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Robert Berger
08-24-2013, 10:38 AM
Will there in the near by future a 4K monitor output (3G) for the Dragon (Epic)? More and more on set 4K monitors are coming!!

Will Keir
08-24-2013, 10:59 AM
4k on set monitor. I like the sound of that.

Matt Ryan
08-24-2013, 11:11 AM
4k on set monitor. I like the sound of that.

ditto. If 1080p isn't good enough for deliverables or for future proofing, we should have 4k output for critical monitoring (minimum of 4kHD). Other cameras already have this option. How about it available through both HDMI and SDI as a user selectable option?

Robert Berger
08-24-2013, 12:22 PM
Panasonic has a new 4K. 31inch set monitor!

Brandon J.F.
08-24-2013, 12:33 PM
3G-SDI doesn't support 4K. The cameras that offer 4k monitoring require 4 3G-SDI connections.

This thread talks more about it: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97955-6G-SDI

Matt Ryan
08-24-2013, 12:36 PM
3G-SDI doesn't support 4K. The cameras that offer 4k monitoring require 4 3G-SDI connections.

This thread talks more about it: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97955-6G-SDI

We would need the sdi ports changed out to 6G-SDI. Not sure how difficult that would be...
http://provideocoalition.com/atepper/story/blackmagic-ships-first-6g-sdi-products-to-simplify-4k-cabling
http://www.hd4pc.com/techblog/2013/04/21/4k-video-over-6g-sdi-connections/

How cool would that be to capture the 4K stream and record externally pre-compression. Now that would be one high detailed image considering your taking a 6K image and downsampling to 4K not to mention already in a codec of choice. That would be efficient.

Brandon J.F.
08-24-2013, 12:48 PM
It would definitely be cool and look great.

I don't think 6G-SDI is a standard yet. I think it's just a Black Magic thing.

Robert Berger
08-24-2013, 04:56 PM
Hdmi posible? It will kill my +1 module.... Wich i like very much!!
Sdi 4k?

Patrick Tresch
08-24-2013, 05:09 PM
Sdi 4k?

As a future hardware upgrade!!!
Why not, knowing RED's commitment to 4k (and beyond).
But I wonder if there is still enough room to put more hardware in the matchbox?


Patrick

Matt Ryan
08-24-2013, 05:17 PM
As a future hardware upgrade!!!
Why not, knowing RED's commitment to 4k (and beyond).
But I wonder if there is still enough room to put more hardware in the matchbox?


Patrick

You would think it would be easier to output 4k than 1080p. Less downsampling, less processing. 6K to 4K seems easier than 6K to 1080p. But I'm not a programmer or engineer, I just shoot.

Jake Wilganowski
08-24-2013, 06:27 PM
Blackmagic can do it, I'm sure red can and eventually will. I mean, it's 1 cable, and an industry standard locking one at that. Would be awesome.

Matt Ryan
08-24-2013, 07:40 PM
Would be awesome if it could be sorted out before Dragon upgrades so cameras come out with an updated sdi port. Imagine that...

Robert Berger
08-25-2013, 02:53 AM
Sony F55 has over 1.4 HDMI 4K out and over 4x 3G Sdi 4K too. Needful for live projection of 4K at Concerts or Formule 1 on big screens.

Robert Ruffo New
08-25-2013, 01:58 PM
Will there in the near by future a 4K monitor output (3G) for the Dragon (Epic)? More and more on set 4K monitors are coming!!

Sounds like a waste of limited production budget resources. If you can't pull focus off 1080p, you really have a serious problem. On usual on-set monitor sizes, I doubt very many people could even tell the difference between even 720p and 1080p.

Matt Ryan
08-25-2013, 02:04 PM
Sounds like a waste of limited production budget resources. If you can't pull focus off 1080p, you really have a serious problem. On usual on-set monitor sizes, I doubt very many people could even tell the difference between even 720p and 1080p.

You win the pessimistic Reduser award for sure.

You may not want it, but you don't dictate what others want. I'd love to view images in 4K on set. It makes sense for a lot of reasons...I don't have to justify them to you. You also must not be on narrative sets because I've seen displays up to 55 inches. The future is coming whether you care to jump onboard or not, doesn't mean we shouldn't push for progress. If 1080p is good for you, then by all means, don't view in 4K.

Kevin Wild
08-25-2013, 02:13 PM
I'm with you, Matt.

