KinoFlo Immitators - any experience?

[Mark Allen]

Has anyone had any practical experience with any of the kinoflo immitators like these?

One Type on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/PRO-Fluorescent-Light-Flolight-4x55W-5600K-as-KinoFlo_W0QQitemZ110255646290QQihZ001QQcategoryZ38 60QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Another Ebay Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/DSR-4-Trichromatic-fluorescent-Studio-Light-as-Kinoflo_W0QQitemZ270238424242QQihZ017QQcategoryZ38 60QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp 1638Q2em118Q2el1247)

I have tried a lowell for a show once and it was not good - so I'm weary.

[John Brawley]

Has anyone had any practical experience with any of the kinoflo immitators like these?


I have tried a lowell for a show once and it was not good - so I'm weary.

Weary or wary ?

I have also *been* there. The truth is that Kino's are usually better built, lighter. And you know what you're getting. It hurts. But I always keep coming back to Kino. That goes for their tubes as well.

jb

[Steve Gal]

The kino tubes fit in these aftermarket fixtures. All it is a dimmable flourescent ballast and the 2G11 bulb mounts. Yes, Kino-flo probably are built better and then you have the name behind it as well.

[John Brawley]

The kino tubes fit in these aftermarket fixtures. All it is a dimmable flourescent ballast and the 2G11 bulb mounts. Yes, Kino-flo probably are built better and then you have the name behind it as well.

While it is possible to physically fit them, though Im lead to believe the kino tubes need to be *driven* in a certain way that gives them their CRI performance for their own tubes. Essentially, that means driving them harder than a regular tube, and that's what the Kino Ballasts do. They deliberatly shorten the life of the tube to make them brighter. And the kino tubes are gassed in a way that takes this "over driving" into account so they have the best CRI.

Which also means if you put kino's in regular fixtures they aren't right. (according to their specs anyway)

Might be lore, but it's what I hear. And it's certainly the case when you put them in domestic fixtures.

jb

[Davide B.]

I've heard very good things about these guys: http://coollights.biz/

The owner/operator is very active on dvxuser.com (i think I've seen him here too).

[Paris Remillard]

While it is possible to physically fit them, though Im lead to believe the kino tubes need to be *driven* in a certain way that gives them their CRI performance for their own tubes. Essentially, that means driving them harder than a regular tube, and that's what the Kino Ballasts do. They deliberatly shorten the life of the tube to make them brighter. And the kino tubes are gassed in a way that takes this "over driving" into account so they have the best CRI.

Which also means if you put kino's in regular fixtures they aren't right. (according to their specs anyway)

Might be lore, but it's what I hear. And it's certainly the case when you put them in domestic fixtures.

jb

I could be totally wrong here, but I think that that is just for the T12 tubes. That's why the 4-bank and 2-bank ballasts have the high and low output settings. The high output is overdriven and the low output is not, I believe.

The 55w T5 biax bulbs, like in these lights and in the Divas, are driven by different High Output, sometimes dimming, ballasts, so kino flos biax tubes should work fine.

Just for reference on a homebrew fluorescent unit, I bought some high-bay warehouse fixtures that have linear T5 tubes that are great. They required a bit of work to make them usable, mainly just adding a baby plate and some black paint. But they are totally flicker free and super bright. Bulbs are 5900K, 96 CRI. A 4 light fixture is nearly as bright as an 8 light Image 80/85. $169 + plate. Or another $125 for dimming ballasts. Not for everyone, but I'd be more than happy and confident to use them on a job. Doing so tomorrow, in fact.

http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/commercial_lighting_fixtures_35_ctg.htm

As long as the ballasts are electronic, they'll be flicker free. I'm pretty sure that all electronic ballasts run at 20-30,000 Hz. Just don't know what the quality of the ballasts in those ebay lights are or how the housings might hold up. They don't look too bad, it's just the shipping that's the killer.

[Matt Gottshalk]

I have a 4 bank and 2 bank version of the dimmable coollights and they work great,

[Nick Gardner]

Both the links you listed are for Bi-ax based systems. In my opinion the most usefull thing about Kinos is that you can tear the lamp apart and just use the tubes. That way you can build them into sets, make them practicals, stick them behind stuff etc.

So if yoou are going to use them like a Diva they should be fine. I have some Desisti flouros that I like just fine, really well made, but I miss the kino versatility.

Nick

[Francis Kenny]

ask Frieder at kinoflo. He is a great guy and will give you an honest answer.

[jimhare]

I'd love more info on this as well. It's very tempting to get full fixtures with tubes for $400, but it's wasted if they don't perform.

I'm thinking of spending $3k plus on a pair of Diva 400s with full kit, just because I know I won't be disappointed.

