Where's the 3/8 ?

[John Brawley]

Well that's what my grip said to me today as he tried to bolt a red onto the bonnet of a car For a tracking shot I was doing today.

Im shooting a TV comedy pilot and there's a fair whack of car traveling shots. As he pointed out, almost all the grip accessories are built for rigging from 3/8 not 1/4 inch.

Perhaps they're on the stupid red cage handles ? In which case they'll never make it onto my set. Why ? Well aside from having to undo 19 bolts with an allen key everytime you want to slide the rails around, i had 15mm rails on below and 19mm rails on above.

Maybe for EPIC red can consider some 3/8 mounting in the handle or the body ?

jb

[Evin Grant]

The ET top cheese plate has oodles of em....
http://www.evingrantdp.com/Gallery_files/ET-in-Action.jpg

[Jeff Kilgroe]

There's 3/8" on the bottom of the camera. 3/8" also on the Universal Mount, RED cheese plate (if you use the RED bottom plate) or on the Element Technica top cheese plate.

Maybe I'm not understanding, but most other cameras out there don't have 3/8" mounting holes all over them either.

[Manuel Wenger]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4114&d=1207622599

I see 2 x 3/8" per Cam, this is 100% more than on an ARRI 435 or every Sony arround, I´d consider another grip guy or less Fosters for him at breakfast ;)

Manuel

[Cail Young]

There's 3/8" on the bottom of the camera. 3/8" also on the Universal Mount, RED cheese plate (if you use the RED bottom plate) or on the Element Technica top cheese plate.

Indeed, and this is the discussion I was having with Dean Garro on set a few weeks ago. Until we buy an ET top cheese plate the Universal Mount gives us a 3/8" on 19mm top rails. Alternately you can use thread adapters, although I would say they're probably not the best bet when you're hanging from a car.

[Cail Young]

Perhaps they're on the stupid red cage handles ? In which case they'll never make it onto my set. Why ? Well aside from having to undo 19 bolts with an allen key everytime you want to slide the rails around, i had 15mm rails on below and 19mm rails on above.

The side handles are all 1/4"-20 as well. However you're overstating the difficulty of sliding rails with them attached; it's only an issue if you need to move the top or bottom set on their own. If you need to, it's one allen bolt per handle (leave the other one on!) and it's a tiny amount of force require to lock it. We threw an SAE allen set in the camera kit and give it to the 2AC so they aren't hunting for the right size key. To be honest we haven't the side handles much except as mounting points for wireless audio TX/RX.

[John Brawley]

There's 3/8" on the bottom of the camera. 3/8" also on the Universal Mount, RED cheese plate (if you use the RED bottom plate) or on the Element Technica top cheese plate.

Maybe I'm not understanding, but most other cameras out there don't have 3/8" mounting holes all over them either.

They have one on the handle usually. Not on an extra top plate you have to buy from another manufacturer that you have to install.

jb

[John Brawley]

The side handles are all 1/4"-20 as well. However you're overstating the difficulty of sliding rails with them attached; it's only an issue if you need to move the top or bottom set on their own. If you need to, it's one allen bolt per handle (leave the other one on!) and it's a tiny amount of force require to lock it. We threw an SAE allen set in the camera kit and give it to the 2AC so they aren't hunting for the right size key. To be honest we haven't the side handles much except as mounting points for wireless audio TX/RX.

Um. Yes it is. one..per handle ! Thats 4 ! AND...you need an allen key. And it doesn't work with the camera I have because they run 15mm bottoms and 19mm tops.



jb

[John Brawley]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4114&d=1207622599

I see 2 x 3/8" per Cam, this is 100% more than on an ARRI 435 or every Sony arround, I´d consider another grip guy or less Fosters for him at breakfast ;)

Manuel

Oh. right two on the bottom ?

Im talking about elsewhere on the camera. Not the bottom ones....you need to rig to two points for a car shot to prevent vibration. Of course it can be done like almost anything....there just isn't one where most others have one built in.

[Mitch Gross]

I agree that these 3rd party items need to be added to the camera in order to make it acceptable in professional environments. But I also find that true of many other cameras out there. One of the first mods we asked of the manufacturer of the Phantom camera was a flat top handle with threaded 3/8" holes for mounting.

[Zaphod]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4114&d=1207622599

I see 2 x 3/8" per Cam, this is 100% more than on an ARRI 435 or every Sony arround, I´d consider another grip guy or less Fosters for him at breakfast ;)

Manuel

Nope.

Both 435 and F23 have 3/8" on the handle.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I may be mistaken, but I think the handle on the 435 is an additional accessory, just as the various handle options / cheese plates, etc.. for RED.

To me this all sounds like a rental support issue and/or communication error. OP not familiar with the camera and whoever supplied the camera not aware of what was needed and not that familiarized with the camera themselves.

