Super Zoom Lenses?

[sbcooler]

If I'm shooting a live event...football game from far away...say 300-400 feet away...and/or I shoot rock concerts from far away...same distance, I have read that professional networks use 70x magnification in their professional lenses.

Who sells this? Where would I look or what would I type to google this. Can't seem to find what I'm looking for?

Does anyone have experience with zoom lenses above and beyond 20x?

Thanks-

[Matthew Rogers]

You've got two options...get a lens that's got a 2x extender built into it. What they use for network football games and such are big box lens. Canon and Fujinon both make lens like this. I can't think right now what they are called though...

Matthew

[jbeale]

Note that a rating on a zoom such as 20x or 70x just indicates the ratio of wide-angle to telephoto focal length, and does not indicate the actual field of view. It sounds like what you are interested in is the long-tele range of the lens (unless you also need to take photos of the entire stadium using the same lens).

The large "box lens" used for network sports coverage may actually be 100x zoom lenses, for example the 60 pound (!) Canon 9.3-930mm XJ100x9.3B http://www.canon.com/bctv/products/digi100af.html

[Michael Hastings]

You've got two options...get a lens that's got a 2x extender built into it. What they use for network football games and such are big box lens. Canon and Fujinon both make lens like this. I can't think right now what they are called though...

Matthew

These are hugely expensive, probably 60-1000K. However, on RED since you aren't stuck with a 2/3" prism system you could get the same angle of view (about 1 degree) with a Canon 600mm SLR lens with a 1.4 or 2x extender. Or if you shot 2K you wouldn't need the extender, using the Birger intelligent mount or a similar Nikon with a nikon dumb mount.

[sbcooler]

Yes you are correct...I am needing something like 1000mm..but I like a large range...so 72x is good enough. I see they sell stuff up to 100x or so...and yes I know some of it is $150K or even a little bit more.

I'm wondering if and what I can get for a lot less..more in the 50K department.

Not sure what the best setup for something like this would be...what cam would be best and then what lenses...I know Fujinon makes these boxes as well.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

To my knowledge all the box (field) lenses you are referencing are designed for use on B4 mounts with prisms to drive 3 2/3 inch chips. You could potentially use the RED or Abekus B4 to PL adapter to get such a lens on the RedOne but it would only cover the center window for 2K imaging applications, not 4K. The stop loss on the adapter will not be an issue outdoors, or well lit indoors, and the greater DoF should actually make it easier to hold focus during a sporting event or concert.

There are longer PL mount zooms on the market, the 24 - 290 Optimo comes to mind, that could be used with 2X extenders and allow you to shoot at 4K. While this would not yield as narrow a FOV as you seek keep in mind you could crop/scale in post.

With the popularity of the RedOne and its inherent cross genre possibilities I am hopeful that one of the lens manufacturers will market a lens that has many of the operational characteristics of a high end B4 mount lens but is natively a PL unit. If that happens I hope to be in line right behind Gibby for the first units shipped :weight_lift:

[Mike Prevette]

Canon / Century 150-600mm?

[Barry Dycus]

If I'm shooting a live event...football game from far away...say 300-400 feet away...and/or I shoot rock concerts from far away...same distance, I have read that professional networks use 70x magnification in their professional lenses.

Who sells this? Where would I look or what would I type to google this. Can't seem to find what I'm looking for?

Does anyone have experience with zoom lenses above and beyond 20x?

Thanks-

Canon and Fuji make ENG/EFP not box lenses with image stabilizers 42x13.5mm and more for B4 mount limiting you to 2K but fantastic images and rated 5.6 or better. We shoot with them all the time on Varicams and when our Red is delivered will be first lens attached. (Fuji 42x13.5mm with 2 x extender) You can find them from most rental houses and there are some for purchase on used market.
Good Luck

[sbcooler]

When you say 13mm does that mean with 42x13mm that your max zoom is 546mm? And with a 2x extender 1092mm?

Thanks, just trying to understand how much zoom that is.

[Wolf]

I thought that the purpose of the offset in the 3 chip cameras (red, green and blue not focusing to the same distance) was part of a compromise to enable those long zoom ranges that you can find for B4 mount lenses for Outside Broadcasting. My understanding has been that it's much more difficult to make those long zoom ranges for single sensor cameras.

