three Nikkor zooms?

[tj williams]

I've tried to find three zooms to cover the range that stay open to 2.8 that have good optical quality, I don't know still lenses well and would like feedback about these from anyone knowledgeable. Thanks


NIKON Zooms that may work

AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED This tele lens will take out
vibration! Sells for about $1600+ I think it should be great for long lens
hand held or steadicam and mounted aerials.

NIKON AFS 17-35/2.8D ED IF Lens NEW*USA sells about $1500 the tests
convinced me.

Nikon Autofocus Zoom Lense 24-85mm f.2.8 sells about $300 this is the only Nikkor I could
Find in the intermediate range which had all rotary zoom etc. This is the
most doubtful for me. Can someone suggest a better option?

[Dominic Jones]

Just a quick heads-up on the VR tele zoom, TJ - the Vibration Reduction won't work on the Red as it's a non-powered F mount, so no auto/powered function from the lens, unfortunately...

I know Birger are knocking up an EF mount for the Red, so maybe you could talk to them about a powered F mount if it's something you feel is really important to you?

[J. Bernard Vallon]

Also, the 70-200 has no manual aperture ring. However, the previous generation, the 80-200, is also f2.8 and does (have the aperture ring). I've used both, and the glass is excellent on both.

[Ólafur Rögnvaldsson]

What about Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D ED-IF ?

[tj williams]

Dominic and Perfect thanks also good post on other thread by Birger eng.
I will see him at NAB it would be neat if the mount could power up the lens for stability on aerials and vibrating dolly shots with this longer lens.

So after considering the D for ability to also manual iris. These Three waddy think?

2nd list: Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF
Nikon 28-70mm f/2.8 AF-S
Nikon 80-200mm AF-S 2.8

[J. Bernard Vallon]

thats probably going to be my set...

plus the 60mm f2.8 nikon macro, one of the sharpest lenses ive seen and focuses as close as 2 cm, for less than $400

[Michael Hastings]

TJ

Wondering why you are pushing for new Nikons. Both Canon and Nikon Image Stabilized lenses will require a powered mount (the RED mounts are not powered)

There already exists a Canon EF mount with power, iris and focus. (see posts by Birgerengineer). Through a lot of posts over in the underwater and Why not Canon EOS threads, it seems that the mount for Canon lenses is already developed but also the Nikon's are more difficult to work with because instead of servo motors for both iris and focus, the Nikons use a mechanical pin - driven by the internals of the camera body - to actuate the iris making it substantially more difficult to create a mount for it.

Here are 3 zooms that cover superwide 10mm thru 200mm stabilized (stabilizer is 2 stage - you can select only vertical so you won't get pan lag.)

Canon Zoom Telephoto EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS Image Stabilizer USM Autofocus Lens $ 1,699.95

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=234444&is=USA

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM Autofocus Lens $689

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=351542&is=USA


Canon Zoom Super Wide Angle EF 17-40mm f/4L USM Autofocus Lens
$ 679.95
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=279582&is=USA




I've tried to find three zooms to cover the range that stay open to 2.8 that have good optical quality, I don't know still lenses well and would like feedback about these from anyone knowledgeable. Thanks


NIKON Zooms that may work

AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED This tele lens will take out
vibration! Sells for about $1600+ I think it should be great for long lens
hand held or steadicam and mounted aerials.

NIKON AFS 17-35/2.8D ED IF Lens NEW*USA sells about $1500 the tests
convinced me.

Nikon Autofocus Zoom Lense 24-85mm f.2.8 sells about $300 this is the only Nikkor I could
Find in the intermediate range which had all rotary zoom etc. This is the
most doubtful for me. Can someone suggest a better option?

[zak forrest]

why havent i read anything on the boards regarding this?

Nikon Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S DX Lens

http://www.epinions.com/content_247021538948

[tj williams]

Thanks Aqua those are great ideas also. I'm trying to stay with 2.8 lenses for regular shooting but for aerial work those would be great. I've copied them down on my initial budget list. The 2.8 70 to 200mm would be wonderful if Birger can support the power up. (I mean in a way that works on a set not from a computer etc..) We could shoot aerials across town, and the performance in wind and off jiggly supports would add greatly to our shots. It's not that much more money either!

I hope it isn't all that difficult to change mounts! My Eclair ACL changes them like a snap...

Perfect... the 60mm macro sounds cool also... I'm gonna be so broke!!!!

Zak cool lens extra zoom over 17/35 is G not D so I believe can't be manually irised. Is that right guys?

I've added this as I went looking at Canon/Zoom/Prime options? Directors used to Cine lenses expect coverage from the 17/18mm area out through at least 85mm in pretty fast lenses.

I started out looking for a set of SPEED lenses in Nikon mount as I already have some Nikon lenses. I discovered I couldn’t find anything available wider than 35mm that was faster than the 2.8 zooms. The 17 to 35mm Nikon zoom tested very well on the forum Thanks to our own lens tester...Evin.

