RED One Mission Statement...

[Russell Fogle]

Original comments Removed...

[Shawn Nelson]

I talked to Ted about this and he said there will be a Red One sensor upgrade available at the same time as Epic

[Shawn Bannon]

cool shawn, what else did you find out?

[Vincent Rice]

What makes you think that RED ONE development will not continue? EPIC is a different camera.

[Ace]

I think a lot of people are still conditioned in the ways of thinking by Sony and Panasonic and the such. Just because a bigger better more expensive product comes along, doesn't mean your existing product is obsolete. People are just going to have to understand that with RED. Especially not when your product is indeed upgradable.

Go out there and make images, tell stories, help others who pay you tell stories, whatever. RED ONE shoots 4k (for 17.5k) and its more than 95% of everyone here can handle.

[wshultz]

Shawn, did he happen to say whether Epic was a global shutter vs rolling?

[car3o]

i don't think many people are realizing, "epic" is a different camera all together.

[Eren Ozkural]

Ince the Mysterium X can be spun into 2/3 and S35 formats, im sure they can create a RED ONE compatible version too...unless they had a brilliant breakthrough in i/o aswell.

Since they are releasing the SDK and a firmware build that finally fulfills the camera's potential (that's the gist of what I got from Jim's comments) It's possible that they are releasing the camera "into the wild." Where third parties will evolve the camera in terms of software and possibly even hardware in the future, while RED concentrates their efforts on routing the old boys' counter efforts against the RED ONE with EPIC and SCARLET.

The very fact that RED RAY records 4K should be a clue that they are not abandoning the RED ONE.

[Mathew Mackereth]

absolutely - red is not sony - I doubt they're going to bury the Red one, or lock it out of upgrades just because it now has a bigger brother. That said, you can't expect every upgrade on the Epic to make it to Red One as i imagine they'll be two different platforms.

having worked with the red one a lot, i've already developed quite a fondness for it, and would be sad to see it become obsolete.

The continued firmware development has shown that the RED one's platform is flexible and base on which to build- I'd like to think given the RED mission statement that the full $17,500 rebate toward epic does not indicate the red one will die, but rather to ensure that current red owners/those on the waiting list feel they have not been locked out of any future developments, and have a real choice going forward.

parallel to this, i hope we'll see all three existing cameras continue to develop and be upgraded.

[Peter Karlsson]

I think its just a very very generous offer that Red have thrown in here. Sooner or later they are bound to release a camera thats "better" than the Red One. It just come soo much sooner than anyone expected. I don´t think Red will ditch the Red One just because they done a tremendous work getting a new camera ready in only a year from now.

If Epic costs around $40,000 I then can choose to upgrade in my own pace, getting a full $17,500 trade-in for a great camera that I will be able to use atleast a year before Epic arrives (Name another company that would have done the same thing?). Aint that the coolest shit?

Or if I choose to keep my Red, and replace it with a newer sensor later on thats super too. I feel that Red stands true to their mission more than ever.

[Obin Olson]

ok c'mon guys CALM DOWN PLEASE!

Think about what the RED ONE IS..not hat it IS NOT....consider yourself lucky that Jim even made it.

[Brent J. Craig]

I think we all have to look at Epic as the rental house version of Red. It will cost much much more than the Red One, have industry-standard connectors, support higher data rates and RGB, and just be more 'finished', bulletproof and idiot-proof. It won't be the kind of camera an average to midrange shooter will buy for themselves - it will be something you rent like an Arri 535 or a Viper.

I don't think anyone should regret owning a Red One, just like no one regrets owning an Arri 3. Epic is the top of line feature camera and will be priced to match. It will be marginally better than Red One for high-end 5K end-to-end workflows, but I believe Epic is meant more as Red's answer to the D21's and Dalsa's of the world.

I think we can all agree that certain hoped-for features have taxed the processing power of the Red One to its max. How much more can we expect out of a $18000 camera? I'm expecting the Epic will allow every possible output on every port. One set of framelines for the operator and another for the director while the AC watches a 1:1 zoomed, focus enhanced image. Scaled modes where any portion of the sensor can be used for any resolution. Higher frame rates and lower compression. Interface with third party decks and recording systems.

