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View Full Version : Scarlet "confirmed" 2K-DCI @ 2048x1080



Peter Majtan
04-09-2008, 10:27 AM
If You look closely at the main page www.red.com You will notice that in the animated banner Scarlet is labeled as "POCKET PROFESSIONAL DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA":

http://www.red.com/skin/img/index/scarlet.png

Given the fact that RED has trademarked "Scarlet 2K", one can deduct that Scarlet is going to comply with 2K-DCI specification by having its resolution at 2048x1080:

Image specification (from DCI manual - http://www.dcimovies.com/DCI_CTP_v1_0.pdf ):

a. 12 bit X'Y'Z' color

c. One of the following image formats/frame rates:
i. 4096 x 2160 at 24 fps
ii. 2048 x 1080 at 24 fps
iii. 2048 x 1080 at 48 fps


RED is pretty careful about which words they use for product announcements, so there is clearly a reason they used the words "DIGITAL CINEMA", as there is a reason to call Scarlet "POCKET" and "PROFESSIONAL"...

Edit:

DCI specs are targeted at format delivery rather then acquisition - which is why I have used brackets around the word "confirmed"...

jbeale
04-09-2008, 10:34 AM
Seems like a very logical inference. But I think saying that it is "confirmed" even in quotes is not really accurate. I'd say a number is confirmed when it's published in a press release or official statement, not before.

Jeff Kilgroe
04-09-2008, 10:44 AM
No new info here. Nothing has been confirmed.

I'm more inclined to believe that the sensor will be 16:9 rather than the 1.89:1 approximate 2K DCI spec.

Peter Majtan
04-09-2008, 12:05 PM
No new info here. Nothing has been confirmed.

I'm more inclined to believe that the sensor will be 16:9 rather than the 1.89:1 approximate 2K DCI spec.

Actually RED (particularly Graeme) have been vigorously promoting the correct use of terminology (which I do applaud):

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11186

Therefore they would be very careful about using such a specific term as "DIGITAL CINEMA" - especially in a banner advertising new product! There could be only one interpretation of the combination "Scarlet 2K" (TM) and "DIGITAL CINEMA" = 2K-DCI. But I could be wrong...

The sensor is unlikely to be HD (16:9) - which would not go well with the same combination of confirmed facts. 2K-DCI would also justify the use of the word "PROFESSIONAL" as there are plenty of "prosumer" HD cameras, but none 2K...

In reality the sensor is most likely going to be larger, with 2K-DCI portion being activated for capture...

We will see soon enough...

Jeff Kilgroe
04-09-2008, 01:29 PM
I guess we disagree then...

It's definitely going to be "professional" and it's a "digital cinema" camera, just as the RED One is. I'm still betting on a 16:9 sensor, just as the RED One has. Like the RED One, I'm expecting some form of overscan or look-around area. I'm betting the sensor itself probably has 2.2K active pixel width or thereabouts and records @ 2048x1152 (2K 16:9). DCI spec 2048x1080 is easily cropped out of that, just as shooting with the RED One.

I'm going to just assume that in terms of recorded data and working with the files, we're still looking at 2K R3D files and there won't be any difference between R3D files shot in 2K with the RED One and those shot on Scarlet... With the exception of metadata to identify which camera it was shot with.

DCI spec isn't the only game in town. It can be a professional digital cinema camera without specifically adhering to a DCI record resolution, as with the RED One.

Peter Majtan
04-09-2008, 02:36 PM
I do agree with You about the sensor being larger then the final 2K (whatever ration) capture. However, when it comes to DCI, I have to disagree...:

DCI is a specification targeted at distribution (rather then acquisition), so as such You are right about RED not having to comply. However when it comes to the term of "DIGITAL CINEMA" - all (and I mean ALL) new digital cinemas are outfitted with projectors having either 2K-DCI (2048x1080) or most recently (especially in Europe) 4K-DCI (4096x2160)...

Now it will make a sense for Scarlet to capture 2K-DCI (instead of "2K-16:9" - sorry Graeme...) in order to save bandwidth. Now 6.25% might not seem like much, but when You start talking 120 fps the difference comes to app. 35MB/s between the two variants. That is a lot of saving!