Anyone have real world stories of using both?

[John Brawley]

I'd love more info on this as well. It's very tempting to get full fixtures with tubes for $400, but it's wasted if they don't perform.

I'm thinking of spending $3k plus on a pair of Diva 400s with full kit, just because I know I won't be disappointed.

Anyone have real world stories of using both?

The diva's are great (i own a 400) as far as brightness goes. But the colour is up the whazoo once you start to dim, which looses it's advantage to me. Still, they are very very bright for their footprint and the fact they are daylight / tungsten switchable is also great, especially with RED.

If it makes you feel better i paid close to 3K for a single diva when they first came out and the exchange rate was crappy.


jb

[Mike Prevette]

I'll second John. My Diva 400 has paid for itself 20 times over easy. I've taken it around the world literally 7 times now. I love that light. It's possibly my most used piece of kit ever.

It's a punchy harsh light or a soft face light depending on what you make of it, and it comes in a suitcase with the ballast mounted and a built in yolk what more could you ask?

[John Brawley]

I've taken it around the world literally 7 times now. I love that light. It's possibly my most used piece of kit ever.


Yep. I forgot to add, the case they come in is great as well. i too have travelled a lot with it and it's very robust and reliable.

Gimme a diva and a kit of dedo's and I can take on the world....

jb

[Mark Allen]

The one kinoflo light I know intimately is the 4bank. How does the diva compare to this? I'm sure I've had one on set - but probably on a shoot I was less hands on with the lights.

[John Brawley]

The one kinoflo light I know intimately is the 4bank. How does the diva compare to this? I'm sure I've had one on set - but probably on a shoot I was less hands on with the lights.

It's brighter (because of the tubes it uses) and more compact, plus dim-able. And the ballast is in the back so it's all integrated rather than having a separate ballast and a cable to the head itself.

The only down side is you can't rip the tubes out to use by themselves, as previously mentioned.

jb

[Patrick Tresch]

Kobold has also many advatages and can be dimmed.

http://www.bron.ch/kb_pd_en/index.php

See you.

Pat

[Johan Pabon]

Hi Mark,
I ordered two DSR's at Stevenstudio.
I think you'll have to treat them carefull but they work. I saw no flicker whatsoever on test shooting on 720/50p on a JVC GY-HD 201.
I bought Osram Dulux L Daylight coming with it. They are being made in Italy, so it's strange I bought them in China....
One of the tubes wouldn't work, when I took the back off the inside of the DSR was a mess. This is because I ordered my DSR6 with Osram ballasts.
Not being original they put them in in just like.... with tape...
So I opened the DSR4 with a Chinese ballast and this one looks okay.
I am trying to fix the ballasts but that is not so easy everything being feeble. Indeed a connection was loose. For a little time I had 6 tubes burning, then only four and now six again. I drilled a few holes, tightened everything as good as possible, and it works....
The DSR4 has two switches, so you can use 2 tubes and 4.
The DSR 6 has no switch.

Greetings,

Johan

[Shawn Nelson]

I have a 4 bulb Diva 400 knockoff (uses the 55w BIAX tubes) and a 2 bulb version and love'em. Throw away whatever tubes come with them and get the Kino tubes. You get the same quality of light for a fraction of the price. Then you can later get the 3x the cost Kinos (if you must) and use the chinese kino knockoffs ("Chinos") as backups/spare heads. Though I don't think you can ever have too many fixtures.

[Mitch Gross]

I've used many brands and types of fluorescent lights. All of the major manufacturers offer excellent products. The problem with the no-name brands is that they are often made to a basic industrial quality as opposed to a professional production quality. This means that things like the clips they use to hold in the bulbs are not meant for constant bulb swapping (as one does when going from daylight to tungsten), the tilt and pan locks are often poor, the unit is rather heavy and the build is often cheap rivets instead of screws. For a light that would mount to a grid and sit in a studio forever this is just fine, but for a unit that one would want to transport from location to location for general production shooting, this can be a real pain. This is definitely a case where you get what you pay for.

That said, although I like Kinoflos they are certainly not the only kids on the block. Arri, DeSisti, Mole-Richardson, Lowel, Pampa and others all make great lights.

[Mike Prevette]

It's brighter (because of the tubes it uses) and more compact, plus dim-able. And the ballast is in the back so it's all integrated rather than having a separate ballast and a cable to the head itself.

The only down side is you can't rip the tubes out to use by themselves, as previously mentioned.

jb

It's a much "punchier" light than the 4foot 4banks. Like John said it's the same wattage in half the length, so it casts a sharper shadow. You can pull the bulbs but they are wired in pairs so it's 4, 2, or nothing.