Shoulder tripod shoulder tripod shoulder tripod etc etc etc.

[tj williams]

A nice solution for the RED camera in the ENG camera-persons world already exists and is arguably the best part of a Sony/Panasonic camera.

Of course I'm talking about the Sony Quick release plate. Also made and used by other camera mfgs. so probably not a patented design.

For those not familiar with the design here is a picture:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/751_1174408598.jpg[/IMG]

This plate mounts to the Fluid head wedge plate very solidly. It mounts to at least two 3/8 16 or 1/4 20 camera mounting bolts. There are a line of threaded holes underneath, allowing the SQRP to be mounted to the tripod wedge plate directly below the center of weight of the camera. The camera has a machined part which enters the SQRP receiver. Replacing the camera, just slides forward and click locks into place back on the tripod. The locking lever immediately frees the camera for shoulder use. When locked shut the red button must be depressed before you can pull the lever out to disengage the camera. It is therefore very difficult to accidently disengage.

I own several of these for my current HD camera. I pre-mount one on the tripod one on the Steadicam and one on the Crane or Dolly even in a production environment the speed increase over the typical Cine method is worth having in ENG type work it is essential.

It is a very familier piece to working press, and most Broadcast level video producers.

I'd encourage RED Team to develop a compatable mounting system as an option on the bottom of the red. ENG users will already have a lot of these plates

[Michael Schrengohst]

I went through many of those plates. They always got loose
and pieces fell off. And I saw a rookie once who thought he
had secured the camera on the plate when he had only
had the back locked down...I caught the camera before it
hit the deck.
I encourage RED to design a better plate that does not fall apart.

[Scott Webster]

TJ, if you get the chance check out the Chrosziel 401-120.

http://www.16x9inc.com/images/chrosziel/products/AC-BRIDGEPLATES.jpg

They are expensive but they are far superior to the Sony quick release plate.

[tj williams]

red n rocket. Yes the Chrosziel is superior, and as I remember compatable with the Sony camera bottom lock. I'm only suggesting the Sony plate because it is common, there are a lot out there so expense is low, and they are pretty cheap to buy used. If RED designed their own I'd probably buy it. It took Sony 3 versions to get the current one, so making one that is as good as Chrosziel is difficult. ps the heavy rod system is interesting but I prefer the Chrosziel light weight support...

Redguy.. Aren't the parts falling off the spring lock failures more part of the model 1 and 2 plates, especially the early one with the latch ear straight out? I also once had an early one's latch fail, with an ensuing camera drop. The new one seem pretty foolproof... but hey enough of a fool can drop anything...

My main point here is simply to bring up the need for a quick release system that allows the camera to balance over the shoulder pad and the tripod centers. Do you guys favor that???

[Scott Webster]

As the standard quick release plate is so universal I would expect Red to have factored it into the design for tripod mounting.

It would be a disadvantage if you have to physically screw in a tripod plate to the base of the camera, which is what we had to do with the Arri 19mm system. The Chrosziel allows you to go from 19mm to handheld in seconds.

[Gopher77]

We just got Zcuto's at school and man are they nice!

[Anders Holck]

Some oldies but goodies:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=483

Did I mention I hate the VCT-U14 system? :-)

[Scott Webster]

Based on the latest photo http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1152 the base is flat without the normal forward dove tail and rear connection. In the photo its mounted directly to an Arri 19mm rod plate. I assume it would be easy enough to provide a forward dove tail mount and rear connection that is compatible with the Sony quick release plate.

[Dominic Jones]

# RED RAIL™ base package

* Plate / Magazine Cradle
* Universal Mounting Bracket
* 8" Rod (3)
* Grip Handle
* Base Plate
* Shoulder pad / tripod plate adaptor
* Top Bracket
* Top Handle

I am assuming that means a system similar to the one that you're describing is in development.

I agree, it's a very important feature, not just for EFP/ENG work.

[Dominic Jones]

Based on the latest photo http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1152 the base is flat without the normal forward dove tail and rear connection. In the photo its mounted directly to an Arri 19mm rod plate. I assume it would be easy enough to provide a forward dove tail mount and rear connection that is compatible with the Sony quick release plate.
Remember that those are prototype units and there's a lot that will be different from those to shipping units. They're just bolted straight onto rod baseplates for ease of setup...

[tj williams]

Anders thanks for the threads, somehow my goofy search didn't bring them up
guess we are reinventing the wheel here, but probably good as they are in the throughs of of designing and finalizing accessories now.

Yea Dominic I saw that also.... just don'tknow quite what it means, hopefully there is a Sony plate compatable option. About Sony plates part is maintenance, I have several and they have less play than the wedge plate in my Sachtler video 20II... go figure...

[Dominic Jones]

No, I don't quite know what it means either! I'm assuming (but we all know about the problems inherent with that!) that it will either be an existing standard (Sony would be the obvious choice, but there may be licensing/patent issues there), or a proprietary system (more likely, in hindsight).