In short, Red has announced a big brother for the Red One. It takes nothing away from the awesomeness of Red One, it's just bringing the Red revolution to the big guys.

[Russell Fogle]

Original comments removed...

[pablano]

I talked to Ted about this and he said there will be a Red One sensor upgrade available at the same time as Epic

....And I feel a lot better now. That's really all I needed to know.

Actually when I first saw the Epic I thought I thought, "Wow, this must be their '70mm' camera"(I didn't really think they'd have a 70mm sensor, but you get the picture), then I saw '5k' and I thought oh no it's replacing the Red. But maybe it really is their '70mm' camera vs. the '35mm' Red One.

[Kevin Lang]

Simple fact people always want the latest and greatest!

[Brian Reisdorf]

i don't think many people are realizing, "epic" is a different camera all together.

No, that's exactly the problem.

A lot of people bought into the ideal that RED ONE was a new camera system designed by with the specific intent to stay up to date and top of the line over time at a considerably lower pricepoint than usual. Now RED's first major announcement in image improvement/resolution comes in the form of an entirely new camera that's over twice the cost? It's puzzling at best, especially when there's almost no case at all for the creation of a 5k camera (other than maybe being able to blast away 4k at some insanely high FPS, that and yeah, "F&%K YOU Sony"...we get it). To be fair of course that doesn't mean that a 5K camera is bad, it just makes some question the future potential of the RED ONE now that it's not the flagship of the RED line.

That and kiss off the any rental plans for your RED ONEs. Once the retal houses start stocking a camera that operates roughly the same, is lighter, smaller, (assumingly) provides a better image in almost every way, AND is still cheap compared to competing high end cameras, renting a RED ONE is going to be rather difficult at best. Saying it'll rent because there's still an HVX market doesn't make sense now either, because unless some bulletproof magic workflow tool that doesn't cost $17K comes out JUST for the RED ONE, then there's no difference between using a RED and an EPIC (assuming of course there's no major change in workflow).

After all that, I have to say Epic probably isn't a bad thing, it's just utterly puzzling at this point. Until RED comes out and details what improvements justify creating a new camera entirely and make it cost so much more we can't say if it's worth it or not at this point.

[laguun]

post changed: the post was incomplete, i wanted to express that i dont agree with users who think its mistake that red offers cameras above and below the red one, and i think its sad that some people complain if a better camera comes to the markets.

[iflowers]

It's all gravy in my book. I sent an email two years ago to Jim asking about an 8k camera. Here's his reply...

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: Big Red
From: "4k" <4k@red.com>
Date: Fri, April 28, 2006 6:53 pm
To: ira@filmservicesnw.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ira,

I won't say that 6k (or 8k) is on our horizon... we have our hands
full with getting the 1st one right. But I think once we have
accomplished that, using our experience to build in both directions
(consumer and 8k) will be well within our reach.

Thanks for the support.

My best,

Jim


>>>>

I won't take credit for EPIC but my mind's been on hitting the 35mm sweet spot digitally for years (35mm = 6k of resolution with about 1k of that res as actual grain)

So I'm thrilled, whatever the cost, I've been used to renting 35mm cameras for a long time.

[Ben Goldenberg]

I find it funny that everyone is worried about the Epic. To me it just seems like comparing Ferrari's to Lamborghini's. It is extremely weird that they came out with a 5k camera, but as far as rentals are concerned I am far more worried about the Scarlet. Everyone here seems to think it is a good "b" cam....yeah maybe on a big budget shoot. I was planning on using my red one for student level productions. Who the hell is going to rent from me a 4k camera, when they can buy a 3k camera for the price of 2 days of my rental. I am seriously scared of scarlet...I really don't see the big difference between it and the red one, warranting a 14 thousand dollar difference...Also, 4k is already overkill for most of us so....yeah scarlet....scaring me big time....making me rethink everything.....my camera is ready next month....what to do???

