to be able to really compare the prices.

Thanks alot Anders.