Build 16 Warning!

[Jannard]

Build 16 is a monumental change to everything RED as far as the image quality, DSP and methodology is concerned. You may be surprised at how different it is from previous builds in how it looks and works. You will have to alter your thinking just a bit. What you see on the monitor and how you make exposure decisions will change. All for the better, but it will be a change.

We all wish we had done this from the beginning, but you have to walk before you run.

We just don't want anyone to be shocked when you fire it up.

Alpha build is just around the corner. Depending on the feedback we get from those chosen few, the Beta build should not be long after.

Exciting times.

Now, back to solving production problems... ugh.

Jim

[Ivan G]

Bring It!!!!!

[Poi Boy]

Bring It!!!!!

Indeed, can't wait !
Aloha
-A

[radiant]

Jim,
Thank you for the info. You know we will put the camera to it's full test.

I will be giving everyone on the board our feedback.

Thanks again

[Clint Johnson]

We all wish we had done this from the beginning, but you have to walk before you run.

It feels to me like you just bypassed that whole walking phase?

Some times you have to run before you can walk... and then you have to solve the icing problem while plummeting from 70,000 feet.

And I'm loving every minute of it- can't wait for 16.

[Ken Willinger]

Sounds exciting...just getting used to what I have now!

[KETCH ROSSi]

Fantastic!!!

(not that I haven't already been blown away by the Build 15, and so the people that have been showed to)

Ciao

[Joel Kaye]

You may be surprised at how different it is from previous builds in how it looks and works. You will have to alter your thinking just a bit. What you see on the monitor and how you make exposure decisions will change.

Like, we're going to have to read tea leaves?

I'm kinda racking my brain as to how different it could possibly be. Perhaps ISO could go away entirely and it would be all about the histograms and false color.

Can't be that different.

[Gunleik Groven]

I'm here, ready to break my neck... :)

[Steve Sherrick]

Jim,

Some questions for you.

1. Build 16 sounds exciting, but will there be any conflicts with existing footage? You've mentioned that REDCINE, RED Alert have all had to go through re-writes, and I'm wondering if we will see any issues with say mixing proxy files from footage shot on build 15 with proxies from build 16?

2. Now that we have had time to play with RED footage as it stands now, will you be releasing a comprehensive guide along with the build 16 rollout that goes into detail what has changed, best practices for using the new build, etc. I only ask because when I see monumental change mentioned, that makes me want to know exactly what has changed so I can re-program my brain.

3. This may be a Graeme question, but what exactly have you discovered that made you go back to the drawing board and rework a lot of this? I'm all for improvements to image quality but curiosity is getting the best of me.

Thanks Jim, and look forward to seeing what you and the team have come up with.

[Luis Otero]

...What you see on the monitor and how you make exposure decisions will change. All for the better, but it will be a change...
We just don't want anyone to be shocked when you fire it up...

Jim

This almost sounds like we will need to re-learn how to film using Red!!! I good training video (shot on Red, of course) will not be a bad idea if it is so radical...:waaa:

[number6]

I just wonder if it's such a good idea to keep making improvements. The price range, the functionality of the firmware, the improving software... RED is making a lot of people who have spent LOTS of their lives learning various shooting techniques more or less redundant--because you are taking much of the mystery out of doing that work with the evolving RED system.

Is this right? Is this good for the economy? What will happen to California?

On the other hand, if California falls off into the ocean, save for the blockbusters the movie-making industry shouldn't skip a beat.

[Meryem Ersoz]

We just don't want anyone to be shocked when you fire it up.


More information would help me be less shocked when the time comes, hint hint....

[Dyslexicon]

Wow, so one of these days, I'll actually be able to afford a camera, and this will begin to matter to me. Man, getting started in this industry sucks.

But I guess it's better than getting started in any other.:shifty:

[David Mullen ASC]

I start shooting a small RED feature the day after Memorial Day -- will Build 16 be available by then? Anything wrong with Build 15? Should one ever change builds once you start shooting?

[Dyslexicon]

My guess is making a change during a shoot is pretty much always a bad idea. I wouldn't switch from my HVX to a PMW-EX1 in the middle of a shoot, and it sounds like there may be a difference (at least in gamma, etc...) of a similar magnitude? Maybe?

Maybe I'm talking out my #ss here.:huh:

[Finner]

I just wonder if it's such a good idea to keep making improvements. The price range, the functionality of the firmware, the improving software... RED is making a lot of people who have spent LOTS of their lives learning various shooting techniques more or less redundant--because you are taking much of the mystery out of doing that work with the evolving RED system.

Not even close. It is a very flawed opinion that believes owning a red will instantly give you skills that take years to learn. A camera is not a shortcut to success, experience and hard work is what gets you there.

