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View Full Version : Red One match with Scarlet Dragon



Shermen L
08-14-2014, 08:58 AM
If I film with Red One(MX sensor) and Scarlet Dragon on same lens( e.g. 50mm) in 4K in a scene of conversation, so I would like to get the same frame and similar depth of field with two cameras filming together, but I'm not sure if they can be identical somehow, since

Red One 4K 16:9 pixel : 4096 x 2304 Frame Dimension: 22.12 x 12.43 mm

Scarlet Dragon (4K) pixel : 4096 x 2160 Frame Dimension: 20.47 x 10. 8 mm

But if I film with 5K in scarlet dragon,

the pixel is 5700 x 2700, I assume I can crop it to the desired pixel like Red One 4K, but will the depth of field different between the Red One 4K and Scarlet Dragon 5K even I crop 5K to 4K ?

So, if I film with two cameras and to match the shots, for Scarlet Dragon 5K, do I have to cover the crop area with tape on the monitor to estimate the cropped frame ?

Hope someone can give me advice, thank you.

Stephen Williams
08-14-2014, 09:17 AM
If I film with Red One(MX sensor) and Scarlet Dragon on same lens( e.g. 50mm) in 4K in a scene of conversation, so I would like to get the same frame and similar depth of field with two cameras filming together, but I'm not sure if they can be identical somehow, since

Red One 4K 16:9 pixel : 4096 x 2304 Frame Dimension: 22.12 x 12.43 mm

Scarlet Dragon (4K) pixel : 4096 x 2160 Frame Dimension: 20.47 x 10. 8 mm

But if I film with 5K in scarlet dragon,

the pixel is 5700 x 2700, I assume I can crop it to the desired pixel like Red One 4K, but will the depth of field different between the Red One 4K and Scarlet Dragon 5K even I crop 5K to 4K ?

So, if I film with two cameras and to match the shots, for Scarlet Dragon 5K, do I have to cover the crop area with tape on the monitor to estimate the cropped frame ?

Hope someone can give me advice, thank you.

Why would you want to match the shots on 2 cameras, normally the point of shooting on 2 cameras I'd the image sizes are different. Just shoot both at 4k, the difference in the sensor is likely to be more of a worry.

Shermen L
08-14-2014, 12:17 PM
Because it's a shot reverse shot, to save time and some serious acting, I need 2 cameras to shoot with the similar depth of frame and frame size, but I'm afraid since dragon sensor is larger than MX, when I shoot both in 4K, the DOF will be different, just wonder if any format in dragon sensor produce similar DOF like MX senor in 4K, or should I get Scarlet X 4K instead, since they are same sensor ? But their scale still a little bit different from what I check from spec ...

Björn Benckert
08-14-2014, 12:30 PM
I would shoot both cameras at highest resolution / sensor size possible. The dof difference between scarlet 5k and mx 4,5k will be very hard to see if there is reversed angle. and changing the pixel count is the same as cropping in post so if you use the same lens and lens setting the dof will be the same but the fov will be different so then you can crop to the same fov on the camera with the bigger sensor if wanted. but possibly you shoot with two different focal lengths aswell and then they will differ in dof any how so not to much to worry about.

Make sure to light it so none of the cameras burn or catch noise then it's no problem to intercut the two. Here is a production where we used, 2 scarlets and a dragon, or if it was two dragons and a scarlet. and there was one canon zoom and sumercon's of different focal lengths on the other two... so not matching cameras and non matching lenses... all had the same grade. Still it's not like you feel some shots pop out due to the difference I think. :)

https://vimeo.com/88677505

pass: XXX

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Shermen L
08-14-2014, 10:46 PM
thanks so much for the info, I just want to ensure few things,
when I use the Red calculator, it's shows that using the same lens and focus distance, but with using different sensors/resolution the DOF will be different, isn't the DOF should be the same with same lens and focus distance although the image size will be different ?

Also, by using the same lens,is the lens to sensor distance is same on the body of Red One and Scarlet Dragon, so i can keep the same DOF?

I'm planning output 1.85:1, can I adjust the frame guide in Scarlet Dragon manually in different size I want in order to keep it similar the the frame guide of Red One?

thanks

Anton Shavlik
08-14-2014, 11:36 PM
The same f-stop and focal length will be the same depth of field, period. But because the sensor size is different you need to move the camera closer / further to get the same field of view, which will change the appearance of the depth of field. The depth of field equation only has 3 variables, focal length, f stop, and object distance.

Shermen L
08-15-2014, 01:19 AM
But in the Red calculation, my focal length, f stop and focus distance I set is constant, but when I change the resolution / sensor, the result of depth of field showing in the calculator is different, is there anything I miss ?

Björn Benckert
08-15-2014, 01:51 AM
But in the Red calculation, my focal length, f stop and focus distance I set is constant, but when I change the resolution / sensor, the result of depth of field showing in the calculator is different, is there anything I miss ?

No the same lens with the same distance to the object with two different sensors will give the same DOF, sensor size is just like cropping an image in photoshop it does not change the depth of field... People mix this up. It's if you want to keep the same framing with for example a 20mm lens on a 35mm camera and a 16mm camera. then you need to move closer in with the 35mm camera to match the framing of the 16 and then they get more dof... but if both cameras are at the same distance then you could take the frame of the 16mm camera and insert it in the middle of the picture from the 35mm camera and it would have the exact same dof.


And in the scenario you describe above with red one and dragon you are having very small differences in sensor size so I would not worry much if you are not trying to shoot the exact same image with the exact same framing.