RED Log and Transfer Plugin (BETA)

[Sanjin Jukic]

RED Log and Transfer Plugin (BETA)

"Load this plugin into your Intel based Mac that has Final Cut Pro 6.0.3
and above installed and you will have the Log and Transfer functionality to import REDCODE RAW
clips (either 4k 2:1 aspect ration or 2k 2:1 or 16:9 aspect ratio currently) and transcode them
(directly inside the Log and Transfer module) to Apple’s ProRes codec for use within Final Cut Studio."

Log and Transfer Plugin is working fine.

Log and Transfer R3D to FCP, Sent to Color, Sent to FCP, Cut, Output your movie.

Have a look at this short clip (10.5MB) done in a way described above.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Belvedere_01.jpg

LINK>>> (http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Belvedere_01.mov)

[Tar]

Can you transcode to other codecs? UC 10-bit?

[Ben Holmes]

Can you transcode to other codecs? UC 10-bit?

No - just prores HQ. However, as this utilises the half-size proxies, it's probably overkill to want uncompressed files, IMHO, and the prores files are perfect for working in FCP anyway.

The best thing (and the only real option in the settings) is the ability to apply a look generated in REDALERT to the footage when you import it, exactly as if you had used REDALERT to generate new proxies with the look applied. These looks are automatically listed in the log and transfer settings when saved in REDALERT.

Ben

[Russ Campbell]

A quick question. Does this work only with transfer of footage from Red drives or CF cards? I am unable to use this with sample R3D files - complains about an invalid directory structure. I presume it needs more info than just the R3D's and quicktimes.

[Reinhart]

A quick question. Does this work only with transfer of footage from Red drives or CF cards? I am unable to use this with sample R3D files - complains about an invalid directory structure. I presume it needs more info than just the R3D's and quicktimes.

Folder structure is as follows:

<any folder name>
A001_C008_080309.RDC (or any folder name.RDC)
A001_C008_080309_001.R3D
A001_C008_080309_002.R3D
etc...


That should be all you need. This can exist on a RED_ONE volume or anywhere on disc.

[Sanjin Jukic]

This Belvedere test clip was shot with Cooke 25-250mm Cine Varotal Mk I (a vintage zoom lens from 80's).

[Ed Watkins]

Quick question..
Does the audio stay intact using this method or is it lost like in REDCINE, RED ALERT?

Thanks.

[Ben Holmes]

The release notes state that it takes audio from tracks 1 and 2 only - not 3/4, a known issue they hope to resolve soon. I cannot confirm this as the 4K footage I tested was mute, but the system did ingest the clips with 4 tracks of mute audio (assumed to be tracks 1&2 twice), so it looks promising.

[Guy]

Is there an option to crop the sides off of 2:1 to get 16:9?

[Ben Holmes]

Is there an option to crop the sides off of 2:1 to get 16:9?

No. My Blackmagic multibridge pro happily plays back a 2K 2:1 timeline on 1080 settings, so I still get solid video monitoring and output.

There are NO options available on import, except selecting a 'look'. I expect that will change in time - it's a beta after all.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

does somebody know about the quality of these prores files?are they proxy quality or full debayer quality, i guess proxy....and this plug in is a way to get sound out of r3d files

[Ben Holmes]

This method accesses the QT proxies - so you get proxy 'quality', but with easy to digest ProRes wrappers. It includes sound, and gives an easy means of logging and ingesting into FCP for whatever purpose you require, whether Crimson type finishing, or quick and easy 2k editing. Advantages here (over the compressor batch option) are using looks on import and quick and easy trimming of R3D files prior to import.

[Reinhart]

No - just prores HQ. However, as this utilises the half-size proxies, it's probably overkill to want uncompressed files, IMHO, and the prores files are perfect for working in FCP anyway.

The best thing (and the only real option in the settings) is the ability to apply a look generated in REDALERT to the footage when you import it, exactly as if you had used REDALERT to generate new proxies with the look applied. These looks are automatically listed in the log and transfer settings when saved in REDALERT.

Ben


L&T window does not use the camera generated qt proxies at all. Only the R3D files are processed.

