Motion Control Pan/Tilt head

[Larry Gebhardt]

Hello All...

I have a shoot coming up next week where we will be compositing several layers of green screen shots into live action BG plates. I would like to do simple tripod head pan/tilt moves with these instead of locking the shots down, and simplify the post with exactly repeated moves in all of the elements (save tracking everything). I don't want to get into a full-on MoCo rig, just a simple motion encoded head that will repeat the moves. I thought there is something like this existing that once a move is done, it will save the encoder data to a laptop (or other device) for exactly repeating the move for later elements. The Viewfactor's Mirus head would work for us but it is not shipping yet.

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of equipment, and where it would be available. We are shooting in LA.

Again, I know that full-on MoCo rigs will do this, but we don't have the budget.

Thanks in advance.

Larry Gebhardt

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Try the Mo-sys system it's nice and can deliver tracking as well.

http://www.mo-sys.com/


Fredrik Callinggard

[Manuel Wenger]

http://www.ravensclaw.us/

didn´t work with this head yet, but it looks promising.

[Adrian T.]

Mirus by viewfactor:
http://www.viewfactor.net/khxc/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=Mirus01 (http://www.viewfactor.net/khxc/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=Mirus01)

Unfortunately, it's not shipping yet. But maybe they can rent you a prototype head.

[M Most]

Hello All...

I have a shoot coming up next week where we will be compositing several layers of green screen shots into live action BG plates. I would like to do simple tripod head pan/tilt moves with these instead of locking the shots down, and simplify the post with exactly repeated moves in all of the elements (save tracking everything). I don't want to get into a full-on MoCo rig, just a simple motion encoded head that will repeat the moves. I thought there is something like this existing that once a move is done, it will save the encoder data to a laptop (or other device) for exactly repeating the move for later elements.

Hot Gears.
Aerohead.

Be aware that for real accuracy, the sticks themselves must be very heavily bagged, you must be on a stable surface (i.e., not a wooden floor), shutter control must be enabled (I don't think this is possible with a Red, but I could be wrong), and a certain amount of post work in terms of stabilization and slight repositioning is to be expected (less than with film, however).

Also be careful to avoid shooting during earthquakes.

[BrettVegasGober]

http://pacificmotion.net/remoteheads.html

The talon is pretty low cost rental, aerohead is more.

Hope that helps...

[Larry Gebhardt]

Thanks, everyone for your input...I appreciate it. I will be checking out the various suggestions tomorrow (long scout day today). It looks like the Aerohead is what we need but will decide tomorrow.

Thanks again...this forum is really cool!

Larry

[M Most]

Thanks, everyone for your input...I appreciate it. I will be checking out the various suggestions tomorrow (long scout day today). It looks like the Aerohead is what we need but will decide tomorrow.


If you go with the Aerohead, it would be advisable to get a tech to come along with it, unless your crew has experience with it. It would also be a good idea to run through what you need to do, and what other equipment you'll have, with the tech during preproduction, as the Aerohead software is very capable and can do some very useful things (remote start of previous scene playback via a time code trigger, that sort of thing).

Good luck and enjoy.

[Peter McCully]

Check out the post by Jim Arthurs about pseudo motion control if you have a post savy effects wizz - you might be able to avoid MC completely.


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1373 (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1373)

[michael zaletel]

I saw this at NAB last year and was quite impressed...

The Talon, starting at $12,995 and will do everything you are asking.

http://www.ravensclaw.us/index.html

-shooter

[Alexander Mitchell]

Another option is the Intel-a-head by the same guys that make the Intel-a-jib. (great 7' or 10' small jib BTW). They have a pretty lame website, however, if you can get the Intel-a-head PRO (not pictured on site) you can mount that on any Mitchell base- tripod or dolly. It can hold up to a 38 pound camera and gives you full pan/tilt movements that are repeatable/programable. Easy to use and well engineered.

I own the head/jib and am looking to upgrade to the repeatable move controller soon...

http://www.industryadvanced.com/profile.html

Good luck

[BrettVegasGober]

The aerohead is a great head, but overkill for the red, 75lb+ load capacity.
The folks that engineered/softwared/electronics the aerohead started a new company, ravensclaw, for whom I am humbly employed. The aerohead rents for ~$1500 a day, the little talon rents for ~$300 a day.

The age of big heavy expensive moco heads is over, if we have anything to say about it. :gun:

I don't think you need a tech, if you go talon, running a move is pretty simple.

[jbeale]

Unless I am very mistaken, your website appears to be
http://www.ravensclaw.us/

the .com site you listed seems to be about golf.

[BrettVegasGober]

Golf and remote heads, thats us. Thanks, I was typing too fast.

The only thing worse is googling ravensclaw, we come up, but so does a bunch of weird middleages recreation groups

[BrettVegasGober]

I'lll correct myself on another point. The moves are not hard to make, but KuperNode is complex. Getting a tech to take care of that will make life alot easier.

[assaffr]

Don't forget the SFH-30 specifically for Timelapse:
http://www.mrmoco.com/Products/Heads/SFH-30.htm

[Tom Lowe]

Larry did you try calling the Mirus guys? Maybe they could bring out their demos for you to use? They are in the LA area, I think.

[Adrian T.]

Larry did you try calling the Mirus guys? Maybe they could bring out their demos for you to use? They are in the LA area, I think.

See post #4 above. :gun: :tongue:

[John V]

The Talon is a remote head that is very different than a true motion control head. It saves point not the actual motion of the shot. Point are easy...saving the speed, time, and actual location during the move is what makes a unit such as Mark Roberts Ultihead and Mirus from View Factor diffrent than a remote head.

BTW When Mirus is released it is self contained. The Talon and every other system out there neglects to show you all the other equipment and programming you need to know to make it work.

[BrettVegasGober]

The Talon will record marks, but it will record up to one hour of continous moves also, including speed and zoom and focus, up to 2000 takes. The lower cost jib package isn't capable of any motion controll, just remote pan/tilt.
Kupernode is an option.
Vurtual set is an option.
Intervalomiter, stretching moves per frame, is an option.

We try very hard to keep the price down, entry barred to noone. That does mean there is a long list of options.
We have about 35 heads out there. Our customers love the heads. Building 50 now, going to have to pick up another CNC mill, the little one we got can't keep up;)

[Jeff Platt]

The Talon is a remote head that is very different than a true motion control head. It saves point not the actual motion of the shot. Point are easy...saving the speed, time, and actual location during the move is what makes a unit such as Mark Roberts Ultihead and Mirus from View Factor diffrent than a remote head.

John, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. A motion control head is not defined by what kind of data it saves. If you have the positions of the motors in a system, it only takes a little math to figure out the actual lens position in space, as well as velocities, after the fact. And all the heads that you mention are remote heads, because they are operated remotely.
A "true" motion control head will exactly repeat the same camera position for every frame that is shot when it is played back. The Talon does this with little to no programming knowledge.



BTW When Mirus is released it is self contained. The Talon and every other system out there neglects to show you all the other equipment and programming you need to know to make it work.


Actually, the Talon only needs the head, remote box, power supply and 2 cables and it is ready to fully function. To record a move, you press the record button... no programming necessary. And Brett, the intervalometer function is now included with the base package for the Remote.
The system also continuously outputs virtual set data also with the base package. The Talon will also sync to the Red Camera's frame output while recording and playing back to ensure that the motion is locked to the picture.

-Jeff