Moving Red

[McCloud]

Since Red represents a relatively inexpensive way to capture at 4k and Dollys, Steadicams, TechnoCranes and their respective crews are still relatively expensive ways to move the camera. Do any of you have any ingenious ways to move Red through a shot? Something to match the Red in it's leap forward.

[Brook Willard]

Yep... go handheld or rent the pieces of equipment you listed. You could always buy a camera slider and have fun with that. I swear by them...

But if the question is regarding RED making camera support equipment/dollies/cranes/etc... I wouldn't hold your breath.

[Erik Rangel]

skateboard. shopping cart. ladder.

[Poi Boy]

midgets.
-A

[chuck colburn]

Just hard mount your steadicam arm on this and you've got the ultimate doorway dolly!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91495

[Michael Ragen]

Hey Brook, want to recommend a brand of slider? Maybe something affordable. I've never used one but they look interesting.

[Jaime Vallés]

Just hard mount your steadicam arm on this and you've got the ultimate doorway dolly!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91495

Dude, that's actually a really good idea. $40 for a rideable dolly. Not bad at all. :construction:

[PaulClements]

Just hard mount your steadicam arm on this and you've got the ultimate doorway dolly!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91495

hehe, that thing looks cool, though I would have to spray it black and stick a $400 price tag on it before I'd consider it for use in the movie business :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

hehe, that thing looks cool, though I would have to spray it black and stick a $400 price tag on it before I'd consider it for use in the movie business :)

Don't forget your unionized operator that goes with it at $250/day.

[chuck colburn]

hehe, that thing looks cool, though I would have to spray it black and stick a $400 price tag on it before I'd consider it for use in the movie business :)

Paul,

Yeah I guess you could do that, but then it would'nt match your John Deere tractor!

Chuck

[Phil Becque]

Now don't laugh - at least not out loud - but check these guys out:

http://www.b-hague.co.uk/Camcorder_Jib_Boom.htm

I guess these are a little on the light weight side - they may work OK though? I've seen their stuff in shows and it's suprisingly sturdy.

All the best, Phil

[Brook Willard]

Hey Brook, want to recommend a brand of slider? Maybe something affordable. I've never used one but they look interesting.

I've only used The Slider (http://www.theslider.com/) and the JB Slider (http://www.jbslider.com/). I'm not sure if there are other quality sliders on the market.

Both were great but both were expensive. I generally like to use a 4-6' slider on a Fisher 10 [you can get some really interesting/dynamic shots out of such a setup] and a 6-8' slider on sticks/babys. Having a slider is fantastic for camera moves where a dolly would be unreasonable.

For example, this past weekend I needed a dolly shot on the side of a hill. If I had a slider, I would've been set up in 5 minutes. Unfortunately, there wasn't room in the budget for the slider, so I had to have my grips build a city out of every single applebox in the truck to support 18 feet of track. In the end I got a longer move, yes... but I lost time and had to carry a 450lb dolly up a hill.

[Dominic Jones]

I've tried the Hague jib at a trade show and it's really not that bad for the price.

Not sure it would handle a kitted-out Red though - they're designed for use with DV cameras, at the end of the day!

[Ken Willinger]

Just hard mount your steadicam arm on this and you've got the ultimate doorway dolly!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91495

Funny you should post this. I worked on a kids show for PBS (Fetch!) and all the studio work was done handheld...but the kids mostly sat on the floor or very low chairs. So each camera (there were two) had one of those garden wheelies and we operated off the shoulder tooling around on those things. Worked very well!

[Terry Delahunt]

Originally posted by Phil

http://www.b-hague.co.uk/Camcorder_Jib_Boom.htm

I guess these are a little on the light weight side - they may work OK though? I've seen their stuff in shows and it's suprisingly sturdy.


The Red body is around 8 pounds = 3.62 kilogram

"At it's standard or short length it will support up to 14kg."

What does the rest weigh?

[Ace]

What about balloons? Ive always been curious to use helium balloons as a stablised camera rig.. Youd have perfectly dampened movements in the Y axis. I think ive seen one floating around the forum a year back.

