REDcode to tape

[JD Holloway]

Here's a funny thought....if red code is approx 27 MB/s, isnt that about standard write speed for mini DV in RGB. Thinking new canon HV-20 here,
I think it writes at appox 25MB/s.

Corrrect me if im wrong, but wouldn't 4k mini DV be hilarious? Use HV-20 as a deck...LMAO.
Obviously Canon has no esata/sata port but interesting/cheap possibilities.

...or have i missed something....I wouldn't be surprised.

Erase this thead if its the crack talking.
Baby keeping me up late.

J.

[icecold]

well, 4k redcode raw @24fps is 27MByte/s and miniDV means 25Mbit/s ....

[Ace]

3.6 megabytes /second. Your off by a factor of 10! You mightve been reading megabits and not megabytes.

[JD Holloway]

Ah ya...

thats the crack talking....

An extra 10:1 compression! (lossy)

[Jeremy Hughes]

So I guess if you ran the MiniDV 8.64x faster... you would get 9 minutes and 15 seconds of 4K 24fps REDCODE RAW.

[JD Holloway]

Or how about 2k raw at 2.5 times speed for 0 compression lol.
Or use standard speed and 2.5 compression (lots of processing power left at 2k).


Still better then 1440 upressed to 1920 then compressed to 4.2.0 8 bit HD Cam! And RAW to boot! (silly-hat firmly in place)

[JoshBertrand]

NOOO... keep my precious RED images off those darned Mini-DV's! I've got about 300 of those relics from the past hanging around here if I ever want to reminisce.

[Jeremy Hughes]

NOOO... keep my precious RED images off those darned Mini-DV's! I've got about 300 of those relics from the past hanging around here if I ever want to reminisce.

Hey, D-VHS holds about 15GBs right? Nearly the same recording time as MiniDV. If you don't want to use MiniDV use VHS!

[Adrian T.]

Wait, my home computer has a tape drive, will it work with that too? :unsure:

http://www.shazware.com/me/10pcPast/pet.jpg

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

WOW, a professional computer...

[Billy Summers]

Bet you could do some MEAN business with that badboy!

[Jeremy Hughes]

With a 640m SAIT-2, you could have 8.4 hours of 24fps 4K REDCODE RAW.

[Stuart English]

Well a very similar to "DVCAM" tape - in a very similar to "DVCAM" cassette shell - DOES write at 24MB/s - that's the Sony data tape formet called AIT-5. Which is why we kind of like that as a candidate technology for archiving 4K REDCODE footage. 400GB per tape. $60 each. WORM media option (write once, read many) i.e the media cannot be overrecorded....

[JD Holloway]

Geeze Stuart,

This is kinda what I was getting at. AIT-5 is 3.5 inch! While the interface is SCSI, the size and transfer rate is "in the zone" for on set/location archiving or real time recording or both; at about 3000 dollars, the price is a steal too.

Heck it looks small enough to be steadycam ballast.

Perhaps a blackbox SCSI to laptop to eSATA/SATA would suffice.

Guys, a deck for 3 grand...for 4k media...that keeps Producers from sweating bullets? I'd seriously consider it...\

AIT sounds 'aight'. (insert "urban" twang here)

J.

[Chris Stout]

I'm SOOO glad to hear that the team is trying to find a viable tape solution.

It seems right now that this would be for data backup, but is there something in the works for media delivery? It would suck to have the hottest camera on the planet and still be a slave to the man (aka, the larger post houses with Digibeta and HDCam decks.)

A deck and media that could deliver SD through 4k at the right price would be INSTANTLY embraced. Is the REDeck soon to follow?

Chris

[Jeff Kilgroe]

My personal favorite for possible tape archival solution at the moment is DLT-S4/S5. Gigabit Ethernet interface available, so no need for SCSI. Tapes available in 400GB and 800GB capacities. 400GB goes for about $55, 800GB is about $120. LTO-3 Ultrium is highly attractive with 400GB capacities for about $55/tape as well. LTO-4 is due later this year with 800GB capacity and more interface options.