[number6]

Not even close. It is a very flawed opinion that believes owning a red will instantly give you skills that take years to learn. A camera is not a shortcut to success, experience and hard work is what gets you there.

Finner, didn't we have this discussion about a year ago? I thought I convinced you I was right... guess you backslid.:tongue:

[Jannard]

I start shooting a small RED feature the day after Memorial Day -- will Build 16 be available by then? Anything wrong with Build 15? Should one ever change builds once you start shooting?

David... nothing wrong with Build 15.

Build 16 may not be completely stable by the time you begin shooting, but we'll see. Once it is, there is no downside to switching. Except about a ten minute discussion on what is different and how to expose given the differences. Actually, It took me about ten minutes... you'll probably get it in two. :-)

Jim

[Jeremy Neish]

I start shooting a small RED feature the day after Memorial Day -- will Build 16 be available by then? Anything wrong with Build 15? Should one ever change builds once you start shooting?

I know they hate (or more technically, can't accurately guess) dates, but I'm in the same boat as you. We start filming on a Hollywood picture (a sequel to a well known movie) on May 19, and a lot of it is shot night for night, so it sounds like we really could use this build. This is compounded by the DP being very nervous about switching builds part way through filming. So I'd hate to be stuck on build 15 through the whole shoot.

I REALLY hope we can use build 16 by the 19th... no pressure though. :)

[C.H.Haskell]

I have a feature production starting in JUNE as well, just prey I have a RED ONE delivered before then but this news helps keep me patient, thanks Jim...and good luck cranking them out.

[Jannard]

Everyone who saw the footage at NAB will tell you how good the images were shot on pre-15 builds. Soderbergh's movies were shot on pre-production builds and they got rave reviews... even the one shot 2:1 anamorphic (about 2K). Build 15 is not anything to be embarrassed about.

Build 16 is a complete structural change... hence the time it has taken to prepare it. We are doing years of DSP development in months, thanks to Graeme, Deanan and the rest of the team. Build 15 is the best of the original methodology. Build 16 is the beginning of the RED future... for RED ONE, Epic and Scarlet. Think of it like OS9 vs. OSX.

BTW, my pre-Alpha Build 16 boots in 60 seconds...

Jim

[Steve Sherrick]

Think of it like OS9 vs. OSX

Two very different beasts but with the same fundamental objectives. Cool.

[Tobias Straka]

Can't wait - sounds like the revolution has just been revolutionized...

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

When it comes to image quality I'd take Soderbergh's build 0 any day of the week. The fact that you've gone above and beyond, and are continuing to is...well, it's above and beyond.

Maybe it's just because compared to my previous "life" as an HVX filmmaker, RED ONE is an embarrassment of riches, but I think anyone complaining about RED's image quality or specs is really taking way too much for granted.

Look, I roll my eyes at the fanboying going on here, but ultimately there's no denying that RED is doing great things, and considering the price point they're unquestionably doing it for the customers -- present and future.

[Cloudchaser]

Like lighting, composition, operating, pulling focus, blocking & directing actors, production design, etc? No longer necessary because you have a new camera?



RED is making a lot of people who have spent LOTS of their lives learning various shooting techniques more or less redundant--because you are taking much of the mystery out of doing that work with the evolving RED system.

[Alexander Nikishin]

So how much do I pay to be a beta tester? :devil:

[Jannard]

So how much do I pay to be a beta tester? :devil:

Alpha testers are the short list... everyone gets to be a Beta tester if they are brave.

Jim

[Brook Willard]

What actually changes from an exposure perspective? I assume the goal is still the good 'ol ETTR mentality, yes? What sort of pre-curving are you guys doing to the footage? If it's a change in exposure mentality, it must have some sort of curve applied...?

[Sanjin Jukic]

I could smell that BETA 16 is coming to us, the BRAVE testers in a week or two...?!

[Martin Weiss]

pre-Alpha Build 16 boots in 60 seconds...

This is so going in the right direction!

I'm doing a lot of documentary work, where the ability to grab the moment is just impartial.

I guess there will never be an instant-on, but how fast a boot-up time can we eventually hope for?

...and thanks for all the hard work, dear Red team!

[Gunleik Groven]

Martin, you start to sound like a fanboy! :)

[Scott Webster]

Will the QT 16:9 fix be part of the Build 16 release?

[Cameron 'Cazbonie' Clark]

People are opposed to change, film to digital, Build 13 to 16. Change make people think they are getting older.
I don't care hold old I get, bring on Build 16, 17, 18, 19, 20.....................

[NormLi]

48-72fps overcrank in 4K?

[Jarred Land]

There are also alot of "little" things improved in build 16 that makes the RED ONE a much better user experience all together...

[Pawel Achtel]

There are also alot of "little" things improved in build 16 that makes the RED ONE a much better user experience all together...

