Red One connector "what is what"

[Anders Holck]

Just a little thread speculating on "what is what" on the connector sides of the camera.

http://www.holckowen.com/stuff/connections.jpg



Connector Pinouts


C) DC Out, GPI(VTR run), GPO(Tally)
Lemo Part FGG.0B.304.CLAD52
1.
2.
3.
4.

J) Balanced Audio Inputs
Mini XLR
1. Ground
2. Audio in (H)
3. Audio in (C)


G) HD-SDI Preview out, E) Genlock in, F) Master HD-SDI out
"1.0/2.3" coaxial Push/Pull connector


I) TC In/out Connector
Lemo Part FGG.0B.305.CLAD52
1. Ground.
2. LTC In.
3 ASCII in/out
4. nc
5. LTC out

[COLOR="Red"][B]L) B4 Lens connector

[Ace]

lol, love the intense colour matching excercise.

[Anders Holck]

Yes, isn't it fun :-)
Hope you aren't colorblind....

[Ace]

Yes, isn't it fun :-)
Hope you aren't colorblind....

I completely suck at those colour coordination games where you have to match the word to the colour. So i was having a bit of a hard time hehe.

RED BLUE

[Anders Holck]

Now updated for the colorblind...

[Jaime Vallés]

Could the mystery square connector be Firewire 800?

Thanks for the chart!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

That's what I was going to say too... I'm 99% sure it's a firewire port.

[Jarred Land]

Anders this is great.. once we correct the ports ill add this as a sticky.

there is no firewire on the camera, the square connector is an additional USB.. all other ports are correct.

[Anders Holck]

So one is a Standard USB and the other the Mini plug?

[Andrew M.]

Anders this is great.. once we correct the ports ill add this as a sticky.

there is no firewire on the camera, the square connector is an additional USB.. all other ports are correct.

Jarred, I understand that there is internal express port to install high speed port module or flash memory. (mutually exclusive) Do you know if the flash memory can take the data with 8Gbites/sec so we can get RAW not only to the external storage but for those that will choose to install RED FLASH get it to the flash memory as well?

[Chris Gearhart]

Pretty Impressive, Anders!

[Jarred Land]

The usb port is not mini.. they are both full size. one is male and one is female, so the camera can act as a host and as a device.

REDCODE Raw will goto the flash cards. Raw Raw though, will not.

[Anders Holck]

Ok, Fixed the usb to Type A and Type B

[Andrew M.]

REDCODE Raw will goto the flash cards. Raw Raw though, will not.

In the price list there is a note, that RAW PORT removes RED FLASH.
There are two options for RED FLASH.
One is the ON CAMERA module for CF memory
Second is RED “EXPRESS CARD” FLASH Module.

Does RAW PORT removes both or just one of these two FLASH options?

If there will be fast enough EXPRESS FLASH memory card, can we record the RAW there?

[Anders Holck]

Both The Raw port and all the on camera flash options (Red Ram is off camera) are screwed in the same "hole" on the camera.

The on camera flash options are connected to an internal SATA bus according to Stuart.

The RAW port is major surgery and is most likely connected to the CMOS databus directly or another wide bus. It's not just a connector on the side, it's way more than that.

[Andrew M.]

Both The Raw port and all the on camera flash options (Red Ram is off camera) are screwed in the same "hole" on the camera.

The on camera flash options are connected to an internal SATA bus according to Stuart.

The RAW port is major surgery and is most likely connected to the CMOS databus directly or another wide bus. It's not just a connector on the side, it's way more than that.

I understood that EXPRESS CARD needs speed, so it have to be in the same place where the RAW PORT is but RED FLASH with CF memory modules doesn’t make sense to use it instead of RAW PORT. You can always connect the memory modules via external SATA connector? I can’t imagine situation where I will sacrifice future expansion in to the RAW PORT by blocking it with some low speed internal (on the camera) memory options. There must be some logic in this and the only logic I can come up with is, that express card is fast enough for RAW data speed, so in the future you can use it for storing RAW data there and then off loading the data to the SATA RED DISK while camera is idle.

Kind of like you have it on digital camera multi shoot feature. It lets you take so many second of 10 shoots per second and then you have to stop and give it time to off load the pictures data to the main camera memory, the memory that is too slow to take continuous 10 pictures per second. This would be great feature to shoot RAW and have it off loaded to the RED DISK in the idle times when you are not shooting. It needs only ~1/3 ration of shoot to idle to have RAW coverage of event without external storage connected to RAW PORT.

[Anders Holck]

The idea is to have recording options on the camera body.
Red Drive and Red Ram are external modules that make the package larger. They both connect to the external drive connector.

The flash mounts are mounted on the camera, and makes a very small flexible package, just like Panasonics P2 system.

Note that expresscard memory modules are not high speed, but are equal to CF or the 1.8" SATA modules.

The RAW port is aimed at studio setups, because you need one hell of a recorder setup to actually store the data.

My original guess was that all the on-board flash modules connected to an internal pci-express bus, but Stuart has explicitly stated that it's an internal SATA bus.

[Andrew M.]

The idea is to have recording options on the camera body.
Red Drive and Red Ram are external modules that make the package larger. They both connect to the external drive connector.

The flash mounts are mounted on the camera, and makes a very small flexible package, just like Panasonics P2 system.

Note that expresscard memory modules are not high speed, but are equal to CF or the 1.8" SATA modules.

The RAW port is aimed at studio setups, because you need one hell of a recorder setup to actually store the data.

My original guess was that all the on-board flash modules connected to an internal pci-express bus, but Stuart has explicitly stated that it's an internal SATA bus.

So pci express bus is not fast enough to handle 8Gbits/sec?
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/vectors/en/2004_pciexpress?c=us&l=en&s=corp
So what bus is used for RAW PORT.
I thought that RAW PORT is 10GB pci express?
I like this modular design, it is like in 1982 when IBM came up with PC XT
Can you imagine a camera that has standard interfaces/bus so you can mix PC hardware with Camera on boar/off board hardware. RED is almost there if not THERE.

[Anders Holck]

Andrew, I didn't say that.
What I said was that Stuart, a red employee, has stated (in the "workflow diagram thread") that the on camera flash modules are connected to an internal SATA bus. So it will be max 3Gbps.

Like I said, I originally though they would connect to an internal pci-e or expresscard connector, but this does not seem to be the case.

Note that it's possible to make a subset expresscard slot that will only work with flash memory cards,
I would imagine that if all the on camera modules connect to a SATA bus, the expresscard implementation is a subset.