We tout 4k to our corporate clients all we can. Then, they never even get to see the work in 4k. I'm hoping that a solution surfaces soon to allow us to at least show 4k on set so clients can see the difference...and know why they're paying more than just HD. ;-)

Thanks.

Kevin

Alexandros Tsoupras
08-26-2013, 12:15 AM
Would be awesome if it could be sorted out before Dragon upgrades so cameras come out with an updated sdi port. Imagine that...

+1 on that.

Jeff McCoy
08-26-2013, 08:49 AM
+1 for sure. I would pay for this before any other item. Remember when they said an HD video tap on a film camera was a waste? Well maybe 1080p is good enough for most people on set, but this is becoming a 4K+ world, so why not have the ability to monitor what you are shooting? On the bigger budget stuff, the agencies and clients would love it and it would help justify the need to shoot in 4K+ resolution. I'm sure it will happen sooner or later. Red has a LOT on their plate at the moment with so many announced products that still have to make it to market... but I do put my vote on this option when they can squeeze it in. Thanks in advance Red! ;)

Blair S. Paulsen
08-26-2013, 09:27 AM
FWIW, in the past, requests for UHD or 4K live output were met with the completely rational response - and what monitor are you planning to view the UHD or 4K signal on? Now its 2013 and RedUsers can actually answer that question. I'd say the ball is now in RED's court. Stuart...

Cheers - #19

Jeff Kilgroe
08-26-2013, 08:44 PM
At this point, the only logical argument against it, well two arguments as far as I'm concerned, are:

1> There is no proper on-set transport or interface for live 4K. It's either quad-SDI or HDMI with some small argument for DisplayPort. SDI is the only one capable of long runs with economical cables, but no one wants to wrangle 4 cables per monitor. Sure, we could start using a quad-coaxial cable that has all 4 in one sheathed cable, but then it's like dragging around a hose. Anyway, it would be a pain of sorts.

2> Monitors. Yes, there are 4K monitors shipping from several manufacturers now. Aside from SEIKI and Skyworth, no one is offering an HDTV type display under 50" right now. Sharp has their 32" UHD panel, also being sold under the DELL and ASUS labels and EIZO has their uber-expensive and rather bulky for its size 36" 4Kx2K monitor. SEIKI and Skyworth are shipping 39" panels. None of these scream out "on-set!!!" to me. If anywhere, they are a video village armchair directors' monitor or a critical check monitor for use in a blackout tent by the DIT or look manager.


Will we get 4K on-set monitoring. You betcha. But I don't think it's going to be in this round of upgrades. However, I would really hope that the Dragon upgrade at least includes HDMI 1.4a support and we could potentially get at least 4K / UHD output from the camera for playback. That would be my current hope and expectation. Beyond that, I really don't know what else to recommend because of the interface issue I've already mentioned. Quad-SDI on-set. Uh, no thanks. I don't want to be lugging around 32" and larger displays either. When I can get a 10~17 " lightweight 4K monitor that connects with a single cable that can run 50+feet, or better yet even have wireless abilities, then call me. Until then, I'm not interested. There are some tasks for which HD actually is "good enough"... At least for now.

Matt Ryan
08-26-2013, 09:27 PM
Jeff,

Couldn't we go 6G Sdi out of the Epic to a quad 3G-SDI converter at video village? That would cut down on the bulk of quad 3G-SDI cables running in a sheath. This could be a good workaround if Blackmagic has an option...

Tom Gleeson
08-26-2013, 09:43 PM
4K monitoring on set is sure to come but the reality of lugging around large monitors to take advantage of this resolution is another thing. 1920X1080 res on monitors 17" and smaller looks awesome and on my Sony OLED 17" I cannot see pixel structure no matter how close I am. 1920X1080 starts to run out of puff by 40" display size. This is all dependant how close you are to the screen of course but from the small numbers of 4K screens I have seen mainly at trade fairs 4K only really comes into its own on 65" screens

Jeff Kilgroe
08-26-2013, 10:44 PM
Jeff,

Couldn't we go 6G Sdi out of the Epic to a quad 3G-SDI converter at video village? That would cut down on the bulk of quad 3G-SDI cables running in a sheath. This could be a good workaround if Blackmagic has an option...


