Redcine + 8 Cores

[Tonaci Tran]

To the REDCINE coding team,
Now that apple has released an 8 core monster..does this mean you have to put more work into coding REDCINE to effectively take advantage of all 8 cores?
Have you ordered your 8 core monster yet? hehe

[Chris Kenny]

Processing footage is something that should scale pretty easily to an arbitrarily large number of cores. Have eight cores? Just process eight frames at once.

However, we know REDCINE can also leverage the GPU. That makes things a bit more complex. Maybe you'd get more bang for you buck with a quad core machine that had a faster graphics card?

[Tom Lowe]

Are these 8-core machines for real? How far off are PCs from 8-core? I saw in the latest Dell catalog that top-end XPS systems are shipping with quad-cores right now.

[Chris Kenny]

Are these 8-core machines for real? How far off are PCs from 8-core? I saw in the latest Dell catalog that top-end XPS systems are shipping with quad-cores right now.

Right, but you can have two quad core processors, for a total of eight cores.

[Jaime Vallés]

Are these 8-core machines for real?
They sure are:

http://www.apple.com/macpro/ (http://www.apple.com/macpro/)

I'm going to wait as long as absolutely possible before buying a system to edit RED footage. My Rev. A Dual 2GHz G5 is still going strong (when dealing with SD footage...) :meh:

[Tom Lowe]

They sure are:

http://www.apple.com/macpro/ (http://www.apple.com/macpro/)

I'm going to wait as long as absolutely possible before buying a system to edit RED footage. My Rev. A Dual 2GHz G5 is still going strong (when dealing with SD footage...) :meh:

This is very wise, and I think everyone here is beginning to understand this. Computers are improving so quickly these days that if you buy a top-end machine in the Spring, by late Summer you will be reading the latest catalogs and realizing your machine is already severely outdated.

I bought a kick-ass system last June, and by Oct/Nov the same chip could be had in Dell's bargain basement PCs for 1/3 of what I paid. I'd say get your system up and running no sooner than about a month before you are ready to use it for RED work. And do lots of homework about what is coming out.

[Steve Freebairn]

8 cores are new to macs, but not to PCs. You've actually been able to get an 8 core or more system in a PC for several months now. Mac is offering a sweet system, but they aren't the first with 8 cores, they're actually close to last.

[Steve Freebairn]

I'd be really interested in seeing what a quad core PC with 2 8800GTXs could do compared to the 8 core systems out there. Those 8800s are incredible.

[Chris Kenny]

8 cores are new to macs, but not to PCs. You've actually been able to get an 8 core or more system in a PC for several months now. Mac is offering a sweet system, but they aren't the first with 8 cores, they're actually close to last.

Apple seems to have been holding out for the 3 GHz quad core chips. (Which Dell isn't offering yet, though they probably will be fairly soon.)

[Robert Sanders]

I'd be really interested in seeing what a quad core PC with 2 8800GTXs could do compared to the 8 core systems out there. Those 8800s are incredible.

Why do you need two?

[Thom Steinhoff]

Here is something maybe Graeme can answer without taking thunder away from NAB: Will RedCine and the new Codec take advantage of multi-processor machines?

I'm pretty sure that 8 cores won't do us much good on individual applications unless the software takes advantage of it--it will just allow us to run more more applications at once.

Hopefully RedCine and the new FCP and Shake will take advantage of all of the processors and more memory, otherwise it only helps us to run more applications at once which doesn't do much good to speed up Renders.

[Jason Francois]

Quad core, Eight core. It's all good, but now I'm going to have to build a separate room just for the CPU since I'm sure they'll run MUCH hotter than my Dual 2.0 does already. :(

[Thom Steinhoff]

Quad core, Eight core. It's all good, but now I'm going to have to build a separate room just for the CPU since I'm sure they'll run MUCH hotter than my Dual 2.0 does already. :(

Just think of what you'll save on heating bills! Actually, from what I hear, the new Mac Pros run much cooler than the G5's. My main edit machine now is a 2.5 G5 and mine definately rivals any space heater.

[JoshBertrand]

Yeah, actually the Mac Pros are really cool and really quiet. I haven't seen/heard an 8-core in person but when I turned on my quad I thought it was broken... nope just really quiet (except the hard disks are much more noticeable without all of that fan noise). Can't say I miss the G5 wine all day!

[Martin Ludwig]

no comment from Graeme yet? we all should wait til NAB to see the recommanded specs for redcine...

