Red one and wildlife cinematography thread? [Archive]

Denis Buhot

05-31-2008, 04:07 AM

After exchanging a few private mails with some of you in the same specific field, after reading post from Lauri, Isaac and others, I think it might be interesting to stard a thread on that topic rather than search for scattered related posts all over the forum. The red one seems virtually all we need : build 16 looks really terrific, the nikon mount looks great and still lenses give jaw-dropping results, while modular design must adapt to almost any tricky situation... Yet, what's your experience in the field ? How do you deal with the current limitations of the Red one (whatever you came across when really using it). Besides, what's good for us should apply to efp/eng usage, too. And after all, joined forces might move Jim and the red team to pity us, if not hopefully distract them from the overall image quality issue ! The sooner, the better we can use this terrific imaging tool.

Steve Gibby

05-31-2008, 07:57 AM

There's a good thread about wildlife production on the EFP/ENG for RED forum.
Link: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10263

Our Dangerous Passage Productions crews, including myself, are in Alaska right now for five months of wildlife production, including multiple television programs and two movies. We're using our seven RED ONE cameras, plus our Sony HDC1500 (in our Cineflex gimbal system), our Sony F900, and both of our Sony EX1 cameras.

Dangerous Passage has also had a crew (including Ken Corben) in Africa for the past three weeks shooting wildlife with RED ONE and an EX1.

When I'm back on the California Central Coast briefly between Alaska trips, as I am now, I regularly shoot wildlife with RED ONE. My kit for that (and in Alaska): RED ONE, RED Drive, RED EVF on ET EVF mount, Canon FD 150-600 zoom or RED 300 tele (with Optex 2x if needed), Miller Arrow 55 tripod with ET ARRI V plate, RED batteries. Most of this goes in my Tamrac 5258 backpack, the rest in my hands - then I hike out into the wilderness with it by myself, or sometimes with a production assistant, to shoot.

Most images I shoot are 4k/16x9/29.97, although for fast motion subject matter where I want slo motion, I shoot 3k/16x9/59.94.

I shot all of the footage sequences currently on the Mammoth HD Animals/Wildlife section:
http://www.mammothhd.com/XRED1/REDL03/MHD_REDL03.html

One of my production partners (Ken Corben) shot all of the Ocean Life/Underwater footage clips on Mammoth HD:
http://www.mammothhd.com/XRED1/REDL16/MHD_REDL16.html

I also shot many of the other footage sequences in the Mammoth HD RED Library, particularly in the categories of Landscapes/Scenics, Nature, Sports, Locations/Travel – US, Sunrise/Sunset, Other/Misc, Water/Waves
Link: http://www.mammothhd.com/MHD_RED4.html

I shot the footage sequences in the Mammoth HD RED Library with a big “SG” in the clip title.

We usually shoot to RED Drives, but for helicopter or small boat sequences we shoot to RED CF cards. Backing up the footage nightly to drives and LTO tapes is a necessary ritual.

In summary, my associates and me have been doing nature, wildlife, and adventure travel production with RED ONE since last August. RED ONE is an excellent camera system for these genres of production, as IMO will EPIC and Scarlet be when they’re available. We’ll buy multiple EPIC and Scarlet, and keep some of our RED ONE cameras too.

Mike Van Laanen

05-31-2008, 08:21 AM

Steve Gibby

05-31-2008, 09:02 AM

Gibby, I read the other thread and noticed that you seem to shoot alot in the 16:9 mode verses the 2:1. Doesn't that create problems in post flow? Could you explain how you are processing the 16:9 footage for broadcast?

Most of our productions are destined for HDTV, thus acquisition in 16:9 makes the best sense. 16:9 is a bigger frame then 2:1, so storage and backup needs are increased. The QT proxy playback problem with 16:9 is a headache for us though. We can see the top half of the frame of the proxy, but the bottom half is psychedelic garble. That has left us with having to open all the files in REDCINE, which handles the 16:9 fine. We'll be happy when the 16:9 files are fully functional in RED Alert, because we like to check each day's shots quickly at the end of the day using the QT proxies, and then delete the shots we don't want, or ones that didn't work, before we go to REDCINE with the "keepers".

I'm alternately producing, directing, and shooting right now, and our post production staff in Alaska and California are handling the post-processing of the r3d files. Our editing is currently on FCP and SCRATCH. I believe there is no problem handling RED 16:9 files on either of those. Our r3d files for broadcast are given a one light in REDCINE, then output to ProRes 4:2:2 for editing in FCP, where they also receive further correction in Color.