Jarred, I have no idea how you can soundly sleep at night without constant fear that sooner or later someone is gonna kidnap you and torture as long as it takes to squeeze out at least some shreds of information about the "Sweet Sixteen" :love: before the release date.

Sooo...for the sake of your personal health, which we wish you sincerely, we look forward to hear "a little" about alot of "little things". :devil:

[Patrick Tresch]

...there is no downside to switching. Except about a ten minute discussion on what is different and how to expose given the differences. Actually, It took me about ten minutes... you'll probably get it in two. :-)

Jim

Could we have a little instight about these 10 minutes discussion?

As this would give us more details wich approach RED has taken for their future cameras. What are the majors signal monitoring changes?

Thanks.

Patrick

[Jarred Land]

Jarred, I have no idea how you can soundly sleep at night without constant fear that sooner or later someone is gonna kidnap you and torture as long as it takes to squeeze out at least some shreds of information about the "Sweet Sixteen" :love: before the release date.


heh heh.. we have hired a few extra bouncers at RED to ward off all the build 16 protesters and we now xray all our mail.

Its been waaayy too long.. and I apologize for the delay. Trust me though, last week it was worth the wait, and over the weekend it just got better.

Soon....

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Wow, so one of these days, I'll actually be able to afford a camera, and this will begin to matter to me. Man, getting started in this industry sucks.

But I guess it's better than getting started in any other.:shifty:


I believe you're absolutely right.

Filmmaking is the BEST job you could possibly have... on this small planet.

No matter what department you're in.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Jarred, I have no idea how you can soundly sleep at night without constant fear that sooner or later someone is gonna kidnap you and torture as long as it takes to squeeze out at least some shreds of information about the "Sweet Sixteen" :love: before the release date.

Sooo...for the sake of your personal health, which we wish you sincerely, we look forward to hear "a little" about alot of "little things". :devil:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=C9am9COGN04

HeHeHeh.

:wink:

[Michael Stanmore]

Hehe... Poor battle-weary Jim... :)

[Pawel Achtel]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C9am9COGN04

HeHeHeh.

:wink:

Yep, that's the one :love:

[Martin Weiss]

Martin, you start to sound like a fanboy! :)

Once I commit myself, there is no stopping me :turned: Just get me started on an iPhone, the Drobo or indeed the Red :spidy:

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Yep, that's the one :love:


I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it


Pawel, I saw this sig at imdb, it's great!

Are you the one that uses it there?

Whwrw's it from?

[Etienne Caron]

What you see on the monitor and how you make exposure decisions will change. All for the better, but it will be a change.
...
We all wish we had done this from the beginning, but you have to walk before you run.
...
We just don't want anyone to be shocked when you fire it up.

Jim

I think we all took the red pill over the blue one because we want to stay in Wonderland and we ask you to show us how deep the rabbit-hole goes...

[Mark L. Pederson]

There are also alot of "little" things improved in build 16 that makes the RED ONE a much better user experience all together...

I hear it plays ACDC's "For Those About To Rock" out the headphone jack while booting ...

[Patrick Tresch]

I hear it plays ACDC's "For Those About To Rock" out the headphone jack while booting ...

Thanks for laughing around Offhollywood... but just for those who are not in the happy few "early believers" could you give us some more concrete facts?... please.

For exemple: compatibility in RC/Scratch/FCP... between clips shot on build 15 (or earlier) VS with the new ones shot on build 16?

What will change our shooting methods? 10 minutes...

Any news (not leaks of course) would be greatly appreciated.

Patrick

[Visceral_IvaN]

I think we all took the red pill over the blue one because we want to stay in Wonderland and we ask you to show us how deep the rabbit-hole goes...

I have always been of the opinion that life would have been more interesting if Neo took BOTH the blue and red pills at the same time!

Then again, I have always been a lynch fan...

[Nick Wolf]

Maybe this will clearify some of the miss-conceptions that run rampant around here sometimes in the contradictory currents of hysteria-contra-euphoria...

I think what OffHollywood may have been alluding to was this:

Besides the PL and the BNCR, A new mount ( AC/DC ) will enable the barrel of a canon or any other large caliber artillery to easily be attatched to the front end of "The RED-16".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh9uGE4mm08

DogDay

P.S.
For some a Disconcerting item to note in the fine print IE: The balls of steel are not included and must be provided for by the constumer themselves.

[Anthony Gratl]

I have always been of the opinion that life would have been more interesting if Neo took BOTH the blue and red pills at the same time!

Then again, I have always been a lynch fan...

Well, as long as we're talking weirdness, Neo shoulda crushed them up and snorted them with Tony Montana's double nostril special.
Woulda been a nice leading tracking shot too, a red and blue line, ecu on the line and the tip of the stainless, like a train, tilt and pan up to neo's now contorted face as his head explodes...

