Confusion with Log and Transfer in FCP 6.0.3

[kamil]

Hey everyone, first post. Been checking out the site for a while now but I finally have some RED ONE footage to play with now here come the questions. First my specs, I'm running a Mac Pro 8 core with 6GB of RAM, 10.5.2 QT 7.4.5 and FCP 6.0.3. I want to work in ProRes HQ, to cut natively and then be able to bring the final cut into Color (RD3 native can't come sooner to Color)

I've tried REDCINE but with the quicktime issues I'm getting one frozen frame all the way through. I just found out that with 6.0.3 you can do the transcode in FCP and it will use up almost all of the 8 cores. I'm getting about 3 minute render for every 1 minute red footage. One feature I like about REDCINE that I don't think I can access during FCP log and transfer is doing a first light color correction. How big of an issue is this for when I want to color correct down the road? Also it's unclear to me why the ProRes file is coming out 2048x1024. I understand that this is the 2K proxy file from the RED ONE but is it using that 2K proxy to do the transcode or is it transcoding from the original 4K REDCODE. 2048x1024 looks a little stretched to me and when I exported a test sequence at ProRes 1920x1080 the image unstretched itself. Is there a way to just get FCP to give me a 1920x1080 image. I don't really see the advantage of having a 2:1 2048x1024 image. But again I am very new to this so please feel free to enlighten me. Thanks so much.

[Reinhart]

IAlso it's unclear to me why the ProRes file is coming out 2048x1024. I understand that this is the 2K proxy file from the RED ONE but is it using that 2K proxy to do the transcode or is it transcoding from the original 4K REDCODE.

Check the readme file on installation of the L&T plugin. Currently the RED
QT codec only supports 2->1 transcoding so a 4K clip will transcode as 2K.
This will change soon. The 2K proxy file from the camera is not used at all.

[kamil]

Check the readme file on installation of the L&T plugin. Currently the RED
QT codec only supports 2->1 transcoding so a 4K clip will transcode as 2K.
This will change soon. The 2K proxy file from the camera is not used at all.

Glad to hear the proxy file isn't used. Will working with the clips at 2:1 2048x1024 cause any problems if the end product will go to HDCAM SR, blu-ray and DVD? Can I start cutting in 2048x1024 2:1 for now and in a few weeks (hopefully) when you can transcode 16x9, just swap out the 2:1 files?

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Glad to hear the proxy file isn't used. Will working with the clips at 2:1 2048x1024 cause any problems if the end product will go to HDCAM SR, blu-ray and DVD? Can I start cutting in 2048x1024 2:1 for now and in a few weeks (hopefully) when you can transcode 16x9, just swap out the 2:1 files?


just to be clear....this feature doesnt do a full debayering....
it is like working with proxies after you compressed them to ProRes via Compressor..

easy test----render out 2k Pro Res out of Redcine and compare them with the Pro Res files created through the plug in

[Dustin Cross]

Kamil,

You can also do first light color correction with the L&T tool. It is not too convenient right now though.

Take you footage into Red Alert, color correct, save the look so that you know this look goes with this clip or set of clips. Start the L&T tool. Right click on the clip in the L&T window, at the bottom of the pulldown you can select your saved looks. Add to the queue.

When you select a look it applies to all footage in the L&T tool. So the workflow I am using now is select a look, add the footage that look applies to to the queue, then select the next look, add that footage to the queue, repeat, repeat....

It is kind of a hassle, but I am sure things will only get better.

Hope that helps.


Mahalo,
Dutsy

[Etienne Caron]

just to be clear....this feature doesnt do a full debayering....
it is like working with proxies after you compressed them to ProRes via Compressor..

easy test----render out 2k Pro Res out of Redcine and compare them with the Pro Res files created through the plug in

Dont have the hardware to test... but finally, if i understand, the ProRes HQ from the Log and Transfer dont have the broadcast standard to be on HDTV ?