Regarding the internal bus used for the uncompessed RAW port, my guess is that it is a custom parallel bus connected directly to the CMOS data output or to a bus very near the data CMOS output. This would also be the reason why it will be a service center option, you won't be able to install it yourself because it will mount directly to an internal PCB board.

The on-board flash options are user installable, but not if you have the flash option, because you would have to go to a service center to have it removed.

Regarding the speed of expresscard memory modules, they are exactly the same ~30 MB/s write speed as the other options.

[Sean]

What would happen (in theory) if I ran HD-SDI out of Red and into the DVI of an LCD monitor using an HD-SDI to DVI adapter like this (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2043)? Obviously, I'm trying for various work-around monitoring solutions here.

[Anders Holck]

That would work great with progressive signals. Note that model is discontinued, Gefen has a rplacement model which also has Dual link HD-SDI for 1080p RGB 4:4:4, Image adjustments and a more advanced scaler: http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3876

Another option is the Decklink HDLink which is half the price:
That supports dual link for 1080p RGB 4:4:4 from the red and has a custom gamma editor

[Sean]

Anders, you must be an engineer. You know this stuff inside and out! So it sounds like such an adapter could allow for a cheaper monitoring solution:

BlackMagic HDLink (http://www.decklink.com/products/hdlink/) (outputs to DVI or HDMI) $445.00 U.S.
1024x768 LCD monitor (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2510749&CatId=164) with DVI input $210 U.S.

Total $655.

Not exactly portable. But cheap and maybe workable for focus and framing?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So pci express bus is not fast enough to handle 8Gbits/sec?
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/vectors/en/2004_pciexpress?c=us&l=en&s=corp
So what bus is used for RAW PORT.
I thought that RAW PORT is 10GB pci express?
I like this modular design, it is like in 1982 when IBM came up with PC XT
Can you imagine a camera that has standard interfaces/bus so you can mix PC hardware with Camera on boar/off board hardware. RED is almost there if not THERE.

ExpressCard and PCI Express are not the same thing. ExpressCard is for mobile computers -- it's the new slot replacing the old PCMCIA standard. It does share some of PCI Express' technical traits. It has the ability to go multi-lane for increased bandwidth, for example. As it stands right now, ExpressCard is 2.5Gbps or roughly 300MB/s -- the same as SATA.

When you buy the RED camera, it has some sort of mount point for a FLASH module, which attaches using a proprietary eSATA+power connector. Those FLASH modules will be available in three different versions: One that takes CF cards, one that takes ExpressCard media, and one that holds 1.8" SATA hard disk media -- FLASH SSD's needed for reliability and performance though. You can buy any one of these or all of them if you wish and mount whichever to the camera you want when you want.

The RAW port is something else entirely. It requires removal of the mount point and eSATA interface for the FLASH modules. Which is replaced with 10Gbps (1250MB/s) optical interface. We don't know the specs yet other than it requires factory installation and it's 10G optical fiber.

[Anders Holck]

Note that for the HD link your DVI LCD display MUST support 1920 x 1200 input to be able to work with the 1080 HD-SDI output, or MUST support 1280 x 800 for the 720p HD-SDI output.

This is because it does not include a scaler chip (other than the 2 x SD pixel doubling mode) like the gefen box.

So if you want to monitor the HD-SDI 1080 output, you should really be looking for a 1920 x 1200 display.
The upside is that you get a sharp 1:1 pixel mapping.

[Nick Shaw]

Anders, you must be an engineer. You know this stuff inside and out! So it sounds like such an adapter could allow for a cheaper monitoring solution:

BlackMagic HDLink (http://www.decklink.com/products/hdlink/) (outputs to DVI or HDMI) $445.00 U.S.
1024x768 LCD monitor (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2510749&CatId=164) with DVI input $210 U.S.

Total $655.

Not exactly portable. But cheap and maybe workable for focus and framing?

I have an HDLink, and it is certainly a good low cost monitoring solution. However, it wouldn't work in the setup you describe. It is a pixel for pixel converter in DVI mode, so needs a 1920 pixel wide display like the 23" Apple Cinema Display to show 1080 HD. You can't use a 1024x768 display unless it has an HDMI input, and scales internally, in which case you don't need an HDLink, you could use the RED 720p HDMI output.

[Sean]

Interesting about the scaling issues. But 720 pixel wide is sufficient for focus right? So from the sounds of it you could use the HDLink to get a 720 monitoring solution for Red from a 1280x800 monitor.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Interesting about the scaling issues. But 720 pixel wide is sufficient for focus right? So from the sounds of it you could use the HDLink to get a 720 monitoring solution for Red from a 1280x800 monitor.

Well, it's actually 720 pixels high, 1280 wide. And no, it's not going to be sufficient for focus -- especially if you're shooting 4K. This is where Graeme's killer new focus assist comes in. That and a good eye, feel for distance and a nice tape measure and you're ready to roll.

[Andrew M.]

The RAW port is something else entirely. It requires removal of the mount point and eSATA interface for the FLASH modules. Which is replaced with 10Gbps (1250MB/s) optical interface. We don't know the specs yet other than it requires factory installation and it's 10G optical fiber.

The ability to have RAW recording, without taking it out via RAW PORT, will be a great feature. Even if it mean only 120 seconds recording time. Once you have it in the flash, you can transfer it in to RED DISK and shoot next 120 seconds if need be.

I am very curious where the RAW PORT is connected on the camera.
Especially I am curious if it is using the standard bus or not.

[Don Woods]

Good job andress thanks for the info.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The good news is that you will not have to transcode HD-SDI to HDMI as there is a HDMI output right on the side of the camera. Last I heard the HDMI is limited to 720 by 1,280 but the type of monitors you are talking about are likely to perform best at that resolution anyway.

[Anders Holck]

Yes, the easiest way would be to use the HDMI port for a 1280x768 monitor

What this discussion came from (As I understood it) was the option of using cheap and thin/flexible BNC cable, with very long cable support, to drive a cheap monitor at 1080p. A 1920x1200 lcd display and the hd-link still seems to be the best option for that.

If a thicker cable, shorter cable lenght and 720p is good enough, the hdmi is a great option (and would MAYBE show surroundview and overlays as well...)

[Thom Steinhoff]

Yes, the easiest way would be to use the HDMI port for a 1280x768 monitor

What this discussion came from (As I understood it) was the option of using cheap and thin/flexible BNC cable, with very long cable support, to drive a cheap monitor at 1080p. A 1920x1200 lcd display and the hd-link still seems to be the best option for that.

