What if your Red got stolen?

[Markus Rave]

I was wondering what would be a worst case scenario and how a solution could look like. I really appreciate your guesses and also more appreciate how the Red team thinks about this.
I assume you are close to a production or even worse in one using your own Red One. What if the camera got stolen or drowns in a lake? Also assume you can proove it was stolen by presenting a police report. Now you are dead and out. Ordering a new camera means standing in line for another 6 months at least. Renting one will probably blow your budget. I also assume all your collegues owning a Red can´t give you theirs because they are producing themselves.
I think in a case like this there should be a possibility to jump in line right away and get a new camera from Red right away. I would take a serial one number further from the one I have to save the story. I guess everyone else wouldn´t mind acting like that. Or would you? Has Red thought about this? Is there a masterplan already? I know you guys are building service around the world to ensure solutions in this case. But how does the world turn before this happens?

Any thoughts?

Markus

[Dylan Reeve]

I suspect RED would handle such requests on a case by case basis. If you lost a camera in the middle of a feature shoot, I think none of us would be surprised if RED found a way to get you up and running again quickly - whether it meant jumping you ahead of the crew, or loaning you a test camera...

Of course, you can't count on anything - so you'd better be damn careful with your camera.

[James T Mather]

I guess if you lose it - hard luck - Moral: Don't give it to strangers or go swimming with it.

[Wes Printz]

I can't see a reason anyone would get any preferential treatment over any one else. I know of a few prominent clients waiting for their cameras just like every one else. I would imagine if there were some catastrophic event, you would be able to locate one to finish whatever project you are working on.

Cutting in line would not be fair to the people waiting 18 months to take delivery of their camera only to replace one someone lost. That's where the Insurance comes in to play, If you have the right coverage.

[Dylan Reeve]

I think a loaner is a more likely option - but you won't know until you ask, I guess.

[James T Mather]

ps: thats why i've ordered 2 cameras - having a camera go down and stopping production is a no-no. always have a spare in the truck..

[Jason Ing]

solution: rental.

[Barry Green]

(but as he said, the rental solution may blow his budget)

Maybe it's emergencies like this that the Red 1-100 cameras could be loaned out for? It's an interesting question because unlike just about any other camera out there, there's a long waiting list so a replacement wouldn't be easy to come by. That should be a short-term problem though; within a few months Red should be caught up with the backorders and their manufacturing capacity would then able to fulfill orders immediately. I thought Jim said they'd be caught up by about June.

[Nathan Buxton]

ya i think they have a loaner system for camera problems when it's in service..

the team could possibly make a simillar loan-out to someone in case of a stolen camera, but it would have to be the right people and the right circumstances. ie the red team would benefit from keeping this feature in production.

[Wes Printz]

the team could possibly make a simillar loan-out to someone in case of a stolen camera, but it would have to be the right people and the right circumstances. ie the red team would benefit from keeping this feature in production.


Would this not be preferential treatment? What makes Red Owner "A" any more important than RED owner "K"? Bottom line.. Have insurance to cover your losses, to keep your production going.

[Kreisky]

It would be very cool if you need a password to switch your RED on !
And if you could set a second password for short time user (rental).
Lets say 15 days ,and afther 15 days the password is not longer available.
but they could joust hack your Red and get a new password, or smash yor camera against the Wall to harm you !
It is a bad situation anyway if a criminal gets on your camera !
Get a decent deposit and insurance and it will be fine !
Bruno

[Lewis-M Soucy]

I dunno... I think a lot of us ordered this camera for independent filmaking, being able to run'n gun at will and control our creative environment and rythm... Losing a camera in the middle of a shoot, even insured, can be more dramatic under tight shooting conditions... I wouldn't mind someone got another camera before I get mine... And it's not like I'll have to wait an extra 2 years or something, is it?... And I wouldn't certainly not feel less important. I'd feel more important, if anything, to be part of that community that helps other fellow filmakers... The guy could have a regular cam number, like 4000 something, and get it now, before mister 1278 or whatever... For all I care, we'd not even notice?! Anyway, point is, if I drop mine in the Seine while shooting, even insured, the insurance is going to be a complicated path, and if I need urgent replacement, I damn sure won't want to wait 6 months, nor will any of you...

Whatever...

Or get a Sony!

[Kreisky]

thats true lewis, loosing a camera during shoot is bitter !
But a good producer thinks about this before he shoots a movie.
dont worry something like that doesnt happen much !
Did you ever dropped your laptop or any camera ? dont think so......

[Nathan Buxton]

it wouldnt be preferential treatment because they wouldnt be loaning out any camera they were going to sell anyway. do you think red doesnt keep any of their own cameras?

[Kreisky]

It is still better to loose or break a Red than a Sony cinema digital camera !
Im not talking about cine alta ! F23 or Genesis !
If you drop one of those, youll have a hard time finding a second one !

[Dylan Macleod, CSC]

If you get your Mac stolen, do you call Steve Jobs?

If you get your car stolen do you call up Honda?

If you get your ARRI 435 stolen do you call Germany?