6G-SDI is a proprietary BlackMagic thing and it seems to be a hybrid signal DDR take on 3G SDI. You would need two 6G SDI connections to equal quad-3G SDI. Then you would need converters based on BlackMagic tech, assuming they're willing to make such things and/ or license any of it out. RED would have to adopt their tech to incorporate it into the camera... FWIW, I think we're better off with HDMI. We can go HDMI out of the camera at UHD up to 30Hz (assuming the camera would allow it to happen, that is what the current HDMI interfaces can allow) and then we could go into an HDBASE-T sender and send that 4K signal over a single CAT-6 UTP up to about 240 feet with the HDBASE-T receiver at the other end. IMO, that's the most realistic and workable solution at the moment.

A good HDBASE-T balun set capable of UHD/ 4K, like the GEFEN one, is about $280 online from B&H, Adorama and other places that sell them. The cheap crappy one from MonoPrice is $100 cheaper and still does 4K. I've actually used it as a signal booster to get the REDRAY to cooperate with the SEIKI.

Roberto Lequeux
08-26-2013, 10:56 PM
I wonder if there could a +2

No dying need for 4k under 9", so I don't see it as a must-have in the brain

Meizler would also have to offer it

Robert Berger
08-26-2013, 11:15 PM
Panasonic and jvc new "small" on set monitoren probely to see at IBC Amsterdam. Hope that there be a Big Screen viewing from Dragon shots.

Alexandros Tsoupras
08-27-2013, 12:18 AM
At this point, the only logical argument against it, well two arguments as far as I'm concerned, are:


I would really hope that the Dragon upgrade at least includes HDMI 1.4a support and we could potentially get at least 4K / UHD output from the camera for playback. That would be my current hope and expectation.

+1 on that.

Luis Otero
08-27-2013, 05:23 AM
There is a say in Spanish that loosely goes like this: "One thing is just calling the Devil, and other is seeing it come". Do we really need to have as an on-set monitoring of images that we know that will be manipulated, either with low intensity, and others with heavy intensity, to be shown to the clients? Are we calling for more problems by insensible questioning from people that do not understand that WYSIWYG is not the case of the on-set monitoring?

Just a thought and open for discussion...

Jake Wilganowski
08-27-2013, 07:25 AM
What about wireless transmission of the 4k signal via hdmi? Would something like the parralinx arrow work?

Ivan McCullough
08-27-2013, 08:16 AM
I for one think 4k monitoring would be advantageous in situations where costumes or the like are exhibiting moire etc on the down scaled hd feed but may not have these problems on the 6/5/4k masters.

I never have a DIT station capable of playing back a clip in real time but if 4k monitoring were possible then in time basic rental kits would start to include 4k monitors.

I recently did a one day job where I had costume change 3 items of clothing because I could not be sure if they were a problem or not. The problem was showing on the hd monitors and at 1/4 res on the MacBook but that tells me nothing.

Jeff Kilgroe
08-27-2013, 09:04 AM
There is a say in Spanish that loosely goes like this: "One thing is just calling the Devil, and other is seeing it come". Do we really need to have as an on-set monitoring of images that we know that will be manipulated, either with low intensity, and others with heavy intensity, to be shown to the clients? Are we calling for more problems by insensible questioning from people that do not understand that WYSIWYG is not the case of the on-set monitoring?

A valid point for sure, but not all of us are working in those situations where we have technically illiterate producers, directors and agency people breathing down our necks. There are distinct advantages to being able to see the most detail possible. In that it also makes a case for display of native acquisition resolution, even if it's 6K+, as an option. For scenarios as you have mentioned, I think it would be advantageous to only show the level of detail appropriate.

I have definitely met people who shouldn't be allowed to see anything better than 480p monochrome...

Blair S. Paulsen
08-27-2013, 11:45 AM
On a soundstage, using large UHD or 4K monitors would be simple enough. Jeff's notes about cable wrangling are well taken and more elegant solutions would be welcome.