If a thicker cable, shorter cable lenght and 720p is good enough, the hdmi is a great option (and would MAYBE show surroundview and overlays as well...)

From what I can see to drive a 1080 monitor or television you need an HD-link and two BNC cables from the camera to the HDLINK. Then, from the HDLink you would go DVI to the monitor or DVI-HDMI then HDMI to the television.

The only reason I'm restating it is not because I think you misunderstand it--but because I want to make sure that I do!

Thom

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The ability to have RAW recording, without taking it out via RAW PORT, will be a great feature. Even if it mean only 120 seconds recording time. Once you have it in the flash, you can transfer it in to RED DISK and shoot next 120 seconds if need be.

I am very curious where the RAW PORT is connected on the camera.
Especially I am curious if it is using the standard bus or not.

We're not sure how the RAW port connects to the camera and if it's some form of standard bus interconnect or not. I highly doubt it's all that standard, most likely it's a proprietary interface to one of the internal communication paths inside the camera.

The FLASH modules are using SATA, so don't have the bandwidth needed for uncompressed RAW acquisition, or at least not at the frame rates that make capturing uncompressed RAW desirable.

Now it would be theoretically possible to build a high-speed RAM buffer in two ways. One is a buffer that would connect to the installed RAW PORT and would capture that sort of data, and then log it to disk. Basically, you would plug your RED DRIVE or RED RAM into this buffer memory module and let it be the intermediate uncompressed solution from the camera to disk. Or... Instead of installing the RAW PORT. Perhaps another factory install option could be the RAM buffer itself or a different sort of interface to the RAM buffer, not necessarily the 10G fiber. It could make due with something more suited for very short distance transmission since it's on camera. I think a RAM buffer for capturing 30 seconds or so of uncompressed RAW at a time might be a good option for some. But I'm not so sure it would be much (if any) cheaper than the RAW PORT add-on. It would also be bulky as it would probably require its own power source. And no point in designing such a solution that runs tethered. At that point you may as well use the RAW PORT and not be limited to small takes and then the down-time for the camera to process and convert the captured data into REDCODE RAW.

But this really belongs in that other thread about the RAM buffer.

[Anders Holck]

Thom, you do need two BNC cables in parallel to run the HD-SDI at RGB 4:4:4, if you switch the RED Master HD-SDI output to 4:2:2 you only need one cable.
HD-Link takes both, so it's possible to switch back and forth where applicable.

[Thom Steinhoff]

Ah, it is all becoming clear. So to run a Cinema Display or even a 1080i (Say the Sony XSRD high end consumer television) you could either run it at 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 and the 4:2:2 would not have as great of color--or what would the difference be?

[Anders Holck]

4:4:4 is RGB color space in full resolution.

4:2:2 is Component Y, Pb, Pr, with the Y component in full resolution and the two color components subsampled to half resolution on the x axis.

So in 4:2:2 you get a slight image degrade by the color space conversion, and then horisontal color pixilation by the subsampling.

It's clear that the RGB image will be closer to the recorded image, but the 4:2:2 image might be good enough.

[Thom Steinhoff]

Great thanks. Single line sounds like it would certainly be good enough for a remote framing monitor (crane, etc) but wouldn't be that much more of a hastle to bind two parallel lines to drop back to the video villiage. Definately seems like the best solution.

I guess, then if you need multiple monitors then you would need to either split the HD-SDI with something like this:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2564

Then you would need one HDLink for each monitor you want to drive, or an DVI-D splitter such as...

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=3104&sku=40356

if it is okay to be bound by DVI distances once you get to the HDLink.

[Andrew M.]

I think a RAM buffer for capturing 30 seconds or so of uncompressed RAW at a time might be a good option for some. But I'm not so sure it would be much (if any) cheaper than the RAW PORT add-on. It would also be bulky as it would probably require its own power source. And no point in designing such a solution that runs tethered.

I don’t think the RAM buffer will be bulky. If you take out the RAW PORT then wherever the raw port is plugged in you plug the RAM buffer card, like it is right now done for express flash card. The other possibility is, to have lossless REDCODE RAW recorded to the SATA disk that uncompress exactly to the RAW, instead REDCODE RAW that do not uncompress exactly to the RAW data. With the compression 4 to one we should be able to record it to the SATA devices. Do you know what the compression ratio of REDCODE RAW is now? And why it is called REDCODE RAW if it is not uncompressing to exactly original RAW data, or I am wrong on this one?

[Anders Holck]

Andrew,
The expresscard flash module is still not connected to the same bus as the RAW option. It is mounted on the same place on the camera but the expresscard module is user replaceable so it's not the same bus as the RAW option.

Redcode RAW is a varialble compression codec. The compression ratio that is adverticed today is about 11:1 for 4k redcode RAW.

RAW just means a singlechannel bayer encoded image, as opposed to a three channel RGB image. Redcode RAW retains the single channel bayer data thruout it's compression.

Uncompressed RAW 4k at 24fps would be 323MB/s, with a 4:1 codec you are still looking at 80MB/s

[Sean]

So Anders did an awesome job of theorizing about possible connectors on Red One. My question is how do you think I will connect the Red Drive to a computer for importing the footage files into RedCine? It's not a traditional "capture" from tape, obviously, so I don't imagine needing an AJA or decklink card for this. Is it a firewire connection between the Red Drive and my PC NLE?

[Anders Holck]

The Red Drive and Red Ram has FW800 and USB2 connectors (and eSATA though it's using the custom connector)

The drives are FAT32 formatted.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I don’t think the RAM buffer will be bulky.

Well, there's a lot of unknowns right now. We don't know how large the RAW PORT is or how it attaches, we just know where. The FLASH options attach to the same point on the camera and have to be large enough to accommodate their FLASH options.

Depending on how much room is actually available inside the camera will make a difference on how such a RAM buffer attaches and how much exterior space will be needed. Also what sort of RAM is chosen will have an effect as will the capacity. A RAM buffer built around 1Gbit DDR SDRAM (need 8 of these to make a 1GB DIMM module) chips would be a lot larger physically than one built out of 2GB DDR2 chips (8 of these to make a 16GB FB-DIMM). Then there's the question of integrating the chips on proprietary PCBs and interfaces. Or do they use off-the-shelf modules like DIMMs... Using FB-DIMMs would allow you to stack 32GB into a two DIMM slot space, but it would generate a lot more heat in a smaller space and be a lot more expensive. Using 2GB DDR SDRAM DIMMs, the cost per GB would be a lot lower, but performance would still be plenty adequate. It might consume more power but produce less heat per square cm. It would be more bulky with this type of RAM vs. FB-DIMMs as you would need 16 DIMM slots to get to a 32GB buffer. Where are you going to put those? What would be rather bulky on the side of the camera.


