Dalsa goes wide with 4K

[Mardi_Gras]

Sorry if you guys have seen this before. Just couldn't resist sharing it.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003569221

[Andrew M.]

And how they will get 60fps out of theirs CCD sensor?
I hope that they will use 12 or 16 MP sensor version this time.

As to the new lenses, I think someone see what I do see, we need completely new lenses for 4K format. I don’t like though the anamorphic design. Gives you extra stop or less of light and extra vertical resolution but I can find any other advantage to go anamorphic.

Anybody knows other advantages of anamorphic lenses except of these two above?

20 minutes solid state recorder, interesting.

[Ivan G]

The new Flashmag on-board recorder is being designed to accommodate raw, uncompressed 4k data from the Origin II and Evolution 4k cameras.

WTF! Is this correct?

[Bruce Allen]

I guess it has to do SOMETHING cool if you're paying such a lot of money for it. I saw the Dalsa at the last Cinegear and liked it, probably what they say sounds legit... I agree 7 lbs lighter is good :)

Of course I instantly am wondering what their sensor aspect ratio is - if it is the same as Red's, then that would mean that the "anamorphic" lenses have less of a squash than usual - which would mean that we could use them on a Red? They are PL mount too, right? I do agree that if you're shooting 4K, perhaps the extra vertical res is unnecessary. I've always said I'd be happy with 3K - getting a 2.35 image out of the Red sensor would equate to roughly that, right?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Andrew M.]

One of the advantages of CCD Bayer versus CMOS Bayer is its uniformity in the photo-sensing levels per row of data and better coverage ratio of the surface, almost 100%
However row uniformity shows up as stripes on the picture if it is bit off, where the CMOS will have random uniformity noise that looks smooth for the eye but it is lowering the dynamic range. The best way to se it is to limit histogram of uniform color to very narrow band. On CCD you get stripes of uniformity or rather lack of it, on the CMOS you get the grain. But power consumption and heat dissipation of CCD is prohibitive for small format camera.

[David Newman]

Of course I instantly am wondering what their sensor aspect ratio is - if it is the same as Red's, then that would mean that the "anamorphic" lenses have less of a squash than usual - which would mean that we could use them on a Red?

The Dalsa sensor is a little wider aspect than Red's, it has less vertical, basically as a 4k by 2k sensor, still the lens might work.

[Michael Schrengohst]

If you look on Dalsa website - "Trident" - Cinematographer: David Stump, ASC
There is a man that could probably give a comparision between the new Dalsa camera and RED.
I have looked at some of the frames. Very Nice.
If RED can come close to that quality I would be very happy.

[IAN SUN]

I don't know... the image seems quite noisy to me with a significant edge sharpening.

[Michael Schrengohst]

Which one are you looking at? Look at the upper left astronaunt photo.
Yes of course we have no idea what the workflow was to capture those frames and we have no idea if Photoshop was used to help them out.

[IAN SUN]

Trident_ext_00.tif This is a low contrast exterior. If you look at it actual pixels you'll see all kinds of noise. Much more so than anything I've sen from RED.

[Graeme Nattress]

In Trident, You'll also notice, in the blue, a complete dead column...

Graeme

[Corrado Silveri]

Trident_ext_00.tif This is a low contrast exterior. If you look at it actual pixels you'll see all kinds of noise. Much more so than anything I've sen from RED.

I second you.
The stunning quality, the absence of noise (even in the low low light) that I've seen in the Redone's shots, makes me think to a digital slr, not a Video/Cine camera.

Those beautiful pictures that I've seen from the Dalsa website looks like they are produced from a extraordinary, stunning, ultra HD... Video/Cine camera.

My two cents.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

guys guys.. red is the best.. come on.. no need to even compare:)

[Zakaree Sandberg]

where are u seeing the stills?

[Corrado Silveri]

Here:

http://www.dalsa.com/dc/4K_gallery/4K_gallery.asp

[Andrew M.]

Guys, how you can compare 8MP Bayer to RED's 12MP Bayer
Don't forget that not all CCD cameras have 3XCCD
Dalsa is not 3 CCDs it is Bayer like RED CMOS and it is 8MP like Canon 20D.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

those are some sweet images!

[Andrew M.]

those are some sweet images!

So if those are sweet images imagine the improvement of 12/8 ratio once you see it on RED.

Don’t forget that Bayer sensors are very nice in green.

[Tom Lowe]

Are they offering any significant onboard compression? Most of us don't need uncompressed 4k shooting on location.

[Graeme Nattress]

I think their raw frames are 4k x 2k x 2 bytes, so that's 16MB per frame, so even with 2:1 compression, you're at 8MB / frame, or 192MB/s.

Graeme

[Tom Lowe]

Why wouldn't they offer better compression?

Very few cinema folks on any kind of budget would want to deal with that much data.

[Zack Birlew]

That looks awesome and all, but is it going to be $17,500? Hmmm...

Any way it turns out, I'll be finishing up, like, my 30th RED 4K film by the time 2008 roles around!:weight_lift:

Still, the best thing sounds like the anamorphic lenses, that would be awesome if they were reasonably priced (ie. Not $30,000-$50,000 per lense).

[Graeme Nattress]

Say you cropped to 2.35:1 rather than use the full 4096x2304 on an anamorphic lens - you'd have to crop 561 pixels out of 2304, taking you to 4096x1742. You could project that on a 4k projector as is too, with no bother. You'd have no problems for VFX as you're square pixel throughout, and you've got slop top and bottom to reframe as necessary.

OK - now do it anamorphic. What do you gain - you get 561 lines, but you can't project on the 4k projector any more without scaling, and hence loosing that "advantage". VFX is now a pain. And you don't get the real 'scope look on your lens flares and bokeh as you're not doing the full 'scope stretch.

Graeme

[Graeme Nattress]

Compression is tricky to do right, and the engineering to do all that data in real time is non-trivial!

Graeme

[tj williams]

Was just talking to a friend in LA who works now as a tech on the Viper/filmStrm
He seems to be getting quite a bit of work. He worked on a shoot with the Dalsa and couldn't say enough bad about it. The work flow is appearantly very kludgy.
I guess I agree with a post on another thread the RED is probably in competition with the Arri D20. cheaper/easier/better/ how good does it get?

[Alex D. da Silva]

Dalsa goes wide for 4K...

Yes, yes really wide.
Have anybody actually seem that camera?
It's the size of a Mini Cooper.

WIDE!

[Justin Anderson]

I think their raw frames are 4k x 2k x 2 bytes, so that's 16MB per frame, so even with 2:1 compression, you're at 8MB / frame, or 192MB/s.

Graeme

Holy datastorage, Batman!