The ONE killer feature -

[Mark L. Pederson]

Okay -

I'll say this once and let it go -

Of everything I could ask for in EPIC - here is ONE killer feature I want above ALL.

1 to 1 pixel zoom for focus - INDEPENDENT of EVF - WHILE SHOOTING.

So, while rolling, the AC can punch in - pixel for pixel - check, adjust, etc.

Yeah .. I know ... separate scaling engine, frame buffer, etc. - but it would be the soooooo kick ass.

My second request would be to take ALL buttons off the back of the camera and put 'em where they belong -

[Shawn Nelson]

Um, why can't we have this in Build 17 of Red One?

[Paul Hazlett]

Okay -

I'll say this once and let it go -

Of everything I could ask for in EPIC - here is ONE killer feature I want above ALL.

1 to 1 pixel zoom for focus - INDEPENDENT of EVF - WHILE SHOOTING.

So, while rolling, the AC can punch in - pixel for pixel - check, adjust, etc.

Yeah .. I know ... separate scaling engine, frame buffer, etc. - but it would be the soooooo kick ass.

My second request would be to take ALL buttons off the back of the camera and put 'em where they belong -

I second the second request. operator side buttons and LCD would be the
best thing since sliced bread....alright maybe not that great but still one of my top three requests. I am working on the left side and being as lazy as I am, gettting to the back of the camera can be a chore.

[Mark L. Pederson]

gettting to the back of the camera can be a chore.

more than a chore ... inefficient and counter-productive.

[Mark L. Pederson]

Um, why can't we have this in Build 17 of Red One?

I am not an engineer - but from what I have been told (not by RED) - it would be no small feet to do this - you need to have every frame in an independent buffer and scale it idependently - it's a hardware thing - and i am going to assume the firepower to pull that off is NOT in the RED ONE -

[Shawn Nelson]

I am not an engineer - but from what I have been told (not by RED) - it would be no small feet to do this - you need to have every frame in an independent buffer and scale it idependently - it's a hardware thing - and i am going to assume the firepower to pull that off is NOT in the RED ONE -

They should be able to make another Red LCD that could do 1-1 scaling of its own will, apart from the Red processors. Remember, Red is supposed to be modular.

[Mark L. Pederson]

They should be able to make another Red LCD that could do 1-1 scaling of its own will, apart from the Red processors. Remember, Red is supposed to be modular.

But Shawn ... I want to see actual pixels from the sensor - NOT an upscaled downrez ... signal coming into the LCD is already down scaled -

[Harry Clark]

I agree Mark and Phaz.
Red Team, let's not skimp on the processing power. There are a few pros here that WILL PAY MORE for a more substantial camera.
Each output should have its own scaling engine so that you can show data, or not, or scale, or not, to EVERY output. Independently.
Also, let's either have a global shutter (not sure if there is such a thing in CMOS) or put some balls behind the chip, as in divide up the chip in quadrants or eighths, each with its own processor (like the D-20) so that there is NO SKEW and strobes work.
SLEEP MODE.
Ability to read voltage and thus have a battery remaining bar with any battery out there (like every film and HD camera that already exists)
STAINLESS LENS MOUNT.
Controls on the "smart side" rather than the rear.
Remote control (wired is fine) to access menus when camera is remote (on a crane, etc.)
Let's really go for it with Epic! We're soooo close with Red One! ;)
Cheers,
Harry

[Joe D'Arcy]

While we're at it 200fps please.

[donatello b]

am i the only one that's OK with the buttons & the info LCD on rear of camera ?
Red One - i would not want all that stuff on rear of camera on the operator side nor the AC side ... i find either side has problems and i find the rear a OK compromise ...
after i step up to the EFV i really dislike having to move (period) ...i really don't care if the AC has to change a setting or if they just want to check focus ( use the 8.4" & 17" monitor we rented ) ..STAY away from my side of camera once i'm there !!
leave all the main buttons on back ( where i can get to them easy if need be ) and just give me 2-4 buttons that i can assign on my side !! ...please don't put them on AC side .. i don't want to have to get off my buttalks to look at the other side of the camera ...

[Finner]

am i the only one that's OK with the buttons & the info LCD on rear of camera ?
Red One - i would not want all that stuff on rear of camera on the operator side nor the AC side ... i find either side has problems and i find the rear a OK compromise ...
after i step up to the EFV i really dislike having to move (period) ...i really don't care if the AC has to change a setting or if they just want to check focus ( use the 8.4" & 17" monitor we rented ) ..STAY away from my side of camera once i'm there !!
leave all the main buttons on back ( where i can get to them easy if need be ) and just give me 2-4 buttons that i can assign on my side !! ...please don't put them on AC side .. i don't want to have to get off my buttalks to look at the other side of the camera ...

This makes very little sense. Your side? The AC side? You do know that 99.5% of the time focus pullers work off the same side as the operator and only move to the dummy side when absolutely needed? This is the reason that every camera on the market has the info and controls on the smart side, every camera that is except the red one. Having the user menus at the back of the camera is unfortunately a major flaw that causes a lot of issues,

[Martin Weiss]

As much as I dislike having to disagree with Finner, but I must say "Huh?" When I worked as Focus Puller, I almost always worked from the non-operator side. As did 99.4% of my focus pulling friends. Doing a highly scientific Google picture research suggests that most 1.ACs prefer it that way.
As operator I also prefer it that way. Personal space and stuff.

Couldn't it be possible to have controls on both sides?

Buttons and LCDs aren't the bits that make a camera expensive...

[Nick Gardner]

As much as I dislike having to disagree with Finner, but I must say "Huh?" When I worked as Focus Puller, I almost always worked from the non-operator side. As did 99.4% of my focus pulling friends. Doing a highly scientific Google picture research suggests that most 1.ACs prefer it that way.
As operator I also prefer it that way. Personal space and stuff.


This has not been my experience ever. Not even in the EU.

sorry,

Nick

[Finner]

As much as I dislike having to disagree with Finner, but I must say "Huh?" When I worked as Focus Puller, I almost always worked from the non-operator side. As did 99.4% of my focus pulling friends. Doing a highly scientific Google picture research suggests that most 1.ACs prefer it that way.
As operator I also prefer it that way. Personal space and stuff.

Couldn't it be possible to have controls on both sides?

Buttons and LCDs aren't the bits that make a camera expensive...

Maybe things are done different in Norway? (My herritage is Norweigen). I am an IATSE camera member. The first feature I worked on was "Unforgiven" and I have worked on many features and commercials/music vids in LA, Europe (Shanghi Knights, Blade 2) and Canada since that first film. In that time I have worked with and met hundreds of focus pullers and not one of them choose to work on the dummy side unless due to some issue was unable to work from the smart side.

Hell it's the reason that Arri FF units allow you to take off the dummy side follow focus and throw it in your AKS until you need it and are forced to move to the dummy side but the smart side of the FF is permanently attached.

There are many advantages to the AC working on the smart side of the camera, all the info is there, the swing out matte box swings away from you and not into you giving room to swap lenses, some lenses only have marks on one side so they are right side up on the smart side but upside down on the dummy side and most importantly an operator and focus puller are a team and the Op can whisper info to the focus puller durring a dialogue shot when the focus puller is working on the smart side but can not if the focus puller is on the dummy side. The whole film accessories and system of loading and every other thing I can think of is built and set out to have both the OP and AC to work off the smart side.

All in all though this is just a very strange discussion. Like I say I have never met 1 single focus puller that chooses to pull from the dummy side if they can pull from the smart side. Maybe it's a video thing because it is definately not the film AC system.

[Martin Weiss]

That's the fun thing about life, you always learn new things. One minute you take something for granted, the other you learn that there are many people doing it in another way. (I AC'd mostly in London and a bit in Norway. Mostly 16mm and 35mm; Arri 535, 435, SR1,2,3 and sometimes even the BL, Aaton and the lovely Moviecam Superamerica, heavy beast though it is. I was one of the very first ACs in London to get the Skillset qualification for Focus Pullers) You might be surprised when you do a Google on Focus Pulling (http://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=focus%20puller&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi) just how many do pull focus from the "dumb" side. I was surprised on how many do it from the "smart" side. We all learn :)

Here's me on a recent shoot (with a prototype two-digit k camera I am NDA'd on):
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_3/images/John-Lasher-Interview-Opasniye-Povoroty-Filming.jpg ;)


When on a crane or dolly, would you also sit on the same side as the operator? Some grips I knew would have given me a smack on the head, others not ;)

I guess the place you pull focus from comes down to personal preference of the operator. I just found it easier from the "dumb" side, but I do see your points as well. Anyway, I've stopped focus pulling many years ago, and I think we can all agree that it is best to operate a camera from the "smart" side :)

As an operator, I usually use both eyes. Here I like to have a clear field of view, and not a focus puller in front of me. But again, all down to personal preference. There's no wrong or right. Let's continue this discussion in another place, preferably with a cold, dark wheatbear in front of me.

So... let's get back on track. Placement of camera controls.

How about this: Full set of controls and display on the operator side. (I agree that the rear placement on the Red One is awkward, though I do see the thinking behind it.)

Then, as an accessory, the AC gets a LCD monitor that has a touch screen. This one is mainly used as monitor - with the ability to zoom in to 1:1 pixel scale. And you can use the display to control all functions of the camera, plus third-party equipment, like the Birger.

That would give the AC added control, without adding another box to plug in. It would also be very flexible, as the AC decides where the display/controls are, not the other way round.

[A. Bastaki]

120 fps 4k.

focus pullers have been on my left and right. lefties perferred right... righties perferred left., though it depends mostly on how i move the camera and how easily they can move with it. so if im rotating the camera towards my left (as the actor is facing to his right) the focus puller finds it better to be on the right side.

1:1 focus thing... where i get to the see the image for itself so that i can focus properly. I want this on RED build 17... it is absolutely crucial.
________
Honda Cr125M History (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_CR125M)

[Paul Leeming]

How about resurrecting a concept someone Photoshopped here a long time ago when Red One was in development - a control module that is connected by a data cable such that you can hae it in place OR move it to wherever you're comfortable with using a rail clamp or whatever? then everyone's happy. :) Imagine the round puck shape of the Red One's control panel, but removable, and you've got the idea.

Paul

[Steve White]

Buttons and LCDs aren't the bits that make a camera expensive...
I don't have any experience in camera design, but in all the electronics I've built, buttons, connectors, controls and any other form of interface are a significant fraction of the cost. Not only is each knob/widget expensive as a component, but needs to be designed into the chassis and wiring.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

This makes very little sense. Your side? The AC side? You do know that 99.5% of the time focus pullers work off the same side as the operator and only move to the dummy side when absolutely needed? This is the reason that every camera on the market has the info and controls on the smart side, every camera that is except the red one. Having the user menus at the back of the camera is unfortunately a major flaw that causes a lot of issues,

Yes it should be on the operator side, that's were both guys are most of the time. The wifi control should be like an ARRI RCU. It could be "connected" on the other side for AC when he's there (by hanging it or clicking it onto the rods - for example). It would also be great if the WIFI ctrl could do ramping in shot just as RCU. NOW! I would have no problem in paying xtra for such a feature (as a RCU) and I think that many EPIC buyers are with me on that.

I also think that EPIC should have the ergonomics in consideration. Like ARRICAM etc. If we could make a small "bump" in the back and then maybe ET does a shoulder "plate" that is moulded for the shoulder. That plates slides into the base plate. Batteries could be shaped for the "shoulder" as well, just as an ARRI magazine on the Lite is now. So make a battery/ cradle mount to have that shape (although make sure it's hotswap). This is something that has to be tested of course, so the balance is correct, but maybe it could be just a "half bump" on both parts - like the 435. then the battery/cradle could be adjustable for position so it can balance to heavier lenses?

All things should be with adjustable handles (or similar) instead of allen key bolts. If it has to be hex bolts, please make it one size only.

The focus hook should be on top of the cam, so the tape measure can go over the mattebox.

and please make protection over the connections. With so many connections (like USB etc) it's great if you can have rubber plugs or something similar to protect them. I shoot a lot with dust etc and end up taping my RED all the time.

This are my wishes and I hope some of them have given any ideas for you guys.


Edit: Ohhh and unless it's patented maybe we should have a sunglass holder like some cameras hahahahaha


regards,


Fredrik

[M Most]

Okay -

1 to 1 pixel zoom for focus - INDEPENDENT of EVF - WHILE SHOOTING.

So, while rolling, the AC can punch in - pixel for pixel - check, adjust, etc.


You do realize that to do this with a Bayer sensor, the image would, by definition, be black and white and displayed pre-Bayer?

I understand what you're saying, but full 4K debayering in real time is, in all likelihood, not practical at this point.

[Peter Majtan]

How about resurrecting a concept someone Photoshopped here a long time ago when Red One was in development - a control module that is connected by a data cable such that you can hae it in place OR move it to wherever you're comfortable with using a rail clamp or whatever? then everyone's happy. :) Imagine the round puck shape of the Red One's control panel, but removable, and you've got the idea.

Paul

Now here is some intelligent and doable proposal...

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Ohh I forgot one thing. Maybe a adjustable/ collapsable carrying handle (kind of like ARRI). That way it can be adjusted to preference for shoot?

It could be fixed for the side and then adjusted with levers so either it's 90 degrees out on the side or 90 degrees to the center of the camera. Or something??? Just another thought.


Fredrik

[Jeff Kilgroe]

How about resurrecting a concept someone Photoshopped here a long time ago when Red One was in development - a control module that is connected by a data cable such that you can hae it in place OR move it to wherever you're comfortable with using a rail clamp or whatever? then everyone's happy. :) Imagine the round puck shape of the Red One's control panel, but removable, and you've got the idea.

Paul

Already been discussed in another thread. EPIC is announced as having WiFi control. Hopefully this is our salvation and we can have a modular control surface for the camera that can be placed anywhere we wish, up to 100ft from the camera.

But for physical buttons on the camera, I'd like to see all the controls on the "smart side" and maybe just the power button on the rear. Cable connections should be on the "dumb side" and offset and angled to route cables to the rear. ...Just my thinking.

I also want to see the 1:1 pixel zoom!

[Joseph Ward]

Now here is some intelligent and doable proposal...

I was going to say that!:blink: No really! lol This concept would be great.

[Mitch Gross]

You do realize that to do this with a Bayer sensor, the image would, by definition, be black and white and displayed pre-Bayer?

I understand what you're saying, but full 4K debayering in real time is, in all likelihood, not practical at this point.

We can do it on the Phantom 65.

[Mark L. Pederson]

We can do it on the Phantom 65.

Yup.

And Mike - what I am asking for is not the entire image in 4K - it's a window to match the resolution of the LCD. And you can select the window area via the joystick. And black and white would be just fine!

[M Most]

We can do it on the Phantom 65.

The Phantom isn't trying to do compression at the same time.

Of course, I also don't know how many (if any) parallel processors are in the Red.

[I Bloom]

Yup.

And Mike - what I am asking for is not the entire image in 4K - it's a window to match the resolution of the LCD. And you can select the window area via the joystick. And black and white would be just fine!

Love to see this on Epic.

But I also hope to see it on RED ONE. Just not in realtime.

IBloom

[Mitch Gross]

The Phantom isn't trying to do compression at the same time.

Of course, I also don't know how many (if any) parallel processors are in the Red.

So?

Parallel system in the Phantom is one to record raw data and the other to send out a realtime de-Bayer. Don't see why on Epic it couldn't record to REDCODE instead of uncompressed, but the split happens before then.

[Peter Majtan]

I agree with Offhollywood - You could just take the green signal and show B&W crop with minimum processing - all You really need for focusing...

[roryhinds]

I never thought 1 to 1 wouldn't be available on RED.

Its a must have for sure.

[Hrvoje Simic]

My second request would be to take ALL buttons off the back of the camera and put 'em where they belong -

Maybe on a external mini touch-screen monitor/controller ?

[Paul Hazlett]

But for physical buttons on the camera, I'd like to see all the controls on the "smart side" and maybe just the power button on the rear. Cable connections should be on the "dumb side" and offset and angled to route cables to the rear. ...Just my thinking.

I also want to see the 1:1 pixel zoom!

To streamline things I would like to see all connection on the back, that
way you dont have to worry about elbows on your cables and can even
multisnake them easily. Dumb side is finem but I think back might be better ergonomically

[Paul Hazlett]

I agree with Offhollywood - You could just take the green signal and show B&W crop with minimum processing - all You really need for focusing...

a Black and white one to one crop sounds like a good idea to me. I have not needed color in my VF for 20 years, its nice but if I can get a better focus
I will take that.

[Lachlan Ward]

Why doesn't some one knock together a control panel that plugs in via USB that you can strap to the side of the cam that lets the AC operate it all from the side. I know it is a prig having another thing that you have to attach but then it makes the camera great for everything/one. I like it at the back for shooting birds and pornography. Leaning around the side when you are the one an only camera op to check everything is a painful turd (same thing 1AC has to deal with all day long).

So there, make a bloody removable screen/control panel and jam it in the USB. Then every SOB is happy.

[PaulClements]

Only just noticed this thread after posting in the main forum.

How hard can it be to crop the sensor in the same way it does for 2K? I agree with Rory, this is something I've never expected not to see on the RedOne.

I'm sure Epic will have such a feature, I only hope that it isn't omitted from the RedOne as another reason to upgrade.

Not only is 1:1 invaluable for focusing during shots but it has great merit for collimating the mount. Given the Redone has from day one wanted to allow it's users to interchange mounts having this function should be a priority in my opinion.

Paul

[Steve Freebairn]

The touchscreen control idea is a good one, I'd also like to see controls move to the smart side of the camera. I don't see why an accessory can't be made that would give you control of the Red One from whatever side you want. The supergrip had like 8 buttons on it, why couldn't an accessory have a joystick and a few other buttons, then it could be used with the monitor to control the camera.

[John Leahy]

I agree with Kinobairn.

Crews have asked us to pass on that the one thing focus pullers want is for the LCD and controls to be mounted on the camera left side of the body. At the very least some condensed hot button controls if not the whole panel.

As the focus puller normally works to the side of the camera it is awkward asking the DP/Operator to constantly move during the day to view, make or change specs on the camera.

I think this camera is moving towards being the ARRI 435 or ST equivalent for digital capture and on most film camera's the essential controls are mounted on the camera's side.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Touchscreen = bad, IMO.

I like tactile buttons so I can find the button I need without looking.

[Hrvoje Simic]

Touchscreen = bad, IMO.

I like tactile buttons so I can find the button I need without looking.


I'd go this route

Prioritized control - buttons and knobs

Camera menus and settings - touchscreen


This tiny knob for menu navigation is killing me.