[Jannard]

It's all gravy in my book. I sent an email two years ago to Jim asking about an 8k camera. Here's his reply...

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: Big Red
From: "4k" <4k@red.com>
Date: Fri, April 28, 2006 6:53 pm
To: ira@filmservicesnw.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ira,

I won't say that 6k (or 8k) is on our horizon... we have our hands
full with getting the 1st one right. But I think once we have
accomplished that, using our experience to build in both directions
(consumer and 8k) will be well within our reach.

Thanks for the support.

My best,

Jim


>>>>

I won't take credit for EPIC but my mind's been on hitting the 35mm sweet spot digitally for years (35mm = 6k of resolution with about 1k of that res as actual grain)

So I'm thrilled, whatever the cost, I've been used to renting 35mm cameras for a long time.

I wonder who sent that to you... it wasn't me. That is not my email address. Not that the message is wrong, but I never sent you that email.

Jim

[Jannard]

it is a shame.

You obviously have jumped to a conclusion without proper info. What exactly is the problem? Maybe I can correct your mis-interpretation...

Jim

[Brian Kaz]

I just want the new sensor and 6 pound body.




---

okay, and the full size XLRs.

[number6]

I wonder who sent that to you... it wasn't me. That is not my email address. Not that the message is wrong, but I never sent you that email.

Jim

Busted!

[Jannard]

These are some of my personal thoughts and I seem to see them shared quite a bit in several other threads this afternoon...

In my opinion RED blew their mission statement today... "Modular and upgradeable, the RED ONE™ camera is a future-proof acquisition system you can build upon."... Had that been the case then we'd all be upgrading 10 months from now to a 5K sensor, higher data rate, etc. The "RED ONE B"... This is the mission statement that the company was built & in combination with their price point was truly what made them in theory "Revolutionary".

They are just now getting cameras out the door in quantity now, there hasn't been one physical upgrade announcement to the RED ONE's "Modular Design" conceived two years ago, and they've already abandoned that thinking and announced a totally new 5K camera? Wow... that didn't take long.

In all fairness I can only guess that they found that the physical layout of the camera had limitations and that they probably originally underpriced the damn thing... Accounting for the big jump in base price of the Epic.

The offering of the "Epic" makes me wonder if the "RED One" will be a dead product in a couple of years... No more supports, upgrades, etc. thereby forcing you either up to Epic or down to Scarlet, just a thought. Just like in Vegas sometimes you have to double your bet (Epic) or go to a lower bet table (Scarlet).

I would have preferred that RED made huge announcements today with a full line of 4K support equipment to backup their initial offering. Like 4K displays, projectors, post solutions, etc. This would have shown a company that stands behind their products more and offers a total solution that far exceeds the specs of the competitors HD solutions at a much lower price point. They still have a lot of work to do on the current system, it's workflow and it's ability to deliver product... EVF, etc.

What good is the RED RAY if you can't display anything in 4K? and it's specs already outgunned by EPICs 5K. How are you going to work with 5K when there's not a solid cost friendly reasonable solution for working with 4K?

3K, 4K & 5K quite possibly could be overkill for most of us in my opinion, unless you have a full line of supporting equipment & solutions behind it.

An Abrams M1 Tank... (by far the most advanced in the world) Has very limited usefulness unless it's got a long line of support trucks behind it!

Don't get me wrong... I'm not a hater. I love what they have done and are doing... Jim is a genius with a lot of guts! I just think in a couple of years from now they will look back on this and see that it was quite counterproductive to the company as a whole.

Who knows... Maybe RED will have more news releases over the next two days and prove me a knuckle head :whistling:

Cheers!

These kinds of histrionic headlines don't do anyone justice. Try to get some proper info before posting this stuff. The thread stays up (and is wrong) for a long time.