Mike Van Laanen

05-31-2008, 09:24 AM

Thanks Gibby

Ernesto Salvador

05-31-2008, 06:59 PM

Gibby have you done any shooting in Galapagos with the RED? Just asking cause I live in Ecuador

Steve Gibby

05-31-2008, 07:28 PM

Gibby have you done any shooting in Galapagos with the RED? Just asking cause I live in Ecuador

Not yet, but I'd like to shoot in the Galapagos some day. Some of the HD footage I've seen from there was excellent.

Since last August we've shot with our REDs in Hawaii, Alaska, Africa, the Caribbean, Mexico, Canada, and many areas of the continental USA (Rocky Mountains, Pacific Coast, etc.).

Bang WOW Bang

06-01-2008, 12:31 AM

Not yet, but I'd like to shoot in the Galapagos some day. Some of the HD footage I've seen from there was excellent.

Since last August we've shot with our REDs in Hawaii, Alaska, Africa, the Caribbean, Mexico, Canada, and many areas of the continental USA (Rocky Mountains, Pacific Coast, etc.).

Hi Steve,

do you have any Stereoscopic 3D 4K content ? Or 2K 4:4:4 from 4K R3D files ?

Please PM me on this sector.

Stewart
HKG

Russ Fill

06-01-2008, 01:04 AM

Mark Toia

06-01-2008, 01:47 AM

I'm off to west centeral Africa next week with my camera for a wild life doco. I have a while there be for the shoot starts and I haven't really ran my camera through many test as I would like to yet. Any do's and dont's for the camera in humid heat. And did you notice any (break in period)? Should I bring a few cold packs??? Or did things run smooth for the camera from out of the box? I really hate using new gear with out long use but I really have no choice as I have had to push this job about as long as I can waiting for my camera. Any suggestions would be helpful. I'm not totally nutz I do have a friend with another camera I could have some one bring to me if I started to have problems.

I just did 5 countries in 9 days, hot! days on a beach, wet cold days in between skyscrapers,
Not a single glinch. (minus the normal build 15 issues)
We found just putting a white cotton towel over the camera kept the sun off the black casing kept the camera cool.
A silver heat blanket will do the same.

all good

Lauri Kettunen

06-01-2008, 01:51 AM

... the 16:9 mode verses the 2:1. Doesn't that create problems in post flow?

Decided to stick on the 2:1 format once ran into "codec error" problems with the 16:9 mode. When shooting with wide angle lenses, small apertures, and if the image involves a lot of details, the codec fails for some reason in 16:9 mode. Never had the same problem with 2:1 format.

What comes to Denis' question of experiences, I would sum up Red One in wildlife filming as follows:

Pro
-Excellent image quality
-Versatile system that can be adapted and modified to many needs
-4 audio channels
-High speed modes

Con (as now with build 15)
-Weigth
-Power consumption
-Bit long booting up time
-Slightly instable system implying the camera may occasionally be whimsical like all computers.

However, as all the specs may change, the new builds may include a sleep mode, and in addition, the slight instability may disappear with software updates.

Mark Thorpe

06-01-2008, 06:27 AM

Denis Buhot

06-01-2008, 06:59 AM

Good idea to get a wildlife thread going. How about suggesting this in the REDUser User Groups Section?? Just a thought.

As for wildlife I would imagine this camera would be best suited for managed shots in controlled environments, aquarium, holding pens etc etc. When Scarlet comes out it would make mre sense given the form factor to have that as a field camera and incorporate the footage in the final project.

Cheers,
Mark.

What about interchangeable lenses ? We have to be able to use focal lengths up to 600 or 800 mm, ESPECIALLY in uncontrolled environments and when it comes to shy/dangerous species. Sleep mode and badly protected connectors left aside (true limitations...) , why do you thing real wild environments should rule out the red one ? Crew size ? Anything else ?

Steve Gibby

06-01-2008, 08:02 AM

Our crews are in Alaska all Spring, Summer, and Fall using several REDs in uncontrolled and controlled circumstances. Using RED ONE in the field for wildlife production takes planning and forethought - and there are some workarounds. For real mobile wildlife work, physical fitness is also critical. We hike all around boats and on land with heavy loads, setup, shoot, then move to other locations. Being in good physical shape really helps.

We use RED ONE in both controlled and uncontrolled environments. The images are stellar, so IMO the extra work is well worth it.

Lauri Kettunen

06-01-2008, 09:01 AM

We use RED ONE in both controlled and uncontrolled environments. The images are stellar, so IMO the extra work is well worth it.

Agree, I also use the camera in uncontrolled environments. It works better than any other camera I've used, thanks to the large dynamic range.

Denis Buhot

06-01-2008, 09:31 AM

For real mobile wildlife work, physical fitness is also critical. We hike all around boats and on land with heavy loads, setup, shoot, then move to other locations. Being in good physical shape really helps.