In my world, which includes a Sprinter van with a proper viewing environment, a 55" monitor is no problem - I have the 50" Seiki in there at the moment - of course not everyone has that particular setup. Using a ATI Radeon 7970 and a RedRocket card in a GlobalStor ExtremeStor PC I am able to do QC at UHD rez in the van from the RedMag in the RedStation reader in RedCine. I have a RedRocket BreakOutBox as well but since I don't have a AJA Hi-5 mini converter I have not been feeding the Seiki directly from the RR BOB, though in theory that should work as well. Sadly, there is some stuttering on playback as a single Rocket is overmatched by 5K footage, something a second Rocket would likely fix - I think that's how OffHollywood rolls - but I am waiting for the RedRocket-X ;-)

FWIW, the big hi rez image is great for checking focus and noticing items in the frame that need attention - items we missed on smaller, lower resolution monitors. The tangible benefit for producers is knowing with greater certainty that we "got" the shot - this allows us to move on to the next setup without endless "safety" takes and to release talent/crew before they go into OT, etc. There is also something to be said for the satisfaction level of clients (spot world) seeing the clips so big and sharp. YMMV.

IAC, being able to monitor a live UHD or 4K feed would be even better. Whether the Epic hardware could support pushing that out of the HDMI port is unknown - I'd guess it would take an upgraded board, which, in such a physically small device, might be very difficult - not to mention the thermal envelope.

Cheers - #19

Mark L. Pederson
08-27-2013, 01:40 PM
A good HDBASE-T balun set capable of UHD/ 4K, like the GEFEN one, is about $280 online from B&H, Adorama and other places that sell them. The cheap crappy one from MonoPrice is $100 cheaper and still does 4K. I've actually used it as a signal booster to get the REDRAY to cooperate with the SEIKI.

Yup. The Monoprice ME100's are working great for us for 4K over ethernet to/from HDMI.

Speaking of monoprice - these 4K ready HDMI cables are thinner than BNC's and work GREAT - 50' - http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=9432&seq=1&format=2

Luis Otero
08-27-2013, 03:04 PM
A valid point for sure, but not all of us are working in those situations where we have technically illiterate producers, directors and agency people breathing down our necks. There are distinct advantages to being able to see the most detail possible. In that it also makes a case for display of native acquisition resolution, even if it's 6K+, as an option. For scenarios as you have mentioned, I think it would be advantageous to only show the level of detail appropriate.

I have definitely met people who shouldn't be allowed to see anything better than 480p monochrome...


Agreed...!

Mark L. Pederson
08-27-2013, 03:06 PM
When I can get a 10~17 " lightweight 4K monitor that connects with a single cable that can run 50+feet, or better yet even have wireless abilities, then call me. Until then, I'm not interested. There are some tasks for which HD actually is "good enough"... At least for now.

If the EPIC could do live 4K live out soon - it would be significant. Even if it was a more expensive module - it would be a BIG deal.

EVERY single commercial and fashion shoot here in NYC would have a 4K client monitor if they could.

Not to mention all the other opportunities that 4K live out gives you - it would allow realtime pan, scan and zoom for 1080p broadcast while recording 4K + at higher framerates for sports for example.

Robert Ruffo New
08-27-2013, 06:34 PM
There is a say in Spanish that loosely goes like this: "One thing is just calling the Devil, and other is seeing it come". Do we really need to have as an on-set monitoring of images that we know that will be manipulated, either with low intensity, and others with heavy intensity, to be shown to the clients? Are we calling for more problems by insensible questioning from people that do not understand that WYSIWYG is not the case of the on-set monitoring?

Just a thought and open for discussion...

Luis, you made my point far better than I did. We deliberately have kinda crappy monitors on set - they are fine for framing and focussing, that's it. We even have a sticker that says "this monitor is framing-accurate only" which invites a client-conversation if they ask, which helps them understand RAW.

Robert Ruffo New
08-27-2013, 06:36 PM
You win the pessimistic Reduser award for sure.

You may not want it, but you don't dictate what others want. I'd love to view images in 4K on set. It makes sense for a lot of reasons...I don't have to justify them to you. You also must not be on narrative sets because I've seen displays up to 55 inches. The future is coming whether you care to jump onboard or not, doesn't mean we shouldn't push for progress. If 1080p is good for you, then by all means, don't view in 4K.

So you can see 1080p vs 4K on a '9 screen?

Robert Ruffo New
08-27-2013, 06:39 PM
I'm with you, Matt.

We tout 4k to our corporate clients all we can. Then, they never even get to see the work in 4k. I'm hoping that a solution surfaces soon to allow us to at least show 4k on set so clients can see the difference...and know why they're paying more than just HD. ;-)

Thanks.

Kevin

If they are delivering at 1080p, which most clients still are, then why would they need to see it? AND... they are seeing it. 4K looks way better when downsampled to 1080p than something originated at 1080p, and has way more laittitude for re-framing, grading, greenscreen, feature-tracking (post tracking) and other benefits.