Jim

Jim

[Chris Parker]

panasonic just announced three or four new cameras today. oh my god, i just bought an hpx2000 two months ago (true). what should i do? they are evil? my hpx 2000 is now obsolete because the 2800 is coming out. damn panasonic.

damn any company who releases new products.

haha. gotta laugh. shit happens folks. red epic looks awesome, scarlet looks awesome. the RED lineup just got kicked in the ass. it's gonna be everywhere from major f/x shoots, features and commercials (epic) to high end commercial, film and doc work (RED ONE) to Girls Gone Wild in 3K - Live from Daytona Beach (Scarlet).

Shit yeah. Nutty. RED went from NOTHING to THIS in SUCH A SHORT TIME, it is astounding.

[Shawn Nelson]

The million dollar question I forgot to ask: after Epic is released, will the Red One still be made and sold? If Red is EOL upon Epic's release, that would be tragic to me for many reasons that I won't articulate unless needed. If Epic is purely to stand alongside Red One as comodels in a 3 camera lineup then that's awesome!!

[iflowers]

I wonder who sent that to you... it wasn't me. That is not my email address. Not that the message is wrong, but I never sent you that email.

Jim

I wonder who at RED replied to my email?

Because, honestly, I haven't read it since I received it. So....

[wshultz]

Jim, let me be the first to say THANKS! for the full trade in value from Red One to Epic. I love that!

Now tell us more.

[iflowers]

either way, I love what RED is doing...

[Florian Stadler]

So are the rumours of the trade in at original value true?

If so that's the greatest deal ever. In a year when the new camera comes out and you have been busy working it should most certainly be paid off. All the accessories still work. In a year you will get a ~40K camera for ~20K?

People are complaining? Am I missing something?

[number6]

Just wondering if this isn't like an automobile company that has a compact, a mid-range, and a high end line of models. Not everyone can drive the high end, so there is still a model for them that has the same quality built in.

edit: never mind... just read backwards and this has been stated already

[apoyart]

Yes, my Red One will be avaliable on the next month. We need to know what are the company plans for Red One.

[iflowers]

Busted!

I posted a legitimate email reply from the RED crew from back in April 06.
Perhaps it was a different Jim.

[Jannard]

The million dollar question I forgot to ask: after Epic is released, will the Red One still be made and sold? If Red is EOL upon Epic's release, that would be tragic to me for many reasons that I won't articulate unless needed. If Epic is purely to stand alongside Red One as comodels in a 3 camera lineup then that's awesome!!

Of course the RED ONE will continue... we have it in our brochure for crying out loud! :-)

We are spending quite a bit of time working on the RED ONE update. We expect the RED ONE to be in the line for many years. Why would we not?

Jim

[Andrew Kimery]

I think Jim & Co set the bar very, very high and have done as good a job as anyone in meeting their product goals and timetables. If having a product tier (a very consumer friendly product tier at that) gives Red the ability to deliver the best cameras they can, but it violates the letter of their mission statement (but not the spirit, IMO) what's the big deal? Looking at the big picture, looking at the reality of what Red is trying to do is that really a big deal? So Red One has a big brother. So the team missed some announced deadlines. So the post workflow is less than stellar. So the road has been rocky and bumpy and out in the open for all to see. If the new products announced today means Red can make better cameras and service it's customers better and continue to help push the industry forward, where's the problem?


-A

[Brian Reisdorf]

Jim, let me be the first to say THANKS! for the full trade in value from Red One to Epic. I love that!

Now tell us more.

Will RED allow rental houses with multiple bodies to turn in 2 RED ONEs for credit toward a single Epic? You'd make a LOT of your high end customers happy if that was the case.

[Ed Blythe]

I am seriously scared of scarlet...I really don't see the big difference between it and the red one, warranting a 14 thousand dollar difference...

Fixed lens makes a difference, non?

Chip size? Nothing I want more than to be rid of 35mm adapters....

Nothing in today's news makes me nervous about my reservation. Seems like an intelligent spread of product. Epic is oddly placed, but I'm not interested in paying the price tag.

[number6]

I posted a legitimate email reply from the RED crew from back in April 06.
Perhaps it was a different Jim.

UNbusted!