[Ben Holmes]

L&T window does not use the camera generated qt proxies at all. Only the R3D files are processed.

FCP generates half-sized files that appear identical to ProRes files generated from camera proxies. It has to make it's own 'proxy' files to do this, in the same way as REDALERT generates proxies with a colour profile attached. Isn't this the same process, but without the intermediate file creation? There doesn't seem to be any quality difference from files derived from 2K camera proxies. Anyone from RED care to comment?

[Sanjin Jukic]

FCP generates half-sized files that appear identical to ProRes files generated from camera proxies. It has to make it's own 'proxy' files to do this, in the same way as REDALERT generates proxies with a colour profile attached. Isn't this the same process, but without the intermediate file creation? There doesn't seem to be any quality difference from files derived from 2K camera proxies. Anyone from RED care to comment?

It means if you have 4K file then you get 2K file PR generated.

For 3K you get 1.5K size.

For 2K you get 1K size.

Or 2:1 ratio.

[ThomtheEditor]

sorry to get in the middle of an argument, but how do i get presets that i've made in RedAlert to be read in the dropdown window. All i see are native, tungsten, daylight, warm, and sepia. Is there a default folder somewhere that i should be saving my presets to?

[Sanjin Jukic]

The Log and Transfer workflow should be very soon explained here in all detail by the expert(s).

[ThomtheEditor]

The Log and Transfer workflow should be very soon explained here in all detail by the expert(s).

The workflow is pretty straight-forward, it's the same as the P2 workflow we all know and love, just a little slower right now. However people have been saying that they can apply saved looks from RedAlert directly thru the options dropdown, all i was asking is where should they be saved in order for the dropdown to recognize them?

[Paul Harrill]

Any sense of whether L&T is going to eventually let us work with 1:1 ProRes? For those of us shooting 2K we're working with less than HD footage.

I started a thread with this Q, but didn't see this thread already going on. Sorry for the double-posting.

[Russ Campbell]

sorry to get in the middle of an argument, but how do i get presets that i've made in RedAlert to be read in the dropdown window. All i see are native, tungsten, daylight, warm, and sepia. Is there a default folder somewhere that i should be saving my presets to?

You need to save your profile to the Presets folder located in Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/REDAlert for it to show up under L&T

[Rob3rt Duart3]

hi! I just wanna know if the log and transfer window from FCP will transfers 2k or proxies files?

[Peace Villow]

This proxies/wrapper/reference files makes me nutzz....

I understand the quicktime files that generated in the camera is quicktime reference files, not a proxies.
That's only reference file, that's why it's only ~4KB.
If you delete the R3D file, the reference file (RED called it a wrapper) will not shows your shot.

AFAIK, a proxies is a lower resolution of a file with the same format.
So, if I have 4K DPX files and I wanna make a 1K proxies to work with, then I just make a proxies (for example in Lustre) by pressing the proxies button.
Then Lustre will create a new DPX files from the 4K resolution and downres that files to 1K DPX files.
So, I will work with that 1K res.
DPX to DPX format.

So, the question is:
Is the Log & Transfer Plugin creates a reference file from the R3D file or create a Quicktime movie with ProRes codec by debayering from the R3D file???

[ThomtheEditor]

You need to save your profile to the Presets folder located in Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/REDAlert for it to show up under L&T

thanks so much! i didn't see that before because our bays get used by many people and redalert was installed originally under a non-admin user thus that folder didn't exist, simple change big results! Thanks again!
~T

[Rob3rt Duart3]

thx PVillow. 1 last questions, so now that i have my reference files inside final cut pro, what will be my next step. I need them to be 2k for a project that i need to edit. I heard about a new software call crimson, I don't know if is good and what does it do. did you know about it?

[Rob3rt Duart3]

:blink: :unsure:
thx PVillow. 1 last questions, so now that i have my reference files inside final cut pro, what will be my next step. I need them to be 2k for a project that i need to edit. I heard about a new software call crimson, I don't know if is good and what does it do. did you know about it?

