sync multiple cameras and audio?

[amrrahmy]

is there a good way to sync multiple cameras?also video and audio?

[Emery Wells]

Not sure what you are trying to achieve but generally one would jamsync TC from an external source however I have not have had any success with Jam Syncing in B15 but I must be the only one because Ive never heard anyone else say anything about it.

A beer for anyone that can show me how they have successfully jam synced in B15.

[amrrahmy]

how accurate is that?(if it work?)
is there a way to make it frame accurate(make all the cameras sync at the same time(not sync the timeline the actual frames))? and also how accurate would it be to sync the audio(if audio was not recorded with red)

[ayarbro]

I can't show you cause I'm in LA, and not on a red job now, but I have been successfully jammed from the audio guys with b15. I think they synced me off of their digi-nagra?

amrrahmy, you can just sync the timecode on all cameras by "jamming" te cameras with a timecode generator. A second step which yo may want to onsider is genlock. Not sure if it actually works with these things, but you should be able to genlock the cameras together through the genlock port. Genlock will sync the scan lines on the cameras, so you won't see a scan line jump when you're cutting back and forth between two cameras.

[Emery Wells]

I can't show you cause I'm in LA, and not on a red job now, but I have been successfully jammed from the audio guys with b15. I think they synced me off of their digi-nagra?

amrrahmy, you can just sync the timecode on all cameras by "jamming" te cameras with a timecode generator. A second step which yo may want to onsider is genlock. Not sure if it actually works with these things, but you should be able to genlock the cameras together through the genlock port. Genlock will sync the scan lines on the cameras, so you won't see a scan line jump when you're cutting back and forth between two cameras.

Are you *sure* its working? Have you shot a TC slate, pulled a clip into RC and compared the RC TC readout to the slate? Also, have you tried 29.97 or only 23.98?

[ayarbro]

Haven't pulled stills, but have held the slate open to the timecode on the lcd and they match. I have, sometimes, noticed a drift. At which time you just re-jam...just like a slate. The trick I think I'll use on the next job is to just velcro a clock-it box on the side and have it constantly feeding the RED, so that it won't drift any longer. (That way I can get lazy with my slates ;).)

[Emery Wells]

Haven't pulled stills, but have held the slate open to the timecode on the lcd and they match. I have, sometimes, noticed a drift. At which time you just re-jam...just like a slate. The trick I think I'll use on the next job is to just velcro a clock-it box on the side and have it constantly feeding the RED, so that it won't drift any longer. (That way I can get lazy with my slates ;).)

Thats what we do. This is especially helpful on multicam shoots because you don't have to keep track of every time an AC power cycles the camera. However, we have had no success in B15.

Have you tried 29.97?

[Emery Wells]

Haven't pulled stills, but have held the slate open to the timecode on the lcd and they match. I have, sometimes, noticed a drift. At which time you just re-jam...just like a slate. The trick I think I'll use on the next job is to just velcro a clock-it box on the side and have it constantly feeding the RED, so that it won't drift any longer. (That way I can get lazy with my slates ;).)

Thats what we do. This is especially helpful on multicam shoots because you don't have to keep track of every time an AC power cycles the camera. However, we have had no success in B15.

Have you tried 29.97?

[Andrew M.]

Thats what we do. This is especially helpful on multicam shoots because you don't have to keep track of every time an AC power cycles the camera. However, we have had no success in B15.

Have you tried 29.97?

Did you have success with it on other builds?

[jimhare]

Can this be done wirelessly? I do multi-cam shoots and run guys all around a live theater.

[cinepost35]

I would use a Deneke SBT or Ambient Lockit on each camera.

[Andrew M.]

Can this be done wirelessly? I do multi-cam shoots and run guys all around a live theater.

Ambients small boxes have AA bateries in it and run for long time on it.
Do not need to go wirelessly, you sinc it once every 24h and it keep sinc with one frame accuracy for the whole day.

[Stuart English]

Are you *sure* its working? Have you shot a TC slate, pulled a clip into RC and compared the RC TC readout to the slate? Also, have you tried 29.97 or only 23.98?

Yes, we test this on every build, so P.M me and we'll see what might be up...

[ayarbro]

My setup had 23.98 on the camera and 29.97 on the slate and jamming device.

I imagine you could wirelessly feed the genlock signal through a comtek but how would you know if you loose the signal?

[filip kovcin]

Yes, we test this on every build, so P.M me and we'll see what might be up...

