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Gunleik Groven
08-29-2013, 10:32 PM
Jarred sent me a Dragon to do a few tech tests.

Of which I will not be able to post much, unfortunately.
But getting to look a bit under the hood still makes me kinda excited, even without beans to spill.
Tom and Mark gets all the fun! But that is how it works.
I am happy just to be able to play a bit.

I can confirm, after a few hours of mainly shooting, and no post - except for quick peeks, that:

1. Dragon is something else. Just pure bliss. You really want to skip those charts and the list of exposure bracketing tests under different kinds of light you have promised to go through, and shoot something real.
2. No polkadots seen yesterday @ T22 against the sun.
3. Smooth... Did I mention Smooth?
4. 6k There is really a difference
5. Gee. It is the real deal. And it just works.
6. Dragon is kinda fun... :)

Thanks!

G

Nick Morrison
08-29-2013, 10:35 PM
Please shoot something crazy with the Jena's on Dragon, or your 16mm Standard! Your vintage glass + Dragon = BALLS!!!!

Mathias Erichsen
08-29-2013, 10:36 PM
Oooh! So we have a Dragon in Norway now? :)

Gunleik Groven
08-29-2013, 10:36 PM
Thanks.

I will try to sneak in a few shots, but I guess we will not see them for a while... ;)

Appreciate that!

Hans Magnus Kvåle
08-29-2013, 10:43 PM
I wish Dragon welcome to Norway then, have fun Gunleik!
We're looking very much forward to this upgrade up here in Trondheim too :-)

Matt Ryan
08-29-2013, 11:16 PM
So, in doing your tests, any early non official DR numbers?

Phil Holland
08-29-2013, 11:29 PM
3. Smooth... Did I mention Smooth?

Have fun Gunleik!

I don't recall ever in the past being this calm about a new camera and yet also being so excited.

I like smooth.

Les Dittert
08-29-2013, 11:38 PM
I'm starting to understand why nobody with the Dragon will compare it directly against MX. They become so mesmerized and entranced that they forget about everything else and just start shooting with it. :-)

KETCH ROSSi
08-29-2013, 11:39 PM
You are in one of the most beautiful places I have seen Gunleik, you need to show us some of that beauty... ;)

Lee Saxon
08-30-2013, 12:05 AM
Of which I will not be able to post much, unfortunately.


Why?

Gunleik Groven
08-30-2013, 12:38 AM
@ lee

because it is no reason throwing premature and unverified stuff around on a unereleased camera.

but

dragon is "more"

a lot "more"

dr
fidelity
rez
smoothness

and "less" noise.

just pure bliss

but that is why... :-)

Vadim Bobkovsky
08-30-2013, 12:40 AM
I understand the private or copyrighted studio stuff, though some shots with gorgeous vintage glass on would've been great to look at, I bet. Recently one generous gentleman allowed me to play with his respectable collection of really old and some rather rare still glass. One weekend and I fell in love with much of the oldies, but I had to return them back to the owner. There's something "else" about the old lenses, I can't quite put my finger on it.

Nick Morrison
08-30-2013, 12:49 AM
There's something "else" about the old lenses, I can't quite put my finger on it.

Older coatings (ie more flares, less contrast, more forgiving on highlights), vintage bokeh (less corrected designs, so more prone to swirls and other oddetites). The accumulation of older choices leads to interesting "organic" looks.

Joachim Hoge
08-30-2013, 12:59 AM
Happy to hear you got your hands on a Dragon Gunleik!
Cant wait to get ours. Have fun.

Mark Whatmore
08-30-2013, 01:26 AM
You are so the right person to be testing.... so scientific and systematic. Now I want one.

Brice Ansel
08-30-2013, 02:16 AM
Jarred sent me a Dragon to do a few tech tests.
G


I understand the private or copyrighted studio stuff, though some shots with gorgeous vintage glass on would've been great to look at, I bet. Recently one generous gentleman allowed me to play with his respectable collection of really old and some rather rare still glass. One weekend and I fell in love with much of the oldies, but I had to return them back to the owner. There's something "else" about the old lenses, I can't quite put my finger on it.


Older coatings (ie more flares, less contrast, more forgiving on highlights), vintage bokeh (less corrected designs, so more prone to swirls and other oddetites). The accumulation of older choices leads to interesting "organic" looks.

:-)

Gunleik Groven
08-30-2013, 04:24 AM
OK...

I will post three testshots.

nothing really beautyful, I am afraid, and not all now.

This is shot directly at the sun with a 16mm Ultraprime @ T22

Not a hint of polkadots
Not a hint of overexposure-distortion..

(and if you are curious: overexposure behaviour is the intent of this, NOT recoverability. See how lovely Dragon fades into pure white...!)

nJoy!

G

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1277417_10151832175280126_167633292_o.jpg

Sergio Perez
08-30-2013, 04:44 AM
Love what Jarred and the team are doing, letting the biggest contributors and older Redusers and owners test the Dragon. Talk about a company that respects and values its community and users. I'm staying right here for my next camera purchases.

Shane Betts
08-30-2013, 05:20 AM
That is very impressive. Digital gets all analogue on us.

Gunleik Groven
08-30-2013, 05:39 AM
That is very impressive. Digital gets all analogue on us.

My thoughts exactly...

Off to shoot!

Brice Ansel
08-30-2013, 05:44 AM
Me want a quick fix.
Is it time to ask for a pic with deep depth of field in low light cituation?
B.

KETCH ROSSi
08-30-2013, 06:19 AM
And that to some that do get the miracle happening, it is a beautiful site!!

Marcos Montenegro
08-30-2013, 06:31 AM
Gunleik:

Thanks! I know this is beta, but can we get some EPIC-DRAGON comparisons?


OK...

I will post three testshots.

nothing really beautyful, I am afraid, and not all now.

This is shot directly at the sun with a 16mm Ultraprime @ T22

Not a hint of polkadots
Not a hint of overexposure-distortion..

(and if you are curious: overexposure behaviour is the intent of this, NOT recoverability. See how lovely Dragon fades into pure white...!)

nJoy!

G

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1277417_10151832175280126_167633292_o.jpg

Matt Gottshalk
08-30-2013, 07:10 AM
Nice organic rolloff.

Gunleik Groven
08-30-2013, 07:19 AM
no point in asking for comparative shots.

i do not have the time for them... :-)

Jeremy Torrie
08-30-2013, 07:54 AM
Gunleik -I'd love to see a shot like the one you've posted but with a live person in the foreground...whether their head blocks the sun or otherwise. Would love to see how Dragon deals with such incredible contrast.

Also, Jarred said we would still have HDRx -is that true?

Brandon J.F.
08-30-2013, 08:05 AM
This is shot directly at the sun with a 16mm Ultraprime @ T22

Not a hint of polkadots
Not a hint of overexposure-distortion..

(and if you are curious: overexposure behaviour is the intent of this, NOT recoverability. See how lovely Dragon fades into pure white...!)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1277417_10151832175280126_167633292_o.jpg

Wow, that really is impressive. Can't wait to see more.

Hans Magnus Kvåle
08-30-2013, 11:52 AM
Gunleik -I'd love to see a shot like the one you've posted but with a live person in the foreground...whether their head blocks the sun or otherwise. Would love to see how Dragon deals with such incredible contrast

This is the kind of shot I'm curious about too.

The sun is pretty low these days and I recently had a shoot in the woods with strong sunlight in background trees and moderate light hitting the subject.
I guess Dragon will handle these type of shots very well?

Sanjin Jukic
08-30-2013, 11:53 AM
https://sphotos-a-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q81/1235363_10151832806895126_224920680_n.jpg

Michael Mayda
08-30-2013, 12:16 PM
Looks like Dragons are in the wild. Check it out:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?104916-Dragon-Upgrades

Pablo Moreno
08-30-2013, 12:54 PM
So, Sanjin you have one too?? I'll be darn!

