Nervous Nellies...

[Jannard]

Please relax on it a bit...

RED ONE gets a full sensor upgrade after Epic ships.

The RED ONE isn't going anywhere.

Get some real info before jumping the Panic Button.

Jim

[Chris Parker]

been waiting for you to tell it like it is jim. put a little perspective on things.

keep the new threads a comin'

[Shawn Bannon]

awesome. lets hear some more info.

[Ace]

It does seem as though despite REDs attempt to re-educate and unlearn the market about the manufacturer-consumer relationship, some people are still conditioned by "the other players"..

[Tim Bradley]

Jim thanks for the reassurance.

So where do we get the real info from then ? :)

[IAN SUN]

Great news. Can you give us some aprox. price ranges on the big three?

You hit a home run today Jim.

[Shawn Nelson]

hey hey, I'm a Nellie, I ain't nervous :-)

[Brandon Fraley]

i think things will settle down pretty quick. the vocal minority will feel better in a few days as more info gets out.

i'd agree with them, except that the arguments against Jim and co don't even seem terribly valid assuming they were accurate... which they're not.

oh well, back to waiting for my email confirmation...

[Luis Ortiz]

I've been looking forward to the NAB surprises for the past few months. Today came and after being bombarded with so many surprises, I suddenly felt like i was punched in the stomach. While on the floor wondering what just happened, I hear a voice telling me to get up. It's Jim, pulling me back up encouraging me to stay on both feet.

Alright now, I'm listening.

[Warren Kommers]

with all due respect.....what did you expect? You know how these forums get.

waiting to post my thoughts after details.....

[Emanuel A.]

Yes, we your loyal Nellies are waiting. Thanks for your care.

[Craig Meadows]

Ah, a pat on the back with a good felt sense of reassurement - just what us nervous nellies needed!

[Jannard]

Jim thanks for the reassurance.

So where do we get the real info from then ? :)

Just ask the question. But people here don't ask first, they just assume the worst and hit the "Submit Reply" button.

It is pretty frustrating to come from the show, where everyone is happy, to reading so many posts that make negative assumptions from absolutely no info.

Do you think we went from doing everything from the customer's point of view... into thinking up devious ways to screw our customers overnight?

Sometimes this board makes me shake my head...

Jim

[Gian Joon]

Big Brother Epic's arrival will only help Redone. Great news.

[Shawn Bannon]

what are some of the improvements in the NEW Mysterium X Sensor?

[Emanuel A.]

Jim,

The temptation is big and you're becoming too much big in this industry. We do not want more Arris, Cookes, Zeiss, Sonys, Dalsas or whatever. Just you the same Jim, as usual. The same to who we have given all our support and financial contribution for this dream called RED ONE. It's our baby, the Nellies' baby too...

Nelly #111
Nelly #647

[Shawn Bannon]

Also when are you going to tell us who makes your Prime lenses? and that 18-85mm, they look insane.

[Ace]

Just ask the question. But people here don't ask first, they just assume the worst and hit the "Submit Reply" button.

It is pretty frustrating to come from the show, where everyone is happy, to reading so many posts that make negative assumptions from absolutely no info.

Do you think we went from doing everything from the customer's point of view... into thinking up devious ways to screw our customers overnight?

Sometimes this board makes me shake my head...

Jim


Its the internet :-)

The ubiquitous Helvetica typeface gives every voice here the same weight and decor, but rest assured, the voices are neither equal or loud.

You and the team hit the ball out of the park this year!

[Gunleik Groven]

Feel a bit stupid for posting this all over, but:

That was a bunch of fantastic news!

Charlie and me are really happy! :)

Have a good one, you deserve it, and I'm amazed by your employees who have been able NOT to spill the beans!

Cheers!

Gunleik
(Would have loved a whisky and a cigar, but smokes a rolled cigarette and grabbes a beer...)

[Bing Bailey]

I put my hand up. I'm guilty I jumped to conclusions in the anticipation of this morning. I guess you guys are busy building new markets and we have too much internet time on our hands. still you have a passionate bunch of people. can't be all bad

[Nick Wolf]

Jim,...Way off Topic, but its late so why not?

Try to understand and see it as part of the relationship we have here its more than products and sales and tecnology it is centered around faith...In you.

You have earned that time and again yet people are damaged, burned from life, the industry, etc its no excuse but it is hard to let go of the negitive and suspicious way of filtering everything, and you are right its a pity and a shame...Maybe a waste of your time and efforts or maybe we will learn to trust and feel the power and freedom in that....I can see you feeling bitter by people not getting what its really about...Myself included I must admit and apologize to you and the team.

I am sorry for being a negative prick!

My Mother lives in L.A. she leaves her doors unlocked, I asked her why are you out of your mind...Her answer " I dont want to live in a cage if someone wants to rob me ultimately its their loss not mine, I refuse to always be on my guard, life is too short to be a slave to fear"

You are right. Sorry for questioning the sincerity of your quest. I feel your pain. I would never stop and reach out to people if I were in your position and thats what makes your behavior nobel. I would on the contrary pull a Brando and turn my back on humanity once and for all so why should you care about us if we dont even appreiciate that you do in the first place. I guess thats the question.

DogDay.

[Hayden Rivers]

Having a 4k Sensor or a 5k sensor doesn't mean that you can't be successful.

There was a barrier to getting people to watch DV content. DV sucked and even if people couldn't verbalize the difference, they knew it subconsciously.

The Red One has passed that barrier. It's a gorgeous image that lets you do slow-mo, depth of field, and is high resolution enough to make people want to watch it. DV didn't have that. HDV didn't have all of that. The Panasonic HVX was close (IMHO) but wasn't good enough.

Once again, in my humble opinion, the Red One has crossed a barrier that some of haven't realized yet but that the audience of people that don't know video from celluloid does understand.

The game has changed. These guys changed the game.

You can go make Star Wars now. If you can go get the actors and you're determined to get the skills. Take that Red Footage and send it though Magic Bullets or whatever is up to date these days and Go Make Episode IV. Do it. Literally, 4k or 5k or Red Two or Sony Red One clone, or Panasonic Red Zero clone or whatever means maybe 0.001% when it comes to making your Star Wars at this point. A year ago, everyone would say "Oh it's just the tools." Tell that to my mom. She's going to know there's something funny about this "digital movie."

But now.... Go make Star Wars. And if you don't like Star Wars, go make Casablanca. Even if only you and your brother see it, go make a MOVIE. If it's the greatest movie in the world, who cares if you get the props and the money and fame. Unless that's why you make movies and shoot footage and why you get hyped up about this stuff. Because if it is, that's cool. I used to have that stuff mixed in their with the pure love. It goes away as you begin to rely less and less on what other people think about you and rely more and more on what you think about yourself.

Guys, it's the freaking golden age. The Red people are a miracle. Yeah, there's no point in just having a love fest. But if we could step back and see how things are, just imagine going back to 1970 and letting those filmmakers see the miracles we can work with now. Do you really think they'd get caught up in the details of not getting 100% what they thought they were getting? No way.

Perspective. Sometimes, you gotta love Capitalism.

Go make Star Wars. I want to see some Red Movies.

[Gunleik Groven]

Feel a bit stupid for posting this all over, but:

That was a bunch of fantastic news!

Charlie and me are really happy! :)

Have a good one, you deserve it, and I'm amazed by your employees who have been able NOT to spill the beans!

Cheers!

Gunleik
(Would have loved a whisky and a cigar, but smokes a rolled cigarette and grabbes a beer...)