Luis Otero
08-27-2013, 07:10 PM
Luis, you made my point far better than I did. We deliberately have kinda crappy monitors on set - they are fine for framing and focussing, that's it. We even have a sticker that says "this monitor is framing-accurate only" which invites a client-conversation if they ask, which helps them understand RAW.

Robert,

My opinion is that on-set monitoring is just that, on-set monitoring. It serves a purpose, which is mainly a reference point.

If the clients are to see their images in their whole splendor, the studio in where they are editing and grading the footage, with far more lighting control, they will really be able to appreciate the quality of the footage, and the aesthetic path being followed to finesse their look.

The on-set environment, IMO, is not conductive to really appreciate the splendor of the 4K images (unless a theatre-controlled-tent is always on the move between locations).

Just my opinion...

Blair S. Paulsen
08-27-2013, 08:45 PM
I am not an engineer, I don't even play one on TV, but I'd sure love the rock star engineers at RED to consider the feasibility of the following:

RocketDeck:

Put a RedRocket-X and a RedStation mag reader in a stand alone chassis with multiple I/O options. Can be connected to computers via Thunderbolt 2, USB 3, etc and used as an external RedRocket-X appliance with a mag reader on the same fast bus, as well as direct connection to monitoring over SDI, HDMI, etc.

Include a mid-level CPU, RAM, 256GB SSD and an OS so if desired it could stand alone. Design it to be controlled from a laptop, tablet, phone, USB, Bluetooth, etc. The Rocket-X is doing the heavy lifting as well as providing monitor output(s) for GUI and full quality clean image (laptop, tablet or phone could display the GUI as well) so the "host" would not need expensive high end chips.

Now you have a roughly $10,000 (rack mountable please) black box that can be used to play out r3ds at your resolution of choice up to 4K in real time. It could use RedCinePro-X or something similar as the control environment so you can tweak the image to taste for the live outputs. Among other things, this would allow you to push out a graded RGB image at UHD or 4K over 4x SDI or other appropriate I/O for ingest/recording/etc in real time.

RocketLink:

Now here's the kicker. What if you made plugs that fit into an Epic SSD module, using the existing pins/contacts, and fed that out over fiber (tactical please) to a matching plug on the other end that fit into the mag reader in the RocketDeck. The RAW bitstream would then be decoded by the Rocket-X, "shaded" by the virtual CCU provided by the look tools in RedCinePro-X (or perhaps a modified version of same) and sent out to the switcher over SDI or HDMI for live hardlined production applications.

This topology allows the heavy decoding effort to happen away from the camera so no expensive, heavy, power hungry, heat generating module has to be added. In addition, it allows the metrics of the decode and playback to be managed at the technical/switching station in the truck/control room where "shaders" have traditionally been situated. Yes, I realize actual iris control would probably not be supported, but the operator could set it manually to something appropriate to the situation, and with 16 stops of DR the shader should be able to ride the levels and match the cameras nicely.

There are probably gotchas I haven't thought of, but I like the fact that it shouldn't require any re-engineering of the camera itself. It might even support iso recording by adding a rear SSD module in addition to the side SSD - not sure if the internal signal routing would allow that, but it seems likely. IAC, always looking for ways to use my favorite camera in a wider range of applications.

Cheers - #19

Matt Ryan
08-27-2013, 09:37 PM
So you can see 1080p vs 4K on a '9 screen?

hahahahahahaha you give your clients a 9" monitor for playback and viewing? my GOD! We have 24" screens minimum, sometimes up to 55" depending on the shoot. So yes, you can easily tell a difference even on a 24" monitor... I'm not talking about for onboard monitoring if that's what your argument entails.. Why are you so against this as an option? For GOD sake, if you don't like it, don't use it. Stick to 1080 if you like.

Tom Lowe
08-27-2013, 10:44 PM
4K out to monitor would be GREAT.

Robert Berger
08-28-2013, 01:50 AM
why should it be difficult to get a 4K out of a Dragon or Epic-X. If you can make it down to 2K why not to 4K? Must be easier?? HDMI out ore better New kind of SDI out! And the best thing would be if you can choose between 4K or 2K (full HD). The Sony's F55 can do it.

