Solution for getting audio from r3d into Avid on PC. [Archive]

Sean

06-07-2008, 01:10 PM

As we await some kind of Avid PC solution for audio, here's something you can do in a pinch:

After much trial and error, I found a freeware program that is able to read the 32-bit audio file within the r3d QuickTime proxies. Avid won't accept the 32-bit audio files. And it's difficult finding a program that will convert the 32-bit audio to a wav file that Avid will accept.

There's a great little freeware program called Front End Convert Drop from K-werkx Inc. I downloaded it from www.download.com. Anyhow, you can actually drag an r3d QT proxy directly onto this little application and then choose to convert the file to Wave audio. And voila, you can now import the audio into Avid. I'm sure there are more pro-audio solutions that will do the trick, but this one is free and the only one I could find that would actually read the 32-bit Big Endian file within the proxy and convert it (realplayer pro might do it, because it seemed to play the file, but I wasn't going to pay $35 to upgrade that crappy software from the non-pro version).

At least there's a PC solution for exporting audio that you can manually synch in a PC Avid to the video you've exported from RedCine.

MichaelP

06-07-2008, 03:50 PM

Excellent - did it preserve timecode or just make a WAV file rather than BWAV? Once could always edit the metacheater ALE file track column and bring that in to get the metadata then do an AutoSync in Avid for VA clips.

Michael

Sean

06-07-2008, 08:07 PM

Hm. Good question, Michael. I'm not sure. All the clips have timecode that start at 1:00:00:00, and so does ththe audio. So maybe these r3d's aren't files that can determine whether timecode is preserved or not. I'm only just starting to get up to speed on dealing with timecode/offline/online. Speaking of which, when you're talking about ALEs and XMLs, etc., is there a reference publication that might offer me an Avid primer on the subject? I haven't found anything introductory yet.

Terry Wester

06-07-2008, 09:28 PM

Sean,

Thanks I will give this a try. We have been using Audio Converter (http://www.riverpast.com/en/prod/audioconverter/) from River Past the trial will do 2 minute clips, but I was just about to buy it. I think I will give this a trial first. I don't think it will to BWAV files either.

As we await some kind of Avid PC solution for audio, here's something you can do in a pinch:

After much trial and error, I found a freeware program that is able to read the 32-bit audio file within the r3d QuickTime proxies. Avid won't accept the 32-bit audio files. And it's difficult finding a program that will convert the 32-bit audio to a wav file that Avid will accept.

There's a great little freeware program called Front End Convert Drop from K-werkx Inc. I downloaded it from www.download.com. Anyhow, you can actually drag an r3d QT proxy directly onto this little application and then choose to convert the file to Wave audio. And voila, you can now import the audio into Avid. I'm sure there are more pro-audio solutions that will do the trick, but this one is free and the only one I could find that would actually read the 32-bit Big Endian file within the proxy and convert it (realplayer pro might do it, because it seemed to play the file, but I wasn't going to pay $35 to upgrade that crappy software from the non-pro version).

At least there's a PC solution for exporting audio that you can manually synch in a PC Avid to the video you've exported from RedCine.

Terry Wester

06-07-2008, 09:49 PM

Michael,

Are you saying If all my quicktimes are named the same as my wav files then I could just edit the metacheater ALE file and find and replace .mov with .wav and save to a new ALE. Then batch import both .mov and .wav into the Avid with the ALEs and run an AutoSync? I will give this a try next week.

Thanks, I have my fingers crossed that this will work.

Excellent - did it preserve timecode or just make a WAV file rather than BWAV? Once could always edit the metacheater ALE file track column and bring that in to get the metadata then do an AutoSync in Avid for VA clips.

Michael

MichaelP

06-08-2008, 05:35 AM

Correct. Batch import wants the Name in the bin to match, but AutoSync only looks to the common timecode in any one of several columns. In this case they would both be in the Start.

Michael

Terry Wester

06-09-2008, 08:50 AM

Michael,

You are awesome. I owe you a beer, tequella.... something. What is your poison?

I just put all the audio and video in the same bin and selected Bin>AutoSync with source timecode and wabam 36 clips with matching audio ready to edit.

Thank you, this was the last laborious task in the Red/Avid process, and it can only get better from here. :)

MichaelP

06-09-2008, 10:45 AM

Excellent! I am glad this worked out for you. The next time I am in Dallas I will take you up on the Tequilla... I can imagine there are some good ones there!

Michael

gbalaji

07-12-2008, 09:22 PM

Seth Larney

07-13-2008, 10:37 PM

Hey Terry,

I'd love to know how this worked out for you? Do you have a smooth workflow for creating AV clips now? Just getting to putting this part of the workflow together myself.

Thanks!
S

MichaelP

07-14-2008, 04:20 AM

The new REDrushes has a checkbox to make the QT references "Avid compatible". Also the next manintenance release has the audio fixed with the 32bit packed audio supported.

Michael

gbalaji

07-14-2008, 04:41 AM

The new REDrushes has a checkbox to make the QT references "Avid compatible". Also the next manintenance release has the audio fixed with the 32bit packed audio supported.

Michael

Michael,

Redrushes only creates QT reference which has sound which is not possible to import in Avid at this point of time (Avid doesn't support 32bit audio as of now) and when a create a prores422 / aviddnxhd qt movie there is no audio, which requires another process of sound sync in avid with separate audio tracks splitted from qt ref which doesn't have timecode.

Seth Larney

07-14-2008, 06:21 AM

The new REDrushes has a checkbox to make the QT references "Avid compatible". Also the next manintenance release has the audio fixed with the 32bit packed audio supported.

Michael

Thanks Michael, REDRushes in Mac only though, right? We can pull a Mac machine to do this, but what would be really great is if we can get our dailes into Avid via Scratch. The reason is so that we can use Scratch's tools to render burnt in timecode and 2.39 frame guides (essential) .. Scratch's burn in tools are really awesome.. also, we currently don't need a mac in our pipeline. Requiring one just to render dailes into the Avid is a shame.

I haven't really checked out REDRushes yet though.. great to know this is an option now, cheers.

Seth Larney

07-14-2008, 06:22 AM

MichaelP

07-14-2008, 06:32 AM

Once you get audio support into Scratch, you could always do a real time output to tape as well reducing overall transcode and ingets times to ~2x real time.

Michael

Seth Larney

07-14-2008, 08:01 AM

Thanks Michael,

We are attempting to put together a tapeless workflow, so the purchase of a deck for just that purpose is not all that favorable at the moment.

Just so that I understand, are you aware what the problem is with the 'fast import' and feel that it might take a while to be remedied? Or .. ? Any insight into what we might be able to expect on that front would be very helpful. At least then we can put together a workflow and know that it is a 'temp' flow or whatever..

Once we get audio in Scratch I can't really imagine a more convenient workflow than being able to spit dailes out of Scratch for Avid as DNxHD to be fast imported.. we really want to keep it all one the one platform/package and I can't think of a reason that javing Scratch manage all of this (and in a file based workflow) is not the right way to go. (Going tapeless all the way is a very attractive workflow right now)

Thanks mate and thanks for being so active here on the boards, I can't tell you how valuable it is for us to have personal contact and assistance like we do with you.

Cheers,
Seth.

MichaelP

07-15-2008, 06:48 AM

I am waitng to hear back from engineering as to the exact nature of the issue and when it will be addressed based on the engineering roadmap in place. As soon as I hear something, I will post here for all to know.

Michael

gbalaji

07-15-2008, 08:40 AM

Note: I am just talking about fast importing DNxHD's into Avid from Scratch in general.. I realize that we need to wait until Assimilate offers audio ingest from R3D before we can get Audio along with that. In this sense REDRushes may be the way to go for now, thanks again.

Sorry for interfering in your discussion with Michael.

Even RedRushes cannot 1. export audio and 2. Avid DNXHD Codec at this point of time.

MichaelP

07-16-2008, 08:21 AM

I have imported picture and sound from QT references made from REDrushes, so I would need more detail as tow what are you are seeing. RedCine only offers a default DNxHD creation on export at this time. Work is being done to get them access to all the data rates from the codec header file ID.

Michael

gbalaji

07-16-2008, 09:02 AM

MichaelP

07-16-2008, 05:35 PM

Yes, R3D for input, multiple format output.

Michael

Jason Diamond

07-16-2008, 05:43 PM

meaning RED Rushes will only export audio if you use it to generate new proxies ala Red Alert! not DNxHD or other actual QT.

Paul Rosckes

08-07-2008, 09:43 AM

The new REDrushes has a checkbox to make the QT references "Avid compatible". Also the next manintenance release has the audio fixed with the 32bit packed audio supported.

Michael

Hi Michael,

Is this audio fix in a version 3.0 maintenance release? Because we're running 2.8.4 (which is the latest 2.8 release), and I cannot get ANY audio from a RED QT proxy to import into the Avid without getting an error message. This is a huge pain because someone either has to babysit the import and hit OK for each clip. Or, we have to run through a complex procedure of:

1. Batch exporting AIFFs from Compressor.
2. Deleting all the audio tracks from the QT proxies.
3. Importing the QT video and AIFF audio separately.
4. Grouping the video and audio together in the bin.

This is probably the biggest problem with our current workflow as far as getting clips into the Avid for offline. The process of creating a pull-list and rendering out DPX sequences has a whole different set of issues. :)

Thanks,
Paul

MichaelP

08-07-2008, 10:20 AM

It should be part of a 3.0.x (maybe 2) which is due in Q3. I need to check to see if it slipped into the 3.0.1 which is already out.