[Denis Haineault]

Just ask the question. But people here don't ask first, they just assume the worst and hit the "Submit Reply" button.

It is pretty frustrating to come from the show, where everyone is happy, to reading so many posts that make negative assumptions from absolutely no info.

Do you think we went from doing everything from the customer's point of view... into thinking up devious ways to screw our customers overnight?

Sometimes this board makes me shake my head...

Jim

You weren't the only one shaking your head from the crap some people posted today Jim. *sigh* the maturity level sometimes just isn't there.

Myself I was quite thrilled to read about the goodies that came out today. I give you all a big pat on the back and wish I could be there to share a few bottles of MacAllan with you and the boys.

cheers,
Denis

[Nick Wolf]

Nice posts guys! A toast to you and the well spoken words to take into consideration!

Cheers,

DogDay

[Steven Blye]

Just ask the question.
Jim

Hi Jim,

Its my hope that Scarlet will have Genlock as I'm pursuing producing 3D. Along the same lines, needing two cameras, I'm optomistic that the under $3000 price range is correct.

Could you confirm?

I'm blown away the evo/revolution. A bit of a lurker here, as I'm an actor first, but just wanted to express my gratitude as well.

Thanks,

Steven :detective2:

[ericyoung]

...It is pretty frustrating to come from the show, where everyone is happy, to reading so many posts that make negative assumptions from absolutely no info.

Do you think we went from doing everything from the customer's point of view... into thinking up devious ways to screw our customers overnight?

Sometimes this board makes me shake my head...

Jim

I feel your frustration, but it's the nature of the beast when you opened up the camera development to the whole world on this forum!

Everybody and their dog is here, so you're going to get the usual bell curves with extremes ranging from the wildly pessimistic, negative and skeptical to the over the top pie-in-the-skyers and plain impossible without alien technology aspirations!

Unfortunately the extremes also tend to be the loudest and quickest to judge with mere rumours or incomplete information. Just look out for the quietly enthusiastic guys amongst us, constructively criticising problems but also appreciatively applauding the positives and achievements as they come.

Just hang in there and the amazing films and other projects completed with the cameras will prove you right in the end.

[Justin A. Lincoln]

I dunno, looks pretty neat to me. Must've been a blast to built.

[Nick Wolf]

Everyone and his Dog - Cute.

[Brook Willard]

But I hear the footage was noisy!!! :) I'm so freakin' kidding, guys...

People are too quick to panic sometimes. The internet spawns FUD.

[Pierce Cook]

Hey Jim,

First, Congratulations, Congratulations, Congratulations. I wasn't able to be at NAB but I have a few friends who were and they had a blast! I hope you were able to enjoy it, too.

I'll ask a few questions but I'm sure the answers will come to light in due time so no pressure on my part.

Scarlet:

-Is there on board audio? From the images it appears to not be the case, and I have no problem either way - just the clarification can help some of us plan ahead!

Red ONE:

-What might the sensor upgrades for Red ONE mean? 5k? Higher frame rates at current resolutions? Overall picture clarity and quality (not that it needs improving, by any stretch)?

Red RAY:

What kind of initial thought went into this? "We need something that can _______" - and behold, Red did it.

Personal:

What kind of high are you guys on right now? The energy in the office must be crazy!


Again, congratulations, it's exciting to see all the continued innovation coming from you guys.

Best,

Pierce

[Bing Bailey]

it would be great if EPIC had a reversible sensor. one side daylight balanced and the other tungsten balanced. the best of both worlds

[Pawel Achtel]

Just ask the question. But people here don't ask first, they just assume the worst and hit the "Submit Reply" button.

It is pretty frustrating to come from the show, where everyone is happy, to reading so many posts that make negative assumptions from absolutely no info.

Do you think we went from doing everything from the customer's point of view... into thinking up devious ways to screw our customers overnight?

Sometimes this board makes me shake my head...

Jim

Jim, I haven't posted yet because I'm still speachless.

The negative comments are probably coming from.... ahmmm: competition :ranting2: What else they can do?

Well done, Red!

My best wishes to the whole team and I look forward to receiveing my Red One soon, upgrading it to Epic when it arrives, buying the new Red Lenses, the player, Scarlet, ... my shopping list just keeps growing and growing :greedy:

Anyone wanting used HDCAM gear? Cheap! :bye2:

[Buck Forester]

However, I guess that as a viewer of your potential kind of footage that I would probably like the HV20 or HV30 (3 megapixels BTW) or something similar just about as well as with the Scarlet. You can get crisp, clear, beautiful footage with these Canon's or similar cameras, and they will be even better and cheaper next year when Scarlet comes out. They are smaller and lighter than Scarlet, run on cheap and plentiful tape and will be cheaper to replace if your camera falls in the water.

How much better do you think that this type of footage will be with the Scarlet?

Fair question. I would say working with 3K is better than 1080 in terms of resolution. I want as many options as possible with my footage, including the possibility of creating footage that may be broadcast on National Geographic HD, or Discovery HD, or Tavel Channel HD, etc. I don't think the Canon HV20 (or the Sony HC9 I have now) is up to the resolution standards for high-def broadcast on these channels. I'm a photographer and I'm familiar with RAW and the post-editing options it provides. I obviously haven't seen any footage side-by-side (Scarlet vs HV20), but merely looking at the specs I think it's fairly safe to say the Scarlet footage will be el mucho grandier-o than any cameras in that el range-o. It just seems like it'll be a fantastic little camera that will provide "professional" (there's that word again!) results in terms of specs (professional content is obviously not up to the camera itself, ha!). Hey, I just think it's a great tool and I'm excited about it for the type of shooting I plan on doing. I doubt Universal Studios will use it for Spiderman 5 or anything, unless as a crash cam or a Spidey Cam, but I don't think that's Jim's target market with this camera. Who knows.

[Buck Forester]

Ooops, ha ha! The above post was meant for another thread! I had two Red User windows open because the forum is loading slow and I posted this in the wrong one. Call me embarrassed! Rookie move. Gotta run! *poof*

[Gary Stone]

nice to hear, jim. some people sound like if they don't get these minor improvemets NOW that the camera is suddenly useless.

THANK YOU RED for this awesome machine.

[sander kamp]

Just ask the question. But people here don't ask first, they just assume the worst and hit the "Submit Reply" button.

It is pretty frustrating to come from the show, where everyone is happy, to reading so many posts that make negative assumptions from absolutely no info.

Do you think we went from doing everything from the customer's point of view... into thinking up devious ways to screw our customers overnight?

Sometimes this board makes me shake my head...

Jim

I think part of that comes from having too little information. And some people will assume the worst, perhaps because they invested heavily in the RED One and are afraid their investment suddenly lost value.

Jim, could you explain the differences between the cameras, the future plans with the RED One and confirm the prices that have been floating around?

[Matt Setnes]

Jim, I think all the negative comes around the fixed lens with the scarlet. As far as I've been reading that's the only big issue I see, unless I'm missing something?

You did say people will be surprised, and you we're right, we're surprised. But everyone expected Scarlet to be in the "professional" field as you said it would be, so they're at least going to assume that even though Red is revolutionizing digital cinema, that any prosumer camera that Red produces will have an inter-changeable lens mount, regardless price or spec. My personal opinion when I saw this, I immediately thought consumer. Am I the only one?

All aside, I know things aren't written in stone and may likely change at Red's discretion. Either way, there isn't one product that of Red that I wouldn't purchase, so congratulations!

[Paul Lee]

"RED ONE gets a full sensor upgrade after Epic ships"

Ah, what? Free refills?