I mean RED is different, and I am sure they would help "if they can", but queue jumping...forget about it.

They aren't your parents.

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com

[Jeff Coatney]

It would be very cool if you need a password to switch your RED on !
And if you could set a second password for short time user (rental).
Lets say 15 days ,and afther 15 days the password is not longer available.


That's a fantastic idea! That kind of thing could actually lower an insurance premium.

[Greg M]

(but as he said, the rental solution may blow his budget)



He should have insured his production.

[Kreisky]

That's a fantastic idea! That kind of thing could actually lower an insurance premium.

Yes but I have seen car alarm systems better than that !
Since we live in the Big Brother age, we should think beyond that !
The best would be the fingerprint thing,
that would work the best !
.......but if Jim likes this idea......I want a free Red.........

[Craig Bowman]

1. Have a back up plan. We arranged with the only other company in the area with a Red (so far) to back each other up.

2. Have insurance. We couldn't operate without it.

[Brent J. Craig]

It would be very cool if you need a password to switch your RED on !

It's been discussed here on RU. Al we need is another thing that can go wrong and tie up a shoot day! It would have to have a work-around exactly for this reason, hence it would be useless.

Why put a password on the $17,500 camera when the accessories and lenses on a film set are worth about 15 times that? You wanna password-lock the lens cases too? How about the $25,000 tripod head?

I would recommend just not having stuff stolen. That means that, yes, some poor schmuck has to unload the camera truck into the office after a 16 hour shoot day. No, they can't park it outside while they 'have just one beer' with the crew. If your dig deeper into many of the stolen camera stories, someone's stupidity is the root cause most of the time.

[Kreisky]

It would be very cool if you need a password to switch your RED on !
And if you could set a second password for short time user (rental).


I was talking about rental my dear.......
not what happens on any set. On set you should have hire someone taking care of security issues.
Bruno

[Pawel Achtel]

Moral: Don't give it to strangers or go swimming with it.

Hmmm...the only reason I buy this camera is to take it to the bottom of the ocean :blush:

Pawel
www.achtel.com

[Lewis-M Soucy]

If my Mac was stolen, of course I WOULDN'T CALL STEVE JOBS! But I wouldn't have bought it from Steve Jobs either! I would have bought it from a store that has MANY and I'm sure would sell me one RIGHT AWAY if I was in real deep shit and about to lose my life or something... Who's asking Red to change our diaper? Being understanding and helpfull is something different... I would just assume someone there would have a brain and juge the situation...

The original question here was pretty interesting... And deserves a clever discussion... This can happen, and not always is it because someone is an idiot... And few of us call the president if we loose our passport!...

"Oh your wife is dying? Get in line, my finger is broken and I was here first! You should have gotten a life insurance for her!"...

Anybody drops theirs in the toilet can have mine! I'll wait a bit more, listen to some Rick Astley, I dunno, do something else...

[Nathan Buxton]

if quentin tarantino bought a red and had it stolen during production of kill bill 2.... he would have a new red very soon afterwards

[Lewis-M Soucy]

There you go Nathan! ;)

[Brent J. Craig]

I would hope it would be just like if you got a milkshake at McDonalds and spilled it on the way out the door. If you cry loud enough and throw a big enough tantrum the nice people behind the counter would give you a free refill.




Tarantino? Huge tantrums.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Hope so! Been surfing for a couple minutes... Seems no insurance covers milk-shakes...

[John V]

I would put the person through a Rick Roll...need that link

[Markus Rave]

I started this thread because I was interested to see how this would be discussed. As Lewis said I will buy a Mac on every streetcorner. Not so with a Red. And if it´s for insurance (there is still an open question who insures non film non tape productions) we all will have one to replace stolen objects. So the question if I call Steve Jobs is not really the point. The question is how do Red owners feel about helping out. And if helping out in a case like this is maybe just stepping back one number in line it is still just a question.
I am pretty sure that if I would call Red in a case like this, they would try to help. Here I absolutely agree with Dylan. Still I did not say I want to step into the line and don´t want to wait. I also can´t see why a prominent person should not wait as we all do. Getting insurance does not solve the instant problem.
James, I would like to order 3 Reds. One to loan out, one to shoot and one for swimming. I like Barry´s very optimistic approach very much, too.
When I go to my rental house and they have a replacement there I will get it. Unfortunately they´ll get their Red a decade after I´ll get mine.

Anyway I am grateful for your thoughts.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Markus, your thread was very interesting for it brought up a very human question in this Red concept thing... Which is a unique thing happening in the film industry for the very first time. No gear has ever brought such hope, passion and complicity before, I'm sure... For some of us, it's a great way to access HD at low cost, cut down post fees in a quote, make better products for less, and for others, it's a way to access creation, one opportunity or decision that was in the hands of a recalcitrant money driven industry, always. Let's not forget that for some of us, it is also about art, and that is fragile, whether insured or not.

Jim is putting brushes in our hands.