Panavision, f.ex., only make their 300X zoom for B4/Panavision F900 mount, and not for their single sensor cameras.

Well, I am not optics expert, so I might be wrong.

[sbcooler]

Who rents these massive zoom lenses...anyone in LA?

[Mitch Gross]

Abel has a Canon 40x10 with doubler and image stabilization. Beyond this and the Fuji 42x you find the Box Lenses. You can find some of these other beasts, commonly referred to as Box Lenses because of the enclosures around the optics, from big video houses such as Wexler. Please note that these are VERY large and VERY heavy, and are designed specifically to integrate only with crtain tripods, such as the Sachtler 80 or giant Vinten heads. The pan and zoom controls are located on pan arm extensions (you operate the camer from in back) and these extensions will only fit pan arms from these tripod heads. No, an O'Connor 2575 will not properly work. Our Canon 40x and the Fuji 42x will work just fine on the O'Connor or similarly beefy head.

[Barry Dycus]

Who rents these massive zoom lenses...anyone in LA?

I usually rent the Fuji 42x from VER in Atlanta but they have locations all over U.S.

Have fun!

[Steve Gibby]

With the popularity of the RedOne and its inherent cross genre possibilities I am hopeful that one of the lens manufacturers will market a lens that has many of the operational characteristics of a high end B4 mount lens but is natively a PL unit. If that happens I hope to be in line right behind Gibby for the first units shipped :weight_lift:

Amen to that, brother...

With convergence of styles and equipment, I think there is a distinct and viable market for 35mm zoom lenses that look like, have features like (servozoom units), and operate like B4 2/3" HD EFP/ENG zooms. I've been making that suggestion to lens manufacturers every since RED was first announced in December 2005. At the Fujinon NAB booth there was a PL mount 35mm cine lens prototype under glass in the middle of the booth. Fujinon and Canon B4 2/3" cine lenses use basically the same glass as some of their B4 2/3" HD EFP/ENG zooms, the big difference being the addition of a servo zoom unit. Perhaps that's the next step...

Back in 2005 myself and others suggested to RED that RS232/12v capability be included on RED ONE - and it was included in RED ONE. Due to that, when I use B4 2/3" HD EFP/ENG zooms on my REDs now (with the RED B4 adaptor), and the RED auxiliary cable that joins the hirose cable on the lenses to the RS232/12v on RED, I have full powered zoom and record button function on the lens itself. Now I want that functionality on a PL mount 35mm lens on RED - servozoom and record start/stop.

Vast portions of the motion media industry shoot their productions in various genres at usual apertures between f4 and f11, using single operators sight focusing. A lot of them would love to shoot 3k/60fps with a 35mm, servo-equipped lenses, and mobile, sight-focusing crews.

Myself and many others have had no problem sight focusing RED ONE for eight months of usage now. Convergence isn't an easy concept to embrace for most film-style traditionalists, but technology has enabled multiple alternative shooting styles and procedures.

[Steve Gibby]

Canon / Century 150-600mm?

I've been using my Canon FD 150-600 zoom on my REDs for several months now - with excellent results. Mine has the Century PL mount conversion only - the rest of the lens is stock as Canon made it. I use this lens for long focal length shooting of sports and nature.

[Steve Gibby]

The longer focal length B4 HD EFP/ENG zooms our company owns are Fujinon 42x9.7 and Fujinon 22x7.3. I've use both of them extensively on our REDs, using the RED B4 adaptor, RED EVF, RED Drive, and RED B4 cable from the lens hirose to REDs RS232/12v bus to enable powering of the lens servzooms.

We own an O'Connor 2575, which I've used for these setups with RED, but for more mobile production with these lenses on RED I also use our Miller Arrow 55.

The 2k results with these lenses has been excellent.

[chuck colburn]

There's a 150-600 on ebay right now. There is also a Canon 800mm for sale. I think I saw them both under "Arri".

[sbcooler]

If there is a lense that says 150-600 or 800mm...can I put a doubler or extender say 2x...on it...so I can get twice as close or twice as much zoom?

[chuck colburn]

If there is a lense that says 150-600 or 800mm...can I put a doubler or extender say 2x...on it...so I can get twice as close or twice as much zoom?