I spent a good part of this afternoon talking with an EP of a dramatic series on a major cable network who currently shoots his series on another digital cinema system (no, not Sony or Pany). We pulled Chewie out, while cutting our film, and he was totally into it. He was looking at the 2K QT proxies we were editing in FCP (hey Steve, are you listening, are going to announce something soon?). He seriously was impressed by the image quality and workflow we had, and not one video deck involved! Oh, and that's "only 2K," so sorry we can't show you the whole resolution.

Anyways, Jim, you guys kick ass. We just shot a freaking MOVIE here in Colorado and not one lab or Sony deck was involved, ever! Nothing but computers and hard drives and such. And we've got actors coming up asking us what we are shooting with and they are into it!

So, free refills? Ah, OK. To all of you who have not yet shot with a RED ONE, it is a movie camera! A heavy, metal, solid, wonderful, red-button and yell "speed" movie camera! Now they will upgrade it? From kick-ass to @#(*&(@*#^(^$!

My only complaint is that the new camera has a "cooler" name. Wait, guess we might have two of those instead, or in addition, to the RED ONE's.

(so, has my egregious attempt to earn favor in the inner circle of RED earned me a beta test of Scarlet?)

[Jannard]

Re: fixed lens vs. interchangeable lens. I happen to disagree on this matter. Better to have a purposeful lens for this camera than to open it up to what? A Nikon mount? How dumb. What would you shoot wide with? Every Nikon lens ever made is not designed for a 2/3" sensor! What are you guys thinking?

Jim

[Mike Van Laanen]

Red RAY:

What kind of initial thought went into this? "We need something that can _______" - and behold, Red did it.

That was EPIC unto itself, Pierce. LMAO

Jim,

I have to agree with sined13 on the head shaking. I am even more amazed at the scope of your goals. I have no question that you will realize them.
Thanks to you and the team,
_____________
-------------
Michael
MVL Films LLC

[Zef]

It is pretty frustrating to come from the show, where everyone is happy, to reading so many posts that make negative assumptions from absolutely no info.

Do you think we went from doing everything from the customer's point of view... into thinking up devious ways to screw our customers overnight?

Sometimes this board makes me shake my head...


Thanks for all the hard work, great announcements today! I believe you're on the right track...

I have been following RED since very near the beginning, but it's always just been a dream to me. I do some video professionally, but it's really just a hobby for me (I have a GL2) and I would never have imagined owning something from RED, it is just too much for me.

What you have done with Scarlet is amazing, I am very close to committing to buying Scarlet right away. You are right on with this product, I think your market will expand vastly because of this.

Keep up the awesome work Jim and RED team!

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jim,

I really enjoyed myself in the booth today. Thanks for being such a great host and making me feel so welcome.

As for Epic.. It sounds very promising. I wish you the best of luck with it.

Will you be at the REDUser party tomorrow?

Jay

[Emanuel A.]

Better to have a purposeful lens for this camera than to open it up to what? A Nikon mount? How dumb. What would you shoot wide with? Every Nikon lens ever made is not designed for a 2/3" sensor! What are you guys thinking?

JimAlthough not always in total accordance granted the most recent news, on this I can just say that's very well thought!

E. :-)

[Emanuel A.]

People are too quick to panic sometimes. The internet spawns FUD.People are too quick to have voice sometimes. The internet spawns it.

[KETCH ROSSi]

I try not to post polemics but reading some of the post after the recent unveilings (mind blowing to say the list), I truly can't understand, I think is because of my accent!

What I see is RED providing now three clear choices for three distinct users, and different markets, three cameras, three prices, three choices!

What is not to like and what is the problem with few people on this forum, I just don't get it ... or they DON'T!!!

More mind blowing is the fact of been given the choice of basically use the RED ONE for free till the EPIC ships and then return IT and get the $17,500 originally paid for the RED ONE camera body,
credited towards the purchase of the RED EPIC.

Do I miss something here or this is just simply the type of support that was promised to us from RED from the very beginning and FAR FAR MORE???

Ciao

[David Dennis]

I'm very excited by Scarlet just because I never expected there to be a RED product I could actually afford, and since ENG-style shooting si more my style anyway, it's the right product for me overall. I thank you for bringing it to life!

I've been following this story for years, always appreciating your dream of overwhelming good cameras from others with great cameras from your company.

It's an amazing story and I'm glad I'll be able to join the party, in an admittedly small way.

And I agree with you, I think some of the complaining is appallingly rude. But I'm sure it's useful since you need to know what the public overall is thinking.

It certainly looks like there is room for a niche between Scarlet and RED ONE; I actually thought your new product would take that niche (which I could not have afforded) and salute you for bringing a product that even the least affluent of your fans can pick up.

I do have two questions:

(1) Is the Scarlet price for a complete camera or are things like the batteries, etc, optional?

(2) What is the approximate focal length range of the zoom? Does it have any kind of manual ring controls for focus and zoom?

Thanks again for all the hard work of you and the other team members!

D

[Jim Hoffman]

It was such a pleasure to see the footage from the REDONE today. Man - I'm as excited as ever. It really doesn't take much of a walk around the NAB show to see how fast this industry is changing and RED is helping lead the way with these visions. Totally blown away. Nervous? No freakin' way! Excited? Hell YEAH!!! It just keeps getting better.

Thanks RED!

[dvpixl]

A year ago, everyone would say "Oh it's just the tools." Tell that to my mom. She's going to know there's something funny about this "digital movie."


HAHAA!!!

[dvpixl]

....exactly. 2/3 > slr lens?> ... wha..?

[Kevin Wild]

I'm here in Vegas and visited the booth. I don't think I'm saying anything here that is not public, so I'll mention what they told me about pricing.

Scarlet's target price (subject to change, I'm sure) is "under $3,000." I heard it several times in the booth.

The other information straight from Kelly is that the current plan is that the Epic will be around $40,000, BUT anyone who has the RedOne can send it in and as long as it works, will get a $17,500 credit towards Epic.

That's what I know...

By the way, the clips they played at the booth in the theater were nothing short of amazing. Seriously...I cannot believe that in a month or so (~2150) that I and my company will have the ability to make pictures that look as good as the ones I saw today. Seeing little web movies has not impressed me nearly as much as when I saw the clips on a large 4k projected screen.

[Chris Kenny]

What I see is RED providing now three clear choices for three distinct users, and different markets, three cameras, three prices, three choices!

[...]

Do I miss something here or this is just simply the type of support that was promised to us from RED from the very beginning and FAR FAR MORE???


I think a lot of people are concerned and/or confused about the fact that on the surface, it doesn't look like the Red One and the Epic are targeted at very distinct markets/users. It looks like the Epic is a slightly improved Red One, targeted at the market a lot of Red One customers intended to go after with their Red One cameras. Except that it's twice the price.

It's not hard to see why folks who've bought into the Red One find this somewhat alarming. Many of them won't have the money for Epic even with the Red One trade-in, and aren't sure all that extra money even makes sense for the additional features... but at the same time, they're worried that having Epic in the market is going to have a negative impact on demand for the Red One, because it will no longer be perceived as top-tier.

Hopefully there's more going on here than meets the eye and as things become more clear, everyone will become less alarmed.

