RED influenced Sony campaign

[Tonaci Tran]

I remember one reduser member received some Sony postcard about "real hd now" or something like that. I just checked out NAB digital preview issue..and in it..the Sony ad read

"Faced with onrushing deadlines, you can’t wait for new technologies to mature. You can’t risk your future on airy promises. You need it all and you need it now. And you can get it with Sony."

my interpretation:
"Faced with onrushing deadlines, you can’t wait for (RED) to mature. You can’t risk your future on RED'S airy promises. You need it all and you need it now. And you can get it with Sony."

my personal response:
"Faced with onrushing deadlines, I don't want to be limited to 1080p, I don't want to pay 170,000 for a 2/3 chip camera system, I want 35mm depth of field, I want to use PL Lenses, I want more flash options for recording, I want portability and I don't want to pay 20,000 for a deck. I can’t risk my future on soon to be obselete gear. I need it all and I need 4k redcode now. And I can get it with RED."

The propaganda is amusing. I can just imagine the Sony execs sitting with the marketing department. Okay guys..this RED thing looks like its for real..we gotta restrategize our marketing campaign.

At NAB... everyone is going to be mobbing to see RED ONE.. don't know if the same will be said for their f23.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

its funny because they are trying to get a rush of buyers RIGHT NOW! because they know in just a few weeks they are gunna lose alot of customers.
i still think the f900 will have its place but only for the guys at cinematography who are anti-red ..

[Tonaci Tran]

I think the f23 will cost around 150,000..and im not sure if it includes the recording deck... in any event.. even if SONY did some crazy price slashing and reduced the f23 down to 20,000, I would still choose RED. 4k shooting, redcode raw..no deck..a plethora of flash recording options..better portability.. etc etc

the only thing Sony has going for it is experience (hence their latest marketing campaign). This alone will not save their cinealta as more and more feature films are shot with RED..reliability questions will be answered.

[Jim Arthurs]

On a different forum it was mentioned that the F23 plus the deck was 10X the cost of the RED... so approx. 175,000 US.

Let's see... 2/3" chips, no native 35mm DOF or 35mm cine or still lenses... VERY heavy with deck, and the RED is 4X the resolution, equal or better dynamic range... at 1/10th the price... hummm...

CANCEL MY RED RESERVATION, I'M GOING FOR THE F23!!!

Still want to stop by the Band Pro booth and chide them about it...

[Tom Lowe]

Haha, they sound desperate.

Has anyone seen the size of that F23 with the deck on top?? Ridiculous. Plus the 2/3" sensor is the kiss of death if they are asking for over $150K. You could buy severals REDs for that, plus have dough left over for some some kick-ass lenses!

[PaulClements]

I think the most amusing thing about it all is that Jim and Red have taken a heck of a lot of flack from people on various other forums for their marketting campaign, but never once have they actively sought to put down their competition with such blatant comments. Infact if nothing else they've been emphasising the achievements of various other companies.

And yet here is Sony doing the worst kind of marketting possible by actively campaigning against Red rather than adopting a new stratagem for their cameras and workflow. I bet all their advertising alone has cost about the same as the production spent on RedOne.

Worst of all is I bet not one of those who has been anti-red because of marketting would stand up and admit that Sony's marketting is even worse and scandalise their products because of it.

[MikeCurtis]

Yeah, 10x price differential is going to be tough to overcome. F23 is the closest thing you can actually buy on the market - Genesis and D-20 and Dalsa are all strictly rental, circa $3K/day.

Circa $180K with recorder is my gut read on that too, but Bravin's a rep so he'd know for sure.

As for the Sony campaign, yeah - it is tough to think that it isn't influenced by Red.

There's some good stories I can't tell...

[Tom Lowe]

This type of negative marketing makes them look like a dinosaur lashing out as it is trapped in the tar pit.

[Jeremy Torrie]

Maybe they should have intro'd the F23 two years ago when they had a chance to still get some suckers to pay that kind of ridiculous price. They had all of the parts for that camera back when they intro'd the 950.

[JohnF]

It's funny really as I imagine Sony could bring out an HDCAM camera running at 1080p with a 35mm chip(same res just larger pixels reducing noise etc) and PL mount in a blink of an eye! They could keep everything the same on their cam except the chip.