Will Keir
08-30-2013, 01:13 PM
Alright G! Do you mind if I call your G? :)

Glad one of these Dragons got in your hands. Looking forward to it.


Jarred sent me a Dragon to do a few tech tests.

Of which I will not be able to post much, unfortunately.
But getting to look a bit under the hood still makes me kinda excited, even without beans to spill.
Tom and Mark gets all the fun! But that is how it works.
I am happy just to be able to play a bit.

I can confirm, after a few hours of mainly shooting, and no post - except for quick peeks, that:

1. Dragon is something else. Just pure bliss. You really want to skip those charts and the list of exposure bracketing tests under different kinds of light you have promised to go through, and shoot something real.
2. No polkadots seen yesterday @ T22 against the sun.
3. Smooth... Did I mention Smooth?
4. 6k There is really a difference
5. Gee. It is the real deal. And it just works.
6. Dragon is kinda fun... :)

Thanks!

G

Will Keir
08-30-2013, 01:14 PM
G,

Is there an IR filter built into your model?


Jarred sent me a Dragon to do a few tech tests.

Of which I will not be able to post much, unfortunately.
But getting to look a bit under the hood still makes me kinda excited, even without beans to spill.
Tom and Mark gets all the fun! But that is how it works.
I am happy just to be able to play a bit.

I can confirm, after a few hours of mainly shooting, and no post - except for quick peeks, that:

1. Dragon is something else. Just pure bliss. You really want to skip those charts and the list of exposure bracketing tests under different kinds of light you have promised to go through, and shoot something real.
2. No polkadots seen yesterday @ T22 against the sun.
3. Smooth... Did I mention Smooth?
4. 6k There is really a difference
5. Gee. It is the real deal. And it just works.
6. Dragon is kinda fun... :)

Thanks!

G

Will Keir
08-30-2013, 01:15 PM
+1

..
You are in one of the most beautiful places I have seen Gunleik, you need to show us some of that beauty... ;)

Will Keir
08-30-2013, 01:20 PM
Sanjin has come a long way since his ban on RU. Glad we helped to bring you back and glad to have ya.


https://sphotos-a-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q81/1235363_10151832806895126_224920680_n.jpg

Andy Roberts
08-30-2013, 01:21 PM
So, Sanjin you have one too?? I'll be darn!

That seems to be a shot of Gunleik that Sanjin probably grabbed from FB or something.
That photo is Gunleik for sure, not Sanjin. You guys are funny.

Sanjin Jukic
08-30-2013, 01:34 PM
That seems to be a shot of Gunleik that Sanjin probably grabbed from FB or something.
That photo is Gunleik for sure, not Sanjin. You guys are funny.

I'm still using Foveon probably Dragon next year when I'll get a place in the line...!!!

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/RED/_SDI1186_DxO_900px.jpg
Auto-portrait with Venice & Sigma DP1 Merrill Foveon in the mirror

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sanjinjukic/9632554634/

Will Keir
08-30-2013, 01:39 PM
I was lead to believe Sanjin was the one taking the photo.


That seems to be a shot of Gunleik that Sanjin probably grabbed from FB or something.
That photo is Gunleik for sure, not Sanjin. You guys are funny.

Andy Roberts
08-30-2013, 01:52 PM
I was lead to believe Sanjin was the one taking the photo.

Gunleik is in Norway and Sanjin is in Venice, Italy... Sanjin's Sigma is good, but it ain't that good. ;)

Hans Magnus Kvåle
08-30-2013, 04:21 PM
Venice doesn't sound like a bad place to be either! Gunleik that Dragon suits you better than the cigarette ;-)


Gunleik is in Norway and Sanjin is in Venice, Italy... Sanjin's Sigma is good, but it ain't that good. ;)

Gunleik Groven
08-30-2013, 05:02 PM
Thanks

I appreachiate all the comments.

I have 72 hours to shoot myself through the charts and lenses I can mass up.

If RED allows, I might be able to share some.

But comparative tests is unfortunately not on my plan, just now.

G

Raphael Varandas
08-30-2013, 07:42 PM
Go Gunleik, you blood bastard :)
Cheers from Brasil


Jarred I need one too to shoot some beautifull girls :)

Pablo Moreno
08-30-2013, 09:00 PM
I was going to ask for some skin tones Gunleik, but in your case, is an understatement, he he!. Looking forward to see what you have, Cheers.

Will Keir
08-30-2013, 10:32 PM
I hear where you are coming from, but really... You are one of the best people to do a comparative test.



But comparative tests is unfortunately not on my plan, just now.

G

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 12:09 AM
BTS

Cast and crew...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/993397_10151833664840126_1366767856_n.jpg

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 12:48 AM
Couple of DR/signalhandling shots, out of RCX.

I will point out what I find interesting in them...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1265394_10151833687905126_97691028_o.jpg

A bit like the shot from yesterday, but with a person in it.

Creamyness and un-distortedness is what gets me here.
Not having to worry about artefacts when pushing the sensor beyond the range.

And as a by-the-by

Did not use DRX to get there.

Sun is in the upper right corner over the forest

25mm masterprime

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 12:53 AM
Ok... If you look for noise in the blue channel in thisone, you will find it! ;)

And that only makes sense. There is no blue light in the gass-lights hanging there. It is bound to be noisy.

This was one of the first testhots I did, and I discovered through this that backfocus was slightly off, so sharpness is an issue, too.

16mm ultra @ 1.9

BUT

I dig the lowlight textures, even though lighting conditions are kinda unforgiving and camera-breaking.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1053158_10151833688030126_1905931642_o.jpg

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 01:03 AM
Mia having breakfast and daddy eager to "just shoot" hahahaha

Redlogfilm is the only thing applied.

Sunny outside, no extra lights but the TV in the room

Signal all the way.

Again the 16mm ultra. Vignetting is "as expected".

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1172650_10151833698160126_1450861229_o.jpg

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 01:05 AM
And finally (for now)

Another 16mm Ultra shot.
Exposed for the highlights.

Overcast but in the direction of the sun

Notice how we still can see into the office-spaces in the block on the right.

That is all for now folks.

back to the charts.

Whoever gets a Dragon should feel happy

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1268090_10151833698120126_535091360_o.jpg

Casey Green
08-31-2013, 01:12 AM
Stunning range. Thanks, Gunleik!

Harcharan Singh
08-31-2013, 01:16 AM
Super.....

Harcharan

Phil Holland
08-31-2013, 02:05 AM
Shooting real wide! I love it.

Michael J Brennan
08-31-2013, 03:51 AM
If we can get into the habit of calling these tests "personal evaluations" the world will be a calmer place:)


More of a "lets see what she can do" type of guy...



Mike Brennan

Tommaso Alvisi
08-31-2013, 04:27 AM
personal evaluations

well said!

John Marchant
08-31-2013, 04:40 AM
If we can get into the habit of calling these tests "personal evaluations" the world will be a calmer place:)


More of a "lets see what she can do" type of guy...



Mike Brennan

Everyone should do their own tests. :)

Jeremy Torrie
08-31-2013, 05:14 AM
Couple of DR/signalhandling shots, out of RCX.

I will point out what I find interesting in them...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1265394_10151833687905126_97691028_o.jpg

A bit like the shot from yesterday, but with a person in it.

Creamyness and un-distortedness is what gets me here.
Not having to worry about artefacts when pushing the sensor beyond the range.

And as a by-the-by

Did not use DRX to get there.

Sun is in the upper right corner over the forest

25mm masterprime

Loving it Gunleik! What an incredible shot. Hard to be believe this is pulled from a digital motion picture camera...and soon we will have two Dragons in our hands. Canada needs some love!