If you take out the RAW PORT then wherever the raw port is plugged in you plug the RAM buffer card, like it is right now done for express flash card.

You're not going to be able to use a RAM buffer "card". There are no memory/FLASH cards that are fast enough to handle the data rates. In fact there are no FLASH options, that approach the speed capabilities of the SATA buss right now. Or at least not without creating a rather large RAID stripe volume.


The other possibility is, to have lossless REDCODE RAW recorded to the SATA disk that uncompress exactly to the RAW, instead REDCODE RAW that do not uncompress exactly to the RAW data.

OK, you lost me there. REDCODE RAW is "visually lossless". When you shoot 4K up to 30fps and 2K windowed up to 60fps, you can record in the "visually lossless" REDCODE RAW codec on-camera. The FLASH modules, RED RAM and RED DRIVE all have enough bandwidth to handle this. But at those max frame rates, you're pushing the limits of what the camera can process and encode internally. If you want to shoot those resolutions at faster rates or if you want to shoot the full 4.5K sensor area, the camera can't cope with the data so the concept is to dump it out to the "RAW PORT", which is uncompressed RAW or true RAW data. Theoretically, a RAM BUFFER could be attached to this RAW PORT instead of a large, tethered RAID (or attached in place of it) to intercept short bursts of this data. Then this data could be fed back into the camera at a lower rate for recompression (theoretically). For example, if you shoot 4K @ 60fps and it takes about 1GB/sec to store to a RAM buffer. If you have a 32GB buffer you could shoot a 30 second burst of 4K @ 60fps. It could then be fed back through the camera and encoded to REDCODE RAW... The camera could probably do this at about half real-time speed (given the ability to do 4K30 onboard) and write it out to the RED DRIVE or RED RAM... Not the FLASH module, because this RAM BUFFER would probably occupy that space on the camera. The other option is to not encode through the camera, but to dump the contents of the RAM buffer directly to a RED DRIVE or RED RAM. However, those both have eSATA interfaces. And I'm sure neither comes close to maxing out a SATA bus. Even if they did, SATA only provides about 29% of the bandwidth needed to transfer 4K uncompressed RAW from the camera in real-time. The max write speed of the RED DRIVE is probably somwhere close to 45~60MB/s, or about 20% of that 29%. So that just isn't practical.

As for compression, we can't compress on the fly... Not enough power in the camera, that's why the RAW PORT exists in the first place. If a RAM buffer is to exist, there must be an interface and buffer media that can sustain 1GB/sec. So it's going to be actual RAM with a fast memory controller and interface tied to some wide bus in the camera. The most logical place to attach it seems to be the same place the RAW PORT attaches.

Overall, I'm not so sure how practical such a RAM buffer is. Seems like a good idea on the surface. But there still must be some form of proprietary interface to the camera and control system. I wouldn't look for a RAM buffer to provide a cheaper alternative to the RAW PORT and it would be more likely to be a device attached to the RAW PORT anyway. And if that's the case, then what would be the practical application? Shooting in 30 second bursts with 1 to 2 minutes down-time between each take sounds just plain silly. And RAM is not cheap... If we're talking about placing 32GB of RAM into a box that attaches to a RAW PORT, why not go tethered and use a system based on hard drives (RED RAID?) that gives tons more storage with a much lower $$/GB ratio? No shoot for a few seconds and wait for it to encode in the workflow. Sure your're tethered, but only by a thin optical cable that literally can be 1.5 miles in length.

[Andrew M.]

Andres, Jeff, thank you for enlightening me on the REDCODE RAW.
Didn’t know that it is not three channel one.
REDCODE RAW is "visually lossless" hmmm… I will not agree with this.
It depends who is looking.
If you can’t convert compression back to the original especially when we are talking RAW then what’s the point.
Jeff, I see you pay attention to details. Yes, I agree and see that camera do not have enough CPU power but I wonder if there is a way to design ASIC chip that will do some simple lossless compression in hardware?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

REDCODE RAW is "visually lossless" hmmm… I will not agree with this.
It depends who is looking.

I agree... I haven't seen it in full 4K glory on a projection. But so far everyone who has seems to go nuts over it. We'll see what happens at NAB. For now, the word is "visually lossless". Definitely possible. There are plenty of "visually lossless" compression algorithms for still imagery. All of which do degrade the image to some degree. But you're right it depends on who is viewing and by which means they are viewing. More so, I'm very curious to see how the REDCODE codecs (RAW and RGB) hold up over multiple generations of recompression as can sometimes happen.


If you can’t convert compression back to the original especially when we are talking RAW then what’s the point.

Compressed RAW (REDCODE RAW) just provides for a means to get the massive RAW data from the camera to your edit system by way of conventional media. It seems rather efficient, but I suppose the proof will be in the pudding when cameras start shipping and people actually start using all this stuff. Compressing RAW should theoretically be more efficient and less "lossy" than compressing footage that has already been processed into RGB data.


Jeff, I see you pay attention to details. Yes, I agree and see that camera do not have enough CPU power but I wonder if there is a way to design ASIC chip that will do some simple lossless compression in hardware?

Anything is possible, I suppose. This would probably be an extra feature that few would use regularly within the camera. Unless it could provide some significant gains to every record function. But makes sense as a function of a RAM buffer type device to help gain additional record time.

I would also say it's reasonable to expect that the REDCODE compression algorithms will improve over time and as processing power within the camera is upgraded, more record options (frame rates approaching the 46K60 / 2K120) will become available on-board. It's also reasonable to expect in a couple years, FLASH technology will have progressed a great deal. Perhaps a future FLASH option could be installed in place of the RAW port, and provided 1+TB of on-camera FLASH storage capable of recording uncompressed RAW.

For now, I think it's safe to say we should all wait to see what RED has in store for us at NAB. After that, people will start receiving cameras and using them and new workflow concepts and suggestions will be presented. There's a good chance that in 2 months, we'll all be discussing workflows and possibilities that none of us have thought of just yet.

[Ivan G]

Great diagram. What type of connections are E, G, and F. They don't look lie BNC to me.

[Jarred Land]

Great diagram. What type of connections are E, G, and F. They don't look lie BNC to me.

some people call them mini-bnc (which they arn't), they are the same connectors as the AJA kona 3 uses, and have a retarded name composed of numbers and periods i can never remember.