[Silas Kyler]

First post here but I've been watching from day one. I didn't post until now because I wasn't in a position to buy a camera made by Red...until today with the announcement of Scarlet. The complaints I've been reading since today's announcements have been very surprising to me. I was at the Red booth today and the people I saw seemed to be pretty excited. Why are some people so upset? If you don't like the announced features then choose a different product. There are, after all, other options. (Pretty sure they aren't better options but hey...) I don't think when Mr Jannard teased us all with "pocket professional camera" he meant it was going to be a camera that does everything a Red One and fit in your pocket for 1/6th the price. Anyhow, I am happy with what was announced today. I do have one complaint however. :tongue: Why can't I buy stock in this company? I can only wish. :greedy:

Silas J Kyler

P.S. I sat next to some Sony guys at lunch today. I complimented them on their nice projector. When I mentioned I saw Red footage on it they immediately gave the line. Oh "that's not 4K" cause of "too much compression" and when I mentioned the F23 as a good product he said "oh yeah...that's for high end stuff" as if the Red wasn't. I thought it was a strange company line for Sony to be putting forward judging from the footage I saw.

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

P.S. I sat next to some Sony guys at lunch today. I complimented them on their nice projector. When I mentioned I saw Red footage on it they immediately gave the line. Oh "that's not 4K" cause of "too much compression" and when I mentioned the F23 as a good product he said "oh yeah...that's for high end stuff" as if the Red wasn't. I thought it was a strange company line for Sony to be putting forward judging from the footage I saw.
Especially considering that the F23 isn't 4K, either.

[JJDeRiomol]

To be honest...I think Sonny and Panasonic are very, very, very worried...

I'm a Panna user...and the news from Panny in this NAB were pretty poor for me.

[Pawel Achtel]

Especially considering that the F23 isn't 4K, either.

F23 is a fine camera as far as image quality goes. The problem Sony has is that it is an arogant, inflexible and unfriendly company that does not listen to its clients, it does not care about its clients and is not responsive in fixing problems that their equipment is full of. The customer service sucks, the purchasing experience is like extracting teeth and the proprietary formats kill progress, convenience and affordability.

Not to mention that one reason I stopped buying Japanese products is of their whailing practices.

Red could not come at a better time!

[Mark Pedersen]

One year ago, I stepped into the Red booth, saw the Red One and prototypes for accessories and lenses that were only promises. It took me about 20 minutes to realize that I had to make a deposit on system NOW before the line got longer. At 10:45 or so, after a few sketchy moments with the online system, Kelly graciously helped me get my deposit completed. I then watched the "Crossing the Line" demo and realized I just made a very good decision.

Almost exactly a year later, last Friday in fact, I took delivery of my Red One. That was after a year of logging on to RedUser, learning a tremendous amount in the process (and I've been in this industry for well over 25 years) and yes raising questions about fit and finish, LDS lens compatibility, and lending whatever insights I could... but I have to say this company BLOWS MY MIND.

The camera arrived and met every expectation. The order was complete (except for a couple of backordered items). High quality build. Anodization was great, everything fit nice and snug. The camera came with the latest build. Every component, every frame rate, every bit of media, checked out perfectly. Nate and the "guys in the back" busted their butts to help get my camera out in time to meet our shoot date. We shoot a high end post-intensive 3 day shoot next week and I have complete confidence that the camera will perform like a champ.

Today, I walked into the booth (no ran) after waiting in line with the OTHER Mark Pederson, (his is misspelled BTW) and find Scarlet, next to it Epic and and go... OH SHIT, they did it again. Yes, after seeing Epic, with a Red Prime prototype mounted on that all familiar bad boy silver aluminum body styling and I go OH SHIT, they just made my Red One (that I just got) obsolete.

Then I find out from Jon that NO... Red will actually give me full trade in value for my Red One toward an Epic and I think to myself...there is NO company on the planet today that understands how to treat customers than Red. Period.

CONGRATULATIONS to everyone to Red for knocking it out of the park today!!

I deliberately avoided the Scarlet thread like the plague but now, having seen how it is targeted, and the form factor, understand how it fits in the production workflow. For hand held, tight, action sequences, there is no equal.

Epic raises the bar. Red listened to all the complaints and issues. They developed a 5K sensor with enough resolution that after de-bayering delivers a full 4K resolution image at cinema aspect ratios. They cut the
weight, improved I/O, PL mount, are delivering a full range of machined components targeted at the high end.

The 18-85 is an awesome friggin lens. It's the real deal. No breathing, great feel. A big beast, not as hefty as you might expect for the girth, but a a beautiful baby indeed.

The clip on Mattebox looks great. Feather light. I want one NOW. (Please deliver a 104 mm right away!)

The carbon fiber rods are, well, feather light as well, and OH SO bad looking with the matte finish of the new lenses.

All in all, a fun, high-energy quick tour of the booth. Great to finally meet a bunch of guys in the flesh that I only had become familiar with on the forum.

Again, my hat's off to Red and the awesome Red community!

If only there were more companies out there like Red.

Happy NAB,

Mark

[Steve Gibby]

Re: fixed lens vs. interchangeable lens. I happen to disagree on this matter. Better to have a purposeful lens for this camera than to open it up to what? A Nikon mount? How dumb. What would you shoot wide with? Every Nikon lens ever made is not designed for a 2/3" sensor! What are you guys thinking?

Jim

FWIW, I thoroughly agree with your post...

Scarlet
3k, 120fps, RAW for $3k - and "keyboard experts" complain about a fixed zoom lens? And they complain that "real pros" never would use a fixed lens camera that had the option of automatic or manual shooting modes. That's news to the hundreds of thousands of professional DSLR shooters in the world who routinely change between full manual, part auto, and full auto shooting with their cameras. Pro television camera operators also routinely use some auto features and some fixed lens cameras for certain genres of production. Isn't it time for "manual only/fixed lens only" cine types to acknowledge that technology and media convergence have enabled everyone to shoot in multiple styles and sub-styles of camera work? Common sense should be re-named un-common sense, because a lot of the posts I've reviewed this evening on RED User show me very little common sense. I can think of tons of ways to integrate Scarlet into our national television productions. To me and our extended company, and our alliance companies, the announced tech specs of Scarlet are great. Scarlet will be another potent arrow in the quiver of talented and open minded professionals - while "if it doesn't have a removable lens" quibblers spend what could be valuable production time pontificating on these forums about what a "real professional camera" should have on it.

We'll buy at least six Scarlet cameras.

RED ONE
Our extended company owns six RED ONE cameras, with another on the way. We don't feel "betrayed" in the slightest by the announcement of the 5k EPIC camera. In fact, we're stoked about that! Some of our RED ONE's will be traded into EPICs, and some will simply be upgraded and live out their production lives as important tools in our tool box. Our RED ONE's have been fantastic cameras for us - used for seven months now in a wide variety of professional productions. We love 'em...

EPIC
We're salivating over this. Bring it on! 5k, smaller, more mobile, and on and on and on. We can think of a myriad of uses for EPICs. We'll buy at least four of them - maybe more. On some productions we may integrate EPICs, RED ONEs, and Scarlets.

RED Ray
Way cool...
We back up now to drives and LTO. To have the option to quickly back up to RED Ray, and to have the RR unit available for instant playback, etc. will ease the management of our files and give us a lightweight, mobile "deck" - something we can really use.

--------------------------

Having been around RED since before there was even a RED company, I am unbelievably proud of how much RED has been able to accomplish in such a short period of time - a little over two years. IMO it is stunning...

Having spent a few hours in the RED NAB tent today talking with RED Team and analyzing the breadth and depth of the new products, I can say I couldn't be happier.

I think its time for the wannabes, trolls, FUDmongers, and malcontents to either offer up constructive suggestions based on real world production experience - or stop wasting everyone's time here. In this industry, as in most, there are three types of people:

1) Those who say something can't happen
2) Those who make something happen
3) Those who wonder what the heck is happening

RED Team - thanks for being Type 2 above. There's a lot of us motion media industry professionals out here who are also Type 2, and who are more than happy to put your products to extensive professional use.