Martin Stevens
08-31-2013, 07:21 AM
Great images Gunleik.

Thanks.

Brice Ansel
08-31-2013, 08:35 AM
Ok... If you look for noise in the blue channel in thisone, you will find it! ;)

And that only makes sense. There is no blue light in the gass-lights hanging there. It is bound to be noisy.

This was one of the first testhots I did, and I discovered through this that backfocus was slightly off, so sharpness is an issue, too.

16mm ultra @ 1.9

BUT

I dig the lowlight textures, even though lighting conditions are kinda unforgiving and camera-breaking.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1053158_10151833688030126_1905931642_o.jpg

OK thanks. :-)
B.

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 03:55 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1146394_10151834842080126_1039823074_o.jpg

I think they may have nailed the skin thingy.

... OK I will elaborate a bit on this...

If you want things to look natural...

Just light and shoot for natural...

I often do not really do that. But it seems to be quite possible with a Dragon.

Brandon J.F.
08-31-2013, 04:08 PM
That looks so good. Ultra primes again?

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 04:14 PM
THX.

Nope.

hafta go back to the charts, I guess.

But this thing is tempting for other shots.

What would your other glass guesses be?

Brandon J.F.
08-31-2013, 04:30 PM
What would your other glass guesses be?

Not sure, but it looks like older glass. It has a much more organic feel than what I've seen with Ultra Primes on my Scarlet.

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 04:31 PM
It is old.

Fun thing with Dragon is the smoothness that gives the real organic stuff from old (and new) glass even higher value.

the thing I really like about it is not the "extended DR" or the resolution, or the color fidelity, but the:
"Betterness" this all adds up to.

Dragon is just more inspiring fun.

As to the Glass.

I shot this with different glass, ranging From masters to... well not really masterprimes...

Was fun.

Terry VerHaar
08-31-2013, 04:43 PM
I can't decide if all of this Dragon stuff is getting me excited or depressed; both, really. I was all excited to trade my Scarlet in for Epic but now I know I am going to have to go the next step, too. Arggghhhh. LOL

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 04:47 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1150685_10151834909750126_1943492569_o.jpg

Did one more practical test on Practical Dragon, before I disciplined myself back to the charts.

But that is it.

from here until I have to give her back, I will go strictly into numbers.

Martin Stevens
08-31-2013, 05:04 PM
I must say Gunleik that these last two images look very film like.

Peter Strietmann
08-31-2013, 05:34 PM
But what about the skin tone? Kidding! Really don't go there. Looks good.

Gunleik Groven
08-31-2013, 05:53 PM
But what about the skin tone? Kidding! Really don't go there. Looks good.



Hahaha

It kinda works...

Brandon J.F.
08-31-2013, 06:06 PM
I must say Gunleik that these last two images look very film like.

Very much so.

Nick Morrison
08-31-2013, 06:52 PM
And finally (for now)

Another 16mm Ultra shot.
Exposed for the highlights.

Overcast but in the direction of the sun

Notice how we still can see into the office-spaces in the block on the right.

That is all for now folks.

back to the charts.

Whoever gets a Dragon should feel happy

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1268090_10151833698120126_535091360_o.jpg


This shot is so good it hurts

Corey_O
08-31-2013, 09:48 PM
Dragon is a "Depth Finder"

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 03:48 AM
Dragon is more...

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 10:26 AM
trying to sum what i see up in a few sentences....

and i am afraid i will not talk numbers.

i have never found the red cameras "hard to use" or "buggy", but...

dragon has the "it" factor.
the images just feel right. everything "just works".

i have thought of the time, some 20 years ago, when i got sponsored by drum workshop, and put my old slingerland drums to rest.
did not make me a better drummer.
but they gave me an incredible amount of options and control with the added fidelity and tonal possibilities.

Like going from a Yammy to a Backstein or Bosendorfer or Steinway

having shot for a few days now, i feel like i have met a friend i did not know i until recently, but when she has entered my life, it is no turning back...

have i shot comparative tests?

nope.

i have been more eager to find out what the dragon can do on its own, than how it measures up.
and it is indeed an inspiring tool!

as to direct comparisons with other cameras, i do not have the time, it is premature still and frankly not as interesting as it used to be.
i have shot the epic for a few hours and know what i would like to see in its successor. and in dragon i have yet to trigger any of the challenges i know from epic.

And then she adds with new possibilities...

Love it!

firmware and rcx have been stable, too

looking foreward to put my hands on the dragonized color science.

my guess is that will be a "new cam all over" experience.
i am not implying anything bad about the current, but have a feel that there is even more potential in there

dragon is just cool and sexy
And gentle and roaring

fun things

g

Michael Mayda
09-01-2013, 10:48 AM
Thank you for your images and commentary on your Dragon experience. Especially your observation that "dragon is just cool and sexy
And gentle and roaring". Sounds like a new cam yet again from our friends at Red. I am just waiting for my email...

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 11:17 AM
I hope I can get round to shoot some shareable stuff, too.

My good friend CF Wesenberg, Stills Photographer, was generous enough to loan us his office/studio for our tests.

He has been working around the clock on other stuff and was exhausted when I came to say thank you.

But Gunleik, you must shoot me!


100 mm Master @ 1.3.

Tungsten/lowlight.

I will put up 6k jpg files.

The masters are scary... :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/976552_10151836220250126_294701800_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1294450_10151836220440126_1028158749_o.jpg

I do so much "weird shit" to break my images, so I guess that if I am to share 6k, it has to be Masters material...
And stuff which is outside the goal of the test...

http://www.gunleik.com/6k.zip

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 12:02 PM
Finally (I expect these two shots to be the last I share from the test. And I do not do requests, I do photography/cinematography...)

These are the last kind of shots I have spoken with Jarred of sharing.

If Jarred gives the ok, I can give you 6k redlogfilm TIFFS of them

To me, technically, besides the skintones, these two shots tell me a lot about capacity, and what 6k is all about.

Colors
Dynamic Range
Highlight rolloff
Resolution

It is all in these two frames.
http://www.gunleik.com/6k_oslo.zip

Hope you enjoy!

Please do NOT post grades! ;)

These are also 6k 100mm Masterprime @ t 5.6 with 1.2 schneider ND and Schneider Pola.
NO IR filter.

Hope you nJoy!


https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1093894_10151836290745126_1210540144_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1150580_10151836290290126_1641133596_o.jpg

Blair S. Paulsen
09-01-2013, 12:08 PM
Not to sidetrack Gunleik's thread, but even when looking at these cityscapes on a small laptop screen it's obvious that there's more image information there. An excellent example of the power of super-sampling in high resolution digital acquisition - and a powerful answer to the question of why one would shoot, 4/5/6K for a 1080 deliverable.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers - #19

John Marchant
09-01-2013, 12:08 PM
Good stuff Gunleik!

1.2 ND definitely isn't an IR problem. 6K blows my mind on shots like these :)

António Fagundes
09-01-2013, 12:29 PM
Couple of DR/signalhandling shots, out of RCX.

I will point out what I find interesting in them...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1265394_10151833687905126_97691028_o.jpg

A bit like the shot from yesterday, but with a person in it.

Creamyness and un-distortedness is what gets me here.
Not having to worry about artefacts when pushing the sensor beyond the range.

And as a by-the-by

Did not use DRX to get there.

Sun is in the upper right corner over the forest

25mm masterprime

Looking very, very good. 1000 ISO?

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 12:30 PM
i shot mostly at 800, this, too

Dan Kanes
09-01-2013, 12:42 PM
It's all about "feeling" right? I think that is here in abundance!