Having said that - Graeme was on another forum defending RED ONE capture in 4K (16:9) ratio - so You might be very well right after all...

Joseph Hutson
04-10-2008, 07:48 AM
If You look closely at the main page www.red.com You will notice that in the animated banner Scarlet is labeled as "POCKET PROFESSIONAL DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA":

http://www.red.com/skin/img/index/scarlet.png

Given the fact that RED has trademarked "Scarlet 2K", one can deduct that Scarlet is going to comply with 2K-DCI specification by having its resolution at 2048x1080:

Image specification (from DCI manual - http://www.dcimovies.com/DCI_CTP_v1_0.pdf ):

a. 12 bit X'Y'Z' color

c. One of the following image formats/frame rates:
i. 4096 x 2160 at 24 fps
ii. 2048 x 1080 at 24 fps
iii. 2048 x 1080 at 48 fps


RED is pretty careful about which words they use for product announcements, so there is clearly a reason they used the words "DIGITAL CINEMA", as there is a reason to call Scarlet "POCKET" and "PROFESSIONAL"...

Edit:

DCI specs are targeted at format delivery rather then acquisition - which is why I have used brackets around the word "confirmed"...


Is it Nab yet? I guess what we see in the "What we know" forum, is the ONLY "confirmed" facts about Scarlet thus far.

[/QUOTE]RED is pretty careful about which words they use for product announcements, so there is clearly a reason they used the words "DIGITAL CINEMA", as there is a reason to call Scarlet "POCKET" and "PROFESSIONAL"...[/QUOTE]

I like what you have to say here though.

Joseph Hutson
04-10-2008, 07:49 AM
If You look closely at the main page www.red.com You will notice that in the animated banner Scarlet is labeled as "POCKET PROFESSIONAL DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA":

http://www.red.com/skin/img/index/scarlet.png

Given the fact that RED has trademarked "Scarlet 2K", one can deduct that Scarlet is going to comply with 2K-DCI specification by having its resolution at 2048x1080:

Image specification (from DCI manual - http://www.dcimovies.com/DCI_CTP_v1_0.pdf ):

a. 12 bit X'Y'Z' color

c. One of the following image formats/frame rates:
i. 4096 x 2160 at 24 fps
ii. 2048 x 1080 at 24 fps
iii. 2048 x 1080 at 48 fps


RED is pretty careful about which words they use for product announcements, so there is clearly a reason they used the words "DIGITAL CINEMA", as there is a reason to call Scarlet "POCKET" and "PROFESSIONAL"...

Edit:

DCI specs are targeted at format delivery rather then acquisition - which is why I have used brackets around the word "confirmed"...


Is it Nab yet? I guess what we see in the "What we know" forum, is the ONLY "confirmed" facts about Scarlet thus far.


RED is pretty careful about which words they use for product announcements, so there is clearly a reason they used the words "DIGITAL CINEMA", as there is a reason to call Scarlet "POCKET" and "PROFESSIONAL"...

I like what you have to say here though.

Peter Majtan
04-10-2008, 08:17 AM
Is it Nab yet? I guess what we see in the "What we know" forum, is the ONLY "confirmed" facts about Scarlet thus far.

All I asked to be out in the "What we know..." was the CONFIRMED fact that it is DIGITAL CINEMA camera (so far missing in the list), not my deducted 2K-DCI resolution. That is also why I "bracketed" the word "confirmed" in the title of the thread.

M.Halsell
04-10-2008, 08:51 AM
So who is confirming the 'confirmer'? :waaa:

Joseph Hutson
04-10-2008, 09:23 AM
So who is confirming the 'confirmer'? :waaa:

haha you are too funny!

Joseph Hutson
04-10-2008, 09:27 AM
If You look closely at the main page www.red.com You will notice that in the animated banner Scarlet is labeled as "POCKET PROFESSIONAL DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA":

http://www.red.com/skin/img/index/scarlet.png

Given the fact that RED has trademarked "Scarlet 2K", one can deduct that Scarlet is going to comply with 2K-DCI specification by having its resolution at 2048x1080:

Image specification (from DCI manual - http://www.dcimovies.com/DCI_CTP_v1_0.pdf ):

a. 12 bit X'Y'Z' color



c. One of the following image formats/frame rates:
i. 4096 x 2160 at 24 fps
ii. 2048 x 1080 at 24 fps
iii. 2048 x 1080 at 48 fps


RED is pretty careful about which words they use for product announcements, so there is clearly a reason they used the words "DIGITAL CINEMA", as there is a reason to call Scarlet "POCKET" and "PROFESSIONAL"...