[Steve Sanacore]

Seems like the longer I wait for my camera the better it's going to be - when it comes. Keep it up!

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Lord, I'm sooo ready:)

Emmanuel

[Jannard]

Will the QT 16:9 fix be part of the Build 16 release?

Yes...

Jim

[Steven-Marc C.]

Fantastic! Bring it on. I'm all for innovative ways of doing things when the results are as good as what you've given us so far.

[Alberto Caprioglio]

People are opposed to change, film to digital, Build 13 to 16. Change make people think they are getting older.


mmm...I don't believe so. And even if it's the case, I don't find it to be a problem: if something is/is not convenient for you, why shoud you run to embrace it?
(It's like to say people don't like wars/hurry/danger or something: it all sounds similarly reasonable, but ... there still has to be quite a few who do.)
nowadays we pass from revolution to revolution. If humans do not want this, they would all have a rest. It means there has necessarily to be someone pushing for some changes here and there.
I think somene is afraid, when he sees some dangers... and someone else is happy, because he sees new or better chances or better ways to do something that he believes he wants or he has to do. There is quite a lot of freedom, therefore you easily see a lot of movement.
I think it's too much a commonplace to state that "people do not like change".
Actuall, so often I see lots of people wanting something to be changed in almost every field. Especially from a progressist view of the world - not that it has anything to do with me - it seems that nothing is ever enough, or simply, "we need more", "we want more"... perhaps "because we can". That's fine.
(I think for me Epic will be enough, because since I decided 4k is enough to be really happy, then shoting 5k and delivering 4k will be defenetely perfect. And because I think build 16 will be a very good and finally satisfieing software. And because since Red One is extraordinary but still not perfect on every aspects, then Epic could reasonably be considered the perfect camera - what other camera could? - . Well, This is what I think)
Everywhere you can hear people saying - complaining? - that "people are afraid of change", but where? Those who actually "are supposed" to be afraid of something, don't say so.
Also consider that sometimes, somthing that was not convinient, becomes convinient, and those guys doing the old way are not "afraid" anymore.
Anyway... never mind. Just opinions...
I'm very curious to try 16. It can't be a bad thing. If it's better then build 15, It's must be excellent. I find build 15 quite good, just not completely stable yet.

[Steve Freebairn]

There are also alot of "little" things improved in build 16 that makes the RED ONE a much better user experience all together...

I really hope one of them is that when you change FPS, you can skip all the way to 120 with a push of a button.

Also, make ABC buttons be presets for a certain Shutter, FPS, and look (1 button would switch all 3, so 3 different presets could be had)

[Jarred Land]

Hey those are new things... :)

[Jim Hoffman]

16! So am I understanding you right that aside from all the wonderful fun you're introducing feature wise in 16 - you've also created a more solid foundation for bigger better stronger faster feature sets in the next builds?

[Bang WOW Bang]

May I have this feature in the build 16 as well ? WOW !

Stewart
HKG

[Jason Ing]

You may be surprised at how different it is from previous builds in how it looks...
Jim

Eventually, in the future, after all the tech issues and bugs are resolved...

...build numbers might just become what stock numbers are to film. :)

ASC Interviewer: "So... the buzz is "Oscar" for best cinematography. Can you tell us how you came up with the look? What did you shoot on?"

Famous DP: "Well, the flashback was shot on Build 324, but the Director wanted to shoot one of those old Red looks so we went way back and one of my DIT's actually found an old copy and reloaded Build 15..."

[Brook Willard]

So is the UI aqua-themed now? You guys should take another few weeks and get that going. :wink: :)

[Jaime Vallés]

So is the UI aqua-themed now? You guys should take another few weeks and get that going. :wink: :)
As long as it's not "comic sans", it's all good!

[Bob Torrance]

Famous DP: "Well, the flashback was shot on Build 324, but the Director wanted to shoot one of those old Red looks so we went way back and one of my DIT's actually found an old copy and reloaded Build 15..."

very funny.

[Jeff Brue]

Eventually, in the future, after all the tech issues and bugs are resolved...

...build numbers might just become what stock numbers are to film. :)

ASC Interviewer: "So... the buzz is "Oscar" for best cinematography. Can you tell us how you came up with the look? What did you shoot on?"

Famous DP: "Well, the flashback was shot on Build 324, but the Director wanted to shoot one of those old Red looks so we went way back and one of my DIT's actually found an old copy and reloaded Build 15..."

There's more truth to that statement than I'd like to admit. I've been playing with a lot of bayer sensors lately D21, Red's various builds, our Medula, Phantom. In the DI bay I've noticed that each has a different feel on the wheels, and each has a different tonality. Can't say how many times we've had to redesign our curves for different camera builds. Also to note each one has a very different interaction with Film Luts, from artifacts that have no right to be there, to wonderful skin tones that could not have been produced any other way.