Patrick Tresch
09-01-2013, 12:45 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1277417_10151832175280126_167633292_o.jpg

Hello Gunleik,

Thanks a lot for sharing these telling shots!
I was wondering if you see some excess of highlight saturation near to the white roll off? Is it due to the Beta REDCINE-X? Or RC3 or RLogFilm? Or is it me? ;-)

Thanks

Pat

Jon MIchael Puntervold
09-01-2013, 12:45 PM
I remember a post where Jim told us that Dragon could be compared to 65mm film. The cityscapes of Oslo you've posted reminds me of the IMAX-shots in Dark Knight. Quite exciting.

Terry VerHaar
09-01-2013, 12:45 PM
trying to sum what i see up in a few sentences....

and i am afraid i will not talk numbers.

i have never found the red cameras "hard to use" or "buggy", but...

dragon has the "it" factor.
the images just feel right. everything "just works".

i have thought of the time, some 20 years ago, when i got sponsored by drum workshop, and put my old slingerland drums to rest.
did not make me a better drummer.
but they gave me an incredible amount of options and control with the added fidelity and tonal possibilities.

having shot for a few days now, i feel like i have met a friend i did not know i until recently, but when she has entered my life, it is no turning back...

have i shot comparative tests?

nope.

i have been more eager to find out what the dragon can do on its own, than how it measures up.
and it is indeed an inspiring tool!

as to direct comparisons with other cameras, i do not have the time, it is premature still and frankly not as interesting as it used to be.
i have shot the epic for a few hours and know what i would like to see in its successor. and in dragon i have yet to trigger any of the challenges i know from epic.

firmware and rcx have been stable, too

looking foreward to put my hands on the dragonized color science.

my guess is that will be a "new cam all over" experience.
i am not implying anything bad about the current, but have a feel that there is even more potential in there

dragon is just cool and sexy
And gentle and roaring

fun things

g

I think this says more than any numbers could.

Andy Roberts
09-01-2013, 01:00 PM
100 mm Master @ 1.3.

Tungsten/lowlight.

I will put up 6k jpg files.

The masters are scary... :)


Beautiful Gunleik.

The Camera Data in Photoshop says: Epic-X S/N 102-974-FA5

I wonder if in upgrading the sensor, this camera's metadata wasn't changed to say Dragon rather than X. Not a big deal, just curious.

I'm sure the mono is a great camera, but for any monochrome that I'd ever do, this is spectacular.

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 01:01 PM
Hello Gunleik,

Thanks a lot for sharing these telling shots!
I was wondering if you see some excess of highlight saturation near to the white roll off? Is it due to the Beta REDCINE-X? Or RC3 or RLogFilm? Or is it me? ;-)

Thanks

Pat


In this shot THAT is my fault. Not the cam

it is just that I pushed the contrast to exaggerate what happens in here. NOT due to any camerafault!

G

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 01:02 PM
Beautiful Gunleik.

The Camera Data in Photoshop says: Epic-X S/N 102-974-FA5

I wonder if in upgrading the sensor, this camera's metadata wasn't changed to say Dragon rather than X. Not a big deal, just curious.

I'm sure the mono is a great camera, but for any monochrome that I'd ever do, this is spectacular.


I would not know...

John Marchant
09-01-2013, 01:10 PM
Metadata in RCX says Dragon for me, but not in the EXIF when uploaded as JPG stills. Bound to be just beta stuff with RCX. Monochrome identifies itself correctly in EXIF despite being very niche :)

Bill Anderson
09-01-2013, 01:15 PM
The important thing is that we acknowledge that this isn't by the "numbers" or tests to end all tests; but even at this stage - thanks to the great work done by our front line - it doesn't take a scholar to see the potential in Dragon, and know that Jim, Jarred, Graeme and Co. have delivered on their promises, and then some. And they made some hefty promises. ( :

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to show us Dragon images and shared their thoughts.

Les Hillis
09-01-2013, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the pictures and descriptions Gunleik. Can you say whether the tech testing you've been doing for RED is for their internal use only, or is it more like shooting reference or demonstration material that might be made public in some way in the future? Just want to know if it's something to keep an eye out for.

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the pictures and descriptions Gunleik. Can you say whether the tech testing you've been doing for RED is for their internal use only, or is it more like shooting reference or demonstration material that might be made public in some way in the future? Just want to know if it's something to keep an eye out for.


I really would not know.

I just appreciate the chance to try to contribute in my small ways.

Patrick Tresch
09-01-2013, 01:32 PM
This Oslo shot is incredible!

We can navigate in it like if it was taken with a 6x6 camera on 50 asa. I was looking for white and black areas. There are none... perhaps under the bridge... but we still see the pillars...!
I was wondering if it is Jpeg compression or R3D, we can see some aliasing. Would love to play with the R3D. Gunleik did you remember wich compression you used?

Thanks

Pat

BTW Oslo panorama should become the camera testing site!

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 01:35 PM
Blame everything on me or jpeg!

If you go 1:1 pixel +

Expect jpeg artifacts!

It is shot and developed at 800 BTW

John Marchant
09-01-2013, 01:42 PM
Despite the excellent glass I think there's a little CA? ...which could be taken for aliasing I guess...

Les Hillis
09-01-2013, 01:46 PM
I really would not know.

I just appreciate the chance to try to contribute in my small ways.

No worries. Hope you get to play with the Dragon sensor again in the future.

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 01:48 PM
Despite the excellent glass I think there's a little CA? ...which could be taken for aliasing I guess...

I think you are right!

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 01:48 PM
No worries. Hope you get to play with the Dragon sensor again in the future.


Hahahahahahahaaha!!!!!!

SO DO I!

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 02:15 PM
Ah... saw that question just now;

HDRx is alive and kicking....

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 04:28 PM
OK.

I get a lot of questions on lowlight performance.

And I shoot most of my stuff at 800/5600 (also for this test)

But here is what I guess is a decent example on what to expect.

Lit with fluorescent light in my hall... BAD lighting conditions, that is! ;)

Master (65, I think) @ 1.3

1st is @ 800/5600

2nd is WBed with the picker to 2644 and tint -14 at 3200 ISO, thus pushed 2 stops.

You be the judge of that...

Both are straight out of RCX and only correction is WB/ISO

Just used Lightroom to transcode to jpg.

;)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1172375_10151836716750126_619753482_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1278102_10151836716620126_1390258727_o.jpg

NOW I am done posting images...

Eric Branco
09-01-2013, 05:44 PM
Bananas.

Chris Luker
09-01-2013, 06:41 PM
Really making me look for enough $ to upgrade my Epic here... Thanks Gunleik!

John Brennick
09-01-2013, 06:50 PM
Hey Gunleik, awesome stills. Would it be possible to post that last one as a 6K tif or dpx? That is just bonkers. I'm interested in seeing the noise pattern in there. It looks gorgeous. Thanks so much for being so active and your stills are some of the most breathtaking stills I've seen posted. I love your passion for the old lenses.

Best,

-John Brennick

Phil Holland
09-01-2013, 07:17 PM
Just looked at the full resolution JPGs of that cityscape. Lot's of good stuff in there.

Eric Santiago
09-01-2013, 09:29 PM
I can't decide if all of this Dragon stuff is getting me excited or depressed; both, really. I was all excited to trade my Scarlet in for Epic but now I know I am going to have to go the next step, too. Arggghhhh. LOL

For me its something to look forward too :)

Enjoying my early career with my Scarlet.

I will someday have a DRAGON in my clutches...or is the other way around ;)

Medavoym
09-01-2013, 09:52 PM
Just looked at the full resolution JPGs of that cityscape. Lot's of good stuff in there.

Care to expand on that?...

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 10:21 PM
Just a quick update as to the requests...

No TIFFs or DPXs

None of the testmaterial

No comparative stuff

No numbers.

Have fun with these teases! ;)

Have patience sayeth the Lord.

It will all come in due time. Not necessarily from me! ;)

Phil Holland
09-01-2013, 10:24 PM
Care to expand on that?...