Yes, it helps a lot... BTW, how do you go around the boot-up time/no sleep mode issue ? Does your typical work not require waiting for hours with camera on, just to capture one specific shot (some wildlife shots really don't) ? Or do you just hike with 8-10 batteries, or an anton-bauer huge, 11 kg, 6hr duration new thing.. it looks hardly possible for one single person with food and the rest of the gear...
Any issue regarding the workflow ? Specific solutions to adress our kind of needs. Any answer much appreciated !

Lauri Kettunen

06-01-2008, 11:48 AM

Or do you just hike with 8-10 batteries, or an anton-bauer huge, 11 kg, 6hr duration new thing.. it looks hardly possible for one single person with food and the rest of the gear...

When I stay 24 hours in a hide filming birds I need 4 to 6 Red bricks (batteries) and still, I use the batteries sparingly. This gives me 6-8 hours of operating time running the camera. Whether one is recording or not does not make a big difference. The Red lithium bricks has a very high energy/mass ratio, which is higher than that of NiMH batteries. So, it's difficult to reduce the mass by a choice of some other batteries.

Carrying the camera, batteries, tripod, accessories, and audio equipment by a single person at once is next to impossible. So,as Steve says, it takes some planning to manage with the system. But, at least for me, the image quality counterbalances all the trouble. I'm also looking forward to see what Scarlet will be all about. As it stands now, it seems Red One and Scarlet will be a very good combo for wildlife shooting.

Finaly, Epic will be lighter than Red One. But nothing has so far been said about the power requirements. Neither have heard any news whether one could install a Canon EF or Nikon mount on Epic.

Mark Thorpe

06-01-2008, 02:10 PM

What about interchangeable lenses ? We have to be able to use focal lengths up to 600 or 800 mm, ESPECIALLY in uncontrolled environments and when it comes to shy/dangerous species. Sleep mode and badly protected connectors left aside (true limitations...) , why do you thing real wild environments should rule out the red one ? Crew size ? Anything else ?I'm sure eventually someone will develop an adapter to be able to use third party lenses as they have done for the Z1, HVX200 and others, Until then it bears true what Gibby said regarding physical condition. I found myself recently running around African bush country and even though I was 12 years military and since then have worked extensively underwater and kept myself pretty darned trim, that was a tad challenging. Not impossible but not something someone without conditioning could expect to do straight off the bat.

Cheers,
Mark.

Meryem Ersoz

06-01-2008, 03:55 PM

Carrying the camera, batteries, tripod, accessories, and audio equipment by a single person at once is next to impossible. So,as Steve says, it takes some planning to manage with the system.

This is true...the weight carried versus distance traveled is always a conundrum. Now, more than ever, with RED.

And Lauri's list doesn't even mention the laptop, the CF card reader, etc. Tape has some advantages with this style of shooting. You can really rack up the weight fast with batteries and RED drives.

I just bought a small cart for my RED gear and used it for the first time today. I haven't got the system thoroughly dialed yet, but it worked pretty well. If I strap my tripod snugly into it, then I can be more mobile, and there's also enough room in it to keep the laptop off the ground and downloading CF cards while I shoot. This cart allows me to shoot a lot of images solo and wrangle the data on-site.

I'm going to try to invent a harness system for it, so I can hands-free it, while towing the load. It's not even about fitness -- I simply don't have anywhere to put all the supporting accessories....my backpack is absolutely stuffed to the gills, and there's still more to bring along!

Having the cart makes it a lot easier to move all the stuff around, to get multiple angles on shots, which can be a challenge. I found that if I laid everything out on the ground, then I'd have to run my camera and tripod over to the new angle, than run back, and pick up the stuff off the ground and do a secondary carry to the new location--otherwise, you have to break everything down, to move it all at one time. With this cart, I can keep everything self-contained and move it all at the same time.

It can't be used for all applications, because there are places that I will go that the cart cannot, but I took it for its first run, to shoot a kayaking competition. And it worked out pretty well -- I have several modifications in mind after the first outing. But I was able to drag it along some narrow woodsy paths with no problems.

I've been fantasizing about the WILD-POD, my ultimate outdoor gear-moving machine....I'll have to invent it, though.

Denis Buhot

06-02-2008, 07:40 AM

[QUOTE
I've been fantasizing about the WILD-POD, my ultimate outdoor gear-moving machine....I'll have to invent it, though.[/QUOTE]

Let us know as soon as your dream come true... and thanks for sharing dreams and experience. That won't work in montaneous ground, on steep slopes or very rocky environment, though :-). Let's make friends for a little help... Question, anyone ever used newest sigma lenses (300-800, or 800 mm) on the red ? Some have changed nikon 600 for sigma 500, I hear...

Meryem Ersoz

06-02-2008, 08:02 AM

The one that I have won't work on very rugged terrain, I'm well aware of that, but the one I'm imagining will. Of course it won't work over a boulder field or a climb with big steps, but I'm hoping it will be able to cover about 70% of the hiking trails in my backyard. We'll see.