The thing I'm really looking forward to is the next idea in color correction in regards to bayer sensors, with an artistic control affecting the matrix. I've been able to with Iridas and Phantom material tie in a set of tangents to their bayer matrix parameters, and the results are so cool.

This combined with motion adaptive noise reduction on raw bayer data, and you can start to see the future get really exciting, not just 20 film stocks, thousands.

[Ricardo Mehedff]

can't wait for sweet sixteen!!

[Sanjin Jukic]

So is the UI aqua-themed now? You guys should take another few weeks and get that going. :wink: :)

There is no more UI aqua style in Apple, there is more silver like a Safari look or dark grey like a Shake post apps.

[donatello b]

build 16 could cause another order surge from those that passed when their number was up .. i passed on 1051 and i know of another 7 camera's that are waiting for build sweet 16 ... till then i'll collect a little interest $

[Rick Darge]

Build 16 sounds like a SCAM

[Bing Bailey]

Build 16 sounds like a SCAM

blasphemy, take the heretic , lobbest thy holy hand grenade at thee

[C.H.Haskell]

Ok RED you have a lot of hype to live up to with this build...good thing you specialize in meeting the hype demand. Best of luck.

Now Bring home 1781 so I can become a beta tester!

[Antoine Fabi]

Ah you...

THANKS !!!!

[Gian Joon]

I had decided not to come back to this forum till the time 1848 lands home. But, now I have to back everyday.

Well Done RED TEAM!

[laguun]

feature request deleted :) was replacing comic sans with another font to improve image quality on the cameras lcd - which already happened and went unnoticed here :)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4901&page=4&highlight=comic+sans

[Rick Darge]

Jim,

Once we enter the build16 dimension, can we ever jump backwards to Build 13-15? I'm ready to drink the koolaid whenever you're ready to serve

[Evin Grant]

I'm pretty sure he said you cannot revert.

[Patrick Tresch]

I'm pretty sure he said you cannot revert.

???

Buid are software... Isn'it like going back from QT 7.4 to QT 7.3?:ohmy:

I really don't know how build are installed/urpgraded/removed... But I can't imagine why you couldn't revert to an older version?

Pat

[Visceral_IvaN]

???

Buid are software... Isn'it like going back from QT 7.4 to QT 7.3?:ohmy:

I really don't know how build are installed/urpgraded/removed... But I can't imagine why you couldn't revert to an older version?

Pat

Because the universe is a mysterious place. :)

[Alexander Nikishin]

Alpha testers are the short list... everyone gets to be a Beta tester if they are brave.

Jim

In that case........

How much dough should I throw your way to be an alpha tester? :greedy:

[DNomer]

I think there are a few billion people who have not yet figured out that RedUser.net is a newly-discovered planet where the natives are kinda restless, and some of them are pretty tripped out, and when it comes to their beloved 'sweet sixteen', well, restless doesn't quite describe it. :greedy: And while this is a forum like no other, I challenge you one and all: WHAT will you create? I wanna see some ART!!

dn

[Stephen Pruitt]

I'm trying to wait for Build 16 to make my art!

We start shooting our feature film in TWO WEEKS! Where is our beta of Build 16???? We REALLY need this build for the film for the following reasons:

1. We want the lowest noise footage available. We'll be shooting in very dim early morning and late night light for the first week of the shoot.

2. We don't want our footage to "not match."

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Jim. . . get me a beta of Build 16.

Stephen

[Simon Valderrama]

We start shooting our feature film in TWO WEEKS! Where is our beta of Build 16????

IMHO, dunno if it's a good idea to shoot your feature in two weeks with a beta build so revolutionary, doesn't seem wise, for two reasons:
- there will be bugs and problems like any other beta software or like any other 1.0 software (remember the OS9/OSX comparison).
- as Jim noted, we'll need some time to get used to the new revolution, we'll have to learn many things from scratch.

it's two weeks, not a month! :)

[Steve Sherrick]

Stephen, I agree with Valde. It's cutting it too close to shoot a feature with build 16 unless you really want to live on the edge. Build 15 should work out just fine. Have you been having problems with your low light footage tests? Have you done a full color grading pass on the tests? If so, are you finding that the footage doesn't cut it? What lenses are you using and what are you doing for lighting?

[cinemano]

Will Build 16 Reject my CF Cards? (i use Lexar Professional UDMA 300X 8 GB).. They work perfectly fine at all speeds and all resolutions right now with all builds.. So will hold the update until i know i wont have to throw them out with build 16 :)

[Stuart English]

Will Build 16 Reject my CF Cards? (i use Lexar Professional UDMA 300X 8 GB).. They work perfectly fine at all speeds and all resolutions right now with all builds.

If they work with 15 they will work with 16... no change there.