[Shawn Nelson]

Of course the RED ONE will continue... we have it in our brochure for crying out loud! :-)

We are spending quite a bit of time working on the RED ONE update. We expect the RED ONE to be in the line for many years. Why would we not?

Jim

excellent! That's what I thought, glad to see that confirmed

[Chris Kenny]

I think the one slight hitch in continuing to sell the Red One after the Epic hits is that the Epic is 40% lighter. Without that weight difference, Scarlet, Red One and Epic would form a more coherent lineup, from most portable up through highest quality.

[Gian Joon]

Thanks Jim for carrying on Revolution.

[Jannard]

Will RED allow rental houses with multiple bodies to turn in 2 RED ONEs for credit toward a single Epic? You'd make a LOT of your high end customers happy if that was the case.

Why don't we just give everyone we know two cameras (their choice) for free? I really like that idea... maybe we should listen to you guys more often!

Jim

[Häakon]

Of course the RED ONE will continue... we have it in our brochure for crying out loud! :-)

We are spending quite a bit of time working on the RED ONE update. We expect the RED ONE to be in the line for many years. Why would we not?

Jim
Shawn,

Did you notice the new(est) lens mount update to the RED ONE in the brochure? It looks just like the advancements they've made to EPIC.

I think RED ONE will continue to grow and evolve alongside EPIC for time to come... I'm calling first in line for the 4K Mysterium X upgrade! :p

[Bing Bailey]

Jim,

I think people just got nervous and worried. but since hearing the sensor will still be upgradable it should calm down

[danbrazda]

I think a lot of people are still conditioned in the ways of thinking by Sony and Panasonic and the such. Just because a bigger better more expensive product comes along, doesn't mean your existing product is obsolete. People are just going to have to understand that with RED. Especially not when your product is indeed upgradable.

Go out there and make images, tell stories, help others who pay you tell stories, whatever. RED ONE shoots 4k (for 17.5k) and its more than 95% of everyone here can handle.

One of the few who refers to STORYTELLING! Kinda important guys. Back off the techno-nerd shit. Find the right blend of quality-tech and quality-story-telling.

[Steven-Marc C.]

Why don't we just give everyone we know two cameras (their choice) for free? I really like that idea... maybe we should listen to you guys more often!

Jim

Excellent! That's just what I was waiting to hear! :)

[Anthony Gratl]

Why don't we just give everyone we know two cameras (their choice) for free? I really like that idea... maybe we should listen to you guys more often!

Jim

This revolution just keeps getting better and better. I'll take one epic and one scarlet please. You can keep my deposit on Redone.
Thanks Jim:love:

p.s. when do we get to move into your house?

[J. Eric Camp]

Hey Jim.... um... ho can I get in on the two free cameras deal? :innocent:


Seriously, I am not sure why this conversation is even happening. So they announced a line up. They are not going to throw the baby out with the bath water. RED ONE is a great camera and it's not going anywhere. There are some suspicious people lurking in these waters.

But back to the important stuff, I'll take an EPIC and a RED ONE.:wink:

[FractureD]

Amen to that acehole & danbrazda

In the end, people care about the story being told, not the technology used to tell it. Technology is a only a tool, and the Red team have created a system of AWESOME tools!

[danbrazda]

Why don't we just give everyone we know two cameras (their choice) for free? I really like that idea... maybe we should listen to you guys more often!

Jim

WOW... Sarcastic, much?!?!

[Steven-Marc C.]

Hey, thank you so much for the advice about storytelling, guys!

Now, where did I put that VHS-C camcorder again? :)

[David M]

Why don't we just give everyone we know two cameras (their choice) for free? I really like that idea... maybe we should listen to you guys more often!

Jim

What for? They'd still whine about them, trust me:tongue:
You haven't got any boxes of sunglasses stashed in your garage somewhere?

[David M]

Sorry, screwed up post.

[Brian Reisdorf]

Why don't we just give everyone we know two cameras (their choice) for free? I really like that idea... maybe we should listen to you guys more often!