Just did some cropping, re-sizing, and sharpening experiments to down sample to 4K. That's all.

The real question for me with even these compressed jpgs is what do you want the final image to look like?

Not much else to say just yet, but I like that I can make them "real crispy" and hold/reveal that detail. These cityscapes sort of show just that.

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 10:30 PM
Just did some cropping, re-sizing, and sharpening experiments to down sample to 4K. That's all.

The real question for me with even these compressed jpgs is what do you want the final image to look like?

Not much else to say just yet, but I like that I can make them "real crispy" and hold/reveal that detail. These cityscapes sort of show just that.

Those shots have no/little posttreatment for exactly the reasons Phil mention.

There is a bit of cast from the ND (which some people confuse with IR...)

I let it mostly stay, even though it is a simple tintcorrection.

But these images can quickly "go places"

sander kamp
09-01-2013, 11:08 PM
I suppose these are still beta test images as there is quite a bit of moire in the roofs and some false coloring on horizontal and vertical lines.

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 11:26 PM
everything beta!

do not worry ..

Gunleik Groven
09-01-2013, 11:34 PM
an important thing

this is a sneakpeek into the future that red has been generous enough to offer me and even let me share some things.
please comment to me offlist if you see baddies, and i bring it on, if i agree or do not have a user f*ckup as an explanation.

Behave here please, or i will take every image down... :-)

i have 24 more hours to shoot, and have had little time for post...for now, asume that all baddies are my fault, and enjoy the goodies.

this thing is the most entertaining and inspiring camera i have ever shot.



cheers

g

Julian Banos
09-01-2013, 11:43 PM
HDRx samples. Please.

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 12:33 AM
No requests.

before I run out for my last hours of shooting, I will quote myself.

Wrote this as a respons to a cameratesting discussion.

I stand by every word!

(and do not take this as the numbers do not play in Dragons favour, they really do by a huge margin. BUT, to me - userexperience is the biggie here!)


OK; Here goes.

I think it is fully possible to do comparative tests.
What bothers me slightly, is that usually I test for a specific production,
and the needs and what we check for varies highly, due to that individual
not camera-related variable.

It is more of a "what are we looking for" and a full matrix from price to
performance to need of support-functions, which decides which cam is right,
for f.ex. a long TV series.

"best" is not an absolute.
What gets us there the way we want, is more relevant.

One can check for DR, colormetry, over/under-exposure handling,
gradeability and keyability.

Then it is the "it" factor. How does this machine and all the tech data
play together and make it a camera-experience.
NOW.

There you go.
Measurability is lost.

What I also see is that even DR is a hornets nest. A lot depends on what
you shoot for, type of locations and what you are prepared for in the lowlights and highlights.
Finally; what kind of images does the productioon need?

And:
Is noise always and inherently bad?
I, for one, think not.
Introducing optical artefacts in the signalpath adds to the "livelyness" of
an image.
HOW it goes into black, is more interesting to me, than that something
eventually will be... black...
So what.
Black is good.
So is white...
how we get there can be good or bad, though.

Masterprimes are probably the most sterile lenses I have used.
They measure REALLY well.
And I love them.

BUT
I think of them as an optical starting point which can be shaped.

The same goes when I see a really technically "good" image.

Cool.
let us see how we can distort that.
it is called "creating an image"... ;)

But that also means that I like starting with "good" images, because that
gives me control.
And I am not a huge fan of "leaving it to post" (now, I know THAT is
another discussion. Just saying)

problem is that already the measurable things, like DR and
color-representation, do not tell us much about fidelity and user
experience...

I seriously think we will skip the numbers-game in a not-so-distant future,
as I think a few things will standardize, a camera-generation or two from
now.

And then, like in all instruments for artistic or scientific purpose, it
will not boil down to "theoretical potential" (which in my book equals
numbers), and the focus will be more on signalchains and how shapeable they
are.

I come from Music.

A Yamaha and a Steinway or a Bosendorfer or a Blutner or a Kawai are all great grand pianos with
the same tonal and dynamic register.
But they definitely do NOT sound the same.
And even though the Yammy is probably the most "uniformly and measurably
correct" sounding of them, from some theoretical perspective, I prefer the
tempers of the Bosendorfers, or Steinways...
And gee. They are even individual instruments that differ a lot in character...

It is not all in the numbers!

The number-tests had more of a purpose when new ground was broken. (as in; going from film to digital)

Now those numbers are not soooo interesting.
What they do, is.

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 02:25 AM
Quickie here...

Pixelpeeking is fun.
so is discovering oddities.

NOW, please go on sending me images, if you have questions, BUT

Do not scale beyond 100% on a jpg image and simultaneously expect to not see scaling and jpeg artifacts...

also remember that there is a bit of tonality difference between a 16 bit log image and an 8-bit jpg...

Kinda smiling and understand why some becomes post-supervisors, while others do not...

Keep em coming!

G

Detlev Eller
09-02-2013, 06:15 AM
Quickie here...
... BUT

Do not scale beyond 100% on a jpg image and simultaneously expect to not see scaling and jpeg artifacts...

al ....

;-)

Detlev Eller
09-02-2013, 06:16 AM
https://sphotos-a-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q81/1235363_10151832806895126_224920680_n.jpg


I was lead to believe Sanjin was the one taking the photo.



... I took it. On Gunleiks iphone.

Don´t know what Sanjin has to do with it.

Andy White
09-02-2013, 06:27 AM
I think Will just presumed it was taken by Sanjin as Sanjin posted the image.

Sanjin said a few posts later that it wasn't anything to do with him...

So I don't think it's anything nefarious, just a few crossed wires :)

Detlev Eller
09-02-2013, 06:48 AM
I think Will just presumed it was taken by Sanjin as Sanjin posted the image.

Sanjin said a few posts later that it wasn't anything to do with him...

So I don't think it's anything nefarious, just a few crossed wires :)

... well, i guess it is just me being sensible to people bashing a camera or company on FB .... that they have not been privileged enough to be close to.
I will not comment on anything more on that matter. i just think it is most disrespectful.

But i will say this:

The Dragon, is the most impressive image capturing device created. there is no way arguing around that. I´d say, to everyone interested in filmmaking and story telling, to stop the comparitive pixel peep show and fly the dragon .... it is absolutely awesome!!! .....


´nough said.


P.S.

Wouw!° .... was the most used word on many days of the shooting .... :-)

Shane Betts
09-02-2013, 07:23 AM
The images posted by Gunleik and others from this sensor say something very clear to me. Jim has always said that film would need to be replaced someday and that he, with the help of an amazing group of people, set about building a worthy replacement. Despite what some may have said over the last six years, the images from Dragon show me, at least, the high level of respect Jim and the rest of the Red team have for film and just how far they have come to build a worthy successor. This stuff reminds me so much of film images. Much more than anything I've ever seen from a digital sensor before. And at 6k and 15 or however many stops of DR and with a "native ISO" (outmoded expression) of 1600 or whatever the hell it is.

As Gunleik has intimated, it seems not so much about what it can do but the way it goes about doing it that is so impressive.

Maik Müller
09-02-2013, 07:32 AM
And i have to add that i really love what RED is doing here, giving the Dragon to carefully selected members of this community, letting them run their own tests without any supervision and even letting those people share their thoughts and some images. There is no better way to show how much you believe in your own product and your customers.

Thanks Gunleik for your sneak peak, you've earned to be part of this. And thanks RED for doing this, it's amazing to watch.

Hans von Sonntag
09-02-2013, 08:46 AM
Gunleik,

a gentle, open minded test without any "pro" allures.

Love the picture of your kind in the sleeping room particularly. Nice kid you have!

Developing raw in a log curve (RedLogFilm) to RGB gives the viewer the best feel of what the camera/sensor is doing.