[Mark Pedersen]

Great post Steve!

Agree wholeheartedly.

M

[Pawel Achtel]

Well said, Steve.

[Rainer Fritz]

RED introdused a new generation of cinematography when you guys gave us RED One and with the new products you show us you will do this way straight forward. This new tools with this prizes are amazing, and I think amazing is not enough a strong word for that.
Hopefully your production line will can handle the thousands of Scarlets to manufactor, including the one I will buy. For this estimated prize and quality of picture is sure ok to get a good fixed lens. I thinking what the new X-Sensor will have sensitivity???

great work... looking forward...

regards
rainer

[Hrvoje Simic]

3k, 120fps, RAW for $3k - and "keyboard experts" complain about a fixed zoom lens? And they complain that "real pros" never would use a fixed lens camera that had the option of automatic or manual shooting modes. That's news to the hundreds of thousands of professional DSLR shooters in the world who routinely change between full manual, part auto, and full auto shooting with their cameras. Pro television camera operators also routinely use some auto features for certain genres of shooting.

Haha Gibby came to slam it down... :-)

[Jason Sinclair]

One day you will be talking to your grandchildren about this day. That's all you have to know.

To think all that has been learnt in red one, being recreated into a new everything from the base up, when that camera already blows everything else out of the water in that price point. It's not only a sensible direction it is highly warranted.

Oh my god.

Most companies wait for the opposition to provide a better model before they plan their next. This can only be explained in terms of this man's obsession to break through the film barrier... And he's going to do it. I can just feel it.

Your only worry at this time should be when are the software and computer manufacturers going to catch up?

So leave this man alone so he can do what he does best: Make brilliant digital cine cameras.

[Jarek Zabczynski]

If you can get a set of wheels on RED ONE, I'm selling my car.

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Holy cow, I can´t find ONE thing of the new stuff that I dont want.....

Jochen

[Russell Fogle]

Original Comments Removed...

[Visceral_IvaN]

Re: fixed lens vs. interchangeable lens. I happen to disagree on this matter. Better to have a purposeful lens for this camera than to open it up to what? A Nikon mount? How dumb. What would you shoot wide with? Every Nikon lens ever made is not designed for a 2/3" sensor! What are you guys thinking?

Jim
What about B4 lenses? although most these lenses would cost more than scarlet and thus in a way kind of defeating the purpose of the camera itself.

[Pawel Achtel]

What about B4 lenses? although most these lenses would cost more than scarlet and thus in a way kind of defeating the purpose of the camera itself.

B4 are prism lenses focusing RGB on different planes and not suitable (without correcting optical adapters) for CMOS.

I view fixed lens in Scarlet as an advantage reducing size, cost, weight and maximizing image quality.

If you don't like it and want interchangable lenses, get Red One or Epic. You have a choice.

[Tim Lüdin]

I'm totaly stocked about the new RED products.
I love the RED One already but the epic is the killer cam, no doubt.
The epic has everything that I'm dreaming of. It's like the RED One exactly the way it should be. No offense. The trade in possibility is I totaly great.
I will do that. RED is getting in full gear now. I'm very proud of Jim and the team.
Guys, you just did it.
I salute you.

Tim

[Dylan Reeve]

Even if the RED One were to remain exactly the same (physically, always room for firmware improvements) as it is now, I don't see that as a problem. It was good enough yesterday, how does the existence of another product change that?

[Dylan Reeve]

Re: fixed lens vs. interchangeable lens. I happen to disagree on this matter. Better to have a purposeful lens for this camera than to open it up to what? A Nikon mount? How dumb. What would you shoot wide with? Every Nikon lens ever made is not designed for a 2/3" sensor! What are you guys thinking?

Jim

I posted about this on one of the other threads but - the fixed lens is the right option. It can be designed to suit the camera perfectly, otherwise there aren't any obvious lens systems to suit the camera (especially given it's compact size) - you'll either have to cope with an increased focal length from lenses designed for larger sensors, or deal with a lens that is too big and poorly integrated.

To my mind the best option would be for RED to actually make their own lens mount for the Scarlet and over a small range of lenses to suit the camera. But in reality this is probably pretty impractical so a good quality 8x lens is good. A 12x would be better perhaps? But good fast optics are definitely the primary concern.

[Gunleik Groven]

Scarlet made a whole new market for P+S Pro 35...

G

[Visceral_IvaN]

B4 are prism lenses focusing RGB on different planes and not suitable (without correcting optical adapters) for CMOS.

I view fixed lens in Scarlet as an advantage reducing size, cost, weight and maximizing image quality.

If you don't like it and want interchangable lenses, get Red One or Epic. You have a choice.

Ah right, my bad :)

[WesVasher]

A lot of people seem to want the Scarlet to actually have Red One features. They want shallow DOF and interchangeable lenses. If that is so important the Red One is right there and you don't even have to wait for it.

Scarlet is a different product and I'm getting one dang it!

[red i wanabe]

Jim I'm sorry I called Scarlet RedOne and HV20's ugly mishapen lovechild. I am totaly cool with the fixed lens. You need that to replace the all the PD 170's and Z1's in the world. I just wounder if 8x is a little short. :biggrin:

I everybody's upset because we alll thought we had some thing special with the red one:love: , and then you come along with another camera and then suddenly we never look at are red the same way again.:waaa:

No seriously Jim it's alll good. Can't wait to watch red-ray in my home theater. I only have one little request make scralet look like the groundbreaking camera that it is.

And keep us informed on the progress of the RED35 adaptor. I don't think the letus extreme is gona be up to par. Yeah I know nobody mention any thing about an adaptor, but I am just being rude and asuming there is one:bleh:

[oldphart]

I don't agree with the fixed lens debate either. What Jim said, it's quality we're after and using inadaquete lensen, wheter they are non-fixed or not, wouldn't help. A quality fixed lens is great.
...

No, it is not great. It is usable for just one type of user.

I can see that there is great demand for a cheap point-and-shoot camera. Everybody is making them, and Scarlet looks like it better than most. But there are many other use cases where you cannot use a fixed zoom lens of mediocre specification. I would like to use a macro lens in a situation where a big and bulky camera is not practical. I would like to use a wide angle, or a f:1.2 lens, or whatever - possibly carried in a backpack, so even a free RED ONE would not be usable.

I guess the problem is that Scarlet is made down to a price rather than up to a specification like the RED ONE was. It may be a correct compromise business-wise, but I still long for a S-16 replacement pocket camera. Hopefully it will be possible to have the lens chopped off and a proper mount fitted by a third party, because the rest of the camera seems to be just about perfect.

[Steve White]

Scarlet: $3k - $7k (w/ accessories)
Red One: $17.5k - $50k
Epic: $40k - 100k

It seems to me that there's a price market in between Scarlet and the Red One that is not yet occupied. I expect, given time, Red will be able to find something that fits in there.

[Greg Syverson]

The bottom line is your needs do not always match the needs of others. Now thanks to the RED TEAM we have choices.

Choices allow more to enter the game

Good Job RED TEAM!!!!