Jim

That's hilarious, but seriously....If we currently have two RED ONEs in house, and want to turn them both in for the $17500 credit towards the Epic, can we apply both of those credits to the same Epic camera purchase?

I only ask because the Epic will effectively ruin the rental business of the RED ONE once Epics start showing up in town. Any major production wanting to shoot RED is going to go right to the Epic just based on size and weight alone (the extra $200-300 a day rate isn't going to matter to any decently funded job), let alone that it's higher res, better image, faster FPS, etc...There will effectively be no reason for rental houses to stock RED ONEs since (assuming of course) the workflow will be virtually the same. Houses with 5+ RED ONEs that have already spent $100,000+ on cameras and accessories and now have to spend DOUBLE just to update to Epics and stay competitive with houses who haven't taken delivery yet (who will now almost certainly cancelled and await the Epic).

You're effectively handicapping your early adopters who bought in early by forcing them to spend even more to stay competitive with anyone who hasn't taken delivery as of today.

It wouldn't be so bad if the Epic wasn't already better than the RED ONE in every way (and we don't even know full details yet), so congrats for sure on that....but the original question affects some of your biggest, most loyal early adopting customers, so I think it's worth asking again.

[Gabriel Winebrenner]

Ok, now that everyone that matters is happy to get the Elite by turning in there Red One for the Elite, can't we all agree that the Scarlet should carry the 35mm lens option and make this little little dude AKA me, a happy camper. :) And since the supposable $3,000 is just speculative, raise the price a bit for the peeps that honestly intend to buy into the Red franchise and make film. Although I admit my comment is speculative in itself, in that I really can't say if heads from Sony/Panny are in here raving about having a fixed lens so they can counter attack at a later date with a similar model, I know this is their wish, I just don't buy the threads I've been reading that they want a RED that is limited, just because it has RED on it, like a POLO shirt label, ...I mean just a label. This is my only wish. I will come up with the loot for the RED ONE if need be. However, I sincerely think that, you, Jim, will sell more cameras, by providing what aspiring film-makers need. I know this to be true. Panny/Sony already has a market, to which they survive by throwing specs around that show only minor improvements that are better than the model before. It's a game and is disgusting. I understand Red One owners not wanting the Scarlet to compete with the Red One due to their prior investment in the camera. But mass production was never what made RED it a success and I would have never been drunk, caring as much, and reading these forums like I am, if I wasn't a die hard to care. Let the Scarlet be like Mr. Porshe's VW Bug was. Reliable and did the job. Maybe not at 4k or even 5k, but at 3k. Everyone should want and have the best intentions for Scarlet. I refuse to spell check the above post but my feelings are on point. Good Night everyone. It's been a pleasure and much a party with the innovations brought forth today and I can only hope for even more great news.

[Russell Fogle]

These kinds of histrionic headlines don't do anyone justice. Try to get some proper info before posting this stuff. The thread stays up (and is wrong) for a long time.

Jim

Jim

My apologies on the thread title, you are correct it is to harsh... By all means Feel free to pull it!...

[Russell Fogle]

Original Comments Removed...

[Jarred Land]

My apologies on the thread title, you are correct it is to harsh... By all means Feel free to pull it!...

I am going to take you up on your offer. but not pull it, instead make it a little less dramatic as per your clarification.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

panasonic just announced three or four new cameras today. oh my god, i just bought an hpx2000 two months ago (true). what should i do? they are evil? my hpx 2000 is now obsolete because the 2800 is coming out. damn panasonic.

damn any company who releases new products.

haha. gotta laugh. shit happens folks. red epic looks awesome, scarlet looks awesome. the RED lineup just got kicked in the ass. it's gonna be everywhere from major f/x shoots, features and commercials (epic) to high end commercial, film and doc work (RED ONE) to Girls Gone Wild in 3K - Live from Daytona Beach (Scarlet).

Shit yeah. Nutty. RED went from NOTHING to THIS in SUCH A SHORT TIME, it is astounding.

Bad. I thought they are the lesser evil.

