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View Full Version : RED 4k & 2k Resolution?


roryhinds
04-11-2007, 02:12 AM
anyone have the spec on what RED's 4k and 2k resolution will be?
Jeremy Hughes
04-11-2007, 04:20 AM
Just search the fourms, you'll find your info.

But...

Both 4K and 2K are 16:9. 4K litterally means 4096. 2K means 2048. Both are horizontal. So that means 4K is 4096x2304 and 2K is 2048x1152.
Anders Holck
04-11-2007, 04:21 AM
DCI specs are 4096x2160 and 2048x1080.
Based on the Red s35 and s16 imager size and the 2540p res, you get to around 4096x2304 and 2048x1152
Zakaree Sandberg
04-11-2007, 07:50 AM
anders did u just ask jim for a card or what? how did u get a red business card?
Im assuming they are like his Oakley cards.. made of aluminum or something?
Evin Grant
04-11-2007, 10:23 AM
Stainless steel. Just like the man himself!
http://www.reduser.net/evin/nikon135mmf2/135f2bokehteast.gif
Zakaree Sandberg
04-11-2007, 01:36 PM
wtf.. am i the only one without a red business card.. do i really need to march over to the main office again!
Ryan Manes
04-11-2007, 01:42 PM
I got one at NAB 2006.

I was asking him about support once the camera was released and he reached into his pocket handed me a card and said if you have any problems call me.
roryhinds
04-12-2007, 07:45 AM
thanks dudes

anyone know what RED's 4.5k (2540p) resolution is?

regards
Rory
Brook Willard
04-12-2007, 07:47 AM
Have you been to RED's website?

It's 4520x2540...
Obin Olson
04-12-2007, 11:54 AM
I am afraid I have misread the Red site, it looks like we can't record Redcode using the full FOV of the super35mm imager?!?!?!?!?!

please tell me I am wrong!!

The most important thing of RED to me is DOF from the super35mm chip size and REDCODE compression.

someone please explain I am wrong and we can record 24fps redcode at super35mm !
Brook Willard
04-12-2007, 12:42 PM
You cannot record 4.5K [S35mm] REDCODE. You can record 4K [35mm] REDCODE.

Compare the sensor size [on the formats page] to your desired film gate size to see if the camera suits you.
Obin Olson
04-12-2007, 01:38 PM
I am number 610 and I guess I expected redcode S35mm for 24fps...oh well...not that I am NOT happy now, just expected this feature for some reason, maybe a firmware upgrade at some point?

For one thing the S35mm format is closer to SLR then regular 35mm, and I am using my nikon lenses on the camera..

I would be VERY happy with 1080p24fps ONLY RedCode scale from the s35mm FOV/DOF
Brook Willard
04-12-2007, 01:59 PM
4.5K S35mm REDCODE RAW has never been possible.

Arri Super 35mm is 23.5mm x 12.7mm
RED 35mm [4K] is 22.2mm x 12.6mm

Arri S35mm diagonal FOV @ 50mm is 29.91˚
RED 35mm (4K) diagonal FOV @50mm is 28.63˚

That's a 4.47% difference.

That means that if you're used to a 50mm lens on Arri Super 35mm, the same lens on a RED ONE @ 4K will have an apparent focal length of 52.2mm.

I wouldn't be concerned.
Jaime Vallés
04-12-2007, 02:03 PM
You can record 4.5K RAW (S35mm) via the RAW port attached to some serious RAID hardware.
Brook Willard
04-12-2007, 02:10 PM
It is important to state that the "4.5K RAW" is uncompressed... it will have a data rate in the realm of 350MB/sec.
Harmonica
04-12-2007, 02:28 PM
I am number 610 and I guess I expected redcode S35mm for 24fps...oh well...not that I am NOT happy now, just expected this feature for some reason, maybe a firmware upgrade at some point?

For one thing the S35mm format is closer to SLR then regular 35mm, and I am using my nikon lenses on the camera..

I would be VERY happy with 1080p24fps ONLY RedCode scale from the s35mm FOV/DOF

Is it really that big of a difference? Remember, with a 35mm lens on the front of your Red you will get 35mm DOF, regardless of how much of the sensor you are using.