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/2261_1202007594.jpg

[Häakon]

It is pretty frustrating to come from the show, where everyone is happy, to reading so many posts that make negative assumptions from absolutely no info.
I can sympathize with your frustration, Jim, but I think a lot of the confusion comes from lack of information from RED. Obviously this is a huge week, and you have your hands overfilled, but clearly with the release of three groundbreaking products (and in my mind, four - those primes look amazing), questions are going to arise. Looking at the brochure, I had a lot of questions, but I was fortunate to be able to hit the booth and get answers in real time. Had I been sitting at home at my computer, I probably would have been pulling my hair out like a lot of other users seem to be.


Just ask the question.
Fair enough! :sorcerer:

You started this topic with "RED ONE gets a full sensor upgrade after Epic ships." To me, however, that's extremely vague... what does that mean? RED ONE gets a full upgrade to the new 5K sensor? Is it a spinned 4K version from the new Mysterium X sensor? If it's that, what are the improvements? Can we get faster fps from the RED ONE at that time, or is it limited to image quality improvements? If so, what are those improvements? If it's a jump to the full 5K sensor, what incentive is there to purchase an Epic (sans the fact that the form factor is a cool 4 pounds lighter)? With the price of the Epic being more than double a RED ONE, I'm still confused as to how the upgrade process works and what one will get out of it.

Also, perhaps I've just totally missed it, but what improvements does the "legendary" Build 16 get us? I think Scarlet will kill the HVX market and Epic looks amazing, but way out of my price range - plus neither camera ships for a year - so I'm more interested in hearing about what news NAB brought to my current investment with your company in 2008.

Thanks for all you do, Jim. (And sorry I wasn't able to say hi... you must have been on a lunch break when I visited the booth!) :turned:

[Peter Kullmann]

Please relax on it a bit...

RED ONE gets a full sensor upgrade after Epic ships.

The RED ONE isn't going anywhere.

Get some real info before jumping the Panic Button.

Jim[/QUOTE]



Hey Jim and the whole RED crew!
couldn't make it to NAB this year, but shurely do have the feeling, that I've missed something! Anyhow, want to congratulate you and the whole RED team for this totally unrivaled performance you've been putting on ever since NAB'06.
Your announcements of EPIC & Co. are breathtaking in more than one way, and at first stunned (irritated ???? :pinch: ) me as well. Sometimes it's a bit hard to follow, even for a "very early" adopter :biggrin: . But don't let those nervous nellies get at you!

From our experience as a production and rental house, I can only say that whatever the challenges in building the camera(s), the business, the market may be, you've certainly made all the right decisions and are by now way ahead of the rest of the world. If there are still people out there opposing your concept and products, it is only out of fear of all new things and protectionism of their own benefice. With this conservative and often over-cautious environment in mind, I would like to make a small suggestion in that you should leave nothing undone to point out and prove, that RED ONE is not a "prototype", "first-try"-kind-of-product, with all the really good stuff (EPIC, Scarlet, ...) yet to come. It is a fantastically well devised mashine as one part of a much bigger concept, that is here to stay.

And that is only the beginning!


Wishing you a great party!

Cheers and best regards from Vienna,

Peter and all of the KuBe-team

[Randall Nott]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but there has been a terrible blunder in marketing here. It has been 23 hours since I visited the booth at NAB and I can't stop drooling. If I'm extrapolating this correctly, then the entire market for these new cameras will be dead from dehydration before the cameras are even released.

Also very nice to meet many of the regulars on this forum and put faces to names. You guys are the best sales tool for RED, especially Gibby.

[Scott M]

Just wanted to make sure this was being seen over and over again. Thanks for adding some sense to the mix as usual Steve. The "I can't comprehend it so I'm going to try and shame it" routine has gotten old here.

Wish I could be there, here's to what's in store :cheers:



FWIW, I thoroughly agree with your post...

Scarlet
3k, 120fps, RAW for $3k - and "keyboard experts" complain about a fixed zoom lens? And they complain that "real pros" never would use a fixed lens camera that had the option of automatic or manual shooting modes. That's news to the hundreds of thousands of professional DSLR shooters in the world who routinely change between full manual, part auto, and full auto shooting with their cameras. Pro television camera operators also routinely use some auto features and some fixed lens cameras for certain genres of production. Isn't it time for "manual only/fixed lens only" cine types to acknowledge that technology and media convergence have enabled everyone to shoot in multiple styles and sub-styles of camera work? Common sense should be re-named un-common sense, because a lot of the posts I've reviewed this evening on RED User show me very little common sense. I can think of tons of ways to integrate Scarlet into our national television productions. To me and our extended company, and our alliance companies, the announced tech specs of Scarlet are great. Scarlet will be another potent arrow in the quiver of talented and open minded professionals - while "if it doesn't have a removable lens" quibblers spend what could be valuable production time pontificating on these forums about what a "real professional camera" should have on it.

We'll buy at least six Scarlet cameras.

RED ONE
Our extended company owns six RED ONE cameras, with another on the way. We don't feel "betrayed" in the slightest by the announcement of the 5k EPIC camera. In fact, we're stoked about that! Some of our RED ONE's will be traded into EPICs, and some will simply be upgraded and live out their production lives as important tools in our tool box. Our RED ONE's have been fantastic cameras for us - used for seven months now in a wide variety of professional productions. We love 'em...

EPIC
We're salivating over this. Bring it on! 5k, smaller, more mobile, and on and on and on. We can think of a myriad of uses for EPICs. We'll buy at least four of them - maybe more. On some productions we may integrate EPICs, RED ONEs, and Scarlets.

RED Ray
Way cool...
We back up now to drives and LTO. To have the option to quickly back up to RED Ray, and to have the RR unit available for instant playback, etc. will ease the management of our files and give us a lightweight, mobile "deck" - something we can really use.

--------------------------

Having been around RED since before there was even a RED company, I am unbelievably proud of how much RED has been able to accomplish in such a short period of time - a little over two years. IMO it is stunning...

Having spent a few hours in the RED NAB tent today talking with RED Team and analyzing the breadth and depth of the new products, I can say I couldn't be happier.

I think its time for the wannabes, trolls, FUDmongers, and malcontents to either offer up constructive suggestions based on real world production experience - or stop wasting everyone's time here. In this industry, as in most, there are three types of people:

1) Those who say something can't happen
2) Those who make something happen
3) Those who wonder what the heck is happening

RED Team - thanks for being Type 2 above. There's a lot of us motion media industry professionals out here who are also Type 2, and who are more than happy to put your products to extensive professional use.

[Häakon]

RED Ray
Way cool...
We back up now to drives and LTO. To have the option to quickly back up to RED Ray
RED Ray utilizes a delivery codec, not something you'd want to use for backup. I'm still in shock that they've figured out a way to make 2 hours worth of 4K look acceptable on a 8GB disc, but they've produced miracles before. The point is, though, that regardless of if it looks decent from an audience perspective, the amount of compression that is going to be necessary to facilitate such a task is going to render it ineffective for backup purposes.

[Buck Forester]

Re: fixed lens vs. interchangeable lens. I happen to disagree on this matter. Better to have a purposeful lens for this camera than to open it up to what? A Nikon mount? How dumb. What would you shoot wide with? Every Nikon lens ever made is not designed for a 2/3" sensor! What are you guys thinking?

Amen, because I have a whole array of Canon "L" glass lenses and if you put a Nikon mount on the Scarlet, then I'd be pissed, ha ha!

[Clint Johnson]

If Scarlet was going to have a S35 sized sensor then an SLR mount would have made sense (my vote would have been to out sourcing that to Birger) but seeing as how it is a 2/3 sized sensor then I can see how a purpose built fixed lens makes sense.

An 8x zoom that is specifically designed for this sensor and held to professional cine standards (Jim says professional and I don't doubt him) would make better images than any other reasonable option.