"Gypsies". :devil:

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

This revolution just keeps getting better and better. I'll take one epic and one scarlet please. You can keep my deposit on Redone.
Thanks Jim:love:

p.s. when do we get to move into your house?

Lol. :)

[Lewis-M Soucy]

For a second I thought I was on a Apple forum...

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Oh and when I order my Epic, will I also stand for a full credit exchange over the 6K Pharaonic?

I'm not gonna wait 'till I'm 70 to get one...

Before 2K is obsolete (as a pro movie standard, check all the post co's) it's gonna be decades. So 4K, 5K, 12K...

Shoot now. Red One is the future. Epic is the future with more experience from making the future.

Red One killed the F900. That was the point for me anyway. To afford making the real stuff, not some cheap down-version quality, stuff that can be sold next to the big players with the same credibility.

Epic, by the time it's released, will go through the same progress and evolutions Red One is now. So by the time one gets to run it no sweat, it's gonna be another 2 years. By then, Red One will be running and steaming like an ol' train. It'll deliver images like a chainsaw while Epic owners will be moaning on this forum about build 4 and "what about sound?"...

:)

Let's be creative and not gear-hungry.

[Steven-Marc C.]

Let's be creative and not gear-hungry.

I say let's be both! That's how we got here in the first place. :)

[fightordie]

So are the rumours of the trade in at original value true?

If so that's the greatest deal ever. In a year when the new camera comes out and you have been busy working it should most certainly be paid off. All the accessories still work. In a year you will get a ~40K camera for ~20K?

People are complaining? Am I missing something?

Yeh the extra 20k that's supposed to suddenly appear.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I got it, they trade 'your order' of a Red One for an 'Epic Order'...

Do you actually believe they take your used Red back and credit you with 17 500$? That sound insane to me???

[CJ Roy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I got it, they trade 'your order' of a Red One for an 'Epic Order'...

Do you actually believe they take your used Red back and credit you with 17 500$? That sound insane to me???

Call the guys in the white lab coats, because that's what RED says they are doing.

Pretty damn cool on that front.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

So you actually buy a Red One, use it until Epic is out, then exchange it plus money for an Epic?! If that's the case, Red is more mad Than I thought! When will Jim make cars?!

[laguun]

You obviously have jumped to a conclusion without proper info. What exactly is the problem? Maybe I can correct your mis-interpretation...

Jim

Hey Jim, the post went incomplete (due to server overload?), making it the opposite! I just noticed that and i immedialty changed it!

I wanted to say that it is a shame that so many people dont get how excellent the business model (with the 17500 transmitted) is and that its excellent that red offers cameras above and beyond the red one. Thats exactly the red mission statement IMHO.

I *really* appreciate your new offers, think they are GREAT addition and enhancement of your company, help us in business and i posted that in another thread!

The server was *fully* overloaded, and it seems some posts were crippled or not transmitted, i hope you read this because man, i *really* appreciate the new offers. look at my other thread, i summed it up what i wanted to say with the crippled post above:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11847

[Roberto B]

it is a shame, yes it is.. :angry01: reading some of you denying what you had been writing before.. no matter what you're saying now..

[laguun]

it is a shame, yes it is.. :angry01: reading some of you denying what you had been writing before.. no matter what you're saying now..

ehrm, sorry?
i changed the post to underline my point. we were sitting here with 4 redusers yesterday, and everyone agreed that this is a good thing.

reduser.net took sometimes 5 minutes to load and post and lots of server timeouts / database error mistakes were on all the computers we were surfing with.

I think that i clearly say when i disagree with some things red does (as the locked redcode), and in this case i have and have had the opinion that the offer is very good, and so did all 4 berlin redusers from different companies here yesterday.

i think i made my opinion now clear, and i regret that jim got the truncated fragment which made the opposite statement of what was intended.

[Roberto B]

no matter what you're saying now..
the mention on the 4 redusers is also very clever.. you do not need to post it twice.. no worries there..
are your euros ready for the new revolutionary camera?..

