What is the best workflow?

[Christoffer Glans]

In october I'm going to start doing editing on a feature film shot on Red One. We were supposed to shoot on 35mm this March but due to many issues we had to push production forward. Now, during the time before March the producer (who is a hardcore FCP user) tried to make me go FCP for this (I'm going to edit on location as well as in post). I'm not so keen on working with FCP because I'm very used to Avid even though I haven't worked with time code based offline editing that's connecting to an online finish.

Now when we changed the format to Red One I'm even more scared of him proposing a FCP based workflow and I really don't want that.

Because I doubt that Avid will get Redcode support before October I'm interested in the best workflow possible with Avid MC. The computer I'm editing on during production will be a quite cheap laptop, but I'm thinking to edit SD resolution on location and then do the real deal in post.
We are only editing on location for the sake of knowing that we have all shots needed.

But is it possible for me to edit in SD or 720p during postprod and then let the postproduction house do the online finish in FCP?
What is the best workflow when I don't know if I got the computer power needed for 4K or the discspace needed for all the material?

Need to solve this before october so I can present a flawless workflow that he can't say ney to...

Be a hero and help me out! :)

[Fredrik Callinggard]

By october none of that is a problem, trust me.

fredrik

[Christoffer Glans]

By october none of that is a problem, trust me.

What makes you so sure? Any intel I don't know about? :detective2:
I know there is word of a "better workflow" release in June (not the Avid but something Red)... does it have something to do with this?

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Just wait until the SDK is released. A lot of things will happen then.


Fredrik

[Finner]

There are already underground Avid solutions that work, you just need to know the right people. The problem is not solutions, the issue is exclusive deals with current red partners holding back solutions.

[Mark L. Pederson]

The problem is not solutions, the issue is exclusive deals with current red partners holding back solutions.

Ahhhhh Finner .... I have some meds for you.

[Finner]

Ahhhhh Finner .... I have some meds for you.

Do they come in flintstone shapes?

[Fredrik Callinggard]

There are already underground Avid solutions that work, you just need to know the right people. The problem is not solutions, the issue is exclusive deals with current red partners holding back solutions.

He said it, not me :biggrin: but I second that :biggrin: :biggrin:

(I've seen one that's almost realtime primary grading as you can either convert for offline to DNxHD (or chosen codec) or from EDL to Online (where you can choose to either just cut the redcode with handles (to redcode) or convert to chosen codec). It was just about 20fps/sec on his desktop (he will tweak it to realtime) and just under 10 on the laptop. Very simple app, very very clever guy).

Fredrik

[Cüneyt Kaya]

He said it, not me :biggrin: but I second that :biggrin: :biggrin:

(I've seen one that's almost realtime primary grading as you can either convert for offline to DNxHD (or chosen codec) or from EDL to Online (where you can choose to either just cut the redcode with handles (to redcode) or convert to chosen codec). It was just about 20fps/sec on his desktop (he will tweak it to realtime) and just under 10 on the laptop. Very simple app, very very clever guy).

Fredrik

has this weirdo redish surfer something to do with it :) ?

[Christoffer Glans]

It was just about 20fps/sec on his desktop (he will tweak it to realtime) and just under 10 on the laptop. Very simple app, very very clever guy).

Maybe he could... I dunno... release it? :D

[Finner]

He said it, not me :biggrin: but I second that :biggrin: :biggrin:


This is something 95% of the well informed redusers I talk with already know about, have seen or currently have and are using. Funny thing is no one wants to actually openly talk about it even though it is not really that well kept of a secret.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

This is something 95% of the well informed redusers I talk with already know about, have seen or currently have and are using. Funny thing is no one wants to actually openly talk about it even though it is not really that well kept of a secret.

Isn't it hahahahaha

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Maybe he could... I dunno... release it? :D

I told him he should, he said No. He doesn't want to be bothered with the support thing. He'll use it for his own purpose.

But it's there to grab as soon as it's allowed (as in people making apps).