[Peace Villow]

I suggest you download the video tutorials here:
http://www.crimsonworkflow.com/videos/CrimsonDemo-H.264.mov

[ThomtheEditor]

thx PVillow. 1 last questions, so now that i have my reference files inside final cut pro, what will be my next step. I need them to be 2k for a project that i need to edit. I heard about a new software call crimson, I don't know if is good and what does it do. did you know about it?

crimson is a round trip application, you edit with proxies or these L&T files you can now generate inside final cut, use crimson to make the connections from the proxies to the original R3d files so that you can take that information either into color or RedCine or scratch or whatever you want to finish your project with and then use crimson to bring the finished files back into your fcp timeline. Once they get color to read the R3d files for itself crimson won't be as helpful as it is right now in the fcp workflow but will still be invaluable if you're on an avid or any other platform that isn't as apple friendly as the fcp workflow is.

It saves you from having to sit thru a 10:1 transfer rate for all of your footage going thru RedCine, just grade what you're actually going to use.

[Peace Villow]

Thom, can you please explain to me what is the file type of this proxies that you mention.
What is your definition about proxies?

AFAIK, Proxies is not a QT reference file.
A proxies is a lower resolution of your file, but have the same format.

CMIIW

[ThomtheEditor]

I just meant however you want to edit, be with the _H or _M proxies off the camera, L&T 2k (which i'm very excited about), or compressor droplets, these can all still retain at the very least a name connection to the original R3d files which crimson utilizes in order to round trip your project.

I guess i wasn't using it right there, i was just using it as a placeholder for however you decide to edit your footage.

BTW, what's a villow?

[Peace Villow]

So, the L&T plugin creates a quicktime reference file not a quicktime movie right?

Villow is my last name, my dad gave it.
Have no meaning, but it sounds cool if you spell it in Indonesian language :bleh:

[ThomtheEditor]

So, the L&T plugin creates a quicktime reference file not a quicktime movie right?


No no, that's the nice thing is that L&T creates it's own new self contained file, just like importing from P2 workflow, but you can choose to have the name of the file stay the same as the R3d file from which it was created so you can still reference back to further down the timeline, but it is it's own movie so if you just want to grade on top of that and finish everything in 2k you can do a nice "send to color" straight from fcp and completely ignore the raw files from there on out.

From what i've tested L&T generates a fully usable ProResHQ qt movie which lays off perfectly to HDCam if you're finishing in 1080p or the 2k that you bring it in at, only problem is that you're still stuck with the org 2:1 ratio unless you pan & scan it to a full 16:9.

[Paul Harrill]

pvillow - Wrong. L&T produces a stand-alone QT movie in the ProRes422 codec. In this sense, is not a "reference" file. By working with the ProRes file that L&T creates you could conceivably never have to work with the R3D file again. You could even delete it.

BUT that would be a very bad idea because (for now, at least)the ProRes422 files that L&T creates have 1/2 the resolution of the R3D. So eventually you'll want to go back to those R3Ds, probably using Crimson. At least until Apple Color starts letting you use R3D files.

[Paul Harrill]

Thom and I posted at the same time, so we're saying the same thing. Except Thom assumes you're working with 4K footage.

It's important to remember that, whatever the size of the original footage, the ProRes is going to have HALF that resolution. So if you're shooting in 2K because you have Super-16 lenses, or because you need the additional accelerated frame rates that 2K provides... then you're going to be editing footage that has LESS than HD resolution.

That's why L&T, though it works, is for me not entirely satisfactory as-is. It needs to be able to take 2K footage and transcode it at 1:1 resolution.

[ThomtheEditor]

That's why L&T, though it works, is for me not entirely satisfactory as-is. It needs to be able to take 2K footage and transcode it at 1:1 resolution.

Potential workaround for that (if you're shooting off frame rate for a few shots as we did with this 3 red music video we did) is to L&T 90% of your footage then the shots that were shot in 2k digitize in redcine so everything is uniform frame size/rate/codec in fcp, you can still disregard the R3d raw footage from that point on out.

But yeah you're 100% right if your whole shoot was shot 2k then L&T really isn't that viable an option (for now, remember this is still the beta build and i'm sure that will be their one of the first if not the first correction upon recoding)

[Paul Harrill]

Interesting, Thom. What settings are you using in RedCine to do that conversion from 2K to ProRes? I tried it just now, but had some image "squeeze" going on.

