Doc lens recommendations

[JW Lee]

I was thinking about lens selection for doing documentary shoots where you go from situation to situation making swapping out primes a less than ideal task. That led me to thinking about a Nikon, Cooke or Ziess zoom lens that could give flexibility while at the same time retaining a "filmic" quality. So if you had something in the 30-150 range, I'd think it would make for a decent solution.

Anyone have thoughts on this? For you doc shooters out there, what lenses have you used that you were happy with?

[Don Woods]

well it would all depend on what kind of doc you a are shooting. The docs I have worked on we really never used that long of glass. We stayed mostly wide. So I would say the RED Zoom the 18-85mm range would be a good place to start. Or the Nikon 17-35 would even be a good choice. Like I said it is all what and how you are shooting. Hand held and fast action I would stick to a wider lens and shot 4K and reframe as needed.

[Ken Corben]

Ditto that - Nikon 17-35 may be hard to beat for HDTV final output of a hand held doc. My preference would be the Red Zoom based on preliminary specifications.

[JW Lee]

A lot of what I do involves interviews both on sticks and hand held. Point taken on looking at a wider lens. Let's say you were taking outdoor action shots along with interviews, does that change your opinion?

[Ken Corben]

I think interviews on sticks the Nikon is a no brainer. As we all know, handheld has a "feel" to it and I don't know what to expect until I build and test various RED configurations?

[Don Woods]

No Wider is the way to go for the had held feel. I tend you need to pan less and this dose not make your audiance sic. I found when I was doing outdoor hand held and following action around A wide to medium was nice to have. I sayed wide most the time but I could also zoom in if I wanted to get a little more intense shot. Never need all that much though. I think the RED Zoom or Personally right now I would lean hard to the NIKON for the price and buy more media and batterys

[Damien Molineaux]

Another option for shooting doc is to shoot 2k, my personal choice. I've found a good deal on a Zeiss Optex S16 12-120mm T2.4 lens. The going price for this lens seems to be $6000.- It's a widely used lens in the S16 world. We've yet to see how it performs on a Red of course.

I would agree 30-150mm is long, remember in 4k 30mm is about a normal lens. You definitly want to be able to have the possibilty of a wider angle of view than normal. Also in handheld/shoulder a longer lens increases any movement while a wide lens makes it less noticeable. The 18-85mm range of the Red zoom is pretty much ideal. Cooke has an older zoom with a 20-100mm range which was later replaced by a 18-100mm. Great lenses of course, but quite bulky/heavy, also one reason why I'm going the 2k/S16 way. Another reason is the increased recording capacity. Estimates stand at around 3 hours in 4k on a Red Drive verses 9 hours in 2k.

Cheers,
Damien

[Mike the beginner]

Here is some useful info. I would hold off till NAB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike the beginner

Mark have you made any decison on what lens you are going to settle for with the underwater unit. I can only be advised by those who have experience. It just seems logical to use the red zoom lens provided most users felt it was wide enough at 18mm. That the zoom function could be controlled and that there is a facility for the stop start.

Kinda disappointed to hear a few guys are already going for prime lenses at 12mm or so. These are very expensive and would put the whole underwater part of my plans out of bounds.

I will be using the red in Scottish waters in the marine estuaries or in freshwater rivers. From what i am gathering our marine environment does not have good visability. I just wonder then if i would be restricted by this to such an extent that a wide prime would be essential?

If you have any input or anyone else please feel free to suggest. I will in due course speak to someone over here who has experience, first i need to know what underwater unit provides the best price to build ratio for depths no more than about twenty feet.

Mike the beginner qUOTE

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qote reply by Mike AquaVideo QUOTE
18-85 underwater

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Mike:

since 18 is equivalent to a 28mm on a regular still SLR 35 it is not very wide at all and you will be particularly disappointed in poor visibility which needs superwide even more than clear tropical. Also superwide is even more important for underwater motion picture than stills.

I think you are going to find that the Birger Engineering Canon lens adapter using the 10-22 Canon EF-S lens is going to be the cheapest (and maybe one of the best) options.

If you are looking at the red zoom, you are probably better off looking at this Canon mount option. Erik from Birger has suggested that it will be about $1500 and it isn't clear if that will include the mount to the red but if not that probably would add $500 to $1000 making it about $2500 for the mount which will let you use any of the Canon EF lenses - with the ability to do iris and focus remotely as well as regular manual - something even the RED zoom doesn't allow. I suspect the Canon L-type lenses are nearly as good, and possibly better optically than the RED zoom will be, and on the telephoto side you get the image stabilization too - something not offered on the RED lens or even the Zeiss, Cooke, etc. cine lenses. If you are going to shoot true hollywood major motion picture style production, you will want and be able to afford those lenses (at least to rent). But if you are shooting low budget indie style, or documentary type stuff I think you will find the ability to have stabilized long zooms a huge advantage.

To me the RED 18-85 is the mid-level indie style do anything lens.

The EF-S 10-22 and the EF 28-300 would provide phenomenal coverage from superwide to supertelephoto for about $4500 including the mount.

EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM $700
EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM ~$700
EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM ~ 1300

If you are really on a budget, there are even cheaper canon zooms that are quite good, but require a little more light.quote

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[donatello b]

i have never shot 35m for a doc ... so based on shooting S16 mode ( 2k)
11-110 T2.2 zeiss ... 11.5-138 Ang or canon... 8-64 canon ( a little short for exterior shots) ....