Fredrik

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Come in guys :sick: enough puzzles ,,what is it ??:excl:

[Doug_Hancock]

I found a good offline work around with Avid adrenaline through fcp and meta cheater. Quick and dirty.

1. Use media manager in fcp to recompress red files to dv (preserving the same filename and timecode as the red file).
2. import this list to meta cheater to create an ale file.
3. import the ale file to avid (creating your master clips) then batch import this list with your dv files.

Once the edit is complete you can export a regular edl to Scratch and start working in 4k.

[pkeenan]

This just in:
It was posted on the site: Studio Daily by an Avid Solutions Manager name Michael Phillips. Since it's from Avid I reckon it's newsworthy. Can anyone verify?

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/training/9547.html

[MichaelP]

It's a continuation of the article that ran in April which talked to the Red Alert! and Metacheater workflow. This month's article is a more detailed look at what to do within MetaCheater. I'll have to land on the side of it being newsworthy... ;)

Michael

[theatereleven]

Nice article - thanks Michael! Tell Avid that part of their 'new thinking' should be to give you a raise. You constantly save all our necks out here.

[feeonac]

Come in guys :sick: enough puzzles ,,what is it ??:excl:

Is there a faster workflow? I can't seem to get faster than about 7 times real time into AVID?

Fiona

[MichaelP]

I have gotten 3.2x real time importing into an octo Mac. Make sure you are on fast drives when doing so as the read/write can add some hefty overhead. I was going from _H to DNxHD36.

Michael

[feeonac]

Thanks. I'm using a MacBookPro so not much hope of getting the files in any faster.

I am creating quicktime files using RedAlert and then Metacheater to create and EDL and then import into avid as DNxHD 36. I've noticed though that the files in Avid look about a stop brighter than the original quicktimes?

Is there any way around this?

Thanks

Fiona

[M Most]

Is there a faster workflow? I can't seem to get faster than about 7 times real time into AVID?


Sure. Use standard def for the offline. Exporting using Redcine to 720x480 standard def, using Avid DV codec, on an 8 proc Mac is faster than real time. With Avid's new XML tools in MC3.0, you can then go back and create a pull list for the HD exports when you're done cutting. You can then bring them in and relink by time code.

[MichaelP]

Make sure you are set to 601/709 in the Import settings for color space. if it set to RGB it will raise blacks if anything is below 16|16|16 RGB.

[Paul Rosckes]

I have gotten 3.2x real time importing into an octo Mac. Make sure you are on fast drives when doing so as the read/write can add some hefty overhead. I was going from _H to DNxHD36.

Michael

I want to be able to use Compressor to batch the _H proxies to DNxHD36. But I also want to do a quick color-correction in REDALERT first. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to generate color-graded proxies from REDALERT (everything always comes out with the ungraded gamma curve).

Is this even possible? Or do I need to render to an intermediate codec first?

Also, I tried REDCINE, but the codec options for DNxHD were very cryptic (low, normal, high, lossless), and they ALL produced QT files with a 176Mbs bit-rate which is not usable.

It seems like every current Avid workflow is plagued with roadblocks.

Thanks,
Paul

[MichaelP]

Many of the workflows have issues - it is a bit if a maze right now to get ones that work. It is a bit easier on Mac. RedCine defaults to 115 in NTSC related formats and 175 in PAL related formats. Hopefully things will change soon. I know a lot of it is in the works, but is about lining up Avid, RED, Assimilate engineering roadmaps and priorities.

Michael

[Paul Rosckes]

Many of the workflows have issues - it is a bit if a maze right now to get ones that work. It is a bit easier on Mac. RedCine defaults to 115 in NTSC related formats and 175 in PAL related formats. Hopefully things will change soon. I know a lot of it is in the works, but is about lining up Avid, RED, Assimilate engineering roadmaps and priorities.

Michael

Thanks for the reply Michael. I guess if I want color-corrected dallies in DNxHD36, it will have to be a two-step process. I'll probably just go out or REDCINE as uncompressed 1080P and either batch those in Compressor or import them directly into the Avid.

-Paul