I live in a very scenic neighborhood, lots of wildlife cruise through here, including mountain lions and bears. A month ago, the DOW officer came through our alley with a rifle while I was jumping on my trampoline with my daughter and told me to take my dog and daughter inside, because of a mountain lion sighting in the next block...this isn't that unusual for my neighborhood, so an easy way to haul the maximum gear locally is essential.

I have a Sigma 300-800mm in a Canon mount and am hoping that it will work with the Birger, which is on order....the lens is an outstanding bit of optics, as nice as any Canon L glass, and I have a lot of that as well.

Denis Buhot

06-02-2008, 08:28 AM

I have a Sigma 300-800mm in a Canon mount and am hoping that it will work with the Birger, which is on order....the lens is an outstanding bit of optics, as nice as any Canon L glass, and I have a lot of that as well.

it should work, hopefully... Great information, quite consistent with what I already have : some sigma lenses stand aside with the best canon/nikon stuff...while retaining an iris ring. Hope you post some still with that lens as soon as you get your birger mount !

Maximus

06-04-2008, 11:33 AM

Has anyone had any issues with the fan noise scaring away timid wildlife subjects? I have a potential shoot with some rather camera shy birds and I think the fan on my Red may be an issue. I would be working in a hide in a hot and humid location so there would be no option to turn the fans down. Unfortunately, it's not really long lens stuff so I fear that the camera noise might be a problem. I'd really appreciate any feedback if someone has had their Red in this type of situation. Otherwise it looks like I'm going to have to play safe and hire in a Varicam. Thanks in advance. Max

Lauri Kettunen

06-04-2008, 12:59 PM

Has anyone had any issues with the fan noise scaring away timid wildlife subjects?

Perhaps not scaring, but yes, recently I witnessed an amazing incidence. I was in a hide filming golden eye ducks in mating time. The hide itself is bit like a tiny cottage. The camera was off as I had a lot of material when a flock of birds suddenly swam in the front of the hide.

The male ducks make a sound which is kind of hiss, as the birds were in front of me I pressed the buttom to switch the camera on. When the camera boots up, the fan runs at maximum speed for a moment. When the fan started to spin, simultaneously I realized the basic frequency component of the fan is very close to that of the hiss of the male duck. And then, for my big surprise, the female golden eye duck, which was right in front of me, suddenly jumped from water and flew straight to the window of the hide, hit it, and landed then back on water.

Thereafter, whenever the camera started to boot up (6 or 7 times) and the fan switched on, the female duck flew even from 30 meters away to the hide to check what is there in the bird-house attached to the hide.

It's a pity booting up takes such a long time. Othwerise I would have got unique footages of a golden eye duck flying straight towards the camera!

Nils Ruinet

06-04-2008, 01:32 PM

Yeah,
I heard it attracts bears too...

:)

Denis Buhot

06-04-2008, 09:36 PM

Has anyone had any issues with the fan noise scaring away timid wildlife subjects? Max

I woke up this morning with that very question in my mind... I remember working on bonelli's eagles and eagle-owls at very short distance (4 meters) with a very noisy old betacam stuff, or being unable to refrain from coughing... Both are supposed to be very shy birds, especially at nest or when feeding on a caught. They would stare at the hide for a short while, but wouldn't really care, as if their attention had been raised, period. I doubt fans would be a real issue. In general, it seems that birds are very sensitive to sudden noises, not really to continuous ones, I guess, especially if they don't "see" anything particular. I tend to think otherwise with mammals, but apparently, what came across Isaac's plans about foxes was boot-up time, not noise... However, no way you can really predict what frequencies your subject will really hear, and what intraspecific behavior you may trigger (beware of golden eyes duck !!).

BTW, does the red one bear a silencing device around it without overheating ?

Isaac Babcock

06-05-2008, 04:29 PM

Just my opinions...

the fan at initial start up is quite loud- and has startled wildlife for me, but once the camera has booted, it is reasonable - I live where it is "colder than warmer" so the fan doesn't run all that high that often.

The start up is my main whine. I've missed more than a few greats, elk chasing coyotes, wolves chasing elk, the works...so it goes, I can't complain I knew it when I purchased - I just hope they come to a sleep button soon. 1-2 minutes can be an eternity. enuff whine...

That said, I've encountered a couple other issues. I try to start the camera and then move into position while it is starting (then wait another minute for the camera to be ready..) My camera doesn't seem to like to be moved while it is booting...this has happened 5-6 times. It seems that if I move the camera while it is just booting up, it remains in "boot" mode, with the fan on high speed, and the RED "initializing" screen never comes about. the only solution I've found is to kill the power, and repower it. I don't know if this is unique to my camera, or if the problem is really in moving the camera while booting, but it has never happened to me when I've booted the camera while the camera is still, and has happened most times I can remember that I've booted it on the run!

