LATITUDE please

[killfilm]

no intention with the caps, but of utmost importance, latitude. Are we gonna have 3k res at video latitude or more like film. How many stops do you predict?

[Peter Majtan]

No need to predict anything - Scarlet is going to have (cropped?) Mysterium X sensor, so expect latitude equal, or exceeding that of RED ONE...

[killfilm]

hey peter, can i hold you up to that.

nice to meet btw

[Peter Majtan]

hey peter, can i hold you up to that.

nice to meet btw

Just check the specs at www.red.com (mind You they are "subject to change - count on it")... Are You at NAB?

[Peter Majtan]

Jim have even said that all RED ONE's can be updated to the new sensor once it is out. I don't see them designing dedicated sensor technology (apart from the size) for Scarlet...

[redman]

Are you the same killfilm from dvxuser? If so how did your project of turning an hvx into a 2k camera go? adding more lattitude I presume. Something like the reel stream mod.

[Luis Caffesse]

No need to predict anything - Scarlet is going to have (cropped?) Mysterium X sensor, so expect latitude equal, or exceeding that of RED ONE...

I wouldn't jump to conclusions.
Sensor size (and pixel size) is one of the things that can affect lattitude.
A 2/3" chip at 3K res is pretty packed. Not sure of the size of the pixels on a Red One, but I think it would be a bit premature to assume the lattitude on Scarlet would be equal to it. Not saying it's impossible, just that I wouldn't say it's a given by any means.

[Peter Majtan]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions.
Sensor size (and pixel size) is one of the things that can affect lattitude.
A 2/3" chip at 3K res is pretty packed. Not sure of the size of the pixels on a Red One, but I think it would be a bit premature to assume the lattitude on Scarlet would be equal to it. Not saying it's impossible, just that I wouldn't say it's a given by any means.

If they (RED) were going to use different sensor in Scarlet, they would have call it "Mysterium Y" (or "S" :devil: ), not "Mysterium X" (i.e. same sensor as EPIC and RED ONE later on...).

I would even go as far as saying that there is the exact same sensor in Scarlet as there will be in EPIC and RED ONE, but due to bandwidth (and other) reason only 2/3" is exposed, or "activated". At worse they would just "crop" the big brother to 2/3" size. Developing a completely new sensor only for Scarlet just does not make any sense. Jim have even said that they will upgrade RED ONE's to it when is available...

But that is just me... :innocent:

[combatentropy]

If Scarlet used the same sensor as Epic, and cropped it, then it would be only 2K.

2/3": 9.6 x 5.4 mm
Super 35mm: 24.4 x 13.7mm

Scarlet is 40% as wide as Epic.
40% of 5K is 2K.

[Luis Caffesse]

They've already said Scarlet will have a 2/3" sensor, so clearly it's not the same sensor that is in the RED One.
Larger sensors are also more expensive to manufacture and yields are lower - so it would make no sense to use the same sensor and 'crop it.' At least, I can't imagine they could offer a cam like this for $3K using the same sensor.

[Sergio Perez]

I second that request for lattitude/dinamic range. Give me HPX500 like performance, and I'm happy. Give me more, and I'm even happier!

[Lawrence Bansbach]

They've already said Scarlet will have a 2/3" sensor, so clearly it's not the same sensor that is in the RED One.
Larger sensors are also more expensive to manufacture and yields are lower - so it would make no sense to use the same sensor and 'crop it.' At least, I can't imagine they could offer a cam like this for $3K using the same sensor.As you and combatentropy noted above, Scarlet's pixels will be packed pretty densely, probably more than One's or Epic's, so it's not likely that it will have the same sensitivity or latitude. But given that Mysterium X is an improved, second-generation sensor (and not, as I understand it, a firmware upgrade), Scarlet's 2/3-inch X might have a latitude close to that of the original Mysterium. Given that the zoom is more than a stop slower than found on 1/3-inch cameras, greater-than-video latitude is to be expected from Jim and company. Because it's more of a run-and-gun camera than One or Epic, he wouldn't hobble it by requiring you to use a lot more light. These are exciting times -- "early 2009" more so than now.

[Peter Majtan]

They've already said Scarlet will have a 2/3" sensor, so clearly it's not the same sensor that is in the RED One.
Larger sensors are also more expensive to manufacture and yields are lower - so it would make no sense to use the same sensor and 'crop it.' At least, I can't imagine they could offer a cam like this for $3K using the same sensor.

By "cropping" I did not mean that they have taken scissors and cut the big sensor. I was using lemon terms to describe that if they are naming the sensor same as the EPIC's/RED ONE's (after upgrade) - clearly is the same engineering at work. The design of the photodetector, pixel patterns, reset circuity and all other bits and pieces are going to be the same. Also note that RED always uses larger sensor then the active area specified for the product. That is what allows You to see little outside of the composed frame.

Think of it as BMW 1 series coupe vs. 3-door. The insides of the car are same. The engine is same, the interior, etc... The coupe just has a large cargo capacity. But they are both BMW-1's. If You change the insides, engine and interior completely You ended up with BMW-3's or 5's, etc... But You would never say that it is a variant of the same car. 5-series is not 1-series...

So if You call it Mysterium X - You are clearly making point it is going to be different from the current Mysterium. At the same time if You are using the name for both Scarlet and EPIC - well the opposite is the truth - You are making a point that the technology is going to be the same...

As I have said in another thread - I personally know that SONY is using the "rejects" of the 4K SXRD projector imaging device for the "smaller" 2K version of the projector for other special purposes.

You have a good point that it is most likely dedicated sensor, but the "guts" are going to be the same. With the quantities Scarlet is going to be selling there would have to be way too many rejects...

To close this issue (from my perspective) and to clarify what I meant (in relation to the original question of this thread):

If RED is referring to the sensor with the same name as for the EPIC - You can be sure it will perform the same, otherwise they will call it something else. And since RED has clarified the sensor will be improved in many ways you can expect the SAME or BETTER latitude as the current Mysterium inside RED ONE...