There seems to be a rash of this going around... Lots of owner/operators and rental houses who are just not that intimate with the RED and possible configurations, accessories and whatnot. A local production company I occasionally freelance for rented a RED about 6 weeks back and had a horrible experience. They got the camera with a "DIT" that could do little more than offload a CF card and serve as the camera's bodyguard. No operational support or post support, owner and his "DIT" (may be the same person, actually) basically were as clueless as the guys renting the camera. I've had to talk with this production company several times and do an extensive demo of the camera with them, just to convince them to give the camera another chance when / if they hire me.

As for the 3/8" mounting holes, I think the situation is just fine... Perhaps RED could put one on their handle, but the handle isn't always on the camera. Neither are any of the other accessories, I rather like the bits 'n pieces modularity of it all. Perhaps RED could have made the center hole on the Top Mount a 3/8". But for those renting out their REDs, they need to be capable of providing the necessary pieces for the job their renting for.

[John Brawley]

I may be mistaken, but I think the handle on the 435 is an additional accessory, just as the various handle options / cheese plates, etc.. for RED.

To me this all sounds like a rental support issue and/or communication error. OP not familiar with the camera and whoever supplied the camera not aware of what was needed and not that familiarized with the camera themselves.

The camera came from a very red knowledgeable rental company, a rental company that owns 6 RED's and has been around for 30 years.

I have done 3 jobs with RED and many days of testing with the camera.

I didn't have a DIT. I only had the budget for a focus puller. I'll take the focus puller who can back up files over a DIT any day.

I didn't miss the 3/8 but it was my grip that pointed it out.

The 435 has a tiny thumb sized block that can live full time on the camera.

To call the ET cheese plate the solution is stupid. You'd never leave it on full time would you ?



jb

[Mike Prevette]

I leave the ET Cheese plate and top mounts on all the time. It weighs almost nothing, and adds extra protection to the camera. I don't even consider it an option for camera owners. It's such an important part of making the RED set friendly. Red did a lot of things amazingly right, but the ET stuff really makes it sing. Seriously to consider it an option, or to rent the RED without it is just negligent.

[Michael Ragen]

My ET cheeseplate stays on 100 percent of the time. It affords me alternate ways to mount monitors, top handle, hold extra bolts, mount the battery or the drive or mount the camera on various things. I don't see a reason to remove it.

[Cail Young]

The camera came from a very red knowledgeable rental company, a rental company that owns 6 RED's and has been around for 30 years.

Did you let this rental company know you were shooting on a car rig? If so, they really should have given you a way to mount 3/8" to the camera, no?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'll take Johns word for it about the rental company. If they have 6 REDs, one would think they know what they're doing by now. I'm still not sure what the point of this thread is... There's several ways to mount 3/8" hardware to RED, the ET cheese plate is just one option. However, I think two top mounts from RED or ET plus this cheese plate are essential kit for all RED owners. Mine is on the camera nearly all the time. Only off if I have a specific reason to remove it

It is not "the solution", but currently one of the most practical.

[John Brawley]

My ET cheeseplate stays on 100 percent of the time. It affords me alternate ways to mount monitors, top handle, hold extra bolts, mount the battery or the drive or mount the camera on various things. I don't see a reason to remove it.

Seems to me that it means you forgo a carry handle ?

jb

[Ken Willinger]

Seems to me that it means you forgo a carry handle ?

jb
The handle mounts to the cheese plate. I keep the ET plate mounted all the time as well and have the handle mounted to that.

[Michael Brennan]

John,
I agree with you. Given the robust RED body there could be two 3/8 on top and two on each side.
Alternatively a cheese board that fits directly to camera with allen key (raised slightly of course) but without the rails.

Extra weigth of cheeseboard fixed on rails as well with more fasteners to check can be a pain for car rigs.



I would consider getting a couple holes drilled in the camera and fitted with SS sleeves. (if this works for magnesium allow bodies it will work for RED)
Such sleeves would be in keeping with the look of the camera!

Another approach I did with small box cameras is a SS cage with 3/8 pepered all over the place, makes rigging a breeze and affords lots of protection but adds weight.




Mike Brennan

[Michael Thornton]

I would consider getting a couple holes drilled in the camera and fitted with SS sleeves. (if this works for magnesium allow bodies it will work for RED)
Such sleeves would be in keeping with the look of the camera!

Ouch!!!

Consider an easier cheaper solution that I used.

Two of these with the 19mm top Rods.

http://www.red.com/store/product_detail/52

It does the job people.

Tek

[Dylan Macleod, CSC]

Sim's handle rocks. And it is full of 3/8.

http://store.simvideo.com/

Just shot with the red in all kinds of car mount rigs.

Worked beautifully.

Even mounted "underslung" supported entirely by the SIM top handle.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/4568_1212275823.jpg

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com

[Michael Thornton]

http://www.pokerteer.net/file/pic/gallery/8.jpg

Work good and reconfigurable recyclable parts and cheaper.

Tek