[ThomtheEditor]

They wanted the video set to 16:9 rather than the native 2:1 so our setup was:

project
format settings
RED ONE 2K: 2048x1152
square
23.976

shot
shot framing
Fit Height

yes you are scaling up to 112.5% but on our monitors we can't tell a difference because deliverables are HDCam 1080psf24 and DVCam PAL (foreign artist/european & russian distribution)

output
output settings
format: Red One 2K
w: 2048 h:1152
format: QT apple prores 422 hq
normal/standard

Looks pretty damn good if i do say so myself

[Jeremy Newmark]

Interesting, Thom. What settings are you using in RedCine to do that conversion from 2K to ProRes? I tried it just now, but had some image "squeeze" going on.

In Redcine, import your 2k 2:1 files, go to project view, set your format to custom and change it to 2048 x 1024. Then in the output view choose quicktime and set it to ProRes 422 HQ and change the format to custom and set it to 2048 x 1024. Export and you should be good to go.

[Jeremy Newmark]

Posted at the same time, this would be for a 2:1 workflow, if 16x9 use Thom's res settings.

[Peace Villow]

No no, that's the nice thing is that L&T creates it's own new self contained file, just like importing from P2 workflow, but you can choose to have the name of the file stay the same as the R3d file from which it was created so you can still reference back to further down the timeline, but it is it's own movie so if you just want to grade on top of that and finish everything in 2k you can do a nice "send to color" straight from fcp and completely ignore the raw files from there on out.

From what i've tested L&T generates a fully usable ProResHQ qt movie which lays off perfectly to HDCam if you're finishing in 1080p or the 2k that you bring it in at, only problem is that you're still stuck with the org 2:1 ratio unless you pan & scan it to a full 16:9.


pvillow - Wrong. L&T produces a stand-alone QT movie in the ProRes422 codec. In this sense, is not a "reference" file. By working with the ProRes file that L&T creates you could conceivably never have to work with the R3D file again. You could even delete it.

BUT that would be a very bad idea because (for now, at least)the ProRes422 files that L&T creates have 1/2 the resolution of the R3D. So eventually you'll want to go back to those R3Ds, probably using Crimson. At least until Apple Color starts letting you use R3D files.

OK, thanks guys.

[Aaronzo]

Interesting that Red support page suggests that we stay on FCP 6.0.2, yet the plugin only works after upgrading to FCP 6.0.3

[ThomtheEditor]

I'm usually one of the first ones to try an upgrade just so i can stay on top of everything and 90% of the time everythings ok, 6.0.3 is running on every one of our machines here and we have yet to have any porblems, red or otherwise.

I need a t-shirt that says "i do my own Beta testing"

[Reinhart]

sorry to get in the middle of an argument, but how do i get presets that i've made in RedAlert to be read in the dropdown window. All i see are native, tungsten, daylight, warm, and sepia. Is there a default folder somewhere that i should be saving my presets to?

Have REDAlert create the RLX file in
/Library/Application Support/REDAlert/Presets

[Reinhart]

This proxies/wrapper/reference files makes me nutzz....

So, the question is:
Is the Log & Transfer Plugin creates a reference file from the R3D file or create a Quicktime movie with ProRes codec by debayering from the R3D file???


There is no debayer in the L&T plugin. All the L&T plugin really does is to provide a user interface for transcoding R3D files. It never actually touches the pixel data.

[Reinhart]

Any sense of whether L&T is going to eventually let us work with 1:1 ProRes? For those of us shooting 2K we're working with less than HD footage.



The 1:1 issue is one related to the REDCODE QT codec, not the L&T plugin.
Full resolution (1:1) in the codec is coming soon. When the codec does it,
it'll be added to the L&T plugin, probably as a tool menu option.

[Reinhart]

That's why L&T, though it works, is for me not entirely satisfactory as-is. It needs to be able to take 2K footage and transcode it at 1:1 resolution.

Please see my other post regarding this...resolution is not an L&T issue,
it's a codec issue. When the codec does 1:1, L&T will do 1:1.