The good thing is, after using them the last couple months, i love them more than BNC. easy on, easy off and very durable. RED will provide adapters to BNC.

[Anders Holck]

Do they lock or simply "pop off"? :-)
Im all Decklink, so haven't tried those connectors

[Jarred Land]

they push on and lock... the connector has a colar that you pull back and they pop off. so if you pull the cable they wont come off, but if you pull the connector they will. Its a pretty cool system, and incredibly small.

[Anders Holck]

Ok, sounds great. I have push/pull connectors on all my BNC's
Twisting a small metal piece in the cold really suck.

[Ken Willinger]

Excellent diagram Anders! Answers a lot of questions.

I'm curious about the Time Code connector. I'm used to TC in/out being BNC. What type of connector is that? It's not the same as the video connectors on E, G and F.

[Anders Holck]

Looks like a 4 pin lemo or hirose. In=2 pins, out=2 pins

[Jannard]

Andres, Jeff, thank you for enlightening me on the REDCODE RAW.
REDCODE RAW is "visually lossless" hmmm… I will not agree with this.
It depends who is looking.


We have shown several "industry experts", including an Academy Award winning director, RAW and REDCODE RAW... side by side on a 4K projector at a major studio. We asked them to tell us which was which. They got it wrong.

So please reserve judgment on whether or not it really is visually lossless until you see it 1st hand. It really is amazing and one of the key reasons that this camera is considered revolutionary.

Jim

[CVB]

I saw it at the Nuart theater and its indistinguishable. I remember that Ted was at the stage and he played the RAW footage.. a few minutes later He played the REDCODE RAW... no response... everyone was thinking " why did Ted just show the same clip twice?" Then he said that the second clip was REDCODE RAW. The everyone asked for him to play it again - as if they had been tricked or something. Very impressive footage and if you haven't seen it in person then you are in for a big treat at NAB.

[Stuart English]

The timecode connector is a 5 pin LEMO as used on audio equipment for film shoots. It carries timecode in and out. If you need one, there are LEMO to BNC adaptor cables available from places such as MarkerTech and B&H etc....

[Anders Holck]

Ahhh. Got it

TC Connector: (Lemo Part FGG-OB 5 pole, FGG.0B.305.CLAD52)
1. Ground.
2. LTC In.
3 ASCII in/out
4. nc
5. LTC out

[Andrew M.]

We have shown several "industry experts", including an Academy Award winning director, RAW and REDCODE RAW... side by side on a 4K projector at a major studio. We asked them to tell us which was which. They got it wrong.

So please reserve judgment on whether or not it really is visually lossless until you see it 1st hand. It really is amazing and one of the key reasons that this camera is considered revolutionary.

Jim

It depends who is looking.
If you can’t convert compression back to the original especially when we are talking RAW then what’s the point.

Jim, depends who is looking, was taken bit out of context.
I am more wary about the access to the RAW data for post processing and mixing.
I am curious if REDCODE RAW will allow us to manipulate the raw data as much as the original RAW data will do.
The second question is the slow motion, pause, and the content that is not just the event movie. Will REDCODE RAW have unnoticeable difference compared with RAW then?

[Andrew M.]

I saw it at the Nuart theater and its indistinguishable. I remember that Ted was at the stage and he played the RAW footage.. a few minutes later He played the REDCODE RAW... no response... everyone was thinking " why did Ted just show the same clip twice?" Then he said that the second clip was REDCODE RAW. The everyone asked for him to play it again - as if they had been tricked or something. Very impressive footage and if you haven't seen it in person then you are in for a big treat at NAB.

As Mike mentioned in another thread, indistinguishable and unnoticeable are two different things. I am more after the unnoticeable effect.
Indistinguishable is another story, just press the pause button and (I reserve the judgment after the NAB) come closer to the screen. What I am wary though, if final product shown after Green Screen keying, correcting, processing done on the original RAW or REDCODE RAW will have unnoticeable difference by general public.

[Brook Willard]

I have keyed and corrected a REDCODE 4K image with stunning results... cleaner than anything I've ever seen before [and I've seen a lot]. This was using an older version of the REDCODE RAW codec [back in the 10-bit days]; it has changed considerably since then.

You have just as much control over the REDCODE RAW data as you would over uncompressed RAW. You will get "identical" results from either... within reason. That is, anything that you would ever want to do for the sake of improving or manipulating the image will not reveal compression. If you push it to 1600% saturation and maul the curves, well, yes, you'll probably see something. Will that be compression or faults in the sensor? Matters not to me. At that point, the wheels fall off of any image [digital, still, film, you name it.]

[Andrew M.]

You have just as much control over the REDCODE RAW data as you would over uncompressed RAW. You will get "identical" results from either... within reason. That is, anything that you would ever want to do for the sake of improving or manipulating the image will not reveal compression. If you push it to 1600% saturation and maul the curves, well, yes, you'll probably see something. Will that be compression or faults in the sensor? Matters not to me. At that point, the wheels fall off of any image [digital, still, film, you name it.]

Brook, this is great news!!
So it looks like RAW port is only for OCD people:-)
I presume that you were looking at pixel per pixel representation of the picture on your computer screen that should give you approximately 40"-50"virtual screen size?
Did you try to go frame by frame?
Did you see any difference then?
I can’t wait to press this pause button on 4K or 2K REDCODE RAW and see it myself…
If I don’t see the clear difference then it means that Graeme is the genius.

[Brook Willard]

Brook, this is great news!!
So it looks like RAW port is only for OCD people:-)
I presume that you were looking at pixel per pixel representation of the picture on your computer screen that should give you approximately 40"-50"virtual screen size?
Did you try to go frame by frame?
Did you see any difference then?
I can’t wait to press this pause button on 4K or 2K REDCODE RAW and see it myself…
If I don’t see the clear difference then it means that Graeme is the genius.

Yes, it was a pixel-per-pixel representation. The composite was assembled in Shake. I didn't go frame by frame as it wasn't footage [just single frames]. Click here and try it yourself. Remember that this is using the old REDCODE on Frankie using an uncharacterized sensor without dead pixel correction or the current dynamic range. (http://www.cinematography.net/Red/comp-matrix.html).

[dalemccready]

Interesting about the scaling issues. But 720 pixel wide is sufficient for focus right? So from the sounds of it you could use the HDLink to get a 720 monitoring solution for Red from a 1280x800 monitor.

I just pictured my focus puller standing next to the RED with a 23"LCD attached to the camera on a NOGA arm. :biggrin:

A decent Focus puller is not going to use the monitor to find focus, but it will settle the mind of the director and others at video village.