[Phil Becque]

The Red body is around 8 pounds = 3.62 kilogram

"At it's standard or short length it will support up to 14kg."

What does the rest weigh?

Well that's just my point Terry - I think you can get a RED + Nikon Lens + a bit of motorised gear and still come in under 10Kgs. In which case the Multi Jib might do the job for you. Not ideal admittedly but when needs must . . .

Best regards, Phil

[Phil Becque]

What about balloons? Ive always been curious to use helium balloons as a stablised camera rig.. Youd have perfectly dampened movements in the Y axis. I think ive seen one floating around the forum a year back.

Can you send me some of the stuff you're on please? I need a lift . . . .:blink:

[Sam Druckerman]

What about balloons? Ive always been curious to use helium balloons as a stablised camera rig.. Youd have perfectly dampened movements in the Y axis. I think ive seen one floating around the forum a year back.

That's not a crazy idea. In fact, way back in the day, D.W. Griffith used balloons to float the camera. Intolerance, I think had a Hot air balloon shot.

I saw another shot in a DVD about film makers ..... I can't remember the name of the film, but there was a balloon rig over a city street that floated overhead moving down the street. That one I believe had the balloons attached to the camera with ropes held by a couple of guy's on the ground. Great affect.

Someday I want to try that myself.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I don't recall the web address or even if it's still online. But there was a balloon web cam out there somewhere. It let random visitors remote control the balloon and fly it all around an office... Employees would shoot rubber bands at it or push it around or spin it. Kinda fun.

[Phil Becque]

That's not a crazy idea. In fact, way back in the day, D.W. Griffith used balloons to float the camera. Intolerance, I think had a Hot air balloon shot.

I saw another shot in a DVD about film makers ..... I can't remember the name of the film, but there was a balloon rig over a city street that floated overhead moving down the street. That one I believe had the balloons attached to the camera with ropes held by a couple of guy's on the ground. Great affect.

Someday I want to try that myself.

Well good luck to you Sam. Where I live hot air ballons are only seen in the skies for about 3 days of the year. Most other times it's either too windy, or too rainy, or too dark, or if you got your balloon out most other days the first thing it would do, would be to disappear into a cloud. So forgive me if I find your idea laughably implausible :bleh:

The one time I saw the BBC use a balloon for a wild life shot in the African desert (no clouds there then) they managed to run the whole camera rig (top of the line HD) which was suspended underneath the ballon, straight into the upper branches of a rather large and some might say, 'unforgiving' tree. I distinctly heard the camera operator say "We're going to run into that F***ING tree you cretin" to the guy 'steering' the balloon.

Ohhh how I laughed.

These professionals were displaying the kind of incompetence I've become so used to over the years . . . . Ha bleeding ha!! And I thought it was just me!

Any more amusing stories anyone wants to own up to??

[chuck colburn]

Acehole!

Your suppose to fill the ballons up with Helium not Nitrous Oxide. Now put that "F" tank back in the doctors office where you found it. Oh yeah, the boys at the bar want to know if your avatar is a photograph of youself.
How about home built rockets! Launch one of those puppies from your backyard and when it reaches it's zenith blow the nose cone and float the camera down on a parachute! There are lots of web sites on the construction of home built rockets, but I only access such stuff when at the public library...you never know who's lurking out there.lol

[Phil Becque]

As one of the 'boys' (snigger) at the bar Chuck - I too would like to know the answer to that question? But that's a bit like asking a girl what color underwear she has on - and as such it's very likely to illicit that standard response.

Of course in the UK these days you never have to ask this question as 90% of the slappers wandering around have their underwear clearly, and some might say pointedly and permanently on display. Highly strung thongs and low strung jeans have a lot to answer for in taking the 'mystery' out of life.

Anyway - good luck!

All the beast - I mean best, Phil

[Sam Druckerman]

Well good luck to you Sam. Where I live hot air ballons are only seen in the skies for about 3 days of the year. Most other times it's either too windy, or too rainy, or too dark, or if you got your balloon out most other days the first thing it would do, would be to disappear into a cloud.