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Dont have the hardware to test... but finally, if i understand, the ProRes HQ from the Log and Transfer dont have the broadcast standard to be on HDTV ?

depends on what is good enough for you...

if you need heavy CC and VFX Pro Res is not a good Codec to do it anyway...

some use the proxies only for web/sd delivery with a 1st light CC...

read this link

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10487&page=2

[Etienne Caron]

depends on what is good enough for you...

if you need heavy CC and VFX Pro Res is not a good Codec to do it anyway...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10487&page=2


i know all that, my question is: Since the Log and transfer is not using the proxies, but debayering a portion of the native 4k RAW... it create a ProRes HQ that is just a PORTION OF THE FULL QUALITY ? so the result is a good 2K ProRes for broadcast (downconvert to 1080) ? or a compromise between the quality of a proxy and a ProResHQ made in RedCine for exemple ?

Does Log and transfer is a FCP gadget that doesnt speed up that much the workflow and should stick to do conversion of Raw to ProRes in Redcine ?

I know, its still BETA and we will have more official info soon... just asking.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

or a compromise between the quality of a proxy and a ProResHQ made in RedCine for exemple ?

Does Log and transfer is a FCP gadget that doesnt speed up that much the workflow and should stick to do conversion of Raw to ProRes in Redcine ?



its lower quality then full debayer........

[kamil]

Wow this can be so confusing and I have a lot to learn. Thanks for your input guys. I decided to go with ProRes HQ at 2K 2:1, cut natively, have no issues going into Color later, and now I just have to figure out how I can monitor this back at a decent cost.

[SF Geek]

Who says that FCP isn't doing the transcode from the proxies? All evidence says that it coverts to pro-res from the proxies, not from the r3d file directly like Redcine. 16:9 is not available in log and transfer. Nor is any varispeed stuff, whether it's slo-mo or time-lapse.

[kamil]

Who says that FCP isn't doing the transcode from the proxies? All evidence says that it coverts to pro-res from the proxies, not from the r3d file directly like Redcine.

What evidence?

[Matthew Rogers]

What evidence?

From my tests, the conversion time from converting the proxies to prores in compressor and in log and transfer is almost exactly the same. I would then assume it's exactly the same process...plus it just makes sense!;)

Matthew

[Shawn Booth]

Kamil - Are you having any problems with Quicktime 7.4.5?

I haven't updated yet from 7.4.1... But I also use RedCine constantly. It just keeps getting better and better the more I use it.

[kamil]

Kamil - Are you having any problems with Quicktime 7.4.5?

I haven't updated yet from 7.4.1... But I also use RedCine constantly. It just keeps getting better and better the more I use it.

Unfortunately yes I have, I did it before I even knew I would be working on a RED project. So now I'm stuck in Log and Transfer, which isn't actually so bad.

[donatello b]

perhaps render times says it all ..

original 4k clip 2:1 aspect ...

1) 1 min clip into log & transfer = 4 1/2min
2) 1 min clip ( 2k proxy) in FCP, export out "current settings ", (2k clip, 2:1 aspect) = 5 min ..
3) 1min clip (2k proxy) in FCP export out ProResHQ 1920X1080 = 6min ( clip looks slightly squeezed)
4) 1min clip into Red cine and render out to ProRes HQ (1920x1080) = 1hr 27 min ( looks slightly squeezed) ...

lookin at image FULL screen on 30" mac ..

clip #3 looks soft compared to the others & IMO not acceptable to use in final project - ok for editing ...
all other clips look excellent ...

[kamil]

perhaps render times says it all ..

original 4k clip 2:1 aspect ...

1) 1 min clip into log & transfer = 4 1/2min
2) 1 min clip ( 2k proxy) in FCP, export out "current settings ", (2k clip, 2:1 aspect) = 5 min ..
3) 1min clip (2k proxy) in FCP export out ProResHQ 1920X1080 = 6min ( clip looks slightly squeezed)
4) 1min clip into Red cine and render out to ProRes HQ (1920x1080) = 1hr 27 min ( looks slightly squeezed) ...

lookin at image FULL screen on 30" mac ..

clip #3 looks soft compared to the others & IMO not acceptable to use in final project - ok for editing ...
all other clips look excellent ...

So if #3 looks soft and worst out the 4 choices there, its safe to say that Log and transfer in 6.0.3 isn't a bad way to go if going to ProRes 422 HQ.