Still, an almost sharp monitor can cause problems. The last shoot I was on had the continuity lady screaming "sharps! Check FOCUS!". She was watching a 8" LCD monitor from a film split. My Focus puller almost walked over and slapped her.

[Rune Hansen]

The drives are FAT32 formatted. The mediafiles are standard Quicktime files and using the Redcode codec either in RAW or RGB mode.

Now I have a question: FAT32 has a limit of 4 GB per file. How is this handled, anyone, anyone? Files broken off into 4 GB chunks?

-rune

[Chris Gearhart]

Presumably it will be handled tranparently, but yes, 4gb is FAT32 limit.

See posts beginning at page 7 of this thread: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=363&page=7

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks Unders,

this helps very much guys like me that know a bit of everiting but much of nothing, still have the will and passion to lorned all.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI

[Shane V8F]

Port E,G, and F have a strange look to them. On most cameras these connectors would be handled with BnC's. What type of conector are they? I also saw that the camera was using a smaller then normal XLR for audio. Shouldn't all the conectors on the Red be the same type that we use in the industry? It would be a shame to have to have adapt everything.

[Stephen Gentle]

Port E,G, and F have a strange look to them. On most cameras these connectors would be handled with BnC's. What type of conector are they? I also saw that the camera was using a smaller then normal XLR for audio. Shouldn't all the conectors on the Red be the same type that we use in the industry? It would be a shame to have to have adapt everything.
I don't know what E, G, and F are (possibly some kind of mini BNC). Since these are digital it won't matter to have a adaptor anyway...

I think that they used mini-XLR sockets for audio to fit them all in. Otherwise you could only fit 2 inputs on the side of the camera. I think I heard someone say that a lot of new wireless mics etc. are starting to use mini XLR now anyway.

[Anders Holck]

I believe they are also called “1.0/2.3 connectors"
http://www.selectcables.com/selectcables/resources/cm_pdf/cmserie1_0-2_3.pdf

[GMCinema]

Looking at the connections published I cannot recognize any provision for a remote turn over/record facility. Can anybody confirm there is indeed a way
of remotely controlling recording sessions?

[Anders Holck]

A few posibilities:
L) B4 lens connector, I believe this has an interface for the Supergrip to start/stop etc. Could be a full RS-232.
M), N) USB. Stuart has said that a API will be available at some point to enable two way communication and control of the camera, even wireless with a Wifi/Bluetooth dongle.

*** Correction by Stuart ***

Connectors C have GPI and GPO... i.e. contact closures based - use one for start / stop the other for a remote tally.

[GMCinema]

A few posibilities:
L) B4 lens connector, I believe this has an interface for the Supergrip to start/stop etc. Could be a full RS-232.
M), N) USB. Stuart has said that a API will be available at some point to enable two way communication and control of the camera, even over wireless with a Wifi/Bluetooth dongle.

A simple N/O momentary 2 way contact should suffise to ensure compatibility with most camera remote systems of this globe. Any deviation towards more complex setups for this purpose would be a manko.

[Stuart English]

Connectors C have GPI and GPO... i.e. contact closures based - use one for start / stop the other for a remote tally.

[GMCinema]

Sounds good. Is there a detailed pinout info with connector specs for all connections available as of yet so that we can prepare
remote systems for this woderful new tool in a timely manner?

[Mike Prevette]

Any one have a source for those damn mini BNC connectors, or pigtails? I'm going to need 20 of the freaking things in my case. Based on how often things like that go "missing" I'm really not stoked on them instead of standard BNC, plus they look very breakable.


_mike

[Stuart English]

We supply adaptors cables ..... and can certainly supply spares if you need them.

When its freezing cold or wet, those four compact, positive lock, push pull connectors that replace BNC's might just be seen in an entirely different light :matrix:

[Rocco Schult]

The Red Drive and Red Ram has FW800 and USB2 connectors (and eSATA though it's using the custom connector)

The drives are FAT32 formatted. The mediafiles are standard Quicktime files and using the Redcode codec either in RAW or RGB mode.


Now I have a question: FAT32 has a limit of 4 GB per file. How is this handled, anyone, anyone? Files broken off into 4 GB chunks?

-rune

Sorry guys, can we sort that out please ? Only found confirmation for the FAT32 - but how does it work now ?
Red has to split them up. Nice, so only the last file would be corrupted, on case something failes or you have a data-problem.
But its very unusual for these systems to make a split and still unclear how the chunks are sticked together again.
Wether AVIs on Windows systems, nor Apple systems as to my experience and awareness do a brakeup.
(Except a reference Quicktime)

[Rob Lohman]

Sorry guys, can we sort that out please ?

I'm a bit surprised it's that important to you. We're writing chunked files with a sort of QT reference files. You will have a way to deal with corruption and such.

[Anders Holck]

My comment that the mediafiles are quicktime files is in fact uncorrect and I'll edit that.
The mediafiles are custom data files with a small Quicktime reference file pointing to them.

Rob can you comment on how the filestructure is at the moment?
How are the files named in the file tree etc.

[Rob Lohman]

I cannot since we haven't fully nailed that down yet...

[Rocco Schult]

Thom, you do need two BNC cables in parallel to run the HD-SDI at RGB 4:4:4, if you switch the RED Master HD-SDI output to 4:2:2 you only need one cable.

When I pointed exactly that out at NAB my wish sounded to be very new. It looked as if singlelink SDI (422) was not really on plan until just now (?). So in my understanding its not a feature built-in yet ?


I'm a bit surprised it's that important to you. We're writing chunked files with a sort of QT reference files. You will have a way to deal with corruption and such.

Hi Rob, sorry! My
Sorry guys, can we sort that out please ? was meant to have an :umm: or such at the end..

But indeed, corruption is exactly the reason why I think its important. If you had a corrupted QT file of some 300GB, when the recording was stopped due to whatever reason, than you understand why its corrupted wrapper is so annoying. I tried all options and usually with the defective wrapper in my experience you don't get this file working again.
One of the reasons I love image sequences for. Only the last image might have a failure.
AND because i experienced how difficult it might be to stick chunks together again if you don't know the nomenclature of them. Record a DV-stream or even bigger to a FAT32 with FCP over 20-30mins (>4GB) - gives you an idea of what I mean. FCP breaks them up for you. One mother QT and its chunks in a certain way.

[Rob Lohman]

I was a bit surprised since we like to take care of you :) As indicated there will be ways to deal with file corruption.