[laguun]

no matter what you're saying now..
the mention on the 4 redusers is also very clever.. you do not need to post it twice.. no worries there..

k.berlin, tafkar (of reduser.net) and thomas janze (who has done 2 fullfeatures in 35mm release within the last 6 months and will shoot his next planned project on red probably) were here yesterday to have a good time, if you want to know it exactly. thomas read the news and then directly bought an magnum champagne.



are your euros ready for the new revolutionary camera?..
next year, when epic becomes available, i suppose we might upgrade one or two. scarlet is a must as well.

Epic isnt really revolutionary in my humble opinion. Its a evolution rather, an different formfactor, a different pricepoint. The red one is and was the *real* revolutionary product, features, price, concept, businesswise.

it might be an important sidenote that we have a full hdcam workflow and cameras here as well, and i certainly wont get the >100.000 euros for the camera as credit if i might want to buy an F35 - and we gave sony *much* more business than red so far. The same is valid for our older arris, they also wont give us a full credit.

[Russell Fogle]

it is a shame, yes it is.. :angry01: reading some of you denying what you had been writing before.. no matter what you're saying now..

All "writings" have been removed and a personal apology sent. Too little too late perhaps, but it will stop any new people from reading my erroneous thoughts that have been deemed as negative and disrespectful to you and your company sir. Truly not the intention...

[laguun]

All "writings" have been removed and a personal apology sent. Too little too late perhaps, but it will stop any new people from reading my erroneous thoughts that have been deemed as negative and disrespectful to you and your company sir. Truly not the intention...

thanks, no problem, i think anyone knowing the board knows that i clearly state when i dislike/disagree with reds strategy - and with epic / scarlet i am really pleased by the products, the price (red ray and scarlet are, even by reds standards, simply awesome offers) and the business model.

i am really dsad that jim had to get the inverted impression - as i wanted to clearly say that i think its sad that many people dont understand how good the offers are.

Well, internet forums, and yesterday reduser.net was really overloaded and misfunctioning here. I only hope that jim or jarred in this thread again ..sigh.. i am saddened that they got my intended compliment exactly inverted, and i highly respect them for their dedicated work and innovative products.

[Roberto B]

it is a shame, yes it is.. :angry01: reading some of you denying what you had been writing before.. no matter what you're saying now..

[laguun]

it is a shame, yes it is.. :angry01: reading some of you denying what you had been writing before.. no matter what you're saying now..

Hello again filmmakers gang,

i think i made our position very clear and now explained often enough why the truncated message was giving the opposite impression of what we intended to say.

Therefore i corrected the mistake by correcting the shortened post. I think you might consider now that our opinion on the topic is clear: we see scarlet and epic as fulfilling the red mission statement, as does the upgradeable sensor for the one.

It seems to make sense that you now end your repetitive attacks - We expressed our position on the topic clearly on another thread we started.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11847

The defective post on this thread went unnoticed until some users aked us why we had posted opposing things.

We saw that the truncated post would be exactly misunderstandable (what you probably did, as did jim), changed it at once, are sad that jim & jarred had to get a wrong feedback impression from us. no big deal, internet forums cant replacer face to face talks.

[michael zaletel]

Epic isnt really revolutionary in my humble opinion. Its a evolution rather, an different formfactor, a different pricepoint.

Laguun, I agree the EPIC isn't revolutionary. IMHO, they'll need to "spice things up" a bit to justify the higher price. And I believe they will.

-shooter

[Nick Wolf]

Film Makers Gang - ENough is ENough - The record is skipping - Give the guy a break and let it go.


DogDay

[Roberto B]

i just don't believe in edits with a delay of 20 hours and 15 minutes.. open your eyes people.. a good warning is never enough..

[laguun]

i just don't believe in edits with a delay of 20 hours and 15 minutes.. open your eyes people.. a good warning is never enough..

filmmaker, its good now. relax.

[Roberto B]

absolutely relaxed.. you know.. you're not alone..

[Gordon Prince]

Yes, that now...


filmmaker, its good now. relax.It means a lot :biggrin: