red camera/persons rate

[Greg Greene]

just curious what the rate for a red camera person would be per day?

best


gt

[J. Bernard Vallon]

When I'm fully decked out (lenses drives and sweat), i hope to fetch at least $1k/day

[donatello b]

depends on what type of production (commercials, doc;s etc) & area you work out of ?

low/med/hi budgets - in commercials or in corporate or in Doc's or ENG etc all could have different rates ...

i only hear about commercial rates with a min of 2500 day - no equipment - size of camera doesn't affect rate .... i don't get very many calls for ENG/corporate/doc's or SD video - the calls i have received in those areas tend to pay 1200-1500 day including camera package ( usually SD video) - i can't match those rates when camera is included ...

my 1st impression on RED&cameraperson at 1000 day is = too low - seems RED with lens etc should be min of 1000 day without cameraperson BUT you have to price yourself at a rate that your area can support to keep you busy to pay the bills ..

i was planning to use Red 103 as a personal camera for my projects and friends projects .. my tax man told me last week that if i want to write off the camera the IRS is not going to go for 60K deduction and then see no income generated from camera - so i have to rethink the renting ...

[Jim Arthurs]

When I'm fully decked out (lenses drives and sweat), i hope to fetch at least $1k/day

You can do that with an HVX package... :) I'd aim higher...

Regards...

[R. Gonzales]

You can do that with an HVX package... :) I'd aim higher...

Regards...

I agree, with a matt box, Hvx, battreries, P2 cards, P2 store, Tri-pod + myself, fetches 1200.00 + per day.:biggrin:

Consider a full PL lens package to rent (18mm, 25mm, 35mm, 50mm, 65mm, 85mm, 100,mm) can cost between 600.00-900.00 per day. A fully outfitted Red without lenses should rent for 1000.00 to 1500.00 per day. Then you would add rental for a Tripod and other accessories. I intend to send my Red out with a tech to insure it doesn't come back broken.

Method

[Paul Hazlett]

the rates of a varicam are around 1000 for the camera and then a lense on the east coast. thats just the camera and there are plenty around.

I will be going out on all my reds jobs, If not shooting then as tech. with a
package price of 2k which will include computer to unload shot footage from
Ram drive or hard drive.

Based on current rates here and the cost of red package, I think its a fair
deal for all.

I dont want to soak anybody because its new, and I probably could due to
what I hope will be simply stunning images, but I want people to get hooked
on the look so I make a little less than the top at first but in the long run you have cllients coming back on a regular basis.

[Jim Arthurs]

RED owner/operators will be faced with the same issues as HVX owner/operators are/were... the client asking, "How the heck can I use this footage and how will you give it to me?".

The difference being that the RED client will probably be willing to jump through a few more hoops to get the end quality that RED will deliver.

Shooter/IT Tech/Workflow Advisor = large day rates...

[Dan Blanchett]

my tax man told me last week that if i want to write off the camera the IRS is not going to go for 60K deduction and then see no income generated from camera - so i have to rethink the renting ...

I've started several businesses and wrote off quite a bit without posting a profit in the same year. Unless the US tax law has changed the last time I checked, with a sole proprietorship you have 5 years to turn a profit in 3 of them...or at least prove you were trying to. That latter bit is the key. So those personal projects can very easily be legitimate projects that just failed to earn money so long as you document them correctly. I recommend drawing up a simple budget for each project to at least give the appearance that you are approaching them as serious business ventures. You can also create a simple business plan detailing how you plan to earn money with this camera, and include information about those projects. If the IRS came knocking (highly doubtful) then you can prove you were trying to produce something for profit--and that should be adequate. Not that I'm trying to dissuade you from renting out your RED. Could be a good source of income, but it's also another type of business with its own risks (and effort) that should not be underestimated.

Of course I'm not a tax expert, so proceed with the usual caution, that's just been my experience and I've had very savvy accountants. NAB is great write off, by the way...

[sorry if I'm straying off topic]

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Not trying to give tax advice here... I'm still arguing with my accountant over a few things, but anyway. It's hard to just write off a purchase of this camera or anything else in this price bracket because it is a sizable chunk of money and because with the purchase you're acquiring a tangible asset. You could probably finance the camera and write-off some of the interest as business epenses or even a loss. The write-off is there if you can generate enough taxable revenue from the camera or related business to offset the purchase price in some way. So you spend $50K on a camera package and generate $500K using it, you might justify a write-off of a significant portion of the cost and set-up. But simply buying it and then doing indie projects while you work a day job somewhere isn't going to get you a write-off because the camera itself has a value of its own. And it's something that will depreciate over time, which your accountant will probably want to place on some sort of schedule for a certain number of years. This is where I butt heads with my accountant. He thinks computers have a viable lifespan of 7+ years before they depreciate out... I'm thinking more like 1.5 to 2 years because I cycle them that fast in most cases. But the guy just doesn't comprehend how a high-end graphics/video workstation is different than an office PC running Excel all day long.

I haven't decided if I'm going to try and rent out my RED system or not. I think I can keep myself busy enough with both client projects and my own indie stuff that renting it won't make sense. Hopefully that is the case... If so, then I'll try to buy another RED down the road maybe next year and have a second camera that can be rented out on occasion.

[Dan Blanchett]

But simply buying it and then doing indie projects while you work a day job somewhere isn't going to get you a write-off because the camera itself has a value of its own. And it's something that will depreciate over time, which your accountant will probably want to place on some sort of schedule for a certain number of years.

Excellent point. I was thinking about the profit side of the coin, but the other side is the loss and what exactly can be written off; and you're right, equipment has its own rules that will need to be "negotiated" with a good, willing accountant...

[Dominic Jones]

UK tax law info here, so may be completely different, but certainly on this side of the pond you will find that Jeff is spot on - it's a capital asset that depreciates over time, and you can claim the "loss" of money from your capital asset's depreciation in that year against your tax liability.

Interestingly, Jeff, the tax laws here in the UK have just been changed so that you can opt to depreciate your computer equipment's entire worth in the first year - so it looks like some of the tax office bods are starting to realise that Moore's law exists!!

[donatello b]

in US - currently you can write up to 108K in current tax year for new production/post equipment ...

i'll decide after my next meeting with accountant in May if i'm going to go for the Reds being used in hobby or use it in business ... or maybe use 1 for hobby & other for business ???

[Curran Giddens]

Since we have gone off topic...

I just incorporated about a week and a half ago.
I was thinking about writing-off a 25% depreciation on the $60k worth of gear I will be purchasing this year. I plan on renting out my camera until the end of this year. I am also going to start getting paid for my freelance scanning and typesetting jobs under my business name. I, umm... I mean my business, should earn enough to justify the write-off.

The main reason for me to get paid for my freelance jobs under my production business is not because of the write-off, it is for health insurance reasons. Because my business is a corporation that is a separate entity, my personal income will be very little. This way I don't have to worry about losing my insurance. Next year, after I transfer the gear/assets to myself, I will probably include my friend/editor as a partner in the company, and then hire a few more people.

[TimPipher]

"equipment has its own rules that will need to be "negotiated" with a good, willing accountant..."

I think you'll find there's no negotiation involved. The IRS sets depreciation schedules that you and the accountant have no control over.

[Michael Hastings]

TimPipher is right the IRS will pretty much dictate the depreciation schedule - I think this type of stuff is considered 5 year property. Also the previous poster is right that you can accelerate depreciation for a total write off in the first up to a maximum of 108K. Also, if you make a serious effort (and particularly if you get reasonably serious revenue - i.e. at least a few thousand) you should not have to worry that it is a hobby business as this purchase is well beyond what a normal hobbyist would use.

In Florida we have a sales tax exemption available for production that you can apply for. Also be aware that although you probably won't be charged sales tax with the camera, since it comes from California, but you are still legally obligated to pay it in most states so it would be good to check if a similar exemption is available in your state - it usually flies under the radar with smaller out of state purchases but more and more states are starting to follow up on it.


Since we have gone off topic...

I just incorporated about a week and a half ago.
I was thinking about writing-off a 25% depreciation on the $60k worth of gear I will be purchasing this year. I plan on renting out my camera until the end of this year. I am also going to start getting paid for my freelance scanning and typesetting jobs under my business name. I, umm... I mean my business, should earn enough to justify the write-off.

The main reason for me to get paid for my freelance jobs under my production business is not because of the write-off, it is for health insurance reasons. Because my business is a corporation that is a separate entity, my personal income will be very little. This way I don't have to worry about losing my insurance. Next year, after I transfer the gear/assets to myself, I will probably include my friend/editor as a partner in the company, and then hire a few more people.

[Curran Giddens]

That accelerated depreciation would be great for me, especially since I want to transfer the camera/assets out of the company before I include any partners.
I'm gonna pay MA sales tax for my RED package. Hopefully, as soon as the IRS sees that, they move along to someone else....

[Mike the beginner]

UK tax law info here, so may be completely different, but certainly on this side of the pond you will find that Jeff is spot on - it's a capital asset that depreciates over time, and you can claim the "loss" of money from your capital asset's depreciation in that year against your tax liability.

Interestingly, Jeff, the tax laws here in the UK have just been changed so that you can opt to depreciate your computer equipment's entire worth in the first year - so it looks like some of the tax office bods are starting to realise that Moore's law exists!!

Maximum 50% wrote off in first year and 25% in year two and three. Thats what i have read recently.

Dominic, bang on with depreciating a computer in the first year. That is a new development.

Just wish there was some way round the VAT but the more you look at it the more it just goes round in one big circle. You save VAT by re-claiming it but if you sell the camera or you generate income you have to add VAT. they get you either way, so better to stay legal:sad:

Mike the beginner