[Damien Molineaux]

no comment from Graeme yet? we all should wait til NAB to see the recommanded specs for redcine...

Give him 24 hours, he just got his Eight core MacPro serial number 008 and he's doing a new build of Redcine to see how he can optimize it !!!!!!!!

I'm sure if it's worthwile for Redcine to take advantage of eight cores (which I'm sure it is), the Red team will make sure Redcine does so, as soon as possible, which may be in a future update.

Cheers,
Damien

[Jeff Kilgroe]

REDCINE and multiple processors was discussed a while back in this thread here (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2833#post2833). Rob gave a little insight, but I'm guessing that we'll get all the juicy bits at NAB (as with everything else lately). Post #18 is especially informative.

[Tonaci Tran]

Thanks Jeff..that link answers the question pretty well.

[Tonaci Tran]

Mac is offering a sweet system, but they aren't the first with 8 cores, they're actually close to last.


http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/06/apple-using-exclusive-3ghz-xeon-from-intel/
but at least first to have 8 core 3.0s.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/06/apple-using-exclusive-3ghz-xeon-from-intel/
but at least first to have 8 core 3.0s.

Intel has been doing this a lot over the last year or so... Giving one vendor exclusive buys on a new chip model. They did it in November with HP and gave them a nearly 45 day advantage by allowing them the exclusive to the 2.66GHz quad-core Xeon. Now Apple has secured the 3GHz model for at least a 30 day cycle.

The more I look at it, this 8-core update from Apple is nothing more than a marketing stunt or something they're doing just because they can. They have an exclusive for a few weeks on the 3GHz chips so they're going to use them. I would still bet we see a bigger Mac Pro update in another 2 to 3 months as Apple will do doubt ship newer systems with the upcoming Stoakley/Seaburg chipset. I wouldn't even be surprised if such a system is *announced* at NAB. The updated Intel chipset gives 44 PCI-E lanes, PCI-E 2.0, faster FSB options and a more efficient memory controller. Intel's new chipset should be shipping to OEMs by the end of April to sometime in May. In typical Apple fashion, that translates to late June, maybe even mid July for incorporation into a system. Intel will be shipping updated CPU models by then too.

I'm eager to see what Apple comes out with when the real update hits. But I won't buy until they do something to fix the dismal graphics options.

[Nathan Troutman]

The more I look at it, this 8-core update from Apple is nothing more than a marketing stunt or something they're doing just because they can. They have an exclusive for a few weeks on the 3GHz chips so they're going to use them. I would still bet we see a bigger Mac Pro update in another 2 to 3 months as Apple will do doubt ship newer systems with the upcoming Stoakley/Seaburg chipset. I wouldn't even be surprised if such a system is *announced* at NAB. The updated Intel chipset gives 44 PCI-E lanes, PCI-E 2.0, faster FSB options and a more efficient memory controller. Intel's new chipset should be shipping to OEMs by the end of April to sometime in May. In typical Apple fashion, that translates to late June, maybe even mid July for incorporation into a system. Intel will be shipping updated CPU models by then too.

I'm eager to see what Apple comes out with when the real update hits. But I won't buy until they do something to fix the dismal graphics options.

Amen to everything you said. But, if you look at Apple's G5/Mac Pro upgrade cycle they've never broken the normal timeline before. However here's the insider's quote, "The last Mac Pro updates only introduced an 8-Core Mac Pro, leaving the rest of the line untouched. Updates to the regular Mac Pros may still be coming." Let's hope so. The shortest update cycle was around 5 months with the longest being about 10 months. The most frustrating thing about this "upgrade" is it comes after a fairly long cycle. We should've seen more. I hope it's coming and maybe it is since Apple might've needed to capitalize on the exclusive they had on the Intel 3.0 Quad Xeons. But after 8 months Apple can't coordinate a real upgrade to the entire line with the release of the new Intel chip? I'd love to know what's going on. Maybe someone forgot to order the new video cards from Nvidia:help:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think Apple is just capitalizing on their exclusive chip deal with a spec-bump. There is no reason for Apple to do a re-design or major update to the Mac Pro right now because the soon to be released Intel chipset just isn't here yet. But even with a a CPU bump, I'm still baffled about Apple not at least adding a new video option or two. And why no price adjustments? 500GB hard drives are $125 these days... WTH???

I think we're just seeing a glorified spec-bump to take advantage of their CPU position and to get 8-core on the market before a major event (NAB). This way at NAB they're not announcing 8-core systems as something new (considering every PC workstation vendor has had them for months), but rather they can brag about having the only 3GHz 8-core systems. Then they can get on to the real substance of the show. Hopefully it's good....