If it is a proprietary system then I would assume (there's that word again!) that it will be built to decent tolerances and be designed well - everything else seems to be. I guess we'll know soon enough...

Of course, if you prefer a Sony system plate, it's not that big a deal to get a Sony compatible mount for your camera fabbed-up - I did that for our Z1/Redrock M2 combo a while back.

[Anders Holck]

Just a few notes on the newest renderings:

http://www.holckowen.com/red/3.jpg
In this older shot you see the redrail without a lower insert. we also see the upper camera dovetail.

http://www.holckowen.com/red/2.jpg
A newer shot with the shoulder pad mounted in the lower dovetail.
It seems that the upper camera doveail of the earlier design in the top photo, has been replaced with four screw mounting points as in the bottom photo.

As you can buy the camera without the Rail, I assume there is also a few 3/8" mounting holes along the bottom of the camera.

What looks like a new thing is the big chunk of Aluminium in the front of the shoulderpad. In the pricelist the Shoulder Pad is actually called "Shoulder pad / tripod plate adaptor" which assumes it is one part.
Previously I thought the shoulder pad and tripod adapter would be two different inserts. But it seems this new redering implies that there is now mounting holes in the shoulder pad as well.

I still hope there will be a seperate tripod insert so you can get two solid 3/8" mounting points a little further apart though.

Anyways I guess the front sony shoe could fit nicely beneth that chunk of metal if you really wanted...

[tj williams]

YEs Anders nice eye, looks to me like it will only be a matter of the right hole pattern under the front of the shoulder mount piece and another for the pin in the rear? Perhaps they are already there????

LOve the body port cap!!!!

[Harry Clark]

I'll second the vote on the Chroszeil product. MUCH more solid and reliable than the Sony or Panasonic plates.
I did have to replace a part in one of mine at some point, though...
Cheers,
Harry

[Michael Brennan]

I'll second the vote on the Chroszeil product. MUCH more solid and reliable than the Sony or Panasonic plates.
I did have to replace a part in one of mine at some point, though...
Cheers,
Harry

Certainly more stable than the Sony, but the Chroszeil has a point of difference in design to the Sony.
The Sony has a pin that slides sideways to engage the camera dove plate.
The Chrosziel does not have a front pin. There is nothing stopping the camera sliding out backwards apart from compression of the rear shoe by a spring.

In normal use this is not a problem, but a sudden backward jolt with a fully loaded f900 was enough for the camera to slip out of the plate on a shoot.
This was exascerbated by wear on the edges of the dove plate on the camera (a very commmon problem), so the camera only had to go back a little way to be completly disengauged front and back.

What causes the jolt was the assistant releasing tripod sliding plate lock whilst camera was pointed up, the camera slid back on the tripod plate and hit the stopper with a sharp jolt.
Fortunatley we were backed up against a wall so the back of the camera hit the wall a few inches away which prevented it falling to the ground.


I still use the Chroszeil.

Mike

[Mike the beginner]

Certainly more stable than the Sony, but the Chroszeil has a point of difference in design to the Sony.
The Sony has a pin that slides sideways to engage the camera dove plate.
The Chrosziel does not have a front pin. There is nothing stopping the camera sliding out backwards apart from compression of the rear shoe by a spring.

In normal use this is not a problem, but a sudden backward jolt with a fully loaded f900 was enough for the camera to slip out of the plate on a shoot.
This was exascerbated by wear on the edges of the dove plate on the camera (a very commmon problem), so the camera only had to go back a little way to be completly disengauged front and back.

What causes the jolt was the assistant releasing tripod sliding plate lock whilst camera was pointed up, the camera slid back on the tripod plate and hit the stopper with a sharp jolt.
Fortunatley we were backed up against a wall so the back of the camera hit the wall a few inches away which prevented it falling to the ground.


I still use the Chroszeil.

Mike

I read these post and visualize what you guys are talking about, would it not make sense to have an optional manual pin that slides through the plate and stays locked by a pin on the other side. This could be used when you know you are not needing to make a quick/rapid change from shoulder to tripod etc.

Me thinks red will have worked out a perfectly good solution already. I like the type of screws and connections in the photos of the shoulder mount. Red have a great eye for quality of components. it shows clearly...most clearly indeed.

Mike the beginner

[Harry Clark]

Mike, you're right. I remember getting an email from a service tech that pointed out the possibility of the camera pushing out backwards on the Chrosziel.
What if there was a secondary flip-up-screw-tight rear safety bar like on the Panavision mount (I often wonder which came first; the Panavision or Sony design, because they're so similar) The Panavision mount safety bar was sort of an afterthought, and came out some time after the Panaflex (and the modern mount) was introduced.
Cheers,
Harry

[tj williams]

YEs!!!! THE PANAVISION MOUNT put the cave on the bottom of the RED.......