[Jason Sinclair]

...and god said unto Jim, take thy build 16 and bring it unto the people and the people were glad...

http://i29.tinypic.com/v8phc8.jpg

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

...and god said unto Jim, take thy build 16 and bring it unto the people and the people were glad...

http://i29.tinypic.com/v8phc8.jpg

Lol.

Told'ya.

[Randy]

amazing!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

lol at Jannard's teeth being the whitest point in that picture.

[Mark L. Pederson]

For what it's worth folks ... BUILD 17 is going to be the one that rocks my world the hardest.

You know, after Build 16 is hard-core, real-world tested with user feedback. That being said ... I am counting the seconds until 16!

[Bing Bailey]

god mark you sure know how to stoke the flames and you aren't even on the RED Team :) LOL

[Mark L. Pederson]

god mark you sure know how to stoke the flames and you aren't even on the RED Team :) LOL

I'm on the RED Team weather they like it or not!

I'm not going anywhere anytime soon -

(typing from a Red camera checkout at CSC for the feature film Mystery Gang - shooting 4K 16x9 entirely on a Hot Gears remote head - six weeks in NH)

[Kenn Christenson]

I'm on the RED Team weather they like it or not!

I'm not going anywhere anytime soon -

(typing from a Red camera checkout at CSC for the feature film Mystery Gang - shooting 4K 16x9 entirely on a Hot Gears remote head - six weeks in NH)

How are the Hot Gears working out for you? My old roommate from film school makes those puppies. Got to see where he makes the equipment. Pretty cool!

[Mark L. Pederson]

How are the Hot Gears working out for you? My old roommate from film school makes those puppies. Got to see where he makes the equipment. Pretty cool!
Very cool!

We shall see - today is the checkout - but they are shooting 30 days on the Hot Gears with an Optimo 17-80 - (they have a few primes as well)

[Kenn Christenson]

Nothing like having some cool "toys" to play with! Good luck!

[I Bloom]

???

Buid are software... Isn'it like going back from QT 7.4 to QT 7.3?:ohmy:

I really don't know how build are installed/urpgraded/removed... But I can't imagine why you couldn't revert to an older version?

Pat

It's firmware. Which is a gray area between software and hardware. So elements that are manipulated when 16 is loaded might not be properly reset when you reload 15.

IBloom

[Bob England]

BTW, my pre-Alpha Build 16 boots in 60 seconds...

Hopefully, Scarlet will boot in a fraction of that time. Smaller means faster, right?

[Joshua Provost]

When Build 16 is released, will we be treated to some head-to-head comparison shots with Build 15/Build 16?

[Joel Kaye]

When Build 16 is released, will we be treated to some head-to-head comparison shots with Build 15/Build 16?

I was just thinking they could do this right now to show us what the improvements are. I was looking at some stuff I shot last week and was wondering what in the hell they could do to make it look better.

My guess is 16 helps out trouble shots... like low light, underexposure, tungsten performance. If there's a way to reduce the sensitivity of the chip when outside so less ND is required that would be amazingly helpful. Not sure that's technically even possible though. Looks like 16x9 will finally get ironed out. Perhaps they could speed up the debayer.

Maybe there are other issues I'm not aware of.

[Stephen Pruitt]

Yeah, Joelnet. . . like everything I need that new build 16 for. . . trouble shots.

:-(

Stephen

[Zakaree Sandberg]

My guess is 16 helps out trouble shots... like low light, underexposure, tungsten performance

id hope so on all of those..
and is the IR situation a sensor thing or a software thing.. or both?

[Evin Grant]

It's a silicone thing, much easier to fix with lens filters than CC or software.

[Anders Holck]

It's a silicone thing, much easier to fix with lens filters than CC or software.

Filling things with silicone might be popular in vegas, but I believe chips are usually made of sillicon :-)

[NormLi]

Will build 16 come out with a surprise BANG or be announced so we can expect it?? :)

[Jason Sinclair]

Speculation time: Some kind of system both on and off camera software driven that gives us access to viewing full dynamic range before going to a suite. We will probably need to adjust exposure towards the highlights. This would probably mean some kind of software manipulation of taking all the data from low asa and highest possible asa and the mixing them together so we get as much detail from the highlights as possible while finding the noise floor in the shadows.. Probably through redcine.

[Michael Brennan]

The reason I wasn't an early RED adopter was not wishing to be involved with a beta camera...that I had to pay for :)

I was against RED distributing 2000 so called beta cameras!
None the less it will be impressive to see so many cameras upgraded.

Hats off to all the early adopters that have paid and paved the way for build 16!

To the Digital Gods, please make it stable.


Mike Brennan

[Steve Sherrick]

mike, your missing out. It's great being in early because we can learn how to shoot with it and a lot of people are making money with it. But I understand your point.