Stuart,

did you test also with 25 frames? it looks that we have some problems with timecode drifting here in PAL world. (build 16)
can you suggest WHAT you will need to send you - to have as much info as needed?

thank you,

filip

[filip kovcin]

one more thing.
i can see that there is undocumented (if i am not wrong) icon on LCD monitor.
it's similar to chain/links.
it looks that this is connected with jam sync. can anyone explain this in more detail - because we cannot find simple answer - it's behavior is difficult to track. (looks different on same setups/connections when reproduced few times)

thank you,

filip

[Conrad Hunziker]

Not sure what you are trying to achieve but generally one would jamsync TC from an external source however I have not have had any success with Jam Syncing in B15 but I must be the only one because Ive never heard anyone else say anything about it.

A beer for anyone that can show me how they have successfully jam synced in B15.

Go to the project -> timecode menu and make sure Jam is checked (enabled)

Then plug in a TC source via the lemo 5 pin cable. Ensure that the source is setup to send TC at the same frame rate as your base recording - i.e. 23.98, 24, 25, etc. Also ensure that the lemo is wired correctly - pin 1 ground, pin 2 TC in positive. In you need, you can also hook pin 3 to TC in neutral (for balenced TC sources)

Ive done it on a variety of shows, build 15 and 16.

[Conrad Hunziker]

Haven't pulled stills, but have held the slate open to the timecode on the lcd and they match. I have, sometimes, noticed a drift. At which time you just re-jam...just like a slate. The trick I think I'll use on the next job is to just velcro a clock-it box on the side and have it constantly feeding the RED, so that it won't drift any longer. (That way I can get lazy with my slates ;).)

Im not sure this will work. I have noticed that once a TC is locked (with the icon) on the red, it doesnt appear to accept any new TC signals. In one instance I had a synced the red and shot a couple of takes, before sound decided that they were going to change TC (dont ask me why). So I attempted to re-jam the red, but it would not accept the new TC. I had to go disable the Jam feature in the menus, then re-enable it for it to get the new correct TC.

But at the very least, you will have instant TC on new batteries.

[Conrad Hunziker]

one more thing.
i can see that there is undocumented (if i am not wrong) icon on LCD monitor.
it's similar to chain/links.
it looks that this is connected with jam sync. can anyone explain this in more detail - because we cannot find simple answer - it's behavior is difficult to track. (looks different on same setups/connections when reproduced few times)

thank you,

filip

Its always behaved the same for us. After jamming the TC, on the first new record, it lights up. It stays until the battery change. It wont appear until after we hit the record button the first time after having jammed TC.

[filip kovcin]

Photocon,

thank you for response. will try it in the morning STEP by STEP - including battery change and start/stop button.

maybe i am making something wrong...


filip

[Stuart English]

Yes, give it a try, its been verified to work on Build 15 and 16... so something is up..

[Andrew M.]

Im not sure this will work. I have noticed that once a TC is locked (with the icon) on the red, it doesnt appear to accept any new TC signals. In one instance I had a synced the red and shot a couple of takes, before sound decided that they were going to change TC (dont ask me why). So I attempted to re-jam the red, but it would not accept the new TC. I had to go disable the Jam feature in the menus, then re-enable it for it to get the new correct TC.

But at the very least, you will have instant TC on new batteries.

No, you just have to press record button for couple of seconds.
Jam sync is performed at the beginning of each clip, that makes sense since we want to be sinced each and every time we start recording.
So don't expect to see corrected TC once camera will get offsinc, till you press the record button.

Lock is done constantly though.

[David Battistella]

A beer for anyone that can show me how they have successfully jam synced in B15.


B15 3.2.5
We just shot three cameras for a 2hr concert with no drift and the slate matches the tc on three sources.

We used denecke boxes 23.98 and a TC slate. Everything was locked tight. Every take. every camera.

http://www.denecke.com/Products/tcgenerators/tcgenerators.htm#SBT

We staggered the roll to keep the takes short and we did not miss a beat.

Net time I am in NYC, I will take you up on that beer. :)

David

[filip kovcin]

ok, my mistake...

simple - as stated eariler by Andrew- need to press rec button at least for a while.

everything looks good now.
sorry for messing...


filip

[filip kovcin]

PLEASE TAKE A NOTE - MY PREVIOUS MAIL STATING THAT EVERYTHING IS OK - WAS SENT BEFORE UPDATING TO NEW VERSION OF BUILD 16 !!!


I hope that this is again my mistake, but cannot say right now - we updated to newest build yesterday night b16 (3.2.1) and discovered that jam sinc is not working.

yes, we have strange situation with jamming BEFORE updating, and the problem was solved. that was MY mistake, not previous build version's.

today is something different. no posibility to jam at all. we tested different combinations with camera, but until now - nothig happened.

camera works in 25 frames mode, 2:1, RC 36. build 16 v 3.2.1


IMPORTANT - CAMERA IS WORKING WITH DEVA SOUND RECORDER