Build 16 ETA or Fixed 15

[roryhinds]

Please could RED let us know when Build 16 will be released.

Having to shoot with Build 13 is crap when such goodness is almost there.

[Axel Mertes]

The last news did not necessarily sound like if build 16 itself were the main issue, but they have to rewrite code for RED CINE, RED LINE, RED ALERT and all other apps at the same time.

But I agree, as so many other obstacles hinder the current release of cameras, it may be interesting what happens on the build 16 frontier in terms of "time". We are very eager to learn the details, finally...

Unfortunately its probably not the same poeple who work on build 16, as who may have now some spare time due to the rejected cameras delay :( but thats a total speculation from my side, for which I may be blamed the other day...

Looking forward to seeing build16...

Axel

[Kristina Winn]

Speaking of builds ... and I haven't seen any mention of this ... is there any knowledge on how many possible "builds" Red is going to come out with? Or will it be like a computer where there are always constant upgrades and improvements?

Kristina

[Axel Mertes]

Kristina,

we hope there will be many many many updates, that should all add our latest ideas and wishes.

Well, realistically they will probably nail down on a more or less "final" release after a while. But that can be years from now. It can be sooner, but as long as the product is very actively "living" I expect them to support it in that manner.

Best wishes,
Axel

[Adrian T.]

I would appreciate if they at least fixed build 15. This is by no means a release version with all that LCD flickering and crashes during playback from drive. :wacko:

RED, please give us a stable release version we can work with! :help:

[Kristina Winn]

Big Lebowski - Does the LCD flicker at any time? I haven't encountered this on our cam (build 15). As well, does the crashing happen at all with the cards? Sorry, this may have been addressed on another thread.

And Axel,

I agree, I was excited to upgrade from build 11 to build 15 with our cam. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with as far as improvements and goodies.

Kristina :o)

[Stuart English]

I would appreciate if they at least fixed build 15. This is by no means a release version with all that LCD flickering and crashes during playback from drive

I think I have explained this elsewhere before, but after digging into those issues reported from the field, we find that the root causes of the LCD flicker and "codec" errors - both are limited to / occur most frequently in 4K 16:9 - are programmable hardware related, so there will not be a Build 15 "fix". They come in Build 16.

[Adrian T.]

Big Lebowski - Does the LCD flicker at any time? I haven't encountered this on our cam (build 15).

You can only see it when there's heavy movement in the picture. It seems like the bottom part of the frame buffer is not in sync. It's like 1 frame behind.


As well, does the crashing happen at all with the cards? Sorry, this may have been addressed on another thread.

No problem with the cards. But playing back from the drive crashes more often than not.

[Adrian T.]

I think I have explained this elsewhere before, but after digging into those issues reported from the field, we find that the root causes of the LCD flicker and "codec" errors - both are limited to / occur most frequently in 4K 16:9 - are programmable hardware related, so there will not be a Build 15 "fix". They come in Build 16.

Stuart,

Thanks for the explanation. Must have missed your post, sorry.

So, in this case: hurry up with build 16! :biggrin:

(just kidding, please make it stable, that's most important now)

[Jannard]

Until we get back to regular production levels, we do not have much credibility. Having said that, the inside group is playing with/testing pre-Alpha-3 Build 16... including me.

We are rebuilding this build a bit different than any other... by layers. No more complete rebuilds. The test build I have is 60% complete and it is everything we could have hoped. This is not intended to be hype or a "look over here so you don't notice our problems" deal. It is just an update like all others, good or bad.

We promised that Build 16 would be monumental. I'll say now that you will feel like you have a different camera. Like you just bought RED TWO. We still have to layer on the last 40%. I will say that we have had the last 40% working on previous builds when the 1st 60% failed, so we are cautiously optimistic.

We have had a very rough week. Every one of us is working like we are three people. But Build 16 is coming. 1st Alpha to a handful (don't ask), then beta to all our customers (don't ask when). Just be prepared to put your helmet on when you do get to "load 'er up".

Jim

[combatentropy]

We have had a very rough week. Every one of us is working like we are three people. But Build 16 is coming.

As a computer programmer, I can testify that software is likely three times as complicated as the hardware it runs on.

So I can empathize with Red's monumental task.

The one piece of advice I can offer Red -- if I may be so bold -- is KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).

I also really like the book Getting Real. In fact, it reminds me somewhat of Jim & Co. Have y'all read it? -- http://gettingreal.37signals.com/

[Frank Weeks]

We promised that Build 16 would be monumental. I'll say now that you will feel like you have a different camera. Like you just bought RED TWO
Damm Jim

Your making feel good about my camera being delayed. I'll be getting Red II.
Can't wait

[Thor Wixom]

I think I have explained this elsewhere before, but after digging into those issues reported from the field, we find that the root causes of the LCD flicker and "codec" errors - both are limited to / occur most frequently in 4K 16:9 - are programmable hardware related, so there will not be a Build 15 "fix". They come in Build 16.

EDIT:

I just want to say that I should have mentioned this to Red support first, before posting about it on this thread. My bad.

My apologies to Red, and to Stuart.

END EDIT.

Stuart,

I have had major codec error problems in 4k 2:1.

It has mostly happened with complex scenes that involve a lot of motion.