Some of the upcoming SONY AIT offerings will be sporting eSATA interfaces later this year, as will Quantum's DLT offerings.

It seems that much of the big data archival discussion in various IT forums points to LTO-3 being the most reliable format out there now. AIT is getting some mixed reviews. All of them have WORM capability, 400GB AIT is WORM only.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

but is there something in the works for media delivery?

Hard drive.

Direct / IP delivery, FTP... File copy over VPN, etc..

[Chris Stout]

IP delivery? That may cut it for a 30 second spot, but anything longer at these data rates would be out of control. Besides, clients, festivals, indie theaters etc. want playable tapes. And I'd rather deliver a tape...

Chris

[Jeff Kilgroe]

IP delivery? That may cut it for a 30 second spot, but anything longer at these data rates would be out of control. Besides, clients, festivals, indie theaters etc. want playable tapes. And I'd rather deliver a tape...

With the cost and availability of bandwidth these days, it's not a big deal. This is the future (and rapidly becoming the current method) for ENG submissions and workflows.

In terms of deliverables, we also have to look at the delivery format. Most clients, and especially festivals and indie theaters are not going to want 4K REDCODE submissions. Especially in the beginning. I think in terms of Indie distribution we're going to be looking at HD-DVD, BluRay and IP distribution via outlets like AppleTV or other connected media hubs.

[TimPipher]

Could you record from the Red, through a switcher, directly to AIT-5?

Would it then be possible to send the AIT-5 tape (or deck if necessary) to a dub house for transfer to an HDCAM SR, or D5 tape, or whatever the client needs?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Could you record from the Red, through a switcher, directly to AIT-5?

Hmmm... you might be able to rig up something like that... It wouldn't be through a switcher or anything that actually handles the video stream in a video capacity. If you were to take the 2K SDI output into proper switching hardware and do live capture with it, a tape drive like AIT would not be anywhere near fast enough. Not sure why you would want to. You also wouldn't be able to record all the various formats as AIT-5 transfer rates are slower than REDCODE RAW 4K and probably slower than most of the RGB modes.

Tape forms like AIT, LTO, DLT, etc... Are best reserved for final backup and archival or as another means of transporting a few hundred GB of uprocessed REDCODE RAW.


Would it then be possible to send the AIT-5 tape (or deck if necessary) to a dub house for transfer to an HDCAM SR, or D5 tape, or whatever the client needs?

Possibly, depends on the shop you're working with and what format(s) they support. Also may depend on how you actually write the data to the tape.

Your best bet for delivering for conversion would be on hard drive or uploading it to their systems over a decent internet connection (I'm thinking 20~30Mbps or faster).

[Roxco]

Tape forms like AIT, LTO, DLT, etc... Are best reserved for final backup and archival or as another means of transporting a few hundred GB of uprocessed REDCODE RAW.

Your best bet for delivering for conversion would be on hard drive or uploading it to their systems over a decent internet connection (I'm thinking 20~30Mbps or faster).

Is there a digital cliff concept in delivering via hard drive?
Are not most hard drives checking every bit for corruption?

Do we need an error concealment tape format for REDCODE?
Who cares if a few bits are lost or concealed in the millions?

Rosco

P.S. Looking for a tiny booth in the back of NAB for answers...

.

[Jeremy Hughes]

Honestly, I don't like linear recording like that though. Even though it's recording to actual files on a tape, it just sends shivers down my spine. And also, it just seems to dated for something as new and great as the RED ONE.

But I would like a random access "direct-to-archive" solution. Such as an enclosed octical disc like a PDD but with a higher write speed, the PDD is only 9MBs.

I wouldn't mind REDeck, but I wouldn't use it either.

[Roxco]

Honestly, I don't like linear recording like that though. Even though it's recording to actual files on a tape, it just sends shivers down my spine. And also, it just seems too dated for something as new and great as the RED ONE.

Sorry but the world still thinks linear.

For example to be a 1st AD - Requirements are as follows:

Four years of direct production experience in film or tape...

Hopefully it will soon read film, tape, or REDCINE! ;)

http://www.dga-cql.org/ny_sc_list.html

Rosco