As far as FOV goes, yes, there would be a small change in the apparent focal length, but you can always change out the lens or change the focal length the lens (and maybe change the position of the camera) to compensate.

Resolution isn't an issue for you so all these factors, combined with the fact that you can use whatever aspect ratio you want, should make it possible for you to get the same (or at least close enough) results as if you had shot with 4.5k.

If you haven't seen it you might want to check out Homersapien's chart:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=77338&highlight=chart

Hope that helps!
Jeremy Hughes
04-12-2007, 04:25 PM
You are right obin!

But you are wrong too. You just can't do it onboard. I believe, you can do it in REDCINE. Shoot on RED-RAM, only a few seconds worth of video, debayer, it becomes 180GBs in size, process and encode in REDCODE at 16:1 compression ratio, and you got 16GBs for a few seconds of video. That is if RED-RAM will record it. And you could use RED-RAID too.

It comes at a price you know...
Jaime Vallés
04-12-2007, 04:31 PM
You are right obin!

But you are wrong too. You just can't do it onboard. I believe, you can do it in REDCINE. Shoot on RED-RAM, only a few seconds worth of video, debayer, it becomes 180GBs in size, process and encode in REDCODE at 16:1 compression ratio, and you got 16GBs for a few seconds of video.

It comes at a price you know...

Well, this has been suggested in these forums, but we've never actually received confirmation from RED that this is possible.
Anders Holck
04-12-2007, 04:38 PM
This will certainly not be possible with a Red-Ram drive.
Theoretically if you RAID two 2.5" SSD you'll only get a maximum of 130 MB/s sustained, based on the tech specs. That's way short of the 300+ MB/s you need for 4.5k uncompressed.
Jeremy Hughes
04-12-2007, 05:03 PM
This will certainly not be possible with a Red-Ram drive.
Theoretically if you RAID two 2.5" SSD you'll only get a maximum of 130 MB/s sustained, based on the tech specs. That's way short of the 300+ MB/s you need for 4.5k uncompressed.

Ahh. Just the RAID then...
Obin Olson
04-12-2007, 05:03 PM
ohhh..if it's only a few %% less that is fine by me!!

I did not know that! I guess 10-20 times a day on the board is not enough to learn it all....LOL

I call this place REDCRACK!
Brook Willard
04-12-2007, 07:32 PM
Is it really that big of a difference? Remember, with a 35mm lens on the front of your Red you will get 35mm DOF, regardless of how much of the sensor you are using.

Wrong. You will get the DOF "characteristics" of whatever format you are recording. If you're using the S16mm area with a S35mm lens... it doesn't matter. You'll have S16mm DOF "characteristics."
Anders Holck
04-12-2007, 07:34 PM
Deja-vu.....
Brook Willard
04-12-2007, 07:35 PM
Don't worry, generic "FAQ" will be posted tonight. It'll be thin [gets beefier after NAB], but it'll answer these little questions.
Alex Boothby
04-12-2007, 09:32 PM
Don't worry, generic "FAQ" will be posted tonight. It'll be thin [gets beefier after NAB], but it'll answer these little questions.

Fantastic Brook. That's a major public service. Looking forward.
Brook Willard
04-12-2007, 09:45 PM
As promised, I posted the Mini-FAQ (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1487) tonight. As you can see, there is much more to come.
Alex Boothby
04-12-2007, 09:45 PM
There it is. Brook - you rock!
Not a moment too soon.
Obin Olson
04-13-2007, 07:09 AM
good faq, keep building it!

love the images showing the real resolution of film vs red!!!!OH YA!
Harmonica
04-13-2007, 07:22 AM
Wrong. You will get the DOF "characteristics" of whatever format you are recording. If you're using the S16mm area with a S35mm lens... it doesn't matter. You'll have S16mm DOF "characteristics."

Maybe I didn't say that correctly. For example, if you take a still photo and then crop it (which would compare to using a windowed section of the sensor) the physical DOF wouldn't change. It would change the FOV.

By the way, thanks for the FAQ. There were a couple of us talking about the need for something like that a little while back. Nice job!

Edit: I just read your DOF section of the FAQ. It looks like we're on the same page:-)