I don't want numbers, never had them in my film-times.


Warm Regards, and thanks for the tease!

Hans

Mick van Rossum, NSC
09-02-2013, 10:36 AM
So Gunleik, will you be at the Oslo Digital Cinema Conference this weekend ? Would be nice to meet up.

Björn Benckert
09-02-2013, 11:46 AM
Would be great to see an image from the dragon that did not look good, super under exposed tungsten or such. Like a whole forest lit by a shitty lamp or similar I really want to see how it looks when it hit's the floor. Kind of like the shot of your kid but with a 1/10 of the shutter time of what you had in your shot, 1/20 of the shutter time would be great to see also. But I guess those pictures are not aloud just yet. Beutiful images are not really so interesting as we seen that from all kinds of cameras.

Bill Anderson
09-02-2013, 11:47 AM
Edit: Deleted.

Detlev Eller
09-02-2013, 12:17 PM
Would be great to see an image from the dragon that did not look good, super under exposed tungsten or such. Like a whole forest lit by a shitty lamp or similar I really want to see how it looks when it hit's the floor. Kind of like the shot of your kid but with a 1/10 of the shutter time of what you had in your shot, 1/20 of the shutter time would be great to see also. But I guess those pictures are not aloud just yet. Beutiful images are not really so interesting as we seen that from all kinds of cameras.

Isn´t it about, what we can do with it .... not the other way around?

Wicked. i am super excited about what it does! .... Mark Toia's white car did it, Tom Low's Elephants show it .... all clear.

The dragon makes beautiful images .... more of it ... LOL .... my feeling from the moments playing with it is, for many shooting styles, in available light, usable days just got a whole lot longer .... ;-)

In my book, i saw perfectly usable images, 6k@2000 for full 4k delivery ....

... and did i mention, "Wouw!" .... was the most used word around the camera ... ;-)

peace.
Detlev

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 12:25 PM
So Gunleik, will you be at the Oslo Digital Cinema Conference this weekend ? Would be nice to meet up.


I can drop in.
Have the kids and a gig AND cannot show any images at that event, but I can chat a bit.

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 12:26 PM
Would be great to see an image from the dragon that did not look good, super under exposed tungsten or such. Like a whole forest lit by a shitty lamp or similar I really want to see how it looks when it hit's the floor. Kind of like the shot of your kid but with a 1/10 of the shutter time of what you had in your shot, 1/20 of the shutter time would be great to see also. But I guess those pictures are not aloud just yet. Beutiful images are not really so interesting as we seen that from all kinds of cameras.


Yes I know. One learn a lot from shots like that.

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 12:28 PM
Gunleik,

a gentle, open minded test without any "pro" allures.

Love the picture of your kind in the sleeping room particularly. Nice kid you have!

Developing raw in a log curve (RedLogFilm) to RGB gives the viewer the best feel of what the camera/sensor is doing.

I don't want numbers, never had them in my film-times.


Warm Regards, and thanks for the tease!

Hans

THX

In my last 12 hours now... ;)

Robert Ruffo New
09-02-2013, 03:23 PM
Isn´t it about, what we can do with it .... not the other way around?

Wicked. i am super excited about what it does! .... Mark Toia's white car did it, Tom Low's Elephants show it .... all clear.

The dragon makes beautiful images .... more of it ... LOL .... my feeling from the moments playing with it is, for many shooting styles, in available light, usable days just got a whole lot longer .... ;-)

In my book, i saw perfectly usable images, 6k@2000 for full 4k delivery ....

... and did i mention, "Wouw!" .... was the most used word around the camera ... ;-)

peace.
Detlev

No, it's all about limitations -that's what defines gear, how often or not you cannot shoot or it lets you down. A bad camera only works under a narrow set of circumstances - a good one works under many different conditions, and nonetheless looks awesome. You could make awesome/perfect images with an Epic MX - you don't need Dragon for that - what changes is Dragon will make awesome images more often and with perhaps less money and time, less watts of lights, etc. Laforest Reverie was terrible for this. It made producers forget what you could **not*** do with a 5D. Same goes for the new Movi demos. Sure it sells 5Ds and Movis, but it also leads to disappointment and heartache.

Nick Morrison
09-02-2013, 04:19 PM
Gunleik how is Dragon reaction to ¨older¨ lenses like your Standards and Jenas. Im expecting it to be superb with high end glass like Masters. But I also love the idea that it´s added resolution and clarity can breathe additional life into older lenses and their wonderful characteristicts.

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 05:23 PM
Gunleik how is Dragon reaction to ¨older¨ lenses like your Standards and Jenas. Im expecting it to be superb with high end glass like Masters. But I also love the idea that it´s added resolution and clarity can breathe additional life into older lenses and their wonderful characteristicts.



Dragon + old glass = bliss

Björn Benckert
09-02-2013, 05:26 PM
Really want to stick our hawks infront of that lizzard.

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 05:40 PM
Really want to stick our hawks infront of that lizzard.



I would have loved that.

One more shot...

in 6,5 hours it is going back, and I am busted.

But would really have been lovely!

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 05:41 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1175103_10151838651470126_1230752358_n.jpg


Time to wrap....

(nope. This shot is not from Dragon, Sanjin or Detlev) ;)

Mark Pugh
09-02-2013, 06:08 PM
How about some car tail lights, shot against early morning light?

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 06:10 PM
I think I am kinda done...

3am here now, Have to drive people home and get up in time to get the equipment and Dragon back where they belong.

Been quite a ride...

Andy Roberts
09-02-2013, 07:28 PM
(nope. This shot is not from Dragon, Sanjin or Detlev) ;)

THAT was funny Gunleik.

Gunleik Groven
09-02-2013, 07:58 PM
No, it's all about limitations -that's what defines gear, how often or not you cannot shoot or it lets you down. A bad camera only works under a narrow set of circumstances - a good one works under many different conditions, and nonetheless looks awesome. You could make awesome/perfect images with an Epic MX - you don't need Dragon for that - what changes is Dragon will make awesome images more often and with perhaps less money and time, less watts of lights, etc. Laforest Reverie was terrible for this. It made producers forget what you could **not*** do with a 5D. Same goes for the new Movi demos. Sure it sells 5Ds and Movis, but it also leads to disappointment and heartache.

Tend to agree with a lot of this.
Know your tools and test for the conditions you will shoot in and best delivery-format you will deliver.

I will take the tests through a full workflow to delivery and check the result on 4k screens. So far I have only shot.
I tend to form opinions on practical experience.

My main reaction to shooting with it, was that it was a confidence builder.
When shooting within the framework of exposure-range I decided as good for my uses, so far - what I have seen has been good or has surpassed my expectations.

As to Bjørns request.
I have done shots like that.

As to comparisons. They will come, I am sure.
My Epic was out most of the time and I did not shoot anything to compare.
I could have spent these days shooting comparisons with Epic, R1, Alexa and F55.
BUT that was not the goal and also not what really interested me.
Practical use and application for me and what I do, was.
And frankly, I rarely think in numbers, even though I am capable of extracting a few, if that is my goal.
So I did a test which is more in sync with my thinking and daily userneeds.
Totally subjective and personal. And as far as I have seen, Dragon has responded wonderfully to that.
To me... That is kinda the most important part.
I can easier get more different feelings out of the dragon.
And the inherent gentleness of the beast, really attracts me.
I want it.

To me... well THAT matters the most. More than being able to shoot at "whatever" iso.
Have not even done the basic test of shooting the same frame at different ISO ratings to check if ISO is implemented differently in Dragon to previous RED cams.
Because it did not feel important.

I saw I can "push" it longer in post than I can the Epic. Without colors or resolution getting major hits.
In the example I posted, I pushed 2 stops.
But mind you. The picture was NOT without contrast at 800.

