RED market penetration in smaller markets - just a thought

[Gunleik Groven]

As a sidenote to the "This should make Graeme laugh" thread, some of the issues discussed have been interesting me from the beginning.

I thought from the start that RED would have greater market penetration (as a film substitute cam) in smaller markets than in - say the US.

In hollywood, the choices are so many, while where I come from - you cannot really choose between film/dalsa/panavision/D20/RED

It's more like: 16mm/35mm/Varicam/F900/HPX3000/RED
Also we have limited (but good) choices down the production lane.

In Norway - I think - RED ONE/EPIC will be a no-brainer in a year or two, simply because the budgets are of a totally different magnitude. A funded Norwegian film has a budget of 1-4 mill $. FilmStock and developing certainly hurts these kinds of budgets. And make up for some of the cultural miscommunication seen on this board - me thinks...

This doesn't even reach the "indie" levels the American guys on this forum are mentioning.

I don't know how many cams are sold around the world, but I think this analysis is reflected pretty well in the sales to Norway (which I guess must be a relatively good read for RED for a 4.5 mill country...) and I thought the big sales would initially NOT be in North America, due to the sceptism and availiability of alternatives. That the HPX-500 price point would put more people off. While in smaller markets, some of the discussions I see here seem... unfamiliar :)

On a RED vs 35mm test I attended last fall, one of the DPs was asked whether he would shoot RED insted of 35mm. His answer was: Maybe instead of 16mm when the system has matured... Of course we have people who have this perspective here, too. AND: The test was done on a buggy pre-X cam. They had serious issues and it's very understandable that it wasn't love @ first sight. But still... They showed us 4k filmouts and 35mm prints that partly defied that statement image-wise.

There was a Sony Rep in the audience, and he asked how many was on order, and I think I saw close to 20 arms. If he had asked how many F23s was on order, they would have been fewer. More close to zero AFAIK. Not because of quality (that's not my point here. I've never seen a F23 image first hand), but basically by magnitude of economics. In smaller markets we have a much higher insentive to find our way through new workflows and working styles, simply because the alternatives are not here to the same extent.

Or am I wrong?

[Jeff Mustaman]

I think your absolutly right about this. In the Netherlands it's just the same.

[Jef Costello]

I also believe your assessment is accurate Gunleik.

I'm not sure how many REDs have been ordered from Turkey, but it will have a tremendous impact here within a couple of years or less.

The problem for Turkey is actually purchasing the camera from the US. Too many difficulties with customs.

There has to be local/regional distributors to facilitate the purchasing process and further strengthen the sales of RED in distant markets.

[peter roehsler]

Austria is not much different. In fact we will start shooting a no-budget feature next week with a total of $ 200.000. Had it not been for RED, we´d be looking at some prosumer cams with a P+S adapter, carefully selecting focal lengths as not to run rental costs up to high.
RED therefore is not an alternative with certain budgets, it´s the only way.

[Jeff Coatney]

Red's reservation system and the manufacturing ramp-up they're currently in have created an artificial bias toward faster US market penetration. Once production of cameras and accessories levels out and inventories stabilize, I think you will see that RED's global marketshare will increase dramatically. The weak US dollar and the stranglehold on credit here will tilt the ground more in favor of the European market. You guys may have to wait a bit longer, but RED is coming your way with a vengeance. I expect the European market and the Asia Pacific markets to dwarf to US in overall sales.

[Billy McCannon]

I would share your perspective Gunleik.

The camera hasn't had the impact I expected yet as people are weary of new cameras and workflows so it's difficult to get excited about something that hasn't been proven to work in the local environment. The lack of European service and distribution is further impediment. The fact that there has not been any mention of Red service in Prague or any where else in Europe for over a year is not encouraging.

[Warwick Brown]

I think that no matter where you are in the world this camera leaves the major camera manufacturers with there jaws on the floor as their captive audience(us as camera people) walk away in the hundreds and thousands to a show with so so much more. i feel very lucky to be a part of this as it all happens.

[Michael Stanmore]

Also, once we get our red setup here, we are very interested in working with production companies all over Europe, and we will fly out with our gear as much as we can. We're in it partially for the caper...so we'd always be up for negotiating a deal that productions from all around Europe can afford.

[Gunleik Groven]

and you are based where?

[JohnLands]

This year I was asked what camera to use for a action movie. Big budget almost 30 million. I said the red for its vari speed and light weight. They went with the f23s and paid. They had so many problems it was silly it makes red errors and problems seem a walk in the park compared to there problems. Not to mention the camera weights close to 40 pounds in hand held mode. and the color viewfinders has a 8-12 frame delay, Kinda bad when trying to shoot action. My point is sony makes really hard to use gear and does not design it for film making it makes cameras for the japan tv market like it always has. I could talk about that for hours but honestly the red is in a league of its own and shouldnt be compared to anything else 35mm viper hvx200 because it is unlike anything on the market. The camera is for those who get it and anyone else can spend more money and time and shoot on f23s or vari cams with lense adapters but red is not going to take the place of film until they have a different sensor a different shutter and no compression.