Dalsa Origin II 2k Output?

[Andrew McCarrick]

I'm wondering if anybody knows if the Dalsa Origin II has an on-board 2k output. I know that both the Evolution and the Dalsa on-board recorder do, but I need the actual Origin II body to have that output.... anybody know?

[David Mullen ASC]

No, it does not generate a live conversion to 2K RGB in-camera as far as I know, looking at the specs.

It sends out a 4K Bayer RAW uncompressed signal (4096 x 2048) at 402 Mbps to a data recorder like a Codex or S-Two. From the data recorder, you can get an HD-SDI 1920 x 1080 output for HD monitoring -- I don't know if you can get live dual-link HD-SDI though for recording in HD. And I don't know the quality of the on-set de-bayering to HD anyway since the camera was really designed (like the RED ONE) to be de-bayered in post.

[Andrew McCarrick]

No, it does not generate a live conversion to 2K RGB in-camera as far as I know, looking at the specs.

It sends out a 4K Bayer RAW uncompressed signal (4096 x 2048) at 402 Mbps to a data recorder like a Codex or S-Two. From the data recorder, you can get an HD-SDI 1920 x 1080 output for HD monitoring -- I don't know if you can get live dual-link HD-SDI though for recording in HD. And I don't know the quality of the on-set de-bayering to HD anyway since the camera was really designed (like the RED ONE) to be de-bayered in post.

Okay, then I may have to go with either a custom box from Codex to get the 4k to 2k or just shoot entirely with the Evolution. Thanks.

[David Mullen ASC]

If the Codex is recording 4K RAW anyway, why do you need a live 2K RGB downconversion? Why not do it in post? And the Evolution doesn't exist yet.

[Andrew McCarrick]

If the Codex is recording 4K RAW anyway, why do you need a live 2K RGB downconversion? Why not do it in post? And the Evolution doesn't exist yet.

Because I want to record live to a 2k D5HD back-up and not have to worry about it in post. I want to generate multiple back-ups in different formats live so we don't have to do it later. We're going into the Codex Digital Recorder and then out to the D5HD (with 2k processor) deck, into a second Codex Digital Recorder for automatic 2k Digital Back-up, and straight into an Avid DS Nitris for Uncompressed 4:4:4 HD and Media Composer Nitris DX for DNxHD offline.

[David Mullen ASC]

How is the quality of the on-set live de-Bayering? Does Dalsa recommend using it for final post-production finishing work? Does HD-D5 record 2K RGB data files as well as 1080P 4:4:4? So you're shooting with the Dalsa for an HD project? Or is the HD version just in case you don't get to finish it in 4K/2K?

[Andrew McCarrick]

How is the quality of the on-set live de-Bayering? Does Dalsa recommend using it for final post-production finishing work? Does HD-D5 record 2K RGB data files as well as 1080P 4:4:4? So you're shooting with the Dalsa for an HD project? Or is the HD version just in case you don't get to finish it in 4K/2K?

I actually don't know the quality of on-set de-bayering... I'm hoping it's good enough. I believe the D5HD deck does indeed record 2k and 1080 4:4:4 with the additional 2k processor (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=116554&catGroupId=14594&surfModel=AJ-HDP2000). The HD material will be for the offline and then for the HD master for Blu-Ray and HDTV, which will probably differ slightly from the main 4k edit. The 2k material is back-up just incase we lose the 4k material.... Otherwise I'd back up the 4k to tape, but I can't think of any tape format that does 4k (other than datatape (LTO), but that's format agnostic and we're doing that also.).

[Chris Parker]

doesn't the codex allow you to just record on it once, and then distribute all the necessary files to the AVID, etc. easily later?

[Andrew McCarrick]

doesn't the codex allow you to just record on it once, and then distribute all the necessary files to the AVID, etc. easily later?

Yes, But I'd rather not have to sit there converting files for hours on end... while it could be done in real time. Not to mention we're shooting with 6 cameras.... so 4-5 hours worth of footage per a camera (from an 8 hour shoot day)..... converting all that over to 2k (back-up) and HD for offline would take more than 8-10 hours. And our editors would be me, our lead actress, and our 1st and 2nd ADs. We do need to sleep.

[Ironny]

doesn't the codex allow you to just record on it once, and then distribute all the necessary files to the AVID, etc. easily later?

Yes that is correct. We can generate DNxHD around x3 faster than real-time. All the associated logging and clip data also goes directly into the Avid bin with the media.

[Ironny]

Yes, But I'd rather not have to sit there converting files for hours on end... while it could be done in real time. Not to mention we're shooting with 6 cameras.... so 4-5 hours worth of footage per a camera (from an 8 hour shoot day)

Hi Andrew

I definitely think it would be worthwhile having a further discussion regarding your workflow. I am sure we can come-up with a workflow that maintains the quality as well as lets you get some sleep :-)

[Ironny]

I don't know the quality of the on-set de-bayering to HD anyway since the camera was really designed (like the RED ONE) to be de-bayered in post.

The real-time debayer that Codex does is fine for critical analysis and editorial.

Just as with RED we do suggest using the multi-pass software debayer on selects for the final Finish and Grade.

[David Mullen ASC]

In other words, the on-set live de-bayering is not really meant to be used for a final finished product, though it is adequate. This is totally logical, that you will be better de-bayering results by spending a little more non-real time and computer horsepower in post to do it.

[conrad gaunt]

You can implement a debeyer that performs dozens of computations per pixel , or hundreds of computations per pixel (ie 600). The difference in quality can be unimportant or important, depending on the material you`re shooting. I would expect the Dalsa realtime debeyer to be fairly robust mind you. I`d hate personally to use footage generated that way when a HQ debeyer was available in post, but time is needed to do it for sure.

[Andrew McCarrick]

Hi Andrew

I definitely think it would be worthwhile having a further discussion regarding your workflow. I am sure we can come-up with a workflow that maintains the quality as well as lets you get some sleep :-)

Well we're going to need an external box in addition to the Codex Digital Recorder, that connects to the recorder (hopefully via 10GB ethernet), that outputs 4k to two Astro 4k x 2k monitor (actually 3840 x 2160, so we need a live 96% scale (with letterbox) on the 4k material times 2 (2 x 4 dual-link) feeds); So I was thinking getting a 2k out from that aswell.

I'm hoping to record to 2k just so we have something to physically shelf (and have back-ups when it comes time to release blu-ray) instead of just having pure digital files... so that's why I wanted to do 2k to D5HD. For me the cost of doing all this doesn't matter (we have a budget of 18 mil. (when we find it anyway).) so I'd rather have redundant sources then having to convert stuff in post.