Give her something to work with, she roars.
but without light and contrast, I pretty much see what I would have expected to see without light and contrast.



And today I have been shooting natural light day and night exteriors and odd light conditions int all day.

And I look forward to check what came out of that,

I tend to agree with a lot of Peters observations around exposure and range and fatness and what makes it so "fun and exciting", without having waded through all the material I shot. I think those are pretty solid for an excellent result.

I like lights, and think the Dragon does not mind it either.

It is cool to have tested a "yet not released" RED camera which over these days did NOT crash on me once, except when I did mean stuff to it to see what happened "if".

I have also seen what appears to be some cool new security-features, which I have not been able to verify or confirm, but I think will make life even more comfortable for Dragon shooters if what I observed is a repeatable behaviour.

All in all though, it was not the "new toy" thingy that got me and gets me when I watch in post. It is the "better instrument" feeling that gets me.
And THAT.
is a very comforting and reassuring and exciting feeling.

Really will be sad to see her go tomorrow.
I did not expect to connect so much with it, as I have done.
Dragon will be sorely missed. And I will use any chance to get to shoot it again.
Those who upgrade or buy a new, will be in for a ride.

Hafta sleep for a couple of hours.

Thanks to jarred, Brent, Graeme, Jim and all for letting me have a play!
REALLY appreciate that more than I can say!

Loved what I saw and see
Look forward to pushing it through the full pipeline to see what I can make of it.

Night!

Mathias Erichsen
09-02-2013, 10:41 PM
Thank you for doing these tests Gunleik! Really informative :)

Robert Ruffo New
09-02-2013, 10:52 PM
Thank you for your thoughtful and useful feedback Gunleik. I like how you approach things.

Nick Morrison
09-03-2013, 12:53 AM
Thanks Gunliek. Can't wait to see your video after you've "waded" through. Have fun. Get some rest!

Detlev Eller
09-03-2013, 12:56 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1175103_10151838651470126_1230752358_n.jpg


Time to wrap....

(nope. This shot is not from Dragon, Sanjin or Detlev) ;)

hehe ... love it ... :-)

Gunleik Groven
09-03-2013, 01:11 AM
Thanks Gunliek. Can't wait to see your video after you've "waded" through. Have fun. Get some rest!



THX Nick!

Not a lot of sleep yet, I am affraid.

This being a pretty small crew... hahahaha... I am now in the check-in mode, to try to make all, including RED, that have generously contributed to the test with equipment and support happy they took part.
FedEx...

paperwork

(Now, where is that small screw...)

LOL

But I will have to get there within the next day (sleep that is). The last week has been pretty much around the clock.

Detlev Eller
09-03-2013, 01:11 AM
No, it's all about limitations -that's what defines gear, how often or not you cannot shoot or it lets you down. ...

Well, i guess ... different approaches to different people with different brains to different mindset to different outcome.

Gunleik & I had many discussions about that over the years ... and I guess, it's fair to say that each approach is valid ....

I just think, it is completely pointless to post this stuff about an - for the most part - unavailable camera .... since the measures for limits are defined on a personal level ....

I have not found any.

I love the dragon.

I was delighted, as others, with what it does.

I do only care, to get a good, story telling picture. lot's of them.

Dragon is a tool delivering these, for me.

There.

:-)

Gunleik Groven
09-03-2013, 01:41 AM
Cool.
THX for the help and support!

I look forward to see what you can make out of the natural-nightshots in the forest we quickly looked at together on the verge of leaving, when you get a chance to play with them in RCX.

Detlev Eller
09-03-2013, 01:49 AM
Cool.
THX for the help and support!

I look forward to see what you can make out of the natural-nightshots in the forest we quickly looked at together on the verge of leaving, when you get a chance to play with them in RCX.

... well, ... no direction or composition or story there .... LOL .... just tickling the camera with the little bit of light left, while bringing it out of the woods ..... ;-)

so, I am curious to see, what happens when I'll eventually fly the dragon in the Berlin streets & underground ...

there ain't no stopping.

:-)

Gunleik Groven
09-03-2013, 02:49 AM
Cool!

John Brennick
09-03-2013, 02:52 AM
Hey Gunleik, was hdrx available and activated on the camera when you had a chance to test it? and if so, did you try it? Just curious!

Gunleik Groven
09-03-2013, 02:53 AM
Not sure. Thought I saw it, but did not use it, and maybe I remember wrong actually.

John Marchant
09-03-2013, 03:55 AM
You may be on a different build from me, but currently HDRx is not on my camera.

Antoine Fabi
09-03-2013, 04:46 AM
Thanks A LOT Gunleik for sharing!

All of your images speak loud.
The shot with Mia having a breakfast...
...i look at the windows...WOW!!! Incredible DR!
What a fantastic and natural looking image!

Also, i saw that you used no IR filtration on your Oslo photos even with ND1.2 plus a pola.
Do you think that we could use only normal NDs without Hot Mirrors up to ND1.8 ?

Thanks!

Antoine

Gunleik Groven
09-03-2013, 07:24 AM
I shot with up to ND .9 + .6 + pola

No IR issues I have seen, but then again, I am still running back with equipment.

On the other hand, I think some confuse ND tinting with IR pollution, sometimes, as they can resemble each other in some ways at first sight.

But no IR problems.

I guess John would be able to comment on that.

John Marchant
09-03-2013, 07:42 AM
I'm part way through my IR testing. At first look IR is just no longer an issue. Very well controlled. I'll post more when I finish up 'the science bit'... which involves a hilarious contraption I won't go into LOL.

Antoine Fabi
09-03-2013, 08:08 AM
Thanks Gunleik and John!

Very much appreciated.

Antoine

Hans Magnus Kvåle
09-03-2013, 09:31 AM
Thank you for a great effort guys!

John Marchant
09-03-2013, 11:57 AM
More on the IR thing here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?104917-Dragon-in-the-UK&p=1252259#post1252259

Antoine Fabi
09-03-2013, 07:34 PM
Wow!!!!!

Just watched your tungsten IR results...
This is amazing.
Back to good old NDs :)

Thanks for sharing John!

Antoine

Gunleik Groven
09-04-2013, 10:36 AM
Running through some hours of shots here at very different lighting conditions, and can only practically confirm what John has tested for.

Dragon just works.

And is more.

Gunleik Groven
09-04-2013, 12:02 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1276540_10151842718230126_971758208_o.jpg

ND 1.5 + Pola.

Roberto Lequeux
09-04-2013, 12:04 PM
Gunleik, thank you so much. Looking forward to seeing more when you get a chance to post it

Gunleik Groven
09-04-2013, 12:08 PM
Except for the IR or not thingy, just look how creamy and "un zitty" the highlights are.

Envy.... :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1276540_10151842718230126_971758208_o.jpg

Matt Ryan
09-04-2013, 12:23 PM
How is the sharpness Gunleik? At 1:1 is it slightly sharper than MX at 1:1?

Gunleik Groven
09-04-2013, 12:24 PM
Depending on glass...

THIS is from supers. They are smooth. Not tack sharp

masters are scarysharp...

Phil Holland
09-04-2013, 12:30 PM
Nice. Really, really nice.

This is a straight 1.5 ND + polarizer correct?

Gunleik Groven
09-04-2013, 12:45 PM
Nice. Really, really nice.

This is a straight 1.5 ND + polarizer correct?

it is actually straight 0.9 + 0.6 + pola

all schneider

superspeed @ 5.6+

Björn Benckert
09-04-2013, 01:29 PM
Nice it's so good so it looks like a Vray 3D render :)

Gunleik Groven
09-04-2013, 01:31 PM
Hahahahahaha

But when you look at the shadows, you see where the sun hits... :)

It is pretty cool this thing

Björn Benckert
09-04-2013, 01:44 PM
Hahahahahaha

But when you look at the shadows, you see where the sun hits... :)

It is pretty cool this thing

Yes the ray tracing looks really good, how many samples did you use :)

Martin Stevens
09-04-2013, 02:09 PM
it is actually straight 0.9 + 0.6 + pola

all schneider

superspeed @ 5.6+

What ISO?

