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Chris Parker
05-08-2008, 08:44 AM
Just wondering when Scratch plans to build auto audio sync into the Scratch CINE software?

Also, will the audio play out of the RedBOXX with ScratchCINE?

Adam Glick
05-10-2008, 08:46 AM
Right now, there are no options for working with r3d embedded audio outside of FCP.

Hopefully, things will change in the near future as RED opens up support for r3d on other platforms.

Adam
BOXXlabs

Greg Huson
05-10-2008, 04:18 PM
Right now, there are no options for working with r3d embedded audio outside of FCP.

Hopefully, things will change in the near future as RED opens up support for r3d on other platforms.

Adam
BOXXlabs

Wait. So you're saying scratch-cine DOESN'T do embedded audio on the HDSDI 'real time' output? That's a serious bummer. It hadn't even occurred to me that was a possibility. Scratch-cine is entirely MOS? Or do I misunderstand this thread?

Mark L. Pederson
05-10-2008, 05:33 PM
Yes, lack of RT audio from R3D in RT in Scratch / ScratchCine is a SHOW-STOPPER in terms of a killer full quality 2K/HD dailies solution.

Right now - we are actually less than 1/2 RT just becuase of the lack of audio support.

I am a wee bit concerend that we haven't seen a CL for extracting PCM audio yet - makes me wonder how they recorded the audio samples in the R3D. But alas, QT is extracting with little effort of the MAC side - so it can't be that wacky. I am a bit concerned that decoding in 2K full really pushed the limits on the overclocked CPUs - so - extracting audio on the fly - clip by clip makes we nerveous -

While I am sure :unsure: that Assimilate and Team Red have an elagant solution just around the corner - here's my concept of how to cross the finish line faster, with less code - (bearing in mind that I have no clue how the audio samples are laid down in the R3D and no clue what is being done behind closed doors at RED - and also bearing in mind that I am just ... nuts)

Here it goes -

Scratch already supprts BWF - but it does this with ONE file for the construct (timeline) - NOT per clip.

So, first step - (on a MAC) use automator (or a script) to batch parse a root folder of RDC's and take one of the QT proxies reference files and convert via compressor to BWF and write that BWF into each RDC. This will carry the meta data (TC) in the BWF.

Now we have a seaparte audio file with matching TC in each RDC folder. The way life should be anyway!!

Now, we need Assimilate to add a "button" that does a "PROCESS CONSTRUCT AUDIO" - and that goes through the construct - clip by clip, grabs the BWF for each one and uses the TC from the clips in and out point in the construct to CREATE A NEW SINGLE BWF FOR THE CONSTRUCT.

Then you can play out in RT - from a single BWF for the construct.

If you make changes to the construct - you would just need to "PROCESS CONSTRUCT AUDIO" again.

Just thinking out loud ....

M Most
05-10-2008, 08:16 PM
Then you can play out in RT - from a single BWF for the construct.

If you make changes to the construct - you would just need to "PROCESS CONSTRUCT AUDIO" again.


If you want to use a "single WAV file" approach, there is a solution (albeit rather inelegant) to this now. You just need to have a Mac conveniently available near the Scratch workstation (on the same network or on a common SAN would work).

Arrange your construct however you want. Export an EDL and import that EDL into Final Cut. In theory (I haven't tried this on a full scale project, but I just tested it and it should work), you should be able to relink the original camera proxies to the EDL and establish a timeline that matches that in Scratch (all of the source reel numbers and time codes will be the same, since they're from the same metadata). Export the audio to one WAV file and bring that into Scratch. Of course, because Apple's WAV files always seem a bit different than Microsoft's WAV files (which is what Scratch wants) you might have to reprocess the file using something like Audacity (or even Soundtrack Pro) to make it compatible. If your friend Ian is interested, it could probably be done via XML, since I believe Scratch supports all of the same tags as Redcine.

Personally, I rather prefer the idea of using a Fostex DV40 to chase the timecodes coming from the record deck as it's fewer steps and doesn't require any timeline roundtripping. It also instantly responds to any construct restructuring.

Blair S. Paulsen
05-12-2008, 09:34 AM
Snip.
Personally, I rather prefer the idea of using a Fostex DV40 to chase the timecodes coming from the record deck as it's fewer steps and doesn't require any timeline roundtripping. It also instantly responds to any construct restructuring.

Mike - what record deck are you referring to? Perhaps I am an unusual case, but I am data workflow only until final layoff of deliverables.

I assume the lack of an in house SR deck sends me back to your first suggestion that I feed the Scratch construct EDL back to FCP to build a camera proxy sourced .wav to bring back to Scratch. You mentioned that Soundtrack Pro might allow me to re-save the .wav file in a more PC friendly form - any further tips on this step would be much appreciated. Yes you may call me lazy, but if you have done this and know where the gotchas are I'd be much obliged, I'll even buy you a drink the next time I see you. Cheers-

Blair S. Paulsen
05-12-2008, 09:38 AM
Sure would love to have proper audio support for RedCode files in Scratch. Not to be indelicate, but, what's the hold up?

M Most
05-12-2008, 10:57 AM
Mike - what record deck are you referring to? Perhaps I am an unusual case, but I am data workflow only until final layoff of deliverables.

I assume the lack of an in house SR deck sends me back to your first suggestion that I feed the Scratch construct EDL back to FCP to build a camera proxy sourced .wav to bring back to Scratch. You mentioned that Soundtrack Pro might allow me to re-save the .wav file in a more PC friendly form - any further tips on this step would be much appreciated. Yes you may call me lazy, but if you have done this and know where the gotchas are I'd be much obliged, I'll even buy you a drink the next time I see you. Cheers-

I don't know how much I can say about Assimilate's playout extension as the version I have is still beta (at least I think it is), so hopefully I'm not going to incur the wrath of Lucas, Jeff, and the others by saying that basically, Assimilate has come up with a way to force the record deck (any Sony VTR, or so I'm told) to use source time code without actually sending it an audio or video based time code feed. So if you're using this, the time code out of the record deck during playout will be the timecode from the original R3d file, thus matching the sound, provided the sound was either recorded on the camera, or double system with the camera's time code jammed to the sound. If you record double system (and in my world, almost everything is done double system) to a digital recorder, you usually mirror to a DVD Ram disk, so your sound is already available in a form acceptable to a DV40. If you're using sound from the camera, it's a bit more work, because you'll have to take the sound from the camera via QT, convert those files to WAV, and burn them to a DVD.

As for the Windows friendly WAV's, I've found that doing a WAV export in Final Cut produces a WAV file that Scratch just doesn't like. As I recall, exporting to WAV from Soundtrack Pro seems to produce a MS compatible WAV - but I'm going on memory here. I can tell you that opening either the FCP WAV or an AIFF file in Audacity, then exporting it to WAV using Audacity's export function absolutely works, regardless of whether you're on a Mac or a PC. And since Audacity is free, I would recommend using it for this purpose.

Drink not required. But I'll try to find you when I'm back in LA for Cinegear anyway. ;-)

Bang WOW Bang
05-16-2008, 06:10 AM
Right now, there are no options for working with r3d embedded audio outside of FCP.

Hopefully, things will change in the near future as RED opens up support for r3d on other platforms.

Adam
BOXXlabs

ADam,

PM me more and I am the 1st Full Scratch " Finsishing " + Tangen CP-200 a set of four panels users in HKG.

I awaiting for your help and support on 2K R3D full res playback as well.

REDBOX can do something APPLE and HP can't do for RED files.

Cheers,

Stewart
CEO
WOW