Jon Schellenger
05-15-2008, 02:28 PM
Okay guys,
I know this has been brought up and I have done my share of research on the forum. I would be interested to hear what everyone is doing on this- and curious to get David Mullen's input.
So here is the deal-
I recently shot the first week of our indie film about the WWII submarine. We were in very tight rooms on board the sub, so there was not much room to move about. We wanted to use as many practicals on the sub as possible. With that in mind, we really could only use the actual fixtures that were already rigged up on the sub. Mostly they were 40 watt bulbs. We asked about changing those out to get something brighter, however, they said the fixtures and wiring on the sub is the original stuff. They said it could be dangerous to change the bulbs out. We certainly did not have the budget to pull them out and replace all wiring.
David and all - if you don't mind, take a look at the post I placed recently in the field testing / footage area. It is still on the first page, and there are several frames that I posted up from our sub movie. For the most part, I really had a pretty good grip on our focus. We did have some amazing lenses. We rented some Arri Ultra Primes - a 14mm, 24mm, 28mm, 32mm, 85mm, and a 135mm. We used the 32mm and the 85mm the most. We shot at 4K, 2.1, 23.98, 2.35, 320 ISO.
I must admit that most of my experience has been with prosumer and broadcast cameras. We all know how the Depth of field is on those. I have used the Red Rock Micro to help me get some good shallow depth of field before. I love shallow depth of field- but holly cow! The 35mm DOF takes some work to get used to.
I really wanted to keep a very low noise level because I knew that I was going to be watching all the highlights and that I knew I was going to be pulling stuff from the shadows. While doing some tests, we found out it worked really well. You really can dig hard into the shadows to find information just as advertised. I just did not want a lot of grain from digging deep into the shadows- so I elected to shoot with the cleanest image I could get. 320 ISO.
With the practicals on the sub, we helped bump up the fill by using a few arri 650s along with some 150s, and 300s. We had placed some spun on them along with some gels for the most part.
Our stops were between 1.9 - 4.0 but for the most part we sat at 2.0 - 2.8. Our room for movement on the actors was amazingly tight. I already new it was going to be a ball buster, but I just had no experience with it. For the most part we nailed it. Even on some decent moving shots, we set the FF4 with good marks and everyone nailed their marks. Again, for the most part, the actors did not have all that much movement. The small amount of movement was fairly controllable to follow with the FF4. But take an example of trying to shoot hand held over the shoulder and I have to follow someone out of a room. That was damn near impossible to do. I guess by changing the ISO I can get the lens closed down a good bit- however, I think the noise would be so intense that it would not match all the clean tripod shots. Is that the case?
I had major respect for that shot in Good Fellows where the stedicam shot followed them all the way from the car, through the kitchen of the Copa, and to their seats. Damn. Now I have major major respect! : )
So here are some questions for you guys- Please don't think I am dumb, I just want to learn how it is really done on the big motion picture sets. I am very, very familiar with still photography and film stocks. I read American Cinematography so I have a good basic idea of what is done, but I can't recall them ever going deep into how to help control Shallow Depth of Field from being too hard to control.
1. On most motion pictures, don't they pretty much try to shoot for an average F-stop goal for most of the picture? I know scenes change, but isn't there a basic goal they try to achieve?
2. If so, what is the stop usually? The sweet spot of the lens? Or just the look they are trying to achieve?
3. During most interior scenes, do they light the living hell out of it? With insanely bright lights? This way they can keep the film stock speed slow so they can have less grain if that is their goal? Or do they simply go with a faster ISO?
4. For the Red Camera, what is everyone shooting for mostly as far as F stops and ISO? If you want a good clean image, with very little noise, what are you guys doing for interior scenes that require several feet of a focal point? Lighting it with a zillion watts? Or are you guys simply going up on the ISO?
5. I have done much research on the ISO and have seen many examples posted here on line. Most were stills, some were from actual shoots. So what do you guys think is a good indoor ISO to shoot for that still has a good low noise ratio?
6. Last question- should I get a life and quit my day job and go to film school? He he.. (Don't answer that!!!!) But- here is the real question- is there a good place to find information on 35MM DOF and how to deal with it reasonably?
7. Oh, one more last question- What the heck is everyone else doing about DOF with the RED?
Thank you for helping me on this. I look forward to hearing back from you guys.