Although, I absolutely do not agree with Dylan. Sorry man but that post of yours was just plain cynical, dry and cold. Didn't bring up anything constructive to the question but tell us "grow up people"... Which is not the point of that whole community thing to me anyway. I honestly don't want to be insulting here, but I'm sur you'll agree your post sounds pretty "stiff thinking"...

And trust me, Red ARE our parents, we ARE their infants! Something is happening here, there's other ways of seeing things, more important, less shallow... The concept of Red is for me a revolution, one of freedom of creation, one of accessibility, digital democracy...

THIS is what it's all about. We are not in the "Wallstreet 90's" anymore...

For whatever that means... (and yeah, Nathan cleverly depicted it out... Democracy is democracy until your Quentin Tarantino...) :D

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Oh and by the way Markus, beautiful website! very sober, elegant... Bravo!

(Don't get it stolen, Insure it!)

Metaphysical questions: can someone drop a website in the ocean? Is a website waterproof?

[Dylan Macleod, CSC]

I started this thread because I was interested to see how this would be discussed. As Lewis said I will buy a Mac on every streetcorner. Not so with a Red. And if it´s for insurance (there is still an open question who insures non film non tape productions) we all will have one to replace stolen objects. So the question if I call Steve Jobs is not really the point. The question is how do Red owners feel about helping out. And if helping out in a case like this is maybe just stepping back one number in line it is still just a question.
I am pretty sure that if I would call Red in a case like this, they would try to help. Here I absolutely agree with Dylan. Still I did not say I want to step into the line and don´t want to wait. I also can´t see why a prominent person should not wait as we all do. Getting insurance does not solve the instant problem.
James, I would like to order 3 Reds. One to loan out, one to shoot and one for swimming. I like Barry´s very optimistic approach very much, too.
When I go to my rental house and they have a replacement there I will get it. Unfortunately they´ll get their Red a decade after I´ll get mine.

Anyway I am grateful for your thoughts.

I think my comment was taken WAAAY too seriously. I'll put a few more "smileys" in there for you next time Lewis.

It is a very well documented fact that RED cameras are not readily available. Why then, would someone commit to a professional production with access to only one camera. This is bad planning. DO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN THAT SITUATION!

To ask RED to take responsibility for the fact that they don't have enough cameras to meet demand is unreasonable. That is not an "emergency" in my mind.

I am awaiting my camera, and if I were to get "bumped" I would suffer through loss of work just as you would for having your camera stolen.

I am taking RED around the world at the end of April and I am just now awaiting my tracking number. If a stolen RED "bumped" my delivery, I would be out a camera rental...but my reputation would be in tact and I'll still be shooting RED because I am working with a rental house that has RED's in stock.

I would not have suggested this camera if it all relied on only one camera.

For this shoot we need one camera. We are taking two. This is just common sense.

Even with that I will still look to REDUSERS around the world if I end up in Australia with two cameras down.

I understand what this post is about. My point is that RED is a camera sales company. I am sure they will help in an "emergency" if they can...It depends on how you define "emergency".

Sorry to offend...usually us Canadians our way more cautious...:sarcasm:

PS-Lewis if you are ever in need of a RED in Toronto, I am here for you.

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Hey Duncan! I pushed you in the ropes on purpose fellow Canuck (I'm from Montreal but live in gorgeous Paris!)... You've been RickRolled!... ;P

I've read a lot of your posts and I know (I assume) you sound like a great guy! (I say this 'cause my wife is Sco'ish too)...

I was just trying to see things out of the obvious commercial way... (I'm a bit of a rebel and not much into money)... And I love to shake that forum I find sometimes too nerdy or gay (although I'm here with you all with the same excitement)...

You have a Red in Paris anytime too man! And if not in use by me, it'll be free of charge (print this!) :D

All the best with your first shoot with your Red!

PS: rossbirkbeck needs a Red in the UK shortly and is in deep shit! Anybody wanna try theirs on his shoot? Or make a buck? I would but I ain't got mine... It's here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10696

[Dylan Macleod, CSC]

Hey Duncan! I pushed you in the ropes on purpose fellow Canuck (I'm from Montreal but live in gorgeous Paris!)... You've been RickRolled!... ;P

I've read a lot of your posts and I know (I assume) you sound like a great guy! (I say this 'cause my wife is Sco'ish too)...

I was just trying to see things out of the obvious commercial way... (I'm a bit of a rebel and not much into money)... And I love to shake that forum I find sometimes too nerdy or gay (although I'm here with you all with the same excitement)...

You have a Red in Paris anytime too man! And if not in use by me, it'll be free of charge (print this!) :D

All the best with your first shoot with your Red!

PS: rossbirkbeck needs a Red in the UK shortly and is in deep shit! Anybody wanna try theirs on his shoot? Or make a buck? I would but I ain't got mine... It's here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10696

Who's Duncan? :bleh:

Thanks Larry...I mean Lewis. :devil:

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Dylan!

You don't walk, you run!

I love you man!
:clown2:

[Lewis-M Soucy]

I'm sorry, my humor gets me in trouble sometimes... I won't do it again, promised!