I still think we'll see updated Mac Pros using the new Intel chipset within the next couple months. OTOH, they may wait until August/September with the new Intel CPUs to update. Which wold be fine by me... I won't get my RED until around then and I'd rather wait until I can buy a system with true unified quad core CPUs instead of dual on-die Woodies. nVidia will be shipping the 8900 and 8950 variants by then, hopefully Apple offers one of those. Dual / SLI 8950GTX would be icing on the cake. But I'm not going to get my hopes up... They'll probably wait until August to start offering the 8800GT :/

[Bruce Allen]

Jeff, I totally agree with you. I am going to go even further though - I am going to wai until near the end next year - Apple, please give us a 45nm Nehalem 16-core with saucy graphics card options. Or maybe just a quad-core Macbook with eSATA and a higher-res sceen. It'll be my first Mac ever!

Problem is, I'm hoping to shoot on a Red before that. Damn!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Poi Boy]

why not wait 3 yeas for the the 32 core ?
-A

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Amen to everything you said. But, if you look at Apple's G5/Mac Pro upgrade cycle they've never broken the normal timeline before.

I agree on the upgrade cycle, but I think we're going to be seeing more irregularities in cycle as Apple now has to flow with the Intel based PC market. This should just be considered what it is, a spec bump, not an update. The same was done with the first generation Macbook Pro. Everyone expected a big update with the release of Core 2 Duo. Instead we got a spec bump about 2 months before the Core 2 CPUs hit. Then Apple appeared to be dragging their feet while rabid customers waited to order a C2D Macbook [Pro]. It seemed as if Apple was late to the party, but they really weren't... They obviously just waited until they could secure quantities of the 2.33GHz mobile chips and they were one of the first to ship notebook computers with that chip.

Intel has new chipsets that offer vast improvements in options and performance just around the corner. I would not be surprised if Apple announces new Macbook Pro systems at NAB. Hopefully they will update the tired X1600 GPU and give us a higher resolution screen -- at least on the 17" model.

Anyway, trying to guess what Apple is going to do is usually futile.

[Bruce Allen]

why not wait 3 yeas for the the 32 core ?
-A

Because by 2009 my 2.8ghz single-core PC at home (Intel P4, not even AMD) would be REALLY be out of date.

Yes, I'd probably upgrade sooner if I didn't use much faster machines at work.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Poi Boy]

I was kidding about the 32 core.
I don't think " much faster machines " exist, maybe a little faster but not
" much faster ".
Aloha
-A

[laguun]

I was kidding about the 32 core.
I don't think " much faster machines " exist, maybe a little faster but not
" much faster ".
Aloha
-A

16 core systems are usual stuff, since over over one year.
They were double the speed of the max 8 cores which are coming to the market now in 2006 already.

you can even easily custombuild one, starting with 2 cores and then expand over time.

http://tyan.com/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=247 and add the m4881, 8 dualcores now, 8 quadcores later this year. so its 16 now, 32 when AMD delivers their quadcore.

but those system rather make sense for hardcore-loading them with rendering several jobs paralell.

using them as workstations won´t double your performance, as disk i/o will become a bottleneck and most softwares for NLE & VFX aren´t really optimised for >4 cpus.

what is nice about apples 4 & 8 core pcs is that they have a well trimmed sweet performance/price spot in the market. for the 16core pcs windows in a quite costy edition is needed, and the series 8xx opterons which are required for 16 core system are rather expensive as well.

[Poi Boy]

Totally agree; there will always be an extreme option but price and practicality usually makes it an unreal solution for most of us.
Aloha
-A

[laguun]

Totally agree; there will always be an extreme option but price and practicality usually makes it an unreal solution for most of us.
Aloha
-A

to be honest, we (and most "classic" houses) are used to have to pay $$$.$$$ per NLE/VFX workstation.

discreet/sony/avid/quantel nel&vfx - pc & storage 100-250K$ including software,
20-60K$ image & soundmonitoring
20-100K$ VTR

were and are pretty much the usual prices film & tv production houses were used to pay per seat.

so it is pretty funny, that our premiere and fcp licenses now will be used for the highest quality digital production chain in our house (we have a complete hdcam/cinealta workflow since 2002 as well).'

[Darren Orange]

Also don't forget that soon the 8800's and will have drivers such that the Graphics cards can do more then just make graphics but also do math in tandem with the main CPU(s) as the GPU's with 8800's can exucte "C".