Red Cage Alternatives?

[Mark B.]

The Red Cage and other cage framework accessories are very much out of my desired spending range. Are there any cheaper alternatives that currently exist and would allow nearly the same functionality? Obviously if the alternative is made of an alloy that would be best, but I'd be happy with a tough injection-molded plastic equivalent.

[Jannard]

Got a machine shop?

Jim

[Brook Willard]

$17,500 camera, $5,000 lens, $3,000 viewfinder, $1,000 recording system... homemade plastic support equipment?

[M Olsen]

The Red Cage and other cage framework accessories are very much out of my desired spending range. Are there any cheaper alternatives that currently exist and would allow nearly the same functionality? Obviously if the alternative is made of an alloy that would be best, but I'd be happy with a tough injection-molded plastic equivalent.

Fish.. or cut bait !

[Mardi_Gras]

The Red Cage and other cage framework accessories are very much out of my desired spending range. Are there any cheaper alternatives that currently exist and would allow nearly the same functionality? Obviously if the alternative is made of an alloy that would be best, but I'd be happy with a tough injection-molded plastic equivalent.

Hmmm... that's a tough one. But hold up, let me see... don't see anything, sorry.

[Tony Lorentzen]

Sometimes I see pictures of people put really (poorly) homemade stuff on their $6000 cameras and I laugh so hard I almost fall off my chair. I'd sure like to see more of that with the RED. Should be amusing.

The funny thing is that making stuff look really pro doesn't require that much skill. You'll be amazed at what a good machinist can make for you - without it having to cost too much.

[Mark B.]

Got a machine shop?

Jim

I wish. I don't have room for even a small milling machine.

[Mark B.]

Fish.. or cut bait !

I want a cheaper fishing rod holder.

[Mark B.]

$17,500 camera, $5,000 lens, $3,000 viewfinder, $1,000 recording system... homemade plastic support equipment?

Plastics can be much more durable and rigid than most people think.

[Peter McCully]

Let's see what third party stuff Lego come up with.

[Mike the beginner]

The Red Cage and other cage framework accessories are very much out of my desired spending range. Are there any cheaper alternatives that currently exist and would allow nearly the same functionality? Obviously if the alternative is made of an alloy that would be best, but I'd be happy with a tough injection-molded plastic equivalent.

Why dont you wait until you get the feedback from others after NAB. The red rail premium system does (to my inexperienced eye) look to be expensive compared to the basic rail system. But once others have examined and see how it works on the shoulder and quick change on the tripod etc you might change your mind and so might i.

Jim Jannard is right to comment on machine shop etc. Even if you got somone to make you an alternative in high quality plastic it would still cost quite a bit. There are many different people who have reserved the red camera. Some have large deep pockets that are mandatory for purchasing cine gear or professional equipment with, others have very shallow pockets who see red as a way of saving money (modularity) and starting off with top quality tools. There is nothing wrong with trying to save some money no matter how little "provided" you accept that there is a price to pay for everything we do.

I have no experience in this field but i do have in other fields (fishing). Since you mention you need a cheap fishing rod holder! Use a twig, they cost nothing, until you can afford a proper well made rod holder, it will last you a lifetime and give you great pleasure in the process:biggrin:


Until we find out what the red rail is made of and how it operates/comes apart etc it is difficult to evaluate. Just a beginners thought....

Mike the beginner

[HD Hildebrand]

Plastics can be much more durable and rigid than most people think.

Plastic - durable sure, riged I think not. The last thing you need is stuff flopping all around you. And once you start adding weight to your support system (body, lens, batteries, monitor....), then you put your camera on a dolly you will find your camera wobbling on the head and ruining your shot.

Look at prices, compare... and I have a feeling your search will come right back to Red.

[Clayton Harper]

Got a machine shop?

Jim

I have CNC capability through some friends. Could a body diagram with measurements be published at nab or shortly after?

I kinda want to make my own top plate like the old one without the rods.

[Pol Turrents]

expensive? you've never bought any camera complement at that prices!
check out how can it cost a bad mattebox, or a poor tripod....

[Priyesh P.]

I´d like to use a BP-5 and the S-3 / S-4 from ARRI. But don´t know if the Red fits onto any of those...

[tj williams]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/751_1175709528.jpg

Last years best of show plastic accessory the Mikko Lego Steadicam system a complete working steadicam made of plastic.

Aren't the rods we've seen in the renderings carbon fibre..... which is after all plastic. There are some very strong machinable plastics. The basic body can bolt straight onto your tripod plate. use the heads fore and aft capabilities.
There are mounting holes all over the body to adapt your own top handle.
Some foam and a little forming would make a nice 3/8 screw on shoulder mount.
I can't understand the need for the vast cage and all the handles.... I just don't have that many hands.:detective2: :detective2:

[Anders Holck]

Black Delrin is very strong, is easy to machine, and doesn't need surface treatment other that simple polishing.

[Greg Voevodsky]

$17,500 camera, $5,000 lens, $3,000 viewfinder, $1,000 recording system... homemade plastic support equipment?
Priceless. For everyone else there is Mastercard at 20% interest. You could buy the RED Cage and charge it - then pay it off after your first few jobs. :-):usd:

[Zakaree Sandberg]

JIM in fact i do have a machine shop at my disposal... any way we can buy the dimensions of the red cage? or plans or something?