[percy fung]

I was adjust my 2 REDs will be in this Saturday.
Will they be installed under Build 15...


Percy
Hong Kong

[Bang WOW Bang]

I was adjust my 2 REDs will be in this Saturday.
Will they be installed under Build 15...


Percy
Hong Kong

We have done the latitude tests among all parties ( Salon Films / Video Film / REDHKSC / WOW Digitainment ) in HKG and the r3d files were graded in our SCRATCH ( Pre-Post ) + Tangen Panels for all the RED one users to know about the performance of the current latest build 15 v.2.2.5

Check it out more pictures here at http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10471

My Best ,
Stewart
Founder
REDHKSC

[Damien Molineaux]

I was adjust my 2 REDs will be in this Saturday.
Will they be installed under Build 15...


Percy
Hong Kong

As has been mentioned by Red Team members, shipping cameras are always sent out with the current release build, which is 15 presently.

Cheers,
Damien

[Shawn Bannon]

what is the status on those golden few playing with build 16? and are we talking the possibility of Build 16 by sometime next week?

[Bang WOW Bang]

As has been mentioned by Red Team members, shipping cameras are always sent out with the current release build, which is 15 presently.

Cheers,
Damien

Anyone has brave to try Build 15 v2.2.5 and It was crash twice in yesterday !!!

OK More details as follows:

I shot 4K 16:9 @24FPS at 36 REDCODE on RED Drives.

Shutter was 1/48

ASA 320 and 500.

Problems:

When I pan a little bit fast on the above settings on set on the RED one s/n 768 and the " ERRORs " pop up on the RED LCD screen then It was forzen !!!


May I ask ?

Stuart , Graeme or Mr. Jannard, a Founder @RED.com to explain me WHY ?

It was a fact that I shot in yesterday with my RED one 768 in HKG, and please ask if you need my Files to test my R3D files with the build 15 v.2.25

My Best .-

STEWART CHONG
CEO
WOW Holdings

Founder
REDHKSC
HKG - CHINA

[Hrvoje Simic]

The thing I'm really looking forward to is the next idea in color correction in regards to bayer sensors, with an artistic control affecting the matrix. I've been able to with Iridas and Phantom material tie in a set of tangents to their bayer matrix parameters, and the results are so cool.

This combined with motion adaptive noise reduction on raw bayer data, and you can start to see the future get really exciting, not just 20 film stocks, thousands.

Interesting stuff, Jeff. Wonder what Red guys think about that.

[Russ Fill]

4:4:4????? That would squawsh a problem Ive had selling my agency on green screen work with RED.

[Clint Johnson]

How about the "Gregg Toland" setting where it is just luminance value for each of the R, G and B photosight giving us some sweeeeeeeettttttt black and white.

I would use it but I'm a bit... odd.

[Gunleik Groven]

4:4:4????? That would squawsh a problem Ive had selling my agency on green screen work with RED.

Do a test...

I cannot see how you could NOT sell a RED greenscreen gig to your agency, if everything is lit good.

[Bang WOW Bang]

Ha Ha !

No Build 15 NO Build 16.....

NO REPLY to me on build 15 v2.25 means No Good news On Build 16

I keep my fingers crossed to all CHINESE RED buyers.

Cheers,

Stewart
HKG



Anyone has brave to try Build 15 v2.2.5 and It was crash twice in yesterday !!!

OK More details as follows:

I shot 4K 16:9 @24FPS at 36 REDCODE on RED Drives.

Shutter was 1/48

ASA 320 and 500.

Problems:

When I pan a little bit fast on the above settings on set on the RED one s/n 768 and the " ERRORs " pop up on the RED LCD screen then It was forzen !!!


May I ask ?

Stuart , Graeme or Mr. Jannard, a Founder @RED.com to explain me WHY ?

It was a fact that I shot in yesterday with my RED one 768 in HKG, and please ask if you need my Files to test my R3D files with the build 15 v.2.25

My Best .-

STEWART CHONG
CEO
WOW Holdings

Founder
REDHKSC
HKG - CHINA

[Charlie Anderson]

Is 16 going to address a few bugs and performance issues that are present? like the force reel bug and being able to disable the rear record button if we need to? Right now we're using a modified water bottle cap to prevent it from being accidentally hit :) I should take a picture of it, it's quite funny

[Stephen Pruitt]

The green screen bugaboo is just crazy. I took my RED (#791) with Build 15 into MK12 here in Kansas City. They really put it to the test, on frizzy hair and, incredibly, even sand running through fingers.

The bottom line was very clear: The RED footage looked utterly amazing. There is no way that the RED won't be a workhorse for chroma keys now and into the future.

Stephen

[Mark Toia]

The green screen bugaboo is just crazy. I took my RED (#791) with Build 15 into MK12 here in Kansas City. They really put it to the test, on frizzy hair and, incredibly, even sand running through fingers.