I know this has been brought up and I have done my share of research on the forum. I would be interested to hear what everyone is doing on this- and curious to get David Mullen's input.
So here is the deal-
I recently shot the first week of our indie film about the WWII submarine. We were in very tight rooms on board the sub, so there was not much room to move about. We wanted to use as many practicals on the sub as possible. With that in mind, we really could only use the actual fixtures that were already rigged up on the sub. Mostly they were 40 watt bulbs. We asked about changing those out to get something brighter, however, they said the fixtures and wiring on the sub is the original stuff. They said it could be dangerous to change the bulbs out. We certainly did not have the budget to pull them out and replace all wiring.
David and all - if you don't mind, take a look at the post I placed recently in the field testing / footage area. It is still on the first page, and there are several frames that I posted up from our sub movie. For the most part, I really had a pretty good grip on our focus. We did have some amazing lenses. We rented some Arri Ultra Primes - a 14mm, 24mm, 28mm, 32mm, 85mm, and a 135mm. We used the 32mm and the 85mm the most. We shot at 4K, 2.1, 23.98, 2.35, 320 ISO.
I must admit that most of my experience has been with prosumer and broadcast cameras. We all know how the Depth of field is on those. I have used the Red Rock Micro to help me get some good shallow depth of field before. I love shallow depth of field- but holly cow! The 35mm DOF takes some work to get used to.
I really wanted to keep a very low noise level because I knew that I was going to be watching all the highlights and that I knew I was going to be pulling stuff from the shadows. While doing some tests, we found out it worked really well. You really can dig hard into the shadows to find information just as advertised. I just did not want a lot of grain from digging deep into the shadows- so I elected to shoot with the cleanest image I could get. 320 ISO.
With the practicals on the sub, we helped bump up the fill by using a few arri 650s along with some 150s, and 300s. We had placed some spun on them along with some gels for the most part.
Our stops were between 1.9 - 4.0 but for the most part we sat at 2.0 - 2.8. Our room for movement on the actors was amazingly tight. I already new it was going to be a ball buster, but I just had no experience with it. For the most part we nailed it. Even on some decent moving shots, we set the FF4 with good marks and everyone nailed their marks. Again, for the most part, the actors did not have all that much movement. The small amount of movement was fairly controllable to follow with the FF4. But take an example of trying to shoot hand held over the shoulder and I have to follow someone out of a room. That was damn near impossible to do. I guess by changing the ISO I can get the lens closed down a good bit- however, I think the noise would be so intense that it would not match all the clean tripod shots. Is that the case?
I had major respect for that shot in Good Fellows where the stedicam shot followed them all the way from the car, through the kitchen of the Copa, and to their seats. Damn. Now I have major major respect! : )
So here are some questions for you guys- Please don't think I am dumb, I just want to learn how it is really done on the big motion picture sets. I am very, very familiar with still photography and film stocks. I read American Cinematography so I have a good basic idea of what is done, but I can't recall them ever going deep into how to help control Shallow Depth of Field from being too hard to control.
1. On most motion pictures, don't they pretty much try to shoot for an average F-stop goal for most of the picture? I know scenes change, but isn't there a basic goal they try to achieve?
2. If so, what is the stop usually? The sweet spot of the lens? Or just the look they are trying to achieve?
3. During most interior scenes, do they light the living hell out of it? With insanely bright lights? This way they can keep the film stock speed slow so they can have less grain if that is their goal? Or do they simply go with a faster ISO?
4. For the Red Camera, what is everyone shooting for mostly as far as F stops and ISO? If you want a good clean image, with very little noise, what are you guys doing for interior scenes that require several feet of a focal point? Lighting it with a zillion watts? Or are you guys simply going up on the ISO?
5. I have done much research on the ISO and have seen many examples posted here on line. Most were stills, some were from actual shoots. So what do you guys think is a good indoor ISO to shoot for that still has a good low noise ratio?
6. Last question- should I get a life and quit my day job and go to film school? He he.. (Don't answer that!!!!) But- here is the real question- is there a good place to find information on 35MM DOF and how to deal with it reasonably?
7. Oh, one more last question- What the heck is everyone else doing about DOF with the RED?
Thank you for helping me on this. I look forward to hearing back from you guys.