I looked at some other tests and became convinced that it will be hard to tell the zooms from the primes. I think this is especially true since if I have all zooms and use them as variable primes there will be none of the matching problems at all that everyone is used to between speeds and the 10/1. This is way different than the Cine world. Therefore I started looking for a set of faster zooms 2.8 in Canon or Nikon mount. The Canon Zooms a little wider 16m rather than 17mm and more complete coverage no gap between 70 and 80mm as in the Nikon zoom set:

I got costs fm Bh unless I could find several examples on Ebay. In researching the Canon lenses I discovered it would be more nearly possible to get a set of speed lenses together. I’ve listed the ones I found below. Of course there are iris setting problems with any Nikon G lenses or many of my favorite Canon lenses. My hope here is that Birger engineering will have a mount with a controller. In any case using these still lenses even as variable primes is frought with disaster since the focus distances are so close together the average assistant will go nuts or scream and leave. So my hope to use them really rests on being able to focus and iris precisely, which means a remote control! These prices are all so close and inexact that probably best to say all options are around 4K The difference is that the zoom option covers wider and longer and the prime option is faster

Canon Zoom Set.

16 to 35mm 2.8 USML
28 70mm 2.8 USML
70 200mm USML
Canon set approx cost: $3800

Nikon Zoom Set

Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8 AFS
Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8 AF-S
Nikon 80-200mm F2.8 AF-S

Nikon Set approximate cost $4200

Canon Speed Prime Set.

20mm 2.8
24mm 1.4
28mm 1.8
35mm 1.4
50mm 1.4
85mm 1.8
(there is also a very expensive 85mm 1.2 which is not included here)
I could not find above 2.0 in longer factory prime lenses

Speed Prime Lens Set $4000

Strange primes for super wide
16mm Zenitar 2.8 $250
8 mm pelang 3.5 $250

Interesting shopping! For me right now, I'll wait and see what Birger offers.
The Canon option seems better to me than before if Birger can power up
long lens stabilization. Having somewhat less contrasty softer appearing images also appeals to me as appearing more filmic.

From a cheapness standpoint I do have this old 80/2002.8 Nikon zoom in manual...
20 to 35mm 2.8 $600
35 to 70 2.8 $500
80 to 200 $800

Total: $ 1900 if you bought them all. Now if only I can get a first asst that can work with it.....

[Dan Blanchett]

Zak, that lens does not have an aperture ring. But when the Birger mount is available (when?) you can probably use it.

[Dan Blanchett]

TJ, I'm probably going to go with two Nikon zooms (17-35 and maybe 80-200 if it tests out okay) and use a 50mm 1.4 to fill the gap. I already bought the 17-35. Of course, I may end up renting cine lenses for major projects, but it depends on how well these hold up.

Dan

[Andrew M.]

Here are 3 zooms that cover superwide 10mm thru 200mm stabilized (stabilizer is 2 stage - you can select only vertical so you won't get pan lag.)

Canon Zoom Telephoto EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS Image Stabilizer USM Autofocus Lens $ 1,699.95

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=234444&is=USA

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM Autofocus Lens $689

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=351542&is=USA


Canon Zoom Super Wide Angle EF 17-40mm f/4L USM Autofocus Lens
$ 679.95
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&A=ShowProduct&Q=&sku=279582&is=USA

I have these Canon lenses and they are very soft on 1080p resolution.
I did few tests and I can’t put my finger on it, if it is the color fringing or focus.
I do see clear sweet spots for focus but not even on the whole screen area.
EF-S 10-22 is good but then, once you go wide angle at 10 setting, I am loosing details.
Will not recommend it for anything but current material to be shown on HDTV.

[Ed Watkins]

Hi there, I'm not that used to 35mm still lenses, I mainly use Digital video cams with HD glass. For the Red I'm thinking of the following lenses, any comments?

Nikon Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D AF-S ED-IF
Nikon 50mm f/1.4D AF
Nikon 28-70mm f/2.8 AF-S
Nikon 80-200mm f/2.8 AF-S

Also, I shoot a lot of wildlife (mainly long distance, bears like to eat people) I saw this lens: Nikon 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D AF ED but I'm guessing the f-stop is just way too slow? If so, any recommendations for a long nikon zoom telezoom?

And finally for ND, any one have any experiences with Singh-Ray's Variable Neutral Density Filter (http://www.singh-ray.com/varind.html)?

[Dan Blanchett]

According to Evin's lens tests, you should be good to go with the 17-35 and 50mm (AI); not sure about the other two, although I'm also considering the 80-200.

[Michael Hastings]

If you go over to the underwater bubble users group you will find a lot of information on the Birger engineering mount for Canon EF lenses. The Birger mount allows not only the use of and control of iris and focus on these lenses but also allows use of the Image stabilization.

