Inevitable Scratch/Build 16 thread

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Sooooo, any idea when Scratch will support Build 16 footage? I am all geeked up to see full quality debayers of the lower noise B16 clips.

BTW, what about access to the audio right from the r3d files. Days, weeks, months???

Not trying to be a pill but I am an American and we have this really annoying "I want it all and I want it now" thing going, frightfully full of ourselves - I know :shifty: apologies in advance.

[M Most]

Sooooo, any idea when Scratch will support Build 16 footage? I am all geeked up to see full quality debayers of the lower noise B16 clips.

BTW, what about access to the audio right from the r3d files. Days, weeks, months???

Not trying to be a pill but I am an American and we have this really annoying "I want it all and I want it now" thing going, frightfully full of ourselves - I know :shifty: apologies in advance.

Not speaking for Assimilate, but....

The Red node for Scratch is written and supplied by Red. There are some screen displays in the program that are modified by Assimilate when new controls are exposed, but for the most part the functionality is in lockstep with that of Redcine, which I believe uses the same node, or a version of it. In general, there are more frequent updates of Scratch than there are of Redcine (at least to beta users), so it is possible that such functionality would actually appear in Scratch first. In any case, it is likely that Red will post a new release version Red Node for Scratch as soon as they feel it's ready - probably for the next major release of Scratch, but possibly before.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Since my niche at the moment is working with Red files I have chosen to get ScratchCine and put it on hardware robust enough to handle a full version of Scratch when business conditions warrant such a move. This means that a big part of the upside for me of ScratchCine over RedCine is speed and reliability. Assuming that Michael's supposition is correct, that the Red specific node fills essentially the same role with either application, then I have to ask...

:ranting2:
Why is the curve tool available in the free app but not in the $17,500 ScratchCine?

I understand product differentiation strategies and I don't expect the rockin' toolset that is in the full Scratch suite for only $17,500 (well, actually I do think that close to 20K for software is a lot of bank and I am kind of a cheapskate but that's my problem and I really do want Lucas to be able to feed his kids - but I digress) but I would at least expect to get the functionality of the freeware. As a long time Photoshop guy I really love the power of finessing a curve.

:greedy: IMHO one of the upgrades that comes with my investment in ScratchCine should be a curves interface that actually offers greater control than in the free RedCine. Lucas, Tony, all you Assimilate guys - you know I love ya' but it needed to be said, rant over.

[M Most]

Since my niche at the moment is working with Red files I have chosen to get ScratchCine and put it on hardware robust enough to handle a full version of Scratch when business conditions warrant such a move. This means that a big part of the upside for me of ScratchCine over RedCine is speed and reliability. Assuming that Michael's supposition is correct, that the Red specific node fills essentially the same role with either application, then I have to ask...

:ranting2:
Why is the curve tool available in the free app but not in the $17,500 ScratchCine?


Color correction toolsets are not part of the Red node. They are part of Assimilate's code, and in the case of Scratch, one needs to keep in mind that color correction is a module, one part of a larger package. In the case of Redcine, basic control over color was part of the product design. Curves were only added to the Scratch color correction toolset in the last year, as they are more a part of a "desktop color correction" mindset than a professional one, which has typically centered on the "lift, gamma, gain" motif. Granted, they are very useful, particularly when dealing with Raw images that have no inherent built in gamma. I guess what I'm saying is that the comparison between the two should take into account what each was designed for, not a feature by feature comparison of tools that were designed for different purposes.

Having said all that, I basically agree with you. ;-).

[Emery Wells]

B15 caused some issues with realtime support.

See thread here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13690

Tony mentioned they are working on correcting these issues for B16. Audio is working in a beta build of Scratch right now although not for R3D files. Getting it to work at all is the first step though.

[Peace Villow]

Curves were only added to the Scratch color correction toolset in the last year, as they are more a part of a "desktop color correction" mindset than a professional one, which has typically centered on the "lift, gamma, gain" motif. Granted, they are very useful, particularly when dealing with Raw images that have no inherent built in gamma.

This is interesting mmost.
Can you explain it more the relationship between custom curves and RAW files?
Do you think using custom curves when dealing with RAW image is essential?

Thanks.

[Lucas Wilson]

B15 caused some issues with realtime support.

See thread here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13690

Tony mentioned they are working on correcting these issues for B16. Audio is working in a beta build of Scratch right now although not for R3D files. Getting it to work at all is the first step though.

Hi Emery,

Just wanted to clarify this...

Audio has been working for a long time in SCRATCH. : )

What has changed in a recent beta build is...
1) ASIO drivers are now supported, which opens SCRATCH up to a much wider range of audio cards for professional applications.
2) Per-clip audio - we have started down the path towards full per-clip audio support. Previously, SCRATCH could load one audio file per CONstruct and that was it. You can now load individual audio files per clip.

And realtime for R3D is only an issue for 4K 16:9 at 1/2 rez high. All other formats on your platform are realtime, yes?

Tx,

Lucas

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Perhaps I am oversimplifying but to me a color corrector is essentially a proc amp taken to the next level. In that context the lift, gamma, gain approach makes sense.

I am a noob with Scratch and have been having a blast playing with the JLCooper Spectrum control surface - the mindset AND the toolset is becoming much more intuitive every day and I can see that with another month, or 50 :wink: of practice, I could grade very quickly, and as well as my eye/talent permits.

That said, I have spent years processing stills in Photoshop using the curves tool - shaping each channel individually, as I learned from Bill Phillips, to dramatically enhance images. Careful management of curve shapes is a powerful artistic tool. Call it a desktop paradigm if you like, but I contend there is great power in curves. Just my two pennies.

[M Most]

This is interesting mmost.
Can you explain it more the relationship between custom curves and RAW files?


Color correction is only relevant to the display you happen to be using. All displays have a gamma curve because human vision is not linear, although electronic capture devices are. If you're dealing with a "standard" video signal, this gamma is built in because the camera applies it during capture. But if you're dealing with RAW information, supplied directly from a linear sensor, you must apply a gamma correction to make it look the way you expect it to. That is the purpose of the various LUTs (including but not limited to the Rec709 LUT), but it can also be accomplished fairly quickly by using a curve control. The downside of using a curve is that what you're doing is not scientific, it's based on your eyes and the characteristics of the particular display you're looking at - so it's easy to walk yourself into an inappropriate correction. That's also why correcting a RAW still from a digital SLR and making it look good on your LCD monitor doesn't mean that a print will look the same way - unless you're using a color management system when you're doing it (like ColorSync on a Mac, or Adobe Gamma on a PC).


Do you think using custom curves when dealing with RAW image is essential?


No, not in the hands of a competent colorist. I've corrected quite a bit of Red material in Scratch, and only rarely have I used curves. Sometimes, but not often. Usually I work directly from the linear light RAW image and apply a default gamma for the color space I'm working in and go from there.