[Rocco Schult]

thanks, cool :w00t:
looking forward to it. Have a nice sunday.

[Yaque Silva-Doyle]

Anders Thanks for you post on connectors it was very helpfull. you didn't happen to go to San francisco state Flim school?

[Anders Holck]

No film school for me.
I took a SOA steadicam workshop in '99, but thats about it :-)

[tj williams]

The two power unregulated outputs look like the LEmos om my steadicam pro
are they the same???

[Stuart English]

Yes they are LEMO, 0B shell size, 4 pin. Two pins for unregulated battery loop through power, one each for GPI and GPO - which are input trigger and output tally lines respectively. Can't say if they are the same as used on Steadcam, i just don't know. Sounds like a good research project.

[Anders Holck]

If it's tied down can you tell the pin-out of the Power out and audio monitor out?

[C.H.Haskell]

I looked for the answer for this and sorry if I missed it but,

Just wondering how most of these plugs will be covered when not in use, they seem like they would get mucked up quickly in a PJ crossing the line type of shoot. Little rubber caps? Thanks for the diagram by the way Anders!

Cheers

[dalemccready]

not many film cameras have little rubber caps and they use multi pin Fischers and Lemos. If you're in a situation where you're worried about that sort of dirt getting in there, then often the entire camera would be covered up.

[oliver imfeld]

we would like to know which cable/connection we will have to use to hook up our wireless video transmitter to the camera in order to have an image for the director on his combo?
many thx, regards
oliver

[Finner]

Hi leswiss

The camera only outputs different HD signals so you will have to have a HD transmitter and a HD video village or a HD to SD converter in the mix.

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

I couldn't see any dials for adjusting the sound level or headphone level. I know you're making a revolutionary camera here :biggrin: but can anyone tell us what the plan is for the sound please? What are the preamps like? Do you have good limiters? Will we be able to dematrix MS stereo? Will sound info be available in the viewfinder/lcd? Will the camera op be able to monitor and adjust the levels on the fly?

Will RED stand to attention and dance a jig when it hears the National Anthem?

Questions questions...

[John Clark]

Our first 'Red' production, planned for September 2007 will now be shot on another system, though we were not surprised to learn of the engineering delay.

What we now need are a full set of specs as a technical 'white paper' to match the upcoming delivery schedule making clear what will be enabled when.

We also need to know exactly which configurations of camera and accessories will be practical for each level of enablement.

Forums are fine for speculation, but there are so many threads here, I think the information needs consolidating by effective technical documentation from RED.

[Nook Kim]

As the first delivery date is coming very soon, I think it would be really cool to
see a photo of this "dumb" side of the Red One. There has been quite a few
pictures of the "smart" side of the camera so far, but never any of the dumb
side ones, yet.

I for one would really love to see what it looks like at this moment. Anything,
Jarred? :sorcerer:

Also, I'm one of the people who have concerns about those open connections.
If the connections were blocked by circular metal (or something light weight)
panels that open up, just like the automatic glass doors, how cool would that
be? When those panels are closed, the camera appears to have no connections,
then.

I'm not a big fan of those rubber ones. It's time for a change. I think they are
doing something new. Another surprise, maybe.. :matrix:

[sbaechler]

I hope they will replace the HDMI connector with something more field capable. On my beamer (which is mounted to the ceiling) the HDMI plug unplugs itself from time to time. I expect this to happen at least twenty times every day on an ordinary shoot.
I've had this problem with the component cable on the HVX-200 and that plug even had a clamp!
So please RED replace that plug with a Lemo or Fisher. Even if we have to buy or make an expensive adapter cable it will be well worth it.

Simon

[Nick Gardner]

Hi, first of all I ordered a camera, the images look great. However I have real problem with the type and location of the connectors on this camera.

First - every camera that had a cable plugged into it since the IIC, has had them running for and aft, not at 90 degrees to the camera body. This is just going to stick out, get caught on things, and basicaly get sheared off. Picture your self hand held, walking backwards, leading an actor thru a crowded bar, it's dark, strobe lights, concrete support collums, bump - shit. Ok, now I need a new connector block for my camera cause I just sheared off all my bnc and xlrs.

Second - In what way can using Mini BNCs (or whatever they are called) be a good thing? I have seen them, they are tiny and fragile. Again they stick out the side of the camera, you can't get them anywhere. Regular BNCs can be had at electronics shops, boat stores, CB shops - virtually anywhere in the country/world. They don't plug into anything (monitors, aja down converters (the ones we use on cameras, not Computers)). Is the Video assist guy supposed to go buy 2000 feet of new cable? What happens when the dolly grip booms up and doesn't notice the cable to video village is caught on the seat? Rip - shit. Ok, go send a pa to find some of these weird ass connectors - on a sunday, in the middle of no where.

Third - are those really mini XLRs for audio? Really? On purpose? Thats a bad idea on so many different levels.....I'll let the sound guys bitch about that.

Lastly - The power cable. OK, I'll give you the 4 pin lemo, Arri has a 2 pin fisher, even Panavision has different cables for different cameras. But you have to make a 4 pin xlr to red lemo cable. I mean come on, there are tens of thousands of 4 pin xlr power sources out there. The red draws around 8 amps with a drive and a viewfinder right? Add a remote follow focus, an Aja downconverter, a modulus video transmitter, a transvideo on board for the ac, a cine tape for the ac, and hell a lens light too, and no on-board lithium ion battery in the world will stand up to that amp load for more than 15 mins. You need alternative power options.

I would love to hear from the Red staff on this. I think these are going to be real issues, particularly when you start talking about rental houses. People destroy rental gear. I know there are a bunch of castings already made, etc., etc., but look at all the work Clairmont did on the F-900 to make it field user friendly. I would hate for Red users to have to do some thing similar.

How about a single 5 pin real xlr for sound like on the SDX-900? One connectr on the camera, and a break out cable for the sound mixer.

You've got all the bolt-on-modular thing going, why not have a single 11pin fisher (90degrees of course) go to a BNC break out box that you could mount where ever you want?

So congrats to team Red, not trying to bust your balls, everything else just seems very slick and these issues seem over looked.

Cant wait to get my camera,

Nick Gardner

[Jarred Land]

half of you want standard connectors. simon doesnt want standard connectors. maybe everything should just be wireless :)

[Finner]

Hi Nick

No fear some companies are working on building a break-out box that will mount to the side of the camera to fix these mistakes.

[Nick Gardner]

I have to say that having valid, genuine concerns, responded to by the Red team with a joke, is not confidence building. I have been operating cameras for more than 17 years. All types, in all conditions around the world. I know what I'm talking about.