Hmmmm. Sounds like it's time to think about moving?

I, for one could never live where I coulnd't float a balloon at least....... 6 days a year.

Life's too short.

[CVB]

What about balloons? Ive always been curious to use helium balloons as a stablised camera rig.. Youd have perfectly dampened movements in the Y axis. I think ive seen one floating around the forum a year back.

****WARNING - MATH CONTENT***

Helium has a lifting force of 1 gram per liter, Assuming your camera weights in at 10 kilograms you would need 10,000 liters (10,000,000 cm^3) of helium. Now, assuming that a typical balloon has a diameter of approximately 25 centimeters, it would have a volume of: 4/3 * 3.14159 * 25^2 = 2617 cm^3.

The total number of regular baloons you would need comes out to : 10,000,000 cm^3/2617 cm^3 = 3821 balloons.

Hot air balloons are another story.. you'd need bazillions of them to cover what helium can do.

***END OF WARNING***

That might be a bit difficult for indoor use... If you were to use the balloons on a cold day you might get a bit more buoyancy out of them so you could probably ditch 10 balloons :)

[Roxco]

These professionals were displaying the kind of incompetence I've become so used to over the years . . . . Ha bleeding ha!! And I thought it was just me!

Any more amusing stories anyone wants to own up to??

My favorite old NAB story is the news guy who dropped the camera out the helo - thankfully he was wide and the picture was great all the way down.

I guess the lens cushioned the hit cuz either the tape survived or someone did a great mock-up of a dropped camera.

Rosco

P.S. And more evidence that Sony makes great boat anchors!

[Phil Becque]

Ha ha ha - what a lovely vision - if only some had a CU of his face as he let go ! Wonderful! Any more heroic failures out there ?? C'mon there must be loads. Phil

[Michael Schrengohst]

All the chopper pilots I fly with make sure the camera is tethered to the chopper. It is their ass if something falls out and causes injury, death or other property damage. More and more however I hire out to a company that has a nose mounted, gyro stabilized camera.
http://skyhelicopters.com/
These guys say they are getting a RED. Not sure I need to call and ask.
Look under - ENG -
ANNOUNCING ULTRA HIGH DEFINITION PLATFORM

[Dan Blanchett]

I built a skateboard dolly (with 20 feet of PVC pipe) about 8 years ago for a short film. Cost about $100 and still works like a charm. Very smooth.

On another note, anyone use the Kessler Cranes? They have a couple that support a decent amount of weight:

http://www.kesslercrane.com/

[Michael Schrengohst]

I built a skateboard dolly (with 20 feet of PVC pipe) about 8 years ago for a short film. Cost about $100 and still works like a charm. Very smooth.

On another note, anyone use the Kessler Cranes? They have a couple that support a decent amount of weight:

http://www.kesslercrane.com/

My Kessler Crane is on the way.....
I will let you know.

[Dan Blanchett]

My Kessler Crane is on the way.....
I will let you know.

Great! If you can test a camera that is comparable in weight to a fully outfitted RED ONE (say, with a medium sized ZOOM), even better, but any feedback is welcome.

[Chris Gearhart]

****WARNING - MORE MATH CONTENT***

Red Bull has a lifting force of 10 grams per liter, Assuming your camera weights in at 10 kilograms you would only 1,000 liters (100,000 cm^3) of Red Bull. Now, assuming that a stomach has a diameter of approximately 25 centimeters, it would have a volume of: 4/3 * 3.14159 * 25^2 = 2617 cm^3.

The total number of regular stomachs you would need comes out to : 100,000 cm^3/2617 cm^3 = 38 stomachs.

***END OF WARNING***

This would be perfect for indoor use.

