why jim kicks ass..

[Zakaree Sandberg]

just read cinematography threads.. I am a member but if u check i only have 2 posts and they were in defense of red.. but i love reading Jims post over there..

[Tonaci Tran]

its like a soap opera over there full of drama and intrigue. That board will grow very silent ..when movie..after movie is credited with being shot by RED.

The ONLY thing you can knock red on is it's infancy. After it matures and after they have the service and support worked out....it's pretty much bulletproof. The list of pros is exhausting and the fact that it is modular..don't know what other complaints they can think up a year from now.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

its clear some of these "DP'S" and i quote because i dont see many imdb credits.. Not that i have any but im not a techy dude trying to explain to the world how i know everything about DPing.. anyways... i feel they are in fear of a new generation of cost compliant film makers taking the reigns on future features.

[Rick Darge]

I just think they didn't have the balls to put a deposit down and now they are in deep regret..

[Zakaree Sandberg]

yah that too.. and so they are just trying to save face by being bitches

[Alister Robbie]

I was just having a bit of a read over there, and damn Jim, you really do enjoy shit stirring don't you? It looks like you post over there more than here.

Nothing like poking the bear when things get a little boring ? :-)

[Tom Lowe]

any links to some of these battles?

[Michael Schrengohst]

My thinks a wee bit of pot stirin is always in order before the feast.

[Michael Schrengohst]

I just think they didn't have the balls to put a deposit down and now they are in deep regret..

RED likes to throw big balls

[Alister Robbie]

These two were the ones that I saw.....

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=22164

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=22176

[Zakaree Sandberg]

i really wish there was a black list haha:) it would be soo funny if some of these dudes ended up seeing the footy this produces and want one or want to use one and they get blacked out

[Michael Schrengohst]

All the high-end work in commercials and such is big conspiracy anyway. They can have a black list. Kinda like the RED scare of the 50's.
Most of the high end guys talk of the back-stabbing and cut throat things they have done to get where they are at. Time to turn out the lights.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

no doubt about it.. hwood is back stab after back stab.. i think everyone in the original red army will be cool with each other which is cool..

[wshultz]

Fatigue them all!

[Andrew Benz]

Fatigue them all!

i fell out laughing over that one!

[Zakaree Sandberg]

yah i pissed my self when i saw that

[Mark L. Pederson]

many comments on the c.com are just retarded -

really reminds me of how much the industry thought the only way to edit was with workprint on moviolas and steenbecks -

we didn't have these web forums when non-linear editing hit the market - back in the Lightworks days - pre-avid - pre-FCP -

if we would have - you would have heard all these editors ranting about how editing with computers would be inferior to cutting workprint -

things change - you can count on it -

dinosaurs do not rule the earth anymore ...

[Corrado Silveri]

I just think they didn't have the balls to put a deposit down and now they are in deep regret..

Bang! Hit and sunk.

[Ziggy Uszkurat]

Yknow, the guys on CML are passionate about the business and their role in it. Many are deeply thoughtful people who bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to the debate. No one should be blacklisted or yelled at or called retarded just because they have a different opinion.

Jim robustly defends what Red are doing and the vision they wish to promote -- but I think if you look at Jim's replies and demeanor, it has always been to let the other guy have his say too. Red is not a religion. We don't burn people in the 21st Century for not signing up to exactly what we think.

On the 16th Red is "putting up" - the proof will be out there and people (believers and detractors) can measure it, sample it, check it out, and test the crap out of it and decide whether it's for them or not. That doesn't mean that "flat earthers" will not say its all a conspiracy theory and that the Red Camera is merely a hologram.

So please can we stop this McCarthyesque (anti) RED witch hunt -- the real one damn near destroyed Hollywood, so don't repeat history

Peace
Ziggx

[Zakaree Sandberg]

So please can we stop this McCarthyesque (anti) RED witch hunt

Peace
Ziggx

negative

its not that they are just passionate. they straight up brought a negative attitude to the creation process. most would love to see red fail believe it or not.
They call all of us "FANBOYS"
and i quote "what we have a large group of people, most of them technically illiterate"

yah... they deserve respect from us.... RIIGGHT

[Michael Schrengohst]

The attitudes are driven by fear. Fear that they will lose business, fear that they will have to learn something new, fear that their HDCAM/Film Equipment will be de-valued. Most higher end film/video shooters do not even know about RED. Many will go to NAB and never even know RED exists. RED will have to educate the higher profile shooters - but not by telling them to "fatigue" themselves.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

The attitudes are driven by fear. Fear that they will lose business, fear that they will have to learn something new, fear that their HDCAM/Film Equipment will be de-valued. Most higher end film/video shooters do not even know about RED. Many will go to NAB and never even know RED exists. RED will have to educate the higher profile shooters - but not by telling them to "fatigue" themselves.

BINGO on the reasons for their attitudes.. they are indeed fearful of losing business and knowing that the current set up they own will go down the pipes.

I would though disagree and say that MOST higher end film/video shooters do in fact know about Red.. its a huge hollywood buzz and you have to be def and blind to not know about it.

[Chris Kenny]

Yknow, the guys on CML are passionate about the business and their role in it.

CML is not Cinematography.com. The CML mailing lists are run from Cinematography.net.

I've found CML to be full of knowledgeable professionals who, for the most part, act like it.