Michael

brainburst

08-07-2008, 02:51 PM

Is there a central unified RED to Avid document someplace or do we have to scour through all of these sometimes contradictory message boards and cobble something together?

MichaelP

08-07-2008, 05:31 PM

It's being completed as we speak. It is going through final review.

Michael

Nukki_L

08-12-2008, 03:58 AM

Using Front End Convert Drop and am looking to see if there is any batch convert function here. If not, is there any other workflow which supplies batch convert from the proxy QTs to wavs?

Thanks,

Nukki

MichaelP

08-12-2008, 10:20 AM

I don't believe the proxy QT's will work on a PC since there is no RED QT codec for the PC at this time.

Michael

Sean

08-12-2008, 01:42 PM

I don't believe the proxy QT's will work on a PC since there is no RED QT codec for the PC at this time.

Michael

The proxies WERE working on PC with that program, Front End Convert.

I haven't tried Build 16 with audio yet though.

And unfortunately, no batch processing either. You gotta do the clips one at a time. Not practical at all. Just sort of an "in a pinch" solution. Not for a whole project though probably.

EDIT: it still works with Build 16 perfectly well. Which leads me to presume it still works with the proxies from R3Ds generated by Build 17 too.

MichaelP

08-12-2008, 04:30 PM

Interesting... have you tried MPEG Streamclip from www.squared5.com ?

Michael

Dylan Reeve

08-12-2008, 05:45 PM

The audio track in the RED QT Reference files are accessible on a PC as they are standard PCM audio.

The video track is not. So any PC application capable of opening a QT file and extracting audio from it should be able to pull the audio out of the QT Reference files.

Christoffer Glans

10-26-2008, 06:15 AM

Back to my question, do any of you have a r3d file WITH sound that I could try out to be able to find a workable workflow? I'm able to edit perfectly using redcine -metacheater - Avid - EDL (I'm not onlining, I'm only the offline editor)

But I seriously need sound and I DON'T have a macbook, only a PC.
And I cannot wait until "the future" comes. People spoken about "support in the future" for some time now and there ain't time for this, I need solutions now.

Whats working? how do I get timecodebased audiofiles that will link with the footage in Avid and work for the EDL and online edit?

gbalaji

10-26-2008, 06:41 AM

redcine 3.15 added audio support

Christoffer Glans

10-26-2008, 06:46 AM

Hehe, I just saw that :D
But I still don't know how it works, I need to test the new RedCine with a late r3d file that has embedded audio...

MichaelP

10-26-2008, 08:16 AM

I found this:
http://quicktime-mov-converter-pro.iosof-technology-inc.qarchive.org/_download2.html

It can extract the soundtrack from a .mov file as WAV. Unfortunately it does not do BWF which would contain the timecode, but since it saves out as the same file name, you can use the ALE created from MetaCheater with the metadata, modify the tracks in Avid to be Audio only then merge as you do with picture. Since the timecodes match exactly, select all V and A only clips and do a an AutoSync based on START timecode. You will have new subclips that are now VA for editing.

All that is needed is a utility to search and copy the QT files into a single directory making the batch process easier.

Michael

MichaelP

10-26-2008, 10:31 AM

I just tried it from a .mov from the camera and it does work. :(

I'll keep playing and see what I can find.

Michael

Christoffer Glans

10-28-2008, 04:26 AM

redcine 3.15 added audio support

I was happy first, but now I realize that it isn't even audio output. Without the ability to output audio, the feature is quite useless, sorry to say.

wisecut

10-29-2008, 10:10 AM

The audio import didn´t work. And I didn´t know why.

I found out that REDcam records Audio in 32 Sample bit depth.
And Avid only works in 16bit/depth or even 24 bit/depth.

I also, was "just" the offlne Editor and I had to find out a solution for me and my project.

I did this:
- in Avid
- Audio Project Settings
- I changed "Sample Bit Depth" to 16 bit (if not default)
- than i changed in the Import Settings - in the Options window to
"Convert source sample rate to project sample rate on import"
and
"Convert source sample bit depth to project sample bit depth on import"

-Import files.
Then it worked out for me.

Sorry, but can´t remember if I it was a MC 2.7.2 or a MC 3.0.

So please check out yourself. It really depends on so many features.

I hope I could help anyone.

greetz,
dave

wisecut

10-29-2008, 10:14 AM

after changing all the settings,
I was able to import he 3rd (video) with the embedded audio.

good luck,
dave

Christoffer Glans

10-29-2008, 11:20 AM

What audio? Are you talking about PC only with RedCine or RedAlert?
I need the quicktime files that I import to have audio, but they don't because RedCine can't export QT's with sound.

There's no problem getting sound through a Mac/Avid system, but we need a solution for PC only.

I know Avid in and out, but this has everything to do with the transcoding of the r3d files. Avid doesn't have r3d support yet.