I know there are a lot of Nikon aficionados here but the Canon stuff is pretty good too and without getting into a lot of detail, they allow full control in a way that the Nikons don't. The Birger mount for the EF lenses is not something new, it has been used for several years in the industrial and scientific fields. It is being adapted to the Red setup - but the hardest part - the electronic interface and the EF bayonet mount were already done.

We have a particular need in the underwater world because it allows use of a 10-22 EF-S superwide lens, but the value of the Birger mount is there for all lenses and particularly where image stabilization is useful.

For EFP/documentary shooters the combination of the Birger mount and Canon EF lenses may be just as evolutionary/revolutionary as the RED camera itself. (The hollywood film type shooters probably will and should stick to the Arri, Zeiss, Cooke AND RED cine lenses)

You can search on BirgerEngineer or AquaVideoRed206 posts

Hi there, I'm not that used to 35mm still lenses, I mainly use Digital video cams with HD glass. For the Red I'm thinking of the following lenses, any comments?

Nikon Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D AF-S ED-IF
Nikon 50mm f/1.4D AF
Nikon 28-70mm f/2.8 AF-S
Nikon 80-200mm f/2.8 AF-S

Also, I shoot a lot of wildlife (mainly long distance, bears like to eat people) I saw this lens: Nikon 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D AF ED but I'm guessing the f-stop is just way too slow? If so, any recommendations for a long nikon zoom telezoom?

And finally for ND, any one have any experiences with Singh-Ray's Variable Neutral Density Filter (http://www.singh-ray.com/varind.html)?

[Finner]

What kind of control does the focus puller use to pull focus with one of the birger mounts?

[Michael Hastings]

The birger mount works with the internal motors so it could be remoted or obviously you can still use the manual focus ring or gear the manual focus ring with follow focus.

Iris on those lenses is only internal motor driven so you would have to use the control in some fashion - either at the camera or remote.

I wouldn't necessarily push this for regular hollywood style shooting but for budget minded indy or EFP/documentary style it has a lot of capability that you can't get any other way. Particularly the Image stabilization. Also easy remote operation if that is useful to you. Since focus and iris are driven by codes and there is lens feedback it may have usefulness in motion control as well.

By the way, we in the bubble blowers group would understand if you said we were all wet...



What kind of control does the focus puller use to pull focus with one of the birger mounts?

[Milan Nikolic]

My choice is:
Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF
Nikon 28-70mm f/2.8 AF-S
Nikon 80-200mm AF-S 2.8
RED 300 mm

[tj williams]

Ed,

I see a lotta guys shooting long lens sports stuff with the Canon 300 mm 2.8 in Nikon or Canon mount. quite a few around, you probably know but just in case.
I know there's a doubler so still at 600mm T4

Hi Dan,

Yea I've got about the same idea, although I wanto test the Canon lenses also. 16/35 70/200 partially because of the stabilization and partly because it may be more likely to be supported by Birger Eng. as they already have a canon mount and interface issues are the whole thing there. Nikon mount they are interested in developing is air ware at this point as far as I know (correction here?) I'm hoping to meet them at NAB, find out since they are not in a booth. To me the big deal to make still lenses work for anything is to be able to spread the movement (very limited) of the controls across a larger movement area so there is some hope of reasonable and repeatable focus pulls.

[Dan Blanchett]

TJ, given your particular needs, I understand your concerns and approach. I'm doing mostly narrative filmmaking, indoor scenes, etc, so stabilization is not as much an issue. I do have the RED zoom on reserve and that, depending on how that peforms (especially in low light), could be my workhorse and saving grace until RED makes a set of primes. But until it ships I need something to shoot with...

[chuck colburn]

Hey TJ,

I think that would be f5.6 probally around T6 or so

Chuck

[tj williams]

HI Chuck.... So you are losing 2 stops in a doubler?

[chuck colburn]

Hey TJ,

Yeah, about 2 stops in a 2x and around 1 in a 1.4 or 1.6x. This is assuming that they are being used for the same format on both sides (16 to 16, 35 to 35 etc.) and not being used to enlarge to a different format. In that case the light lost would be a bit higher.

Chuck

[wshultz]

I wish I'd seen this thread before I bought, but thankfully it confirms my choices. I picked up an entire set on ebay including:

Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8 AFS
Nikon 28-70mm f/2.8 AF-S
Nikon 80-200mm F2.8 AF-S
Nikon AF 85mm f/1.8D
Nikon AF Micro 60mm f/2.8D
Nikon Nikkor 50mm f/1.8
Nikon TC-14E II

I wouldn't have gotten all of them individually but it's rare to find a set of 6 lenses and a doubler together.

[Evin Grant]

That set will produce some very nice images. Be aware that the 28-70 shifts focus slightly as it zooms (Part of the design) so use it as a variable prime and try not to actually zoom during a shot.

[wshultz]

Thanks Evin. Good info! The 80-200 doesn't do that does it?

[Evin Grant]

No. It doesn't.