The bottom line was very clear: The RED footage looked utterly amazing. There is no way that the RED won't be a workhorse for chroma keys now and into the future.

Stephen


Totally Agree!

Our inferno Artist said last week on a job that we just finsished that he has never ever seen a key as clean in his life. He's been composting for 15 years using everything from flints throught to inferno.

[Luis Otero]

Is 16 going to address a few bugs and performance issues that are present? like the force reel bug and being able to disable the rear record button if we need to? Right now we're using a modified water bottle cap to prevent it from being accidentally hit :) I should take a picture of it, it's quite funny
Is the cap you are using red?

[Charlie Anderson]

Charlie, I would love to see that! I was thinking along the same lines.

Congrats on your Red and welcome to Red User with your first post.

Thanks! It's technically not my red, but I'm working as a tech...or at least trying to haha!

I'll get a snapshot of it with my phone today at break and post a pic of it, it's quite humorous...and no it's not red :(

[androbot2084]

looking forward to build 16

[Charlie Anderson]

http://stratatekstudios.com/Files/RED/GhettoRED.jpg

[Mike Prevette]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

I did something very similar yesterday. I cut a bottle top up to put a deep ring around the giant unmarked power button. I've now upgraded to a large o-ring.

[Charlie Anderson]

yep it gets the job done! it would be great to be able to disable that record button as our DP is using an ez-rig and holds the camera with arms slung behind the camera, so that's why we use that so he doesn't accidentally bump the record button.

[Bang WOW Bang]

Jim,

have you fixed the date to release Build 16 v X.X.X

Time wait for no man, and may I honest to say to you that
I am runnng out of passion to the build 15 v.2.2.5

I did Crash twice on my RED drives ......

Change some good DSPs ASAP.

Sorry that I got a " RED Nerve " to tell you the Turth an I have no Hairs on my CHEST.

Stewart

[Shawn Bannon]

ANY NEWS on BUILD 16? some people are testing it right now correct? Is there a guesstimate on when we might be able to test it out? Are we talking sooner or later?

[Brook Willard]

yep it gets the job done! it would be great to be able to disable that record button as our DP is using an ez-rig and holds the camera with arms slung behind the camera, so that's why we use that so he doesn't accidentally bump the record button.

Yeah, it's a bummer that the interface is on the back of the camera. That space gets used a lot.

I've been brainstorming an accessory solution for it, we'll see if I can get it together.

[cinemano]

Just one thing i need to understand.. both epic AND scarlet will have less compression than the RED? would it be fair to ask build 16 to bring more bitrate than 35 at this point? Since scarlet will have 100 MB/S

[Obin Olson]

best keys I have ever seen pulled with red footage.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

It is assumed that the current internal processors, FPGAs, buses, sensor clock, etc are unable to manage 100MB/sec compressed to RedCode RAW. It is further assumed that improvements in the near term are primarily algorithms, code optimizations and the like. Various statements by RedTeam members support this view. That said, only the RedTeam knows for sure.

[Bing Bailey]

hopefully we'll know something soon. NAB is a distant memory. build 16 must be quite difficult to assemble now with so much code and moving pieces. hopefully they kept the code as modular as possible. it really sounds like they took it apart completely and rebuilt it ground up

[haophat]

thats all great and back slapping happy good to hear. but as a straight forward user, can you tell me what i will be expecting in build 16? what am i getting ? and how will it affect me as a end user and shooter?
I just dont want to download it and end up with some new bells and whistels that i dont need or want.
and what are we talking about in new functionality. will i have to wait to upgrage untill I have fully read though the manual for 16 I dont wan tto end up not knowing how to fix something that I knew how to in build 15

Thank you

[Peter McCully]

thats all great and back slapping happy good to hear. but as a straight forward user, can you tell me what i will be expecting in build 16? what am i getting ? and how will it affect me as a end user and shooter?
I just dont want to download it and end up with some new bells and whistels that i dont need or want.
and what are we talking about in new functionality. will i have to wait to upgrage untill I have fully read though the manual for 16 I dont wan tto end up not knowing how to fix something that I knew how to in build 15

Thank you

Haophat, it sounds like you are pretty fearful of change. If so, why get into Red in the first place?
Anyway, you can always just keep build 15 going.

[haophat]

Haophat, it sounds like you are pretty fearful of change. If so, why get into Red in the first place?
Anyway, you can always just keep build 15 going.

Its not that i am fearful of change afterall I bought into a red, its just with the Jobs I do, there is no time for wasted time and not knowing how to adjust your camera or find a function you knew where it was but now has changed, and this forces you to run to a manual, is just not acceptable.

So I am just trying to figure out what's comming next so I can anticipate the change and be ready for what it may do.