EVF Wow, Bummer! [Archive]

Keith Neff

06-03-2008, 02:37 PM

Emery Wells

06-03-2008, 02:42 PM

I've had a few issues with mine but never seen the problem you are describing.

Martin Weiss

06-03-2008, 03:44 PM

Over on another thread it was suggested that the quality of the evf can vary between satisfactory and amazing. This here seems to confirm that?

David Battistella

06-03-2008, 09:12 PM

Just got our EVF and it looks terrific! However, is anybody else seeing color flashing after its been on a while? It goes blue or red for a frame at a time every few seconds. Will be calling Red tomorrow, just checking on if there are any known problems. (24 fps, 4K, 2:1, ISO 320)

I have seen this on some EVF's I think it is the scan rate of the EVF. If you move your eye from corner to corner while looking through the EVF you can invoke this"RGB" phenomenon. It is an issue with the scan rate of the viewfinder. I don't hink it vaies from EVF to EVF, it's the way it is.

David

Mark Pedersen

06-03-2008, 11:20 PM

Over on another thread it was suggested that the quality of the evf can vary between satisfactory and amazing. This here seems to confirm that?

Oh tell me this isn't so....

I hope they are not sacrificing quality to get them out the door faster.

M

Brent@RED

06-03-2008, 11:39 PM

Oh tell me this isn't so....

I hope they are not sacrificing quality to get them out the door faster.

M

I think RED has shown time and time again that we will NEVER sacrifice quality to get something out the door.

I will ask our EVF product manager tomorrow about this effect.

BC

Keith Neff

06-04-2008, 08:30 AM

I think RED has shown time and time again that we will NEVER sacrifice quality to get something out the door.

I will ask our EVF product manager tomorrow about this effect.

BC

Thanks Brent, I know you guys will make good on it if it's a problem here is a quote from our DIT.

"Once warmed up, it suffers intermittently from flashes in the display. They are almost strobe like.
Changes in lens focus, framing, panning, even covering the lens with with your hand seems to trigger
or intensify this problem. It can be as subtle as black horizontal streaks or become bright chromatic flashes.
(The kind of flashes that one would see with a loose connection in a camera preamp. The difference being they
can be any color... not just one).
On occasion I've also seen artifacts of the "False Color" operation.
This problem does not seem to be connection/cable related or shock induced.
These aberrations occur with no hands being on the camera.
One last note. A simultaneous LCD viewfinder feed is being displayed with no problems."

Brent@RED

06-04-2008, 08:54 AM

Thanks for the details, Keith. If you have not already done so, open a trouble ticket on RED.com/support. I will look into it at the same time....

BC

jbeale

06-04-2008, 05:12 PM

I probably shouldn't post since I know nothing about the EVF and have never seen one. Just speculating... if it uses a sucessive-refresh R,G,B illumination (like some video projectors) and you move your eye quickly, you may see the single color flash. There will be some individual variation in how fast people's eyes respond to light flickering and that might explain the varying "satisfactory to amazing" reports.

The advantage of using a fast monochrome LCD that displays color by sequential illumination with R,G,B backlight is of course you get higher resolution than would otherwise be possible. At the risk of color flicker seen by those people who have "faster" eyeballs than most (higher flicker fusion rate).

Martin Weiss

06-05-2008, 02:10 AM

Just to clarify. I have not yet used/seen an EVF, so I only can quote 3rd parties. I have no doubt that - should this problem really exist - Red will fix it in due time.

Me lik-a Red!

Over at the Manure Thread (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13921&page=4&highlight=EVF) they briefly discussed the EVF.

David Mullen wrote:
in general, I prefer the RED LCD over the EVF image.
Arrinick followed up with:
I have only seen two EVFs, but the first one I looked through, I thought, "really? everybody thinks this is the most amazing thing they have ever seen?". The second one I saw I was blown away, looked 300% better. I don't know if it's the set up, adjsutments or what, but the two were night and day different.
And Joelnet joined in:
Weird. I've always thought mine was amazing but I have a had a time or two when it went a little wacky and I got a bunch of saturated noise. That turned it into a fairly ugly viewing experience.

David Mullen ASC

06-05-2008, 07:47 AM

Looking thru the EVF some more, I like it better -- it's pretty sharp. My main beef is just that I'd prefer a bigger image, especially since I'm composing for 2.40.

Brent@RED

06-05-2008, 08:34 AM

David, then you are going to be STOKED once you look at out new RED PRO 7" LCD.....

BC

Keith Neff

06-05-2008, 08:38 AM

Brent; I posted the problem to support have not gotten anything. One of our concerns is getting a replacement asap since they are in such short supply. Any news?

Brent@RED

06-05-2008, 08:40 AM

Can you PM me your trouble ticket number so I can look into it? I know it has been being discussed internally so it is most likely us looking into it rather than ignoring it :)

BC

Dan Blanchett

06-05-2008, 10:31 AM

Got my EVF yesterday. Woo-hoo. But it goes downhill from there.

Strangely enough, there is a small insect lodged somewhere in the EVF. I know it's in the EVF because it even shows up on SMTP Bars and the LCD is fine. Not sure how to get the little bugger out of there?

Also, I notice that my EVF image has an overall flutter to it, especially noticeable in the highlights. Not sure how else to describe it other than a flicker or fluttering of the image, like bad TV. Not using any HMIs, only natural light. Again, the LCD looks fine.

So far I'm not exactly enchanted.

Dan

C.H.Haskell

06-05-2008, 10:35 AM

When is that 7inch going to be available?!?! I played with it at NAB, so big, bright and beautiful...solid build and wider viewing range, the 5 inch will make a good back up if you had both.

Brent@RED

06-05-2008, 10:39 AM

thinkbug, please send a trouble ticket to us at RED.com/support so a tech support rep can assist you.

Haskell, see Big Jon's delivery schedule sticky :)

BC

Warren Kommers

06-09-2008, 11:57 AM

I also just fired up my EVF and had the same problem. Random psychedelic color flashing. Tried multiple cables and restarts. It really goes bonkers when I do focus overlay.

I left a message for Sean per my rep(Dan Duran). Have a shoot coming up this week and would like to get this fixed. Should I do a support ticket as well Brent? Please Advise. Thanks.

donatello b

06-09-2008, 06:29 PM

Matthew Chuang

07-03-2008, 09:57 PM

Stuart English

07-03-2008, 11:18 PM

" EVF image has an overall flutter to it, especially noticeable in the highlights"

try changing the EVF refresh rate from "synced" to ? i think it's called "fixed" ( you only have 2 choices - so change it from where it is currently to the other choice) ...

Exactly so. I assume you are on Build 15. if so the default EVF setting is SYNCED which means the EVF is refreshing at 48 Hz (2 x 24 fps) - that's quite "filmic" and if your prefer a "video" display set the EVF refresh to FIXED. In that setting its displaying at 60 Hz (3:2 pulldown on 24 fps)

The EVF is a high speed sequential RGB display, so yes if you blink in rapid succession or move your eye rapidly across the display, you may see an apparent color tint / rainbow effect. That is normal, not a defective or deficient condition.

Emmanuel Cambier

07-04-2008, 12:51 AM

What is going on for us shooting at 25 fps?

I'm about to make payment for my EVF, and this thread has got me a little worried, I must confess.

Emmanuel

Miltos Pilalitos

07-07-2008, 10:41 AM

What is going on for us shooting at 25 fps?

I'm about to make payment for my EVF, and this thread has got me a little worried, I must confess.

Emmanuel

i used a friend's EVF for the very first time yesterday during a shot at 25fps. It has an impressive very high resolution image but also a very noticable rainbow effect. If you are one of those people (like me) who are having prolems with DLP projectors then be adviced.

Maybe a faster refresh rate would minimize the problem but i have no idea if it's possible to do it through a new firmware

Harry Clark

07-07-2008, 02:46 PM

Stuart,
Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering what the rainbow effect was. High speed sequential, meaning each color is flashed separately? (R-G-B-R-G-B or something?)
It only happens when I dart my eye across the frame, and honestly I am already used to it... no big deal.
Cheers,
Harry

Jeff Kilgroe

07-07-2008, 06:59 PM

I just want my EVF... That's my complaint.

Oh yeah, that Finner guy got his camera nearly a month after me, but he already has his EVF. That ain't right... His number must have come up about 10 minutes before RED changed their back-order policy. :tongue:

Finner

07-07-2008, 10:09 PM

When you start to advertise red on the crotch of a pair of speedo's you will get an EVF faster to Jeff.