. . .pr- . . . provided you have 38 people drinking Red Bull. Inside.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

if anyone in orange county area needs some ariels let me know..
i do not have an aircraft of my own (bought a RED ONE INSTEAD)
but i can fly single engine, twin engine, jet aircraft
no helicopter yet:(

[Phil Becque]

****WARNING - MORE MATH CONTENT***

Red Bull has a lifting force of 10 grams per liter, Assuming your camera weights in at 10 kilograms you would only 1,000 liters (100,000 cm^3) of Red Bull. Now, assuming that a stomach has a diameter of approximately 25 centimeters, it would have a volume of: 4/3 * 3.14159 * 25^2 = 2617 cm^3.

The total number of regular stomachs you would need comes out to : 100,000 cm^3/2617 cm^3 = 38 stomachs.

***END OF WARNING***

This would be perfect for indoor use.

. . .pr- . . . provided you have 38 people drinking Red Bull. Inside.

Ha ha ha ! I like the way you're thinking; though you may need a minor correction to your math - I think the formula for volume is: 4/3 x pi x R cubed
in any event that much RED Bull is likely to create another gas with entirely different flamable properties from Helium which is inert. I think we back to the hotair outside scenario with this one though . . . . .

[Adrian T.]

Now, assuming that a typical balloon has a diameter of approximately 25 centimeters, it would have a volume of: 4/3 * 3.14159 * 25^2 = 2617 cm^3.

Not quite. The formula for the volume of a sphere is 4/3 * pi * radius^3. So this is 4/3 * 3.14159 * 12.5^3 = 8181 cm^3.


The total number of regular baloons you would need comes out to : 10,000,000 cm^3/2617 cm^3 = 3821 balloons.

10,000,000 cm^3 / 8181 cm^3 = 1,222 balloons. So it's not that impossible after all... :nerd:

[Ace]

Okay very funny! By Balloon I actually meant one of these. Which would be good for outdoor shooting as long as its teathered to your waist with a security cable.

http://mobry.dyndns.org/%7Ebhorling/photos/Misc/balloon.GIF

[Michael Schrengohst]

This is what you need:

http://www.personalblimp.com/

[Ace]

This is what you need:

http://www.personalblimp.com/

Overkill but I love it!

[Michael Schrengohst]

Or try this:

http://www.clusterballoon.org/

[Ace]

Or try this:

http://www.clusterballoon.org/

"Control is achieved by releasing ballast to ascend, or by bursting balloons to descend. "

The control mechanism just reeks of safety!

[CVB]

OK OK.. duh.. my bad on the math. I suffer from a little know ailment called advanced math syndrome. Give me a differential equation and I can bust it out but simple things like volumes of a sphere and I choke. Regardless its a lot of balloons.

[Sam Druckerman]

Okay very funny! By Balloon I actually meant one of these. Which would be good for outdoor shooting as long as its teathered to your waist with a security cable.

http://mobry.dyndns.org/%7Ebhorling/photos/Misc/balloon.GIF

Nice, I was thinking weather balloon.

Ace, you have any info or a link for that one?

[Adrian T.]

By Balloon I actually meant one of these.

Ok, let's see what diameter we'd need for a RED ONE:
cubic root of (10,000,000 cm^3 / 3.14159 * 3/4) = 133.65 cm
So you'd need a balloon with a diameter of 2.67 meters! :nerd:

[Jared VanLeuven]

The one time I saw the BBC use a balloon for a wild life shot in the African desert (no clouds there then) they managed to run the whole camera rig (top of the line HD) which was suspended underneath the ballon, straight into the upper branches of a rather large and some might say, 'unforgiving' tree. I distinctly heard the camera operator say "We're going to run into that F***ING tree you cretin" to the guy 'steering' the balloon.

They had almost that exact scenario on one of the "behind-the-scenes" vignettes on one of the Planet Earth episodes. We were cringing.

[Adrian T.]

...and if you want to raise together with your beloved RED ONE you'd need a balloon with a diameter of 5.5 meters! :nerd:

[Ace]

Nice, I was thinking weather balloon.

Ace, you have any info or a link for that one?

Its actually just a stock standard mini weather balloon I found on google images.

Im thinking it would be sufficient to keep a RED suspended just enough so that an operator could use it as a 3 dimensional floating dolly