I've had some 4K 16x9 codec errors at real unfortunate times (..hope they are no longer in Build 16) and some Monitor flicker if I boot up the camera without the monitor cable attached...but all and all if figure this is the price for riding the bleeding edge. I've shed a few tears over missed shots because of slow boot-up and codec errors, was ready to chuck the camera into the river once or twice when frustrated :), but I think it is the best camera for my $$, the image is great from what I can tell, and I keep believing the "functions" for wildlife work (Sleep mode) will be coming along shortly.

I'm reasonably impressed with the weight. I can get around with a 800 or a 150-600 and tripod pretty well solo, seems better than the 40x + HD Cam set up. I've got my handle/cradle pretty stripped, it works. If I could carry less batteries I'd smile more and grunt less...

Bear in mind, I'm not the best cameraman, shooter, or filmmaker. But I do carry the camera into some pretty remote places without a film crew. For me its about keeping the camera simple and being able to shoot quickly - the latter isn't happening yet...

Again, just my thoughts, you'll get better info from those who've made a life of it...

I Bloom

06-07-2008, 11:29 AM

That said, I've encountered a couple other issues. I try to start the camera and then move into position while it is starting (then wait another minute for the camera to be ready..) My camera doesn't seem to like to be moved while it is booting...this has happened 5-6 times. It seems that if I move the camera while it is just booting up, it remains in "boot" mode, with the fan on high speed, and the RED "initializing" screen never comes about. the only solution I've found is to kill the power, and repower it. I don't know if this is unique to my camera, or if the problem is really in moving the camera while booting, but it has never happened to me when I've booted the camera while the camera is still, and has happened most times I can remember that I've booted it on the run!

I've had this false boot problem. But I'm not sure it has much to do with movement. As it's happened on a tripod, and not happened while handholding.

The likely cause of this boot issue is one of the drivers that are controlling external devices: such as a Red drive, a CF card, or an EVF or LCD. If one of these drivers is hanging then the whole system might hang as it is initializing.

It could also be that minor power fluctuations, from a weak battery mount connection are at play... but this doesn't seem likely to me.

Try disconnecting, peripherals from your Red before you boot... in particular a Red drive... then reconnecting it when it's done. This may prevent this hanging on boot.
.
These are all just ideas.

By the way, congrats on the wedding. Glad to here you're out their shooting with the Red.

IBloom

M_Sanderson

06-09-2008, 06:43 AM

I'm reasonably impressed with the weight. I can get around with a 800 or a 150-600 and tripod pretty well solo, seems better than the 40x + HD Cam set up. I've got my handle/cradle pretty stripped, it works. If I could carry less batteries I'd smile more and grunt less...

Hi Isaac,
I am very interested to hear you have a good setup with the red and an 800 or 150-600mm. Ive been thinking about my options a lot, should i go for a canon/sigma 150-600/300-800 for my red or use a 40x with the b4 (but then its only 2k right?) Ive always thought that yes its great you can get the wide and the mammoth close up with the 40x but in a lot of cases you dont need to go THAT wide as your subject will be so far away you wouldnt see it in the wide, i recently saw this situation in BBC's Wild China. The cut from extreme wide in beautiful landscape where you didnt really see the animal, to the extreme closeup on the long end. What the 40x are nice for are the zooms from that extreme close up to super wide - but for regular sequence work you dont really need it?

So my question is (as i never used this lens) is the 150mm on the 150-600mm wide enough to get a wide in most cases? or just a mid.
Im all for using and investing in stills lenses for my red and hiring hd zooms as and when necessary - silly prices anyway - little me cant afford a 40x whaha

JoshBertrand

06-09-2008, 07:52 AM

Steve Gibby

06-09-2008, 11:12 AM

Hi Isaac,
I am very interested to hear you have a good setup with the red and an 800 or 150-600mm. Ive been thinking about my options a lot, should i go for a canon/sigma 150-600/300-800 for my red or use a 40x with the b4 (but then its only 2k right?) Ive always thought that yes its great you can get the wide and the mammoth close up with the 40x but in a lot of cases you dont need to go THAT wide as your subject will be so far away you wouldnt see it in the wide, i recently saw this situation in BBC's Wild China. The cut from extreme wide in beautiful landscape where you didnt really see the animal, to the extreme closeup on the long end. What the 40x are nice for are the zooms from that extreme close up to super wide - but for regular sequence work you dont really need it?

So my question is (as i never used this lens) is the 150mm on the 150-600mm wide enough to get a wide in most cases? or just a mid.
Im all for using and investing in stills lenses for my red and hiring hd zooms as and when necessary - silly prices anyway - little me cant afford a 40x whaha

Here's some input on your questions:

We have the Funinon 42x9.7 and 22x7.3 HD EFP zooms. They're both great lenses. If the shooting we're doing can be limited to 2k and we need a very high frame rate, then yes we use them and yes, the footage is excellent. I've owned a RED B4 adaptor since last September.

The above said, a large portion of the wildlife and adventure travel footage we've been shooting has called for 4k and 3k resolutions, so the B4 lenses can't be used. My solutions for long lens 4k and 3k footage have been my Canon FD 150-600 f5.5L zoom and my RED 300mm tele, with a Century 2x extender at times.

My 150-600 is stock, except for a Century PL mount conversion (mount only). It was made in 1989 and the glass is excellent. My lens is well-maintained and free from the wear and tear you may find in lenses that old. It weighs 9 pounds, as opposed to the much heavier Sigma 300-800 (16 pounds).

With the 150-600 installed on RED, and the rest of the camera all set up, the rig weight is around 30 pounds. I regularly hike into remote areas with the rigged camera body in one hand, the 150-600 in my Tamrac 5258 backpack, and my tripod in my other hand.

150mm isn't that wide, so I usually also take along my RED 18-50 zoom for the wider scenic shots. BTW, the RED 300 is a very crisp lens and holds up very well to use with a 2x extender. Its is an excellent wildlife lens if you don't need zoom capability. When I need long lens zoom capability and need to cover 4k and 3k, my choice is the 150-600. If zooming isn't needed I quite often use the RED 300.

If you're not planning on renting your RED kit out, then by all means you can go the still lens route.

I've shot extensive amounts of wildlife with RED ONE since last August, in places like the Rocky Mountains, Hawaii, the U.S. West Coast, and Alaska. The first photo below is me in an extremely remote area of Alaska a few weeks ago shooting with my 150-600. The rest of the setup includes: RED EVF, ET EVF mount with sliding adjustment, RED Drive, ET ARRI plate (15mm), 15mm rods, ET ARRI V plate, Miller Arrow 55 tripod. The other photo is a closer look at the same rig in action on one of my California coast shoots.

I highly recommend the ET accessories. They're strong and well designed.

The 150-600 is hard to find and getting more expensive by the week. It is good glass and covers 4k and naturally 3k on RED ONE.

Hope this info helps you...

Steve Gibby

06-09-2008, 11:27 AM

When you guys go out solo, how are you carrying the tripod? I can my Red kit to fit in the Tamrac backpack just fine, but that leaves me holding the tripod in my hand. I can't imagine trying to hike while carrying an O'Connor 1030HDS. Though I suppose that's the only option if I'm alone.

I regularly hike alone long distances with my Tamrac back stuffed with lenses and accessories, the rigged but lens-less camera body in another hand, and my Miller Arrow 55 tripod in a soft case with the should strap over my shoulder. There are a number of different strap systems you can find to strap up your tripod and shoulder-carry it.

I can't over-emphasize the role of physical fitness for this type of hiking in and shooting. I'm 60 years old, but I workout five or six days a week and eat carefully - thus I'm still able to get those hyper-mobile, challenging, single person into the wilderness shots. You can too - if you stay in shape. Otherwise, take an assistant with you to share the load.

Are Pilskog

06-09-2008, 12:07 PM

Steve Gibby

06-09-2008, 12:34 PM

Gibby, or anyone else.

Could you please tell me how you support the heavy lences? Is there some kind of universal support for different lences (I will probably go with different still lences, probably Canon and Sigma)? How much weight may a solution with rods carry? If the lence make the rigged camera front heavy, how do you conect and find the balance at a tripod, using the rods-solution?

I have no experience with the use of rods so please explain this to a "dummie".
And I appologice my poor english...I am norwegian you know...

Sincerely
Are Pilskog

Your English is much better than my Norwegian! My grandmother emigrated form Norway to the USA in 1875. A large part of my ancestry is Norwegian and Swedish.

I use both 15mm and 19mm rods at times. I have both of the ET ARRI base plates (15mm and 19mm). The little sliding bracket you see on the new picture I just added to my previous post shows the bracket under the lens. A small screw on that bracket goes into the bottom of the lens and secures the mount. Thos are 15mm rods in the picture. I use them to keep the weight of the rig down. They're plenty strong for that. The Canon 150-600 zoom pictured weighs nine pounds.

The Sigma 300-800 weighs 16 pounds, so again, no problem supporting it with either 15mm or 19mm rods.

Recently in Hawaii on a production, I used an Optimo 24-290 zoom, which weighs 24 pounds, on 19mm rods and again no problem.

On your questions about balance:

The Element Technica ARRI base plate you see in the pictures, with the rods on the side guides, is made to slide along the ET ARRI V plate I have it mounted on. That allows me to slide the rig forward or backward until balance is achieved. The Miller base plate under the AEER V plate also has the ability to slide forward and backward, so I can also use that to balance the rig on the head.

The Canon 150-600 lens weighs 9 pounds, The RED Cradle on the top back of the camera, which holds the RED Drive and RED battery has a weight of roughly 5 pounds. Sliding the rig on the V plate easily balances the rig on the head, then just lock it down.

Hope this info helps you...

Are Pilskog

06-09-2008, 01:19 PM

Thank you for a quick and thoroughly answer...
Are

Are Pilskog

06-09-2008, 01:26 PM

Steve Gibby

06-09-2008, 01:40 PM

Actually, one more question (and there might be more questions later:=).
Where do you get the sliding bracket for the lence? Is that a universal bracket that fits at different lences or does it just fit on your Canon 150-600 lence?

Are Pilskog

If you're using 19mm rods the RED Universal Mount will slide onto them. It has a hole in the center where you can screw through a long bolt to reach the bottom of the lens collar or in the case of the 150-600 the bottom of the lens casing. With the RED Universal Mount there is about a 3cm gap between the top of the mount and the bottom of a lens collar - thus the need for a longer screw. I would imagine when RED can get around to it they will design a small plate to fill that gap.

I don't know who made the sliding bracket pictured in use with my 150-600. The manufacturer is not mentioned on the part, and I bought it used from someone else. There are a number of rail systems and sliding brackets that will work with RED though.

The screw hole diameter on the bottom of lens collars is pretty much universal.

Hope this helps...

richard peterson

06-09-2008, 03:02 PM

... Miller Arrow 55 tripod. ...

Hi,

How do you like your Miller Arrow 55 ?

Ed Watkins

06-09-2008, 03:54 PM

Hi,

How do you like your Miller Arrow 55 ?

I use one, and absolutely love it. I couldn't recommend this tripod highly enough, especially with the CF legs. Millers are beauties.

M_Sanderson

06-10-2008, 01:37 AM

Here's some input on your questions:

We have the Funinon 42x9.7 and 22x7.3 HD EFP zooms. They're both great lenses. If the shooting we're doing can be limited to 2k and we need a very high frame rate, then yes we use them and yes, the footage is excellent. I've owned a RED B4 adaptor since last September.

The above said, a large portion of the wildlife and adventure travel footage we've been shooting has called for 4k and 3k resolutions, so the B4 lenses can't be used. My solutions for long lens 4k and 3k footage have been my Canon FD 150-600 f5.5L zoom and my RED 300mm tele, with a Century 2x extender at times.

My 150-600 is stock, except for a Century PL mount conversion (mount only). It was made in 1989 and the glass is excellent. My lens is well-maintained and free from the wear and tear you may find in lenses that old. It weighs 9 pounds, as opposed to the much heavier Sigma 300-800 (16 pounds).

With the 150-600 installed on RED, and the rest of the camera all set up, the rig weight is around 30 pounds. I regularly hike into remote areas with the rigged camera body in one hand, the 150-600 in my Tamrac 5258 backpack, and my tripod in my other hand.

150mm isn't that wide, so I usually also take along my RED 18-50 zoom for the wider scenic shots. BTW, the RED 300 is a very crisp lens and holds up very well to use with a 2x extender. Its is an excellent wildlife lens if you don't need zoom capability. When I need long lens zoom capability and need to cover 4k and 3k, my choice is the 150-600. If zooming isn't needed I quite often use the RED 300.

If you're not planning on renting your RED kit out, then by all means you can go the still lens route.

I've shot extensive amounts of wildlife with RED ONE since last August, in places like the Rocky Mountains, Hawaii, the U.S. West Coast, and Alaska. The first photo below is me in an extremely remote area of Alaska a few weeks ago shooting with my 150-600. The rest of the setup includes: RED EVF, ET EVF mount with sliding adjustment, RED Drive, ET ARRI plate (15mm), 15mm rods, ET ARRI V plate, Miller Arrow 55 tripod. The other photo is a closer look at the same rig in action on one of my California coast shoots.

I highly recommend the ET accessories. They're strong and well designed.

The 150-600 is hard to find and getting more expensive by the week. It is good glass and covers 4k and naturally 3k on RED ONE.

Hope this info helps you...

Yeah definitely helps, thanks for the info.
Nice library you got going - i doesnt say which lens you used on the shots though - would you mind pointing out some shots that you took with the 150-600mm and which with HD zooms?
would be good to see their performance - I understand that they are webclips and not their native resolution.

I dont really intend to rent out my red - except with me included ofcourse so going the stills lens route is a bit of a no brainer
What about using the 150-600mm with the FD mount adaptor that is aparantly available for the Red?

16 pounds is pretty heavy for the Sigma 300-800mm, but this lens would be good for hide work?