But after my "little chat" with Sony at one of the UK trade shows last year where they bodly stated that "I didn't want a 35mm sensor" (despite the fact I asked when they were going to install it on their camera) I don't think they are going to know what's hit them when RED comes out.

I'll say it again thank you RED team for listening to DOP's/camera ops. It sure makes a change!

JohnF

[Jaime Vallés]

There's some good stories I can't tell...
What if we buy you a beer? Will you spill the beans then? :wink:

[Clayton Harper]

What if we buy you a beer? Will you spill the beans then? :wink:

You might end up in Mike's party photos on hd4indies! :clown2:

Mike, just sign up a new user here who expouses their "theories".

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Well they are gunna be forced to drop there prices.. like.. A LOT!!!!!!!! they would have to be below the red one in price in order for it to have any value...I think this was the intent of Jim and gang.. they want to make these blood sucking corporate movie mongrels learn a hard lesson and make film making accessible to talent and not just money

[Jason Francois]

I don't honestly think that Sony COULD discount their cameras enough even if they felt like it. The company is so bloated with corporate overhead that the camera still probably costs them a few times more than RED's retail price just to produce.

This next year should be ugly for the larger corporations.

[Mark L. Pederson]

It's really going to be SHOCK AND AWE -

There's gonna be tumbleweed blowing through several expensive booths - and a desperate need for security and crowd control in RED country.

Millions of dollars will be lost by some companies.

Like I said before, it's a good thing that the convention center is on the ground floor - less casualties with JUMPERS ....

[Michael Schrengohst]

Just like PanaVision cameras which would too expensive to buy, the Sony gear will have to head that way. And I bet Sony will have to partner with every rental house it can and basically split the cost of the rental income.
I am sure those cameras will get used by the networks for something.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

In my mind i just picture the best NAB EVER!... the sony booth will have sony reps with crossed arms just glaring over at the red booth and anyone who does enter sony will be talkin red and so sony will be hearing it allllll dayyyyy.. i love it

[PaulClements]

Probably the same sony reps who glared, crossed armed, at the iPod stand way back when and the Xbox 360 and Wii stand last year... muttering under thier breath "Don't worry lads, we'll sought out this nonsense with some good old fashion marketting ploys".

One of the things I really hoped Red would do was force the hands of other manufacturers to compete, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen as quickly as anticipated. Competition is healthy, reacting to it through marketting instead of R&D is not.

[Tom Lowe]

Someone mentioned the possibility that Sony had signed some kind of non-compete clause with Panavision when they did their partnership on the Genesis, which is the only explanation I can think of as to why Sony is not putting a full-size sensor on that F23, especially at such a ridiculous price.

Sony probably needs to charge these astronomical prices for the F23 to make up for the $300 per unit they are losing on their PS3s, trying to battle Microsoft and Nintendo. This is yet another reason why I feel confident that if anyone does "win" this HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray war, it will not be Sony. They have a long history of losing format wars.

The rootkit DRM scandal on those CDs also brought shame and discredit upon Sony.

[Gunleik Groven]

It's kinda weird how fast Sony has gone from good guy to bad guy in almost every market they're in.

I don't say it's undeserved, just noteworthy.

Gunleik

[Tom Lowe]

They have displayed arrogance and hubris, is probably why.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Sony probably needs to charge these astronomical prices for the F23 to make up for the $300 per unit they are losing on their PS3s, trying to battle Microsoft and Nintendo. .

even tho they are officially the same company "SONY" they are a different division and run by a different dept.. the financials per each division is separated.

they just want to keep film making cost up so studios stay in biz

[Tonaci Tran]

Try this experiment. Buy a RED Tshirt from the RED booth, put it on, and then stroll over to the Sony booth to see how well they treat you.

better yet.. wear a Tshirt that says...." Got 4k?" and see how much sony love you'll get haha. man I'm mean.

[Tom Lowe]

better yet.. wear a Tshirt that says...." Got 4k?" and see how much sony love you'll get haha. man I'm mean.

HAHAHAHA.