Cinematography.com, in contrast... well, there are some people there who know what they're talking about, but the level of viciousness displayed in the Red forum is quite unlike anything I've seen in any other Internet forum. Perhaps after the camera is out the forum will turn toward practical technical issues and this will change, but for now, I'd advise Red fans to stay away.

[Ziggy Uszkurat]

negative

its not that they are just passionate. they straight up brought a negative attitude to the creation process. most would love to see red fail believe it or not.
They call all of us "FANBOYS"
and i quote "what we have a large group of people, most of them technically illiterate"

yah... they deserve respect from us.... RIIGGHT

Zakaree, Do you seriously think anyone can work in this business, as a freelancer and make decent money, for any length of time if they are technically illiterate?

Could I ask you to consider three points:
1. RED can fight their own battles.
2. Your attitude may be in danger of jeopardizing the commercial integrity of RED by your "take no prisoners" attitude.
3. RED is a professional company who would be the first to distance themselves from your inflamatory remarks.

I've worked in this industry for 30 years and if I've learned anything it's to respect the integrity and experience of others. You don't have to agree, just live and let live. Jeez, it's just another fucking technical development - in a year or a month something else will come along and rock the boat. Please, please remember that technology doesn't make films, PEOPLE make films. The tools may change but the skills, commitment, and the ability to work within a team will still make the difference between good movies and bad.
So please chill
Ziggx

[Zakaree Sandberg]

CML is not Cinematography.com. The CML mailing lists are run from Cinematography.net.

I've found CML to be full of knowledgeable professionals who, for the most part, act like it.

Cinematography.com, in contrast... well, there are some people there who know what they're talking about, but the level of viciousness displayed in the Red forum is quite unlike anything I've seen in any other Internet forum. Perhaps after the camera is out the forum will turn toward practical technical issues and this will change, but for now, I'd advise Red fans to stay away.

right i was referring to cinematography.com.. I usually browse it for a good laugh or sometimes ill just hit up the lighting forum and other tech forums.. you can get useful info sometimes

[Ziggy Uszkurat]

CML is not Cinematography.com. The CML mailing lists are run from Cinematography.net.

I've found CML to be full of knowledgeable professionals who, for the most part, act like it.

Cinematography.com, in contrast... well, there are some people there who know what they're talking about, but the level of viciousness displayed in the Red forum is quite unlike anything I've seen in any other Internet forum. Perhaps after the camera is out the forum will turn toward practical technical issues and this will change, but for now, I'd advise Red fans to stay away.

Apologies for my error - however, ongoing flame wars are tedious, dull, unproductive and create a lots of pointless noise. I checked out cinematography.com and yes Chris it's not just Red fans who should stay clear - I think any decent, fair minded person should do the same. It is sad when little, nasty, cliques set themselves up and trash anything and everyone. I hope Reduser.com can stand above this.
Best Wishes
Ziggx

[Emanuel A.]

I hope Reduser.com can stand above this.reduser.net :whistling:

[wshultz]

Oh, I think it's all pretty much in fun on this end. And for a few days more we get to celebrate being part of the first group who caught the vision. I thinks it's much better to blow off steam among ourselves than picking fights with them on "their" forum.

My observation is that anyone over there who's actually done anything tends to be a voice of reason and recognizes Red as another tool. Most, if not all, of the visciousness seems to come from guys who are "about to do our first feature" or students who are often sophomoric by age and experience. (and maybe 1st ACs who think they're special anyway.)

I don't think anyone takes this too seriously so lighten up and allow a little joking around. I understand the desire for "world peace" but it probably aint gonna happen.

[Craig Schober]

Apologies for my error - however, ongoing flame wars are tedious, dull, unproductive and create a lots of pointless noise. I checked out cinematography.com and yes Chris it's not just Red fans who should stay clear - I think any decent, fair minded person should do the same. It is sad when little, nasty, cliques set themselves up and trash anything and everyone. I hope Reduser.com can stand above this.
Best Wishes
Ziggx

i think jim and everyone else knows exactly what they're doing. flame wars (whether you start them, stoke them or comment neutrally on them) give google and overall internet valuable keywords and links for people searching for this technology. the arguments might be juvenile and full of misinformation but i bet anything that a reasonable percentage (maybe 5-10%) of redusers came here because they saw firsthand or heard secondhand (google or a friends email with links) about a mini flame war arguing red vs. sony or digital vs. film. might make for an interesting poll...

i've seen several posts by jim that he could've easily diffused or ended but he instead he did a little baiting. when it comes to cheap and easy marketing of your product in a build-up to nab, it's all fair and i commend him for it.

[wshultz]

I think of it as a team sport and I'm rooting for my team--the "RedUsers". Our opponents are the "Bozos" and "Chuckleheads". After the game we're all gonna sit down and have a few beers. And Wigby's right. Jim has intentially stirred up a little team spirit on both sides.

[Joe Carney]

According to one poster over at cinema...com, reduser is a "video hobbyist site". His condescending tone is indicative of what is wrong over there, and I just lost all respect for him. Showing his true character (or lack of).
In the past..many of the posts were out right libelous. Some incredibly vulgar, using derogative sexual references.

Fortunately, people of real consequence in the business have refrained from such behaviour.

[Alex Boothby]

From the forums of cinematography.com:

My new favorite descriptive for Jim Jannard - "AN INTERNET TROLL! "

That is by far the funniest thing I've read this month....

'We're onto you Jannard - we know the only reason you're building this camera is so you have an excuse to troll our forums....'

Hilarious