I would suggest the equivalent of 15-120mm with close focus. Optical image stabilization would be nice if it worked as well as Canon IS or Nikon VR... not so much with the Sigma OS. The camera is so small and light that it would be welcome when hand holding at the tele end of the zoom.

The most important question I have for Jim is when can I put down my deposit?

[red i wanabe]

AAwww Man, Jim Do realy have to wait a whole year before we can give you are moneys.

[Redoscopy]

I agree with both camps about having and not having a fixed lens on the Scarlet. But if I had to lean one way or the other, boy it sure would be nice to be able to slap all my PL mount Super 16 Zeiss lenses on a Scarlett, toss it in my backpack and head out into the wild. Scarlett could be the "Super 16" to the RED One's "35mm" approach, with the Epic leading the larger format charge. I would rather see Scarlett enter the Super 16 arena than the HVX arena. But should it have a fixed lens, then PS Technics, Redrock Micro, Letus35 Extreme and similar adapters will have another camera to play with. And I'm quite sure that you will see those hybrid animals in mass. Either way Jim and the team at RED truly are the pioneers of this watershed moment in digital imaging that we've been experiencing over the past couple of years. My thanks and most sincere praise.

[Chris Newman]

I would suggest the equivalent of 15-120mm

I agree, please make it WIDE! Around 7-8mm on the wide end.

The only compelling reason I have to want an interchangeable lens is so I could put on an S16 T1.9 prime and make the most of the 2/3" depth of field. I will most likely buy one anyway, but I would pay extra for this option. (It would be nice to not have to consider using a Redrock Micro, etc.)

[Chris Newman]

If RED has trouble fitting it in a pocket, they could keep their word by giving it a removable lens and having us put the lens in one pocket and the body in the other.

[Daniel García]

Just ask the question. But people here don't ask first, they just assume the worst and hit the "Submit Reply" button.


Ok, Jim, I'll ask what, for me, is the most important question:
Does the new Mysterium sensor generation, AKA the Mysterium X, have a rolling shutter?

THAT and the post-production problems that are due to software inmaturity are the biggest problems that Red One has in my opinion. The post problems will be solved in time, no doubt.

If the new sensors have solved the rolling shutter problem, then the new Red Cameras are/will be virtually perfect!!!

PS: Count me as another vote for the widest Scarlet that's possible. Let those who want tele's add a converter.

[Jannard]

The read-reset of Mysterium X will be improved by about 40%. That means significantly less skew.

Jim

[Jason Ramsey]

Cool, so this will apply to the whole RED line, then? RED One after a sensor upgrade and the two newly announced cameras? Is that correct? Lighter camera's will definitely benefit from improved resistance to rolling shutter artifacts.

Thanks.
Later,
Jason

[Kevin Halverson]

The read-reset of Mysterium X will be improved by about 40%. That means significantly less skew.

Jim

EXCELLENT!!!

That is, in my opinion, some of the best news of all the stunning good news that has been released so far this week. 40%? Way better than I could have even hoped for!

[Medavoym]

Skew is a minor thing...

More importantly, will the new Mysterium X offer better dynamic range? And if yes, when you upgrade the RED ONE with the new sensor, will you be taking advantage of that or the DR will still be limited by the other (old) hardware inside the camera?

[Andy Jackson]

Skew is a minor thing...

Seriously? For whom?

[Teague Kennedy]

I am not nervous because I know..............

1. That even though Red One is no longer the flagship product, Red will not hold back on it's progress/ development hoping to sell more of the higher priced Epics. (See Red One used to be flagship and I figured it would be for at least a couple years)

2. This is not true:
The term "renders obsolescence obsolete" meant only in the "mid tier." If you want true obsolete obsolescence you might want to trade up (2.5 times more clams)

Sorry to bust your balls Jim. I'm still a believer. I infinitely respect what you have done, and understand the realities of business (business owner myself), but just want to let you know that we're nervous because we were really excited that you were putting everything into our product. (sure it is first of a kind and you should have charged more to begin with and I should be happy and shut up) But now we are mid-tier. Sure we can trade up, but if the price is 40,000 (rumor) then it is a different budget and not really a fair "upgrade" for an un-obsolete camera. I know that you need to tap into all markets, and I don't fault you for that.......But understand that when we are nervous it is because many of us spent much of a year's salary to be part of the Red philosophy, and we are worried that our little "revolution" has become mid-tier.

Still Epic sounds cool. Love your work. Understand our "nerves." : )

[Jannard]

Seriously? For whom?

By every DP we have talked to after doing tests on the RED ONE and choosing to shoot features, music videos, commercials, etc.

Nonetheless, it is improved in Mysterium X, which will be is Epic, Scarlet and the RED ONE upgrade. Improved DNR is another bonus of the newer sensor.

Jim

[Jannard]

I am not nervous because I know..............

1. That even though Red One is no longer the flagship product, Red will not hold back on it's progress/ development hoping to sell more of the higher priced Epics. (See Red One used to be flagship and I figured it would be for at least a couple years)

2. This is not true:
The term "renders obsolescence obsolete" meant only in the "mid tier." If you want true obsolete obsolescence you might want to trade up (2.5 times more clams)

Sorry to bust your balls Jim. I'm still a believer. I infinitely respect what you have done, and understand the realities of business (business owner myself), but just want to let you know that we're nervous because we were really excited that you were putting everything into our product. (sure it is first of a kind and you should have charged more to begin with and I should be happy and shut up) But now we are mid-tier. Sure we can trade up, but if the price is 40,000 (rumor) then it is a different budget and not really a fair "upgrade" for an un-obsolete camera. I know that you need to tap into all markets, and I don't fault you for that.......But understand that when we are nervous it is because many of us spent much of a year's salary to be part of the Red philosophy, and we are worried that our little "revolution" has become mid-tier.

Still Epic sounds cool. Love your work. Understand our "nerves." : )

Sorry to strongly disagree with you. RED ONE will be in our lineup for many years and get all the attention it deserves, starting with a sensor upgrade in 2009.

I think those of you that think RED ONE should be infinitely upgraded at all costs are spoiled. Actually, we are letting you do that!

Epic will be a limited production model. It has a new and completely different architecture. And we are still allowing you to upgrade from the RED ONE! The cost of upgrade is steep because the development cost very is expensive.

What exactly do you think you are entitled to and are not getting? A reasonably priced sensor upgrade or an expensive full upgrade? Come on... starting to be irritating.

Sorry. Just my point of view.

Jim

[CJ Roy]

By every DP we have talked to after doing tests on the RED ONE and choosing to shoot features, music videos, commercials, etc.


Not trying to start anything, but what are the solutions that the DP's are using when dealing with police strobes and those sorts of issues? If there's a solution, I'm all ears.

I worked with a few crew members of Game, the week before last, and I can't wait to see the film after talking with them. Crazy shit... in a very good way. I would think there'd be skew all over the place in that flick, after what they put the cameras through.

-CJ

[Andy Jackson]

By every DP we have talked to after doing tests on the RED ONE and choosing to shoot features, music videos, commercials, etc.

Nonetheless, it is improved in Mysterium X, which will be is Epic, Scarlet and the RED ONE upgrade. Improved DNR is another bonus of the newer sensor.

Jim

Jim, maybe you misunderstood me... I was saying that a significant skew reduction should be a huge deal for any serious shooter... which I believe is exactly why you improved it. I was just scoffing at the fact that Medavoym would toss such an improvement to the side like that.