Edit:

DCI specs are targeted at format delivery rather then acquisition - which is why I have used brackets around the word "confirmed"...


Did you see this?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11428

I would rather believe this, than 2K "confirmed."

Johan Malmsten
04-10-2008, 09:33 AM
Scarlet3k was for usa3000 airline company;)

The other things on that thread... I don't know...


Consider that:

http://www.scarlet3k.com/
redirects to the homepage of usa 3000 airlines (?)

http://www.scarlet4k.com/
redirects to, well, nothing.

http://www.scarlet2k.com/
redirects to....reduser!

Make of that what you will.

Peter Majtan
04-10-2008, 10:06 AM
Is it just me, or is everyone else missing the words "DIGITAL CINEMA" in relation to Scarlet on the front page at www.red.com?

RED is not bakery, they make some of the most advanced (and certainly most affordable) digital motion picture cameras.
Use of the words "POCKET PROFESSIONAL DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA" can be explained only in one way:

Scarlet is "POCKET PROFESSIONAL DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA"!

Now there are plenty of 2K (2048x1080) and 4K (4096x2160) digital cinemas around the world (and more are being build every day!), but there certainly are NOT any 3K digital cinemas...

At 4K Scarlet will compete with RED ONE (unless RED ONE is going to be upgraded to 6K, 8K, or whatever X>4K), so the only logical assumption is that Scarlet is going to be 2K. This collaborates with the registered trade mark and with the redirection at www.scarlet2k.com ...

I think the thing that is going to blow our minds is:
A) The affordability of Scarlet (read it's cost)
B) What it can do in terms of other features and workflow concepts...

Nevertheless I will bet my money on Scarlet being 2K, whether 2K-DCI (2048x1080) or 2K-16:9 (2048x1152). And that is what this thread is all about...

Eugene
04-10-2008, 10:06 AM
All this discussion about what true 2K is is fine, but does it have a YouTube mode? :wink: :turned: :tongue:
Just kidding. I use compressor that I got with FCP, when I format for YouTube. Who cares if it is really 2K, as long as Apple's FCS can crop it?

Hey Peter, I am going to Mexico in a few weeks. ( I see you are in Mexico.) I saw the movie "The Runis." It sucks, but it inspired me to book a vacation to Mexico to see the real ruins. (The movie was filmed in Australia!!!) I hope Scarlet is for sale soon, so I can take it on my vacation in early May.

Peter Majtan
04-10-2008, 10:31 AM
All this discussion about what true 2K is is fine, but does it have a YouTube mode? :wink: :turned: :tongue:
Just kidding. I use compressor that I got with FCP, when I format for YouTube. Who cares if it is really 2K, as long as Apple's FCS can crop it?

Hey Peter, I am going to Mexico in a few weeks. ( I see you are in Mexico.) I saw the movie "The Runis." It sucks, but it inspired me to book a vacation to Mexico to see the real ruins. (The movie was filmed in Australia!!!) I hope Scarlet is for sale soon, so I can take it on my vacation in early May.

Hey Eugene! That sounds awesome!

I am actually located in the city of Coatzacoalcos in the state of Veracruz. Basically if You look at the Gulf - we are the southern-most point.

The good news for You is that we are the "doorway" to the ruins.
Mel shot Apocalypto 30 min from here. Palenke is about 2~3 hrs drive to the east. Tajin is 3 hrs drive to north-west and You have to pass by us to go to see Chichenitza (unless You fly to Cancun or Merida).

The good news for me is that if You do get Scarlet before coming here - I will get to see it myself. I have been going to NAB religiously every year, but due to setting up new business down here in Mexico and the confirmation that some major companies (of my interest) won't participate, I decided not to go...

The final good news for You is that if You do come and bring Scarlet (or RED ONE :w00t: ) - I will personally take You to see all the ruins and we can co-produce a doco about it...