Yaque Silva-Doyle

07-09-2008, 07:25 AM

My Evf, is tinted completely RED when you look through it. Is this a simple setting, a factory defect, or am I asking a super dumb question.
any help would be great as i have a shoot today.

Martin Weiss

07-09-2008, 09:18 AM

Yaque, rather than cross posting your problem across several threads, it would be much better if you were to open a ticket with support.

Stuart English

07-09-2008, 09:21 AM

I was wondering what the rainbow effect was. High speed sequential, each color flashed separately? (R-G-B-R-G-B)?

It only happens when I dart my eye across the frame, and honestly I am already used to it... no big deal.

Yes Harry, that is exactly what is going on..

Harry Clark

07-10-2008, 05:20 AM

It confirms my geekdom when I enjoy learning these little details! ;)
Harry

Kevin Lang

07-10-2008, 05:48 AM

Just got our EVF's today and they have a fantastic image however I am questioning the dial on the side both of ours seem to be loose and was curious if everyones is like that or we just happen to get lucky twice.

Yaque Silva-Doyle

07-10-2008, 06:02 AM

My bad, will do next time. I was just a little bit flustered so I was looking to get the quickest response. I have posted a support ticket.
cheers

Brent@RED

07-10-2008, 08:48 AM

Since it is both a dial and a button at the same time, we did not want that button to ever stick so there is enough tolerance in the spacing to ensure that does not happen.

BC

Kevin Lang

07-10-2008, 09:46 PM

Since it is both a dial and a button at the same time, we did not want that button to ever stick so there is enough tolerance in the spacing to ensure that does not happen.

BC

AHHHH!! Thank you makes sense.

Dylan Macleod, CSC

07-14-2008, 09:38 AM

Thanks Brent, I know you guys will make good on it if it's a problem here is a quote from our DIT.

"Once warmed up, it suffers intermittently from flashes in the display. They are almost strobe like.
Changes in lens focus, framing, panning, even covering the lens with with your hand seems to trigger
or intensify this problem. It can be as subtle as black horizontal streaks or become bright chromatic flashes.
(The kind of flashes that one would see with a loose connection in a camera preamp. The difference being they
can be any color... not just one).
On occasion I've also seen artifacts of the "False Color" operation.
This problem does not seem to be connection/cable related or shock induced.
These aberrations occur with no hands being on the camera.
One last note. A simultaneous LCD viewfinder feed is being displayed with no problems."

Has this problem been resolved? Any fixes?

I just received my viewfinder and experience the same "random chromatic flashes".

I am not talking about the RGB "flutter" when you dart your eyes around.

This is entirely different.

I've tried swapping cables. No luck.

Build 15.

Don't want to ship her back after waiting this long :-(

Thanks.

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com

filip kovcin

07-14-2008, 10:07 AM

same here,

we are in the middle of the shooting, and EVF is not used at all, partly due to this artifact ...

filip

Mike Burke

07-14-2008, 10:58 AM

Has this problem been resolved? Any fixes?

I just received my viewfinder and experience the same "random chromatic flashes".

I am not talking about the RGB "flutter" when you dart your eyes around.

This is entirely different.

I've tried swapping cables. No luck.

Build 15.

Don't want to ship her back after waiting this long :-(

Thanks.

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com

Yes. This has been resolved. (This was our post you referred to.)
We sent it off to Red, and was returned in a short amount of time. (Thanks Red).
It's looked great ever since.

Jim Hoffman

09-13-2008, 10:07 AM

Anyone experiencing red and blue noise?

Not consistent across the entire screen but in the darker areas of the EVF image - this is not subtle.

Jeremy Newmark

09-13-2008, 02:09 PM

A few people have been seeing this issue.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18772

Jeremiah McLamb

09-28-2008, 05:43 AM

i too am getting this problem. Just got my evf friday...and i'm on build 16. The flicker to me seems to be gamma like...going lighter and darker...along with the slight color change. It's pretty annoying. What was the verdict on this one? Send it back to RED?

Thanks,
Jeremiah

Simon Valderrama

09-28-2008, 10:40 AM

The flicker to me seems to be gamma like...going lighter and darker...along with the slight color change. It's pretty annoying. What was the verdict on this one? Send it back to RED?

Same here. The change seems to happen when light sources enter the frame.
Hope is a software issue?