Nice pics of your rig BTW, puts it into perspective what works for you, thanks

Denis Buhot

06-11-2008, 06:40 AM

The rest of the setup includes: RED EVF, ET EVF mount with sliding adjustment, RED Drive, ET ARRI plate (15mm), 15mm rods, ET ARRI V plate, Miller Arrow 55 tripod. The other photo is a closer look at the same rig in action on one of my California coast shoots.

Thanks for all this valuable input. Three questions : what's the arri plate for ? Need it order to get the whole set up in balance, with a heavy, long lens ? If the case, do you see some other solution for that purpose (basic production pack ? cheese plate ? or whatever you may suggest) ? About the ET EVF mount : do you find it difficult to adjust the evf using the red arm ?

J.Burger

06-17-2008, 03:05 AM

Hi there,
I need some advice from experienced wildlife shooters / reduseres…

I’m looking for a „swap pack” solution, so that I can run the camera for a long time without rebooting… Doing so, I will need a lot of batteries. Are there good and cheep alternatives to the RED bricks, or would you go with those?

Sitting here in Europe I also thought it would be also a good idea to buy Accessories (if they are available) here in Europe, in order to get a quick and easy support. What do you think?
Thanks

David Nardini

06-17-2008, 03:42 AM

Decided to stick on the 2:1 format once ran into "codec error" problems with the 16:9 mode. When shooting with wide angle lenses, small apertures, and if the image involves a lot of details, the codec fails for some reason in 16:9 mode. Never had the same problem with 2:1 format.

What comes to Denis' question of experiences, I would sum up Red One in wildlife filming as follows:

Pro
-Excellent image quality
-Versatile system that can be adapted and modified to many needs
-4 audio channels
-High speed modes

Con (as now with build 15)
-Weigth
-Power consumption
-Bit long booting up time
-Slightly instable system implying the camera may occasionally be whimsical like all computers.

However, as all the specs may change, the new builds may include a sleep mode, and in addition, the slight instability may disappear with software updates.

Love my RED for wildlife ... and my comments are similar to above :

Pros :
- quality, but one has to hit the sweet spot (and with B16 it's only going to get better)
- very adaptable
- 2k or 3k high speed recording is fab

Cons :
- heavy (I guess I'm not as fit as Gibby !!!)
- boot up time (to avoid the 'wait', got into the habit of rigging all the ancillaries while the camera boots)
- codec errors in 4k 16:9 ... have had to settle for 4k 2:1 at the moment
- would be VERY nice to have a pre-recorded buffer implemented (PLEASE PLEASE)

Not yet received my EVF ... operating with just the RED LCD has been very very hard in the meantime ;-(
Many of the cons are being worked on by RED, the fitness is down to me; I've never really heard if the pre-recorded buffer is on the wish list ???

Not done any long lens work ... my Canon glass awaits Birger getting their act together.

Cheers

Lauri Kettunen

06-17-2008, 06:47 AM

I've never really heard if the pre-recorded buffer is on the wish list ???

Some time ago Jarred said the call for the recording buffer is heard by the development team. So, I guess at some point such a feature should be available.

Burger, I would not recommend to get a simple swap pack. The problem is, when you have two batteries in parallel connection the batteries will charge each other without any control. As a result the batteries will get ruined faster than when used properly.

To see what I mean, read the manual of the charger, which explains how the charger adjusts the current at different stages of the charging process. In a parallel connection of the batteries, there's no control on the current charging the battery with less energy. And this is what may shorten the life time of the batteries. I'm afraid, there's no simple electrical connection around this problem.

In general, Li-batteries are bit like food. Whether they are used or not, they will get slowly ruined. Usually, if Li-batteries are not used for a long period, it is better to put them in a refrigerator as the chemical reactions slow down in cold. However, don't know the details of the RED batteries. In fact, it would be useful and interesting to hear what Red can say of the life span and storage of their batteries.

J.Burger

06-17-2008, 12:52 PM

Burger, I would not recommend to get a simple swap pack. The problem is, when you have two batteries in parallel connection the batteries will charge each other without any control. As a result the batteries will get ruined faster than when used properly.

Hi Lauri, concerning the „Swap pack“ solution I got in on other thread this hint:

The secret of this, and made by an audio company here in holland (http://www.noyzboyz.nl/) is that they take out the special magnet which is in the Red battery plates that will dispay the info on the battery. They than take a better and bigger battery plate (Hawkwoods) and combine this with a regulator and a special plug which will take over power when another powersource is connected. You then take another batteryplate or powersource with a full battery attached, connect it, take of the empty battery, drop in the new one, and disconnect the "switch" batteryplate. Voila, the whole day shooting without rebooting.....

But what do you think about the RED bricks? Has anybody good alternatives in use?