-Andy

[Steven Blye]

Any thoughts towards making Red Ray with Frame Accurate Sync so that two could be used for Stereoscopic Projection? It would be a great boon as a forethought.

[Jannard]

Any thoughts towards making Red Ray with Frame Accurate Sync so that two could be used for Stereoscopic Projection? It would be a great boon as a forethought.

Great thought... we heard that several times today at the booth. We'll try to get this done.

Jim

[Steven Blye]

Fantastic.

It just keeps getting better.

[brandon herman]

2. This is not true:
The term "renders obsolescence obsolete" meant only in the "mid tier." If you want true obsolete obsolescence you might want to trade up (2.5 times more clams)

But now we are mid-tier.

With respect...

how is a 4k camera, with 11+ stops of dynamic range, shooting REDCODE 36 (or maybe better with the new sensor) "obsolete"? :waaa:

Is the footage all of a sudden blurry, monochromatic, or just ugly? Of course not. Are digital theaters suddenly projecting 8k images? No; just moving from 2k projection to 4k now. An XL1 is obsolete; your RED ONE is just fine.

It is arguably 'mid-tier' in terms of the RED line up, but still above and beyond almost anything else out there. (Genesis, F23, F35, Viper....)

And if you REALLY need 1k more, you have the most unbelievable trade in plan I've ever heard of. I can only imagine "needing" that resolution for major studio productions, and in that case, is $40 Thousand (or the upgrade difference), really a big deal?

Honestly, do you want them to hold off on developing new technology, just so it seems like you got a longer lifespan out of your camera? Isn't that what Sony and Panasonic do? Some stuff can be upgraded within the RED ONE body (and will be!:) ), but some stuff needed a new body and they created the EPIC.

Just my 2 cents.

[Geoff Reisner]

New product development, R&D; whereas strengthening market share, generating revenue are all very important aspects in any business and attributable to such, I don’t believe that’s the primary reason new products are coming to light. It’s said that working for Red is a way of life, and if this is true, that would mean the company embodies the very same ideals and principles as its leaders. Epic, Scarlet and other future products from Red are the result of able-bodied minds working to the utmost extremes to convert ideas into reality. Fueling this fire is the notion that one must always be progressing, advancing to the next forefront ahead of their competition. That driving force results in new innovative products. That driving force is what created the RED ONE in the first place. The moment you slow down, you lose. Not because of your competitors, but because you’ll kill that fire which allows your mind to do what it does best; create and perfect, turning idea to reality. No ground is gained by standing still.

RED as a company is the equivalent of a dragster; they holeshotted off the line and left everybody in stunned silence as they radically changed the name of the game. Did you really think they’d cross that finish line and slow down? They’re barely into second gear right now…

[Tobias Straka]

... We'll try to get this done.


That's excactly what I love about this company (besides the obvious) - great stuff Jim, keep it coming!

[Gunleik Groven]

Would be fun if we all (as in the redusers) could be able to take a deep breath, and think things through a bit before posting paranoia on the boards next time RED releases something new.

I just got my RED, and should (according to some posters) be amongst the most intimidated by the news. Guess what? I'm not. I'm actually very happy that things are moving along and that the company has set it eyes on the future and wants to grow into new markets. To me this means: They plan to hang around for a while, which is only good for me and my RED ONE.

RED ONE is such an amazing tool, and now I have an upgrade path if I should ever need it AND my investment is protrcted in an incredible way. Untill Monday I had always thought that my RED would have a 2nd hand value of about 50% or less 6 months after it's delivery. Not anymore... And this is BECAUSE of EPIC, not despite it.

I also LOVE the fact RED has moved on the compressionrate (with EPIC and Scarlet). I don't know (and won't for a while) know how much this actually improves the image, but it is a very wise marketing move.

And Scarlet...
Let me put it this way...

If anyone else BUT RED had released a similary specced cam, even @ 15.000$ - the world would have NOT stopped shouting HALLELUJAH!

The grumblings are simply either a total lack of history/knowledge or plain bad-intended hysteria. Show me the alternative, and I'll think about the argument, but else...

Guys. This is a 2/3" cam - for a start....
How many of the whiners that complain of "lack of dof" have even produced stuff with 2/3" cams?

My only complaint is that the price for my HVX fell like a stone... :)

And RedRay. Have any of you pondered a bit on the implications?
Have any of you dragged a digi-deck to a screening? Ever?
I'm stoked.

OK

Then that's off my chest. I've said what I mean about democracy and freedom of speach - and I mean it!

But RED is NOT a country... It's a business and owned by Jim. Jim is Jim, not a country, thus no democracy. If you want to have a say over the business, you basically have to buy stocks to vote, but last time I checked, those stocks were not up for sale, and if you bought in - you'd have to be ready to follow Jim in his R&D investments - so I'd suggest deeep pockets. Not "Scarlet deep pockets", more like "Oakley deep pockets".

So.

Got that off my chest.

Have fun shooting your REDs or whatever you're shooting with. Take a deep breath. Analyze. Be constructive.


Cheers!


Gunleik

[Teague Kennedy]

But RED is NOT a country... It's a business and owned by Jim. Jim is Jim, not a country, thus no democracy. If you want to have a say over the business, you basically have to buy stocks to vote, but last time I checked, those stocks were not up for sale, and if you bought in - you'd have to be ready to follow Jim in his R&D investments - so I'd suggest deeep pockets. Not "Scarlet deep pockets", more like "Oakley deep pockets".
Gunleik

I have an immense respect for the fact that I can post a little rant on this forum and the president of the company will respond. That is part of his schtick. It is dangerous on his part, and cool as hell. It is a great marketing tool, as well, to prove that he is accountable. But along with that you will get a thousand people giving their two cents. That's probably not a bad thing. If Jim can directly hear our concerns, it may give him an ulcer, but it will probably serve our interests................

[Hrvoje Simic]

Suggestion #1:

Sticky named "Dissatisfied?" or something like that, with explanations and bubble bursting stuff. Comparisons with other company's offers, disclaimers, & selected info & links to best sample material and RED accomplishments.

Explain the company policy and mentality, maybe in sticky like: "Meet Red Digital Cinema Company".


This bitching is going on since DVXuser, and it's always the same.

The more you give the more will people want, the more you disclose the more they want to know, the cheaper it is the cheaper they want...

Than you guys at Red get mad, then Red supporters feeling protective always have to re-write why is this and that better than this and that and what has been achieved....for the Nth time....

...and the number of members is rising...and after Scarlet comes...

so..."Dissatisfied?" - check this and this and this...

something like :

New User

"I want a 1000mm lens with a 35mm sensor with 300fps on a pocket camera and 200MB/s Redcode Raw recording for less than $3000"

Red Guy

LINK

...DONE. No further explanations needed.


Suggestion #2:

Thicker skin.
This is the price of all the good things happening at Reduser. All has to balance itself.

Just be careful to avoid it beeing too thick...that's a tough challenge.
But you like those.

[Daniel García]

Thank you very much for your answer, Mr Jannard.
I didn't expect such a quick, precise and positive response altogether.
Great news.

This company is really amazing.

[Brent J. Craig]

Great thought... we heard that several times today at the booth. We'll try to get this done.

Might as well add frame accurate sync to all three cameras while you're at it. 3D is coming and Scarlet would be a great way to shoot it!

[Hologram]

Soccer mom 3d !!!

Anyway i can't wait for RED RAY, man this thing will shake things !

i have a dream...a dream full of expensive hdcam sr deck in the bin, where red ray drivers and recorders will be at every broadcast network/theatre of the planet as the new master format for anything to hd to 4k.

sorry for the crappy english