[tj williams]

Totally Anders, we made a very nice video adapter for the HD eyepieces from Delrin black plastic. it looked good and was very solid... Actually quite a bit better plastic than the Sony VF's we mounted them to. also took a better shine.

I'm very hopeful that the RED TEam as they have stated will make all measurements of the body available. I'm hoping for a CAD Disk at NAB.

In the Steadi world a number of Ops make small quantities of accessories which work very well for those who think the same way. I anticipate the RED community will soon have many of these micro suppliers for those accessories which are simpler/cheaper/lighter/less stylish/plastic/stronger/special/specialty/more expensive/etc etc.... As most companies do RED will make the higher volume parts and there will also be a market for a few accessories, in limited volumes. Also I feel many ops will make some accessories with their local fab guy... the successful ones are often distributed sorta among friends.

[feb31films]

Great find TJ! When Peter McCully made the LEGO comment, I immediately remembered this picture! I was going to hunt it down, but you beat me to it. Sure looks like fun to use. I believe the only complaint was that the camea on top didn't actually record any images...

[Billy Summers]

Media added to the camera for recording purposes rendered the steadi practically un-operable; due to weight.

[tj williams]

Also the green screen was somewhat dull...

[Mark B.]

Priceless. For everyone else there is Mastercard at 20% interest. You could buy the RED Cage and charge it - then pay it off after your first few jobs. :-):usd:

I'm not anticipating getting any jobs... I have no previous experience, and I'm short most of the necessary accessories/lenses. This is going to be a money-pit purchase for me, for making some movies that will probably never return a profit.

[tj williams]

Lowkus

Last year my son shot a S16 film with digital finish which spent a total budget under 17K. The producer is in LA now trying to get distribution. They have some foreign TV offers, he's working to get theatrical. The money would go a long way toward making a movie! There is more to a movie in terms of expense than the camera! Maybe it is a good idea to think about what you really want a camera for which you have no market or a chance to tell the story that matters to you in the best way possible for you.

[Mark B.]

Tony Robbins isn't really necessary. I'm already motivated, and positive about the process, but being a programmer I'm used to looking at everything with a logical sense of reality.

You see, I've been into still photography for over a decade and I've come to realize that, yes, the tools do make a difference. For a person of a set skill level, if you put a better tool in their hand, 99% of the time their work will be better. Works that way for musicians, carpenters, mechanics, and on and on.

So, looking for a good tool, I've found Red. I know the purchase of a Red is a better long-term investment than any of the other cameras. My shooting schedule will have to be spread intermittently over many many weekends, due to my day job (and the crew availability), so it makes much better financial sense to buy a Red than to rent one.

So the Red purchase is a definite for me. But, as you've pointed out, the cost of making a movie goes beyond the gear. And I've analyzed that side of things too. It'll mostly be me and some good friends for the crew, shooting at free locations, modern clothes, no animals, no stunts, no children, no special effects, mostly brown-bagging lunches, using audio gear from my wanna-be-a-musician days (which haven't really ended yet), and the list of cut corners goes on and on. But the obvious result of all this is that the marketability is going to be low - no bankable stars or any of that stuff, and my plot options are extremely limited.

But if you have an urge to make movies, which is what I have... then really what else can be done but to plow through the odds to get them made? If I do what makes sense for my wallet, my life will be incredibly stagnate. So I take a risk here and there, tempered with inquiries for cheaper rails and whatnot. That's life near the bottom.

[Roberto B]

lowkus, you're not alone.. there are others with the same viewpoint and need.

[feb31films]

lowkus... you need to find that balance point between logical reality and risking it for passion. Heck , we all do! two things you might consider: Buy the minimum you need to get started and just rent the accessories on a per project bassis OR find a group of friends you can trust and go in together on a Red package. You could go as far as forming a company (which will help with things like insurance) or just form a Red User Group where everyone shares in the cost and everyone benefits from access to the gear. Just some thoughts...

[Mark B.]

lowkus... you need to find that balance point between logical reality and risking it for passion. Heck , we all do! two things you might consider: Buy the minimum you need to get started and just rent the accessories on a per project bassis OR find a group of friends you can trust and go in together on a Red package. You could go as far as forming a company (which will help with things like insurance) or just form a Red User Group where everyone shares in the cost and everyone benefits from access to the gear. Just some thoughts...

I'm pretty much with you on staying away from unnecessary accessories and renting them in odd circumstances. But the cage seems like fundamental gear, since it is needed to hold the battery, storage, and viewer.

As for a company, I already have one formed. Though, I have been considering changing it from a sole proprietorship to something with limited liability. Or maybe I'll start a second company to act as a liability shield so I can keep the tax benefits of the proprietorship. Any which way, bringing other people (even good friends) into a multiple-owner situation seems risky. I know it's a popular concept of late, but really I can only imagine problem after problem...

"This is broken! Who took it out last?" "I had it last, but it wasn't broken when I returned it... are you trying to frame me for something you did?!"

"Hey, I'm calling to ask 'where's the camera'? No it's my week to use it, you weren't supposed to have it until next week. Look, I'll just pick it up at your place tonight. Your not at your place? Well where are you? You're in WHAT country?!"

"Who changed the insurance coverage without permission from the group? I don't care if it's a better deal, or a limited time offer, you need to get permission from the group majority to renew with a different company!"

"Stolen? The camera was stolen??? You left it alone in a motel room?! I needed that today!"