Most times yes. Generally best to use the extender that is sold by the company that builds the lens. Sometimes a manufacture will offer extenders that are for a given focale length range of their product line. So they will have more then one series of extenders for sale. Different brands offer different magnifications such 2X ( you loose two stops of relative aperture) 1.7X 1.5 stops lose, 1.4X 1 stop lose. So I would say chances are good that you can use an extender on either of those lenses. Using an extender with zooms can be iffy sometimes. Best to think of that big "zoom" lens as a variable focale length lens and not assume that it is going to hold focus as you vari the focale length range.

[Florian Stadler]

One of the sweetest long lens zooms around is the Hawk 150-450mm/T2.8 zoom.

[chuck colburn]

Are all the Hawks anamorphic?

[Wolf]

The Hawk 150-450T2.8 is Spherical. And just to second what Florian said: A very nice lens! You can get the lens in an Anamorphic version too, but then it's a 300-900T4.

[chuck colburn]

Thanks Wolf,

300-900 T4 Yummy! Squeezeeee me baby!

[Mitch Gross]

There's also the Elite 120-520 T3, available for rent from Slow Motion in LA. We stuck it on a Phantom HD for kicks and shot surfers about a mile away. What an amazing monster lens. It becomes a 170-730 T4 with the 1.4x extender and a 240-1040 T5.6 with the 2x extender. It's also several feet long, possibly the largest lens I've ever mounted on a camera. Makes the Optimo 12x look like a prime!

[Fredrik Callinggard]

There's also the Lomo 25-500mm, which becomes 100-1000mm. Now that's a monster. I have one...... 44lbs hahahaha. It's also around 19" diameter.


Fredrik

[sbcooler]

My Sony Z1u camera says 12x (32.5-390mm).

So if I am looking at a lense on a 2/3" sensor...say a Panasonic HPX 3000, that has say 540mm and I put a 2x extender on it..that would give me 1080mm?

And if so, would that then be approximately 3 times closer at maximum zoom as my Z1u at maximum zoom?

I am trying to compare about how much closer something looks like compared to my current setup?

THx-

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The range of sensor sizes: 1/3", 2/3" and Super35 (roughly 1.33") being discussed here create a far greater field of view differential at specific focal lengths as expressed in millimeters than one might expect. This thread was started by a poster looking for "super" zoom options with a lot of reach and lot of range who cited "box" lenses used for sports and concerts.

If 2K resolution is sufficient for your project then a B4 adapter, bomber tripod head (the Vinten 75 is a work of art) with one of the many field lenses offered by Canon or Fujinon is your answer. If you require 4K rez then I would suggest you research and if possible rent several of the lenses cited in this thread to see if they meet your needs.

Will the lens manufacturers recognize that the RedOne and other next generation electronic cameras are impacting the level of demand for "super" zoom lenses for anything but 2/3" 3CCD cameras anytime soon? I recently took a booking to shoot a multi-RedOne concert and will likely spec the big Optimo for the back of the house position. Its a great lens but unless I can get within 160 feet of the stage the 290mm end of the bottle will leave me wishing for more.

Concerts, and to a lesser degree Sports, should make compelling 4K programs - particularly for theatrical showings on the Sony 4K SXRD. Now, who's going to step up and lay out the coin to develop lenses designed specifically for this use? I am certainly not an optics expert but from what I do know the requirements of resolving 4K at high magnification and maintaining precise focus over a large range of focal lengths with multi-element design is asking a great deal of lens designers and builders.

[sbcooler]

I started this post! I appreciate the info. I still would like to know some general comparison (so I know if I need 300mm, 600mm, 1200mm or more...these are huge price differences) between what my Sony Z1u (1/3" sensor) shoots at maximum zoom vs. what a 2/3" sensor would shoot as some specific mm length...then I can figure out how much zoom I need.

And my final output is 1080p, so I don't need to go beyond that...I know I can shoot higher and downsize and get some digital no loss zoom there as well if shooting at 2K, 3K or 4K.

If I did red which I know is a 35mm sensor, yes, I am wondering for that too, what would be the equivalent zoom I would need roughly so I am not wanting more.

Again all comparisons to my Sony Z1u make sense to me as that is what I shoot with today. Anything else and I don't quite know what that really means.