For example, I did a shoot recently for a Harley Davidson commercial. They rented me a convertible and I set the camera up camera so it could pan 360 degrees.

When I would shoot sideways, and then pan to the Harleys (either in front of or in back of the car) it would drop frames, and give me a codec error message. The slower we went (under 45) the better the luck we had, and the more straight on the shot was, the less frames we dropped. Interestingly, we had less problems with the CF cards.

I'm glad a fix for this is planned in build 16.

-Thor

[Thor Wixom]

Until we get back to regular production levels, we do not have much credibility. Having said that, the inside group is playing with/testing pre-Alpha-3 Build 16... including me.

We are rebuilding this build a bit different than any other... by layers. No more complete rebuilds. The test build I have is 60% complete and it is everything we could have hoped. This is not intended to be hype or a "look over here so you don't notice our problems" deal. It is just an update like all others, good or bad.

We promised that Build 16 would be monumental. I'll say now that you will feel like you have a different camera. Like you just bought RED TWO. We still have to layer on the last 40%. I will say that we have had the last 40% working on previous builds when the 1st 60% failed, so we are cautiously optimistic.

We have had a very rough week. Every one of us is working like we are three people. But Build 16 is coming. 1st Alpha to a handful (don't ask), then beta to all our customers (don't ask when). Just be prepared to put your helmet on when you do get to "load 'er up".

Jim

Rome was not built in one day.

-Thor

[Warren Kommers]

Stuart,

So besides image improvement does 16 then take on these "lots o detail" codec errors that seemed to be solved around 12-13 and then returned in 15. Especially 16x9?

[Sanjin Jukic]

We promised that Build 16 would be monumental. I'll say now that you will feel like you have a different camera. Like you just bought RED TWO.

Jim

I love the RED TWO comparison very much.

[Karl H]

I think (could be wrong) that this is the first time that Redcode has been rebuilt from scratch since the beginning, this could also have a positive impact on Redcode's playback performance too. At least I hope this is part of the reason for the rebuilt of Redcode. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but we could see major speed enhancements in redcine and FCP from the new code.

[Stuart English]

Thor that's consistent with what we know. We are on the case... I'll P.M you for more details.

[Brent J. Craig]

Interestingly, we had less problems with the CF cards.

Spinning hard drives + Moving vehicle = dropped frames.

It's not really a firmware problem when you have failures while using gear in non-recommended ways.

[HD Hildebrand]

16x9 just does not work for me. 2:1 works great. What I'd really like to know as well - will phantom power be fixed? The sooner I can know the better, for if I need to get something built to deal with the phantom power issue, I'd like to know asap.

[Stephen Pruitt]

I would really like to see a Beta of Build 16 by May 18th. . . any chance?

Stephen

[Antoine Fabi]

I think I have explained this elsewhere before, but after digging into those issues reported from the field, we find that the root causes of the LCD flicker and "codec" errors - both are limited to / occur most frequently in 4K 16:9 - are programmable hardware related, so there will not be a Build 15 "fix". They come in Build 16.

Stuart,

I often see the LCD flicker problem with 4K 2:1 also.
...but it doesn't happen all the time. :)

[Miltos Pilalitos]

The flicker appears when you press Full screen on the LCD, the Button 2 (Zoom) on the left of the camera and then Full Screen again to return to normal viewing mode (With histogram, etc).

To remove the flicker press Button 2 two times. Once to zoom in and once to zoom out. Flicker gone...

[Warren Kommers]

Spinning hard drives + Moving vehicle = dropped frames.

It's not really a firmware problem when you have failures while using gear in non-recommended ways.

Maybe but I doubt it. He said it worked until he started counter panning with the movement of the car. I've shaked the hell out of my red drive(near as hard as I could) in handheld and never got it to drop frames. Seems like it has to be really tight vibration like Tyler mounts and hostess trays.

[David Wyatt]

I noticed the lower-screen flicker/stutter on only one of two Red LCDs recently on a two camera shoot (I think it was one of the newer LCDs on one of the newer Red camera models? I failed to check whether the problem persisted with the problem monitor on the older Red camera). Both cameras on Release Build 15. The stutter disappeared after I changed from 4K 2:1 to 3K 2:1 and changed the varispeed frame rate to 50fps. When I changed back to 4K 2:1 there was still no stutter. As far as I know the stutter didn't come back of the rest of the shoot.

[Warren Kommers]

I haven't seen the lower frame stutter for awhile. However I have seen a subtle rolling wave of brightness in my LCD. I feel like I read something about this being part of 15 as well. Can anyone confirm this?

[Thor Wixom]

Spinning hard drives + Moving vehicle = dropped frames.

It's not really a firmware problem when you have failures while using gear in non-recommended ways.

Crewpix,

It dropped frames with the CF cards, too. Just not as many, or as often. The panning seemed to worsen the problem.

Anyway, Stuart and Red are on it. :-)

-Thor

[Chris Bell]

I get the LCD flicker in 4K and 3K 2:1 frequently.

Christopher Bell
www.spotshooter.com

[Michael Ragen]

I get the flicker almost constantly when I don't have the lcd zoomed in with the upper right button on top of the monitor which makes it completely disappear.