If there is some reason for the goofy connector layout, lets hear it. I am sure some one thought it was a good idea for some reason.

No one has addressed the power issues, or posted any specs on Reds batteries. I have yet to see anyone do a real world test all loaded up for hand held on a TV series or a feature film. What are the amp limits on the two unregulated power outs?

Just looking for an intelligent discussion on this topic. What is Reds vision of how this camera gets used on set, what were some of the big productions solutions to these problems?

Thanks,

Nick Gardner

[Stuart English]

every camera that had a cable plugged into it since the IIC, has had them running for and aft, not at 90 degrees to the camera body. This is just going to stick out, get caught on things, and basicaly get sheared off

In what way can using Mini BNCs be a good thing?

Are those really mini XLRs for audio? Really? On purpose? Thats a bad idea on so many different levels.....I'll let the sound guys bitch about that.

You have to make a 4 pin xlr to red lemo cable. I mean come on, there are tens of thousands of 4 pin xlr power sources out there.

The red draws around 8 amps with a drive and a viewfinder right? Add a remote follow focus, an Aja downconverter, a modulus video transmitter, a transvideo on board for the ac, a cine tape for the ac, and hell a lens light too, and no on-board lithium ion battery in the world will stand up to that amp load for more than 15 mins. You need alternative power options.


A few quick answers

The EVF, LCD and Aux/Lens cables all have right angle connectors so they don't stick out. Ditto with the DIN video to BNC adaptor cable.

DIN v's BNC - they save space, also easier to connect in cold weather too.

Mini-XLR save space. Other than being different, why are they seen to be such a problem?

Most 4 pin XLR power sources do NOT have enough current to drive a RED.

The D-Tap on the V plate gives extra power source options in addition to the camera power outputs.

Yes if you load the ceram up with all of that, eventually you will need to add an auxiliary power sources.

[Nick Gardner]

Hi Stuart,

Thanks for the reply. OK, right angle connectors not so bad, I can live with that.

OK, you guys decided to use DINs, they are small. I think the cold thing is reaching... :)

Mini XLRs are just dinky, the cables into them are small, and get moved around a bunch, the cables break- there is a reason everyone uses normal XLRs, from radio to stage, to film - they are durable. I am not a sound guy so I leave it to them.

I have to disagree with you on the 4 pin power source thing. So a 14v ni-cad belt battery can't handle 10 amps or so? Nicad block batteries? 12volt gell cells that will start a car?

Loading a camera up with "all that" is whats on the camera 80% of the time I shoot. Thats whats on a camera on any movie or tv show with a real budget.

So, thanks for the info, you guys seem to know what you're doing, so maybe you thought this thru :) I probably overreacted to change, after every AC, and DIT I know went ,"why the hell would they do that?".

Looking forward to seeing more great footage,

Nick

[Rocco Schult]

Nick,

the employees at RED everybody have their abilities and know what they're doing - at least those who post on the forum.

Still I am with you or the other people you might have asked, and don't get why especially those connectors which are not difficult have been exchanged to absolutely non-standard and non-available, while the weak ones (USB and HDMI) are left to standard. Weird.
But they exchanged the display connectors to Lemo instead of the prior Hirose, thats a major improvement I believe.


half of you want standard connectors. simon doesnt want standard connectors. maybe everything should just be wireless :)

What about the other half ? I don't remember any question....

But its not a real problem, its a real adapter.
Was thinking of drilling the right plate and soldering real BNCs in there.
I'm hopeful there might be enough space in there. Think of some nice Canare BNCs in there...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/1181_1193222981.jpg

Yeah I know, warranty and stuff, I hear you. But still, looks like sturdy, not ?

Jarred, a question: if I were to unscrew just a few screws, not dismounting the unit (!) - would it harm the warranty ? Just have another idea. Putting something else on and putting screws back in, just to use the mounting on the cam (permanently, not via a stud or noga). Like the focus hook - I think a case screw has to be unscrewed, correct ?

[Kevin Lang]

We supply adaptors cables ..... and can certainly supply spares if you need them.

When its freezing cold or wet, those four compact, positive lock, push pull connectors that replace BNC's might just be seen in an entirely different light :matrix:

Two words Global Warming! Lets get some real bnc connectors on there huh!

[Brent J. Craig]

Adaptors = signal loss

It's the law. (of physics)

Red One has some wacky connectors that were obviously spec'ed by people who have never been on a film set. They are certainly small and nice-looking. Usable? Not really.

Yes, dolly grips DO trash cables and connectors - in my experience about one per shoot week. We DO need to use alternative power sources - whether it's motion control rigs, flight mounts, remote heads, whatever. I DO NOT look forward to the numerous calls to specialty equipment suppliers asking if they support the silly Red connections. (nor to being the one responsible when their home-made workarounds blow up the camera).

The choice of non-standard connectors has taken much away from Red's universal acceptance in the production world.

I can only hope the Red Two is on the drawing boards, which will be compatible with existing standards.

Being revolutionary should not mean being incompatible.

[Øystein Mamen, FNF]

I tried to search the forum, but could not find any answer: Do the HDMI preview carry sound as well? If not, is there any plans for it in the future? It would be an effective way to make sure there would be sound at the director´s monitor.

[Stuart English]

I tried to search the forum, but could not find any answer: Do the HDMI preview carry sound as well? If not, is there any plans for it in the future? It would be an effective way to make sure there would be sound at the director´s monitor.

Not at the moment Istfan.

[luis bustamante]

Not at the moment Istfan.

But it will be enabled in a future build, right?

thanks

[Jamie Metzger]

Hey,
thank you....very helpful. I will probably refer back to it many times.

Jamie

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Just get the ET video breakout box... Or the Toys4Red video AND audio breakout... Oh and BTW, we used the standard Red tiny connectors on the last shoot and they were perferct. We tied them up on the top bars with plastic collars (the mini ones like the cops use for handcuffing 20 guys at once) to make sure it didn't get pulled off badly, and kitchiiing! No assle...

[viking530]

we can supply free samples for you to test ,it is the same as lemo"s,but cheaper than them.
china manufactor.
add my msn talk about the details.polsun530@hotmail.com
viking

[Andrew McCarrick]

we can supply free samples for you to test ,it is the same as lemo"s,but cheaper than them.
china manufactor.
add my msn talk about the details.polsun530@hotmail.com
viking

Okay, do you really need to be posting the same post in multiple threads? This is starting to border on Spam.