Gunleik Groven
09-04-2013, 02:33 PM
What ISO?

I ended up shooting at 800 mostly. Tons of headroom both ways. Me like...

Then I could just push in post, but if I had "an image" at 800, I knew I could.

Justin Kirchhoff
09-04-2013, 05:23 PM
Except for the IR or not thingy, just look how creamy and "un zitty" the highlights are.

Envy.... :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1276540_10151842718230126_971758208_o.jpg

Very smooth and creamy....mmmm mmmmm.

Gunleik Groven
09-05-2013, 08:34 AM
Aiii. Got the chance to start grading a bit today.

wohaaaa

This thing is different

In good ways!!!

Even though this was rushed through RCX on a tight schedule on a bad monitor...

Blasted!

Gunleik Groven
09-05-2013, 08:41 AM
Ouch guys, I miss this thing already...

Martin Stevens
09-05-2013, 10:16 AM
Ouch guys, I miss this thing already...

Sad.

:(

Brice Ansel
09-05-2013, 10:38 AM
Except for the IR or not thingy, just look how creamy and "un zitty" the highlights are.

Envy.... :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1276540_10151842718230126_971758208_o.jpg

Damned Gunleik!

Gunleik Groven
09-05-2013, 11:35 AM
haha

it is sorta fun to play with...

Brian Gottschalk
09-06-2013, 12:31 AM
Thank you very much for your contributions Gunleik, they are very much appreciated!

Gunleik Groven
09-06-2013, 01:02 AM
I guess there might come a day where I can put out a bit more.

Matt Ryan
09-06-2013, 01:21 AM
I guess there might come a day where I can put out a bit more.

cameras are already shipping right? ;)

I think it's time to share some more lol

Gunleik Groven
09-06-2013, 01:30 AM
cameras are already shipping right? ;)

I think it's time to share some more lol

Sure.


I still had a proto, so I think things could still be different on the final.

I will play it with RED, and I still have to work through it, but I guess that in a week, roughly...

Gunleik Groven
09-06-2013, 05:40 AM
Will just post it here, too.

But. It looks like will attend IBC 13th - 17th.
And I might bring a little 4k something to show curious people and some files and stuff to discuss for the curious.

If interested in hitting up, please mail me at

gunleikgroven at gmail dot com or pm me here.

All plans are not set, but I will try to attend as much relevant things as I can.

Cheers

G

Gunleik Groven
09-06-2013, 03:51 PM
Hm... vent back to work on some Epic images today...

Nope.
It is not imagination...

Dragon really is THAT much better.

Gunleik Groven
09-07-2013, 02:57 AM
I understand the hunger for footy as much as the next man.

And I also hope that you guys can respect that images will come...

However.
i managed to dig up a last shot which I think might be of interest and could be shareable.

This again with ND 1.5 + pola on an 18mm superspeed @ 5.6+

There is tons of headroom on both sides of the Dragons exposurerange in this shot (nope, I will not post a RLF of it, just take my word for it)

there are tons of green which could easilly have been messed up by IR (this is bright sun hitting the sea here)

And the skintones could easilly have been underexposed...

But this is Dragon.

the sun was "BRIGHT"

the skin is just working...

no bounce

no diff

The vignetting is "as expected" and just me being silly and wanting to shoot on the 18 anyway.

Compression is 13:1

nJoy!

And be peaceful.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1233293_10151847771090126_67120829_o.jpg

TD Wood
09-07-2013, 03:28 AM
Wonderful!!
Amazing images, Gunleik. Many thanks.

Detlev Eller
09-07-2013, 04:24 AM
everything beta!

..


hehe ... :-)

Matt Gottshalk
09-07-2013, 04:25 AM
Gorgeous.

Nils Ruinet
09-07-2013, 04:31 AM
That one's amazing ! Hard to believe that there wasn't a reflector somewhere in the front.

Gunleik Groven
09-07-2013, 04:46 AM
No reflector and her face is on the shadowside (look at where the shadow falls) while the sky has extra headroom. As does the darks. If I wanted I could make the forest in the background "hyoerreal". I am just not into that.

That said, the concrete reflects of course and gives some polite fill.

Vadim Bobkovsky
09-07-2013, 05:22 AM
Dropped it in Photoshop and did a slight curve, boom literally smooth as butter out of the box Alexa-like or film-like (whatever you call it) shot. To think that this camera is shooting not 3K-ish image, but IMAX-worthy 6K motion pictures, ready to be delivered in pristine 4K both for theaters and 4KTVs. Holeee guacamole!

Patrick Tresch
09-07-2013, 06:09 AM
The good thing is that it doesn't have the HDR look.
It's beautifull to see that the floor bounce naturally decrease from the foot to her face. No crazy curve to bring all the highlight and low light info in one artificially composed picture!

More than mesured dynamic range the natural distribution of DR is the big ++ for me shown in this picture.

Thanks Gunleik.

Pat

Gunleik Groven
09-07-2013, 06:24 AM
Unless you go and look a bit at what happens in the vignette, this shot is by far not the most challenging DR wise I have from the Dragon. I do not hit the top or the bottom.

It is a DR challenging shot in some ways, but that is more as what fidelity is kept in the skintones and shadows, despite keeping the top of the exposure well within range without really trying to push it in any way.

I mean, usually I do not shoot to kill a cam.... ;)

And even though it is good to know that you can do that, too, it is kinda cool to look at what is "effortless".

and on the Dragon, this shot is... effortless. I know a few other cams for which this would have been "a stretch".

Even when you look at the vignette, you see that there is "more" before it hits the hard edge of the lens.

Dragon is simply "more".

Phil Holland
09-07-2013, 10:19 AM
The tonality range looks nice and smooth on that image to my eye. Really like what's going on with those specular highlights on the water too. Nice.

Justin Kirchhoff
09-07-2013, 12:39 PM
That image is pure bliss.

Detlev Eller
09-07-2013, 01:00 PM
...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1233293_10151847771090126_67120829_o.jpg


No reflector and her face is on the shadowside (look at where the shadow falls) while the sky has extra headroom. As does the darks. If I wanted I could make the forest in the background "hyoerreal". I am just not into that.

That said, the concrete reflects of course and gives some polite fill.






... I am going to love .... and love ... and love .... that dragon ... :-)

Roberto Lequeux
09-07-2013, 10:46 PM
Dragon is a dream come true

Beautiful shot Gunleik

PatrickFaith
09-07-2013, 10:55 PM
I just love the shot of the woman on the pier, reminded me of the movie "Summer with Monika" shot by Gunnar Fischer. I really enjoyed reading this thread.

Nick Morrison
09-07-2013, 11:57 PM
Agreed...that pier shot....is FAN-tastic.

Gunleik Groven
09-08-2013, 12:26 AM
After messing a bit around ind post:

This is not an "upgrade" of the Epic.

this is a whole new cam in a familiar case.

Gunleik Groven
09-10-2013, 11:47 AM
Finishing in 4k from 6k now, is a bit like it was finishing in 1080 from 4k some years ago.

You mostly have to scale your thinking. Especially as I (at least) cannot go RAW online ATM.

But the RAW files play incredibly well on minuscule hardware and are incredibly fun to work with.

Sweet...

Thursday I will hopefully have a chance to watch a bit of 4k screenings from what I have been working on...

Sweet...

Gunleik Groven
09-12-2013, 06:40 AM
seeing stuff in 4k in a cinema is... good