[Sanjin Jukic]

I have got Arriflex/Carl Zeiss Vario Sonnar T*(3) 10-100mm f/2,8 used for Euro 450. It is S16 allround zoom for run&gun documentary 2K shooting using REDCODE. PL adapter ($395) is also ordered. Total about $ 1000. Not bad at all.

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/zeiss-10-100-s16.jpg

[Alex D. da Silva]

Try these:

Angenieux 11.5x5.3 HD Cine Style HD

[zak forrest]

I have got Arriflex/Carl Zeiss Vario Sonnar T*(3) 10-100mm f/2,8 used for Euro 450. It is S16 allround zoom for run&gun documentary 2K shooting using REDCODE. PL adapter ($395) is also ordered. Total about $ 1000. Not bad at all.

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/zeiss-10-100-s16.jpg



could you show us another view of that lens? what is the length of the lens.

i am looking to get a zoom similar to the red zoom but more compact, even if that means i have to shoot in 2k. could this lens fit the bill? any other suggestions out there?

[Hans von Sonntag]

Another option for shooting doc is to shoot 2k, my personal choice. I've found a good deal on a Zeiss Optex S16 12-120mm T2.4 lens. The going price for this lens seems to be $6000.- It's a widely used lens in the S16 world. We've yet to see how it performs on a Red of course.
Cheers,
Damien

Hi Zak,

Shooting 2K with a windowed sensor has also the advantage of more depth of field which can make things much easier in an run and gun kind of environment. I never shot a doc film with 35mm but with S16 (got my own S16 Arri) and found the 12 - 120 a bit too long on the short end. 12mm is not something I would consider wide angle. I would prefer the Canon 8-64. Shot a lot with this lens and found it very versatile, very sharp and hardly beathing. But then it's all personal taste wether you prefer a wider or a longer zoom lens. Unfortunately there is no S16 cine lens wich is both: wide and long. If you go the B4 adaptor rout you will get both but you will loose quality.

There is a thread in the EFP/ENG section on this topic.

I am not sure wether the 10-100 Zeiss fits S16. Originally it was made for N16 and had an Arri mount as all the 70ies an 80ies 16mm Arris had. With the Arri SR3 and the advent of S16 some were later converted to 12-120 (still a 1-10 ratio) and got a PL mount. On S16 it might vignette on the short end. Ask Stephen. He knows for sure. Physically it is as long as any standard EFP/ENG TV-zoom without an extender.

Hope that helps.

Hans

[donatello b]

little more info on Zeiss 10-100 T2 ... there's a MK 1 & Mk2 ... i believe Mk1 has 80 mm front ???? and it turns ( front lens barrel) when you focus so attached lens hood turns also it vignettes a little at wide angle when stopped down ... Mk 2 i believe they went to 87mm front that does not turn ( lens barrel) when you focus and wide angle is OK when stopped down ... both have heavy breathing ( like a runner at end of 100mm race) ...

zeiss did a S16 version 11-110 T2.2 zoom ... Optex did a S16 conversion and it is 12-120 T 2.4 .... the zeiss S16 version sells for approx 1500-2000 more then optex.

[Alex D. da Silva]

All of my work nowadays is for docs. One of the most important features that I look for in cameras and lenses, after quality and versatility, are portability and weight. 75% of my camera work is handheld.

The Angenieux really surprised me in all categories; it’s is also a brand new lens.

[Sanjin Jukic]

could you show us another view of that lens? what is the length of the lens.

i am looking to get a zoom similar to the red zoom but more compact, even if that means i have to shoot in 2k. could this lens fit the bill? any other suggestions out there?

The lens have to be tested on the RED and then I'll tell you about performance. It is used old lens.

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/arriflex-10-100.jpg

Arriflex/Carl Zeiss Vario Sonnar T* 10-100mm f/2,8 older version but still super16.

160mm long, 80mm wide, weight about 1 kg.

[Alex D. da Silva]

More info on the Angenieux lens:

Angenieux 11.5x5.3 HD Cine Style HD

Zoom ratio : 11.5x
Focal length : 5.3 - 61 mm
Aperture : f/1.7 - T1.9
MOD : 0.6 m - 2’

- A power of resolution which is much higher than most HD lenses.
- An extremely fast aperture speed of T1.9.
- Impressive contrast and color reproduction.
- Rugged construction with a high a precision film mechanical design.
- Extremely economical.

Weight (approx.) : 1.8 kg - 3.9 Ibs
Length : 243 mm

http://www.angenieux.com/pages/index_frame.php?page=301.php

It might be a bit too long but the weight, quality of image and built is excellent.

[Damien Molineaux]

The lens have to be tested on the RED and then I'll tell you about performance. It is used old lens.

Arriflex/Carl Zeiss Vario Sonnar T* 10-100mm f/2,8 older version but still super16.

160mm long, 80mm wide, weight about 1 kg.

Are you sure, about the S16 ? I may be wrong but I've been looking around at lenses and I haven't found any reference to a 10-100 S16 lens; unless converted (with an Optex converter, maybe others too) to 12-120.

Cheers,
Damien

[steevo435]

zeiss did a S16 version 11-110 T2.2 zoom ... Optex did a S16 conversion and it is 12-120 T 2.4 .... the zeiss S16 version sells for approx 1500-2000 more then optex.

Yeah, the 12-120 Optex conversion is to convert an older 10-100 like this one. I've never seen a 10-100 that covers S16 all the way through the zoom range.
FYI- Optex is no longer with us :wacko: , but there are still companies out there that do the conversion. The kit costs around $2k. Spent the extra cash and get the 11-110...much better optically, purpose built for S16.