RED RAW stills extraction

[Robin Balas]

I consider using RED for commercial photography as I am a commercial stills photographer venturing into delivering movie clips along side the stills. I need to know if it will be possible to extract a RAW frame and massage it in a stills software, or do I have to render it out as a de-bayered, graded still using movie software? If not possible today is it technically feasible to do it or is there something technical blocking this path? I guess when the SDK comes out some 3. party could write the software or?
Having the opportunity to export the frame as a raw .dng file or similar and massage it in Photoshop ACR or LR, RAW developer or another software would open up the RED revolution to the commercial stills market which is desperate to re-invent itself after the micro-stock developments.
Remember paying 60K$ for a camera is ok for what we do today, so the RED is dirt cheap in my eyes and most stills photographers have the closet full of SLR optics and only need the new 18-85 and a nikon/canon mount and the CF adapter.
Any thoughts on this way of using the RED? (or a link to a thread discussing this, I couldn't find any)
Robin Balas

[Pawel Achtel]

I consider using RED for commercial photography as I am a commercial stills photographer venturing into delivering movie clips along side the stills. I need to know if it will be possible to extract a RAW frame and massage it in a stills software, or do I have to render it out as a de-bayered, graded still using movie software? If not possible today is it technically feasible to do it or is there something technical blocking this path? I guess when the SDK comes out some 3. party could write the software or?
Having the opportunity to export the frame as a raw .dng file or similar and massage it in Photoshop ACR or LR, RAW developer or another software would open up the RED revolution to the commercial stills market which is desperate to re-invent itself after the micro-stock developments.
Remember paying 60K$ for a camera is ok for what we do today, so the RED is dirt cheap in my eyes and most stills photographers have the closet full of SLR optics and only need the new 18-85 and a nikon/canon mount and the CF adapter.
Any thoughts on this way of using the RED? (or a link to a thread discussing this, I couldn't find any)
Robin Balas

You will be much better off using good DSLR, like Canon 1Ds or 1D MkIII instead of Red. The reasons are many, some practical some quality related: better dynamic range, easy shutter speed adjustment, auto focus, size and weight, just to name a few. I can't see any advantage whatsoever.

Just my 2c.

Pawel
www.achtel.com

[Graeme Nattress]

We've printed 4k stills from RED movies, and they look great even on a large format printer. I think shooting Digital Cinema on RED, and then extracting stills is a good idea myself. There's no RAW still export, but you could do a minimal RAW conversion (white balance, basically) and use the snapshot button in RedCine, or spit out a single 4K tiff in RedAlert, and take that to Photoshop. I do that all the time for testing stuff.

Graeme

[Robin Balas]

You will be much better off using good DSLR, like Canon 1Ds or 1D MkIII instead of Red. The reasons are many, some practical some quality related: better dynamic range, easy shutter speed adjustment, auto focus, size and weight, just to name a few. I can't see any advantage whatsoever.

Just my 2c.

Pawel
www.achtel.com

I do use a 1DsMkII for demanding location shots in dodgy environments today, and if needed a separate shoot using our XH-A1 for movie clips (mostly web use - as anything bigger than 720p is not very good). I would like to instead of getting the MkIII get a RED and move on from basically a stills only business. Most use is catalogue or ads and very small reproduction sizes like up to 8x10". Resolution is hence not an issue if I am to believe the latest "hype", but DR could be although I doubt it. Anyway I am very proficient in tweaking RAW stills and Photoshopping them to perfection afterwards. I like to controll the environment and contrast ranges are never close to challenging the dSLR then and shouldn't be on a RED treated as a RAW capture device.
I am considering a totally new concept and way to do my business - offering new products to be keep ahead of the local competition. I can only imagine how good a business offering my architectural clients movie clips in addition to the stills. I might not go that route or I might, depending on what I see in real-life in a few months time. However I refuse to cave in and simply do the Canon upgrade train for basically no real gain and a lot of $$$ without checking out the RED revolution. I will continue to do all HQ stuff and big sizes on the Leaf back either on a Sinar rig or a Mamiya SLR for moving content.

The RED is although such an interesting piece of equipment that I might have to get it anyway as I am addicted to new technology and new uses for new technology. I might rent it out or sell it to local users if unable to do business with it.
MHO.

[Patrick Tresch]

Still export in RAW (redcode or uncompressed) would be great to have on REDCINE as an option.

I plan tu use color look manager from Kodak, wich gives you the opportunity to emultate the look on a virtual 35mm positive print. This only if Kodak integrates RED RAW file support in their pipeline of course...

Thanks

Pat.

[Robin Balas]

We've printed 4k stills from RED movies, and they look great even on a large format printer. I think shooting Digital Cinema on RED, and then extracting stills is a good idea myself. There's no RAW still export, but you could do a minimal RAW conversion (white balance, basically) and use the snapshot button in RedCine, or spit out a single 4K tiff in RedAlert, and take that to Photoshop. I do that all the time for testing stuff.

Graeme

Is it possible to download the RED software AND some short raw footage for non owners or do I need a user/pass to get to it? I would like to try the workflow and see what the still capabilities are. I will wait however to build 16 of the firmware is out and any glitches fixed.

[Anders Holck]

You only need a pass for the camera firmware. Everything else is available for everyone to download.

[Robin Balas]

You only need a pass for the camera firmware. Everything else is available for everyone to download.

Is there RAW (.R3D) footage somewhere as well? I can't find it.

[Alexander Christ]

You can download .R3D files from http://www.redrelay.net/

REDCINE, RED ALERT! and FCS2 REDCODE Plugin from http://www.red.com/support

[Jonas Nyström]

Robin - I have the quite same idea - and I will have the RED in two weeks (wishful thinking). I you PM me later, we change ideas and clips/pics.

[Jonas Nyström]

We've printed 4k stills from RED movies, and they look great even on a large format printer. I think shooting Digital Cinema on RED, and then extracting stills is a good idea myself. There's no RAW still export, but you could do a minimal RAW conversion (white balance, basically) and use the snapshot button in RedCine, or spit out a single 4K tiff in RedAlert, and take that to Photoshop. I do that all the time for testing stuff.

Graeme

Graeme how large is your output picture? Is it about 32 mb? One way to go is over QT. I use to do this when i put out frame grabs for print. Show in double the size, export uncompressed picture.

[Frank Jonen]

Robin,

I did the same thing with footage shot on a Canon HV20 and we used the shots for PR quite a bit. Printed them up to a one sheet. So my guess is you'll be fine with your approach. That's one of my reasons for lurking around here till I can get my own RED :) The RED's fps still beat any still cam at the resolution.

One of the stills mentioned is here: http://media.noushskaugen.com/download.php?file=mediapics/2007-lama-satisfaction-bw-01.jpg

Shot at the 17th Annual Los Angeles Music Awards (2007) at the Music Box Theater, Hollywood CA.

cheers,
Frank