Matt Ryan
08-28-2013, 01:52 AM
why should it be difficult to get a 4K out of a Dragon or Epic-X. If you can make it down to 2K why not to 4K? Must be easier?? HDMI out ore better New kind of SDI out! And the best thing would be if you can choose between 4K or 2K (full HD). The Sony's F55 can do it.

Exactly. It would be cool to have a user select option of 2k or 4K output. I'd love to record that 4k stream to a recorder for Direct to Edit workflow for relinking later in Resolve. That would be amazing. Also, if the Paralinx could transmit that 4K signal wirelessly, that would be incredible.

Luis Otero
08-28-2013, 02:29 AM
Exactly. It would be cool to have a user select option of 2k or 4K output. I'd love to record that 4k stream to a recorder for Direct to Edit workflow for relinking later in Resolve. That would be amazing. Also, if the Paralinx could transmit that 4K signal wirelessly, that would be incredible.

Matt,

Such restriction (2K maximum output through HD-SDI and HDMI) was intentionally built into the cameras, starting with the Red-One, to assure you use the Red media (cards, RedRaid, and solid state bricks media). Actually, there was a firmware inserted into those medium so that if you tried to use a different, non-Red approved media, the max. resolution was limited to 2K.

So, all this was part of the system since the get-go.

Matt Ryan
08-28-2013, 02:33 AM
Matt,

Such restriction (2K maximum output through HD-SDI and HDMI) was intentionally built into the cameras, starting with the Red-One, to assure you use the Red media (cards, RedRaid, and solid state bricks media). Actually, there was a firmware inserted into those medium so that if you tried to use a different, non-Red approved media, the max. resolution was limited to 2K.

So, all this was part of the system since the get-go.

Back then no one else was allowing 4K straight out of camera either. But now they are.

Are you saying RED won't change and offer a 4K output? Because I think they will eventually... If we show enough interest I honestly believe they will consider it. I'd rather have a decked out camera with more options than limits, wouldn't you agree? Even if you don't need a 4K out, it's a great option to have and it's forward thinking. Forward thinking is what brought RED into the game. But that's just my opinion.

Luis Otero
08-28-2013, 02:39 AM
Matt,

I a not in a position to establish what Red will or will not do in the future. I just was adding a fact into the conversation that could help to explain the situation.

I am with you: the more options, the better...! But, there were/are business decisions made for a reason, we like it or not. However, I would advocate to have as many options as possible.

Hope this helps to clarify the rationale of my posting.

Maz Mawlawi
08-28-2013, 05:55 AM
I think Luis is saying that by enabling 4K output to other devices that it may impact the sales of RED SSDs but I don't think it will that much since the only way to record RAW r3d files is still only on RED ssd.

Robert Berger
08-28-2013, 06:19 AM
I think Luis is saying that by enabling 4K output to other devices that it may impact the sales of RED SSDs but I don't think it will that much since the only way to record RAW r3d files is still only on RED ssd.

And you always want the R3D files!!

Maz Mawlawi
08-28-2013, 07:05 AM
And you always want the R3D files!!

Agreed! That's the most important factor and advantage of the RED workflow. I would feel soooooo limited in post without the r3D flexibility...I have become so spoiled with the advantage of RAW r3d...;)

Rick Jarvis
08-28-2013, 03:35 PM
+1 4K on set monitoring will help art department, make up etc to a lot more accurate and help give us more confidence. We now deliver Full HD and 4K final deliverables for all our commercials etc

Matt Ryan
08-28-2013, 03:38 PM
Matt,

I a not in a position to establish what Red will or will not do in the future. I just was adding a fact into the conversation that could help to explain the situation.

I am with you: the more options, the better...! But, there were/are business decisions made for a reason, we like it or not. However, I would advocate to have as many options as possible.

Hope this helps to clarify the rationale of my posting.

Hey Luis,

I completely understand, I'm just hoping RED will change their stance and offer this option. Back in the day there weren't any 4K external recorders either. I feel like the Epic/Scarlet will become much more versatile if this was an option. One more reason to not hate RED for the haters... Dragon is a huge leap in that direction, but this could greatly improve those opinions from outsiders. Total takeover is what RED needs hahaha

Matt Ryan
09-04-2013, 11:22 AM
HDMI 2.0 finalized. Looks promising.

http://gizmodo.com/hdmi-2-0-is-here-60fps-4k-18gbps-and-32-channel-audi-1250224581