Travel Out/ Pick Up Your Camera?

[Harry Clark]

Anyone think it's a good idea to travel to Red headquarters to personally pick up your camera when it's time, or at least to speak with some of the Red Team to get to know the camera? (like a quick tutorial)
For example, without seeing all the bracketry in person, it's hard to get an idea about what suits my needs (do I really need the premium pack or can I use that money for more flash media) Without shooting a bit and trying out different workflows, how will I know how many flash modules or Red Drives to get?
For instance, when I've bought HD gear in the past, I usually take the better part of a day at Abel Cine learning the camera and choosing accessories. Obviously, there's more to learn and buy after that day, but having some quiet time and knowledgeable folks around sure helps initially.
I searched for a thread like this, figuring it's come up already, but couldn't find anything...
Cheers,
Harry

[Steve Gibby]

I think that's a good question Harry. I see you have RED #344. I don't know where you are geographically, but if you're fairly close to a big metropolitan area, there just may be a chance that an equipment rental company with some lower reservation numbers will get theirs before you, and you could visit them to check out and handle the REDs and accessories. Their incentive to let you check them over would obviously be that you may come there to rent some extra RED equipment for a project later on. That may save you a trip to California. Just a thought...

[Harry Clark]

Hey Gibby...
I'm in the New York area. offhollywood has 2 cameras coming in the first batch, so I'm hoping for a little demo or rental time.
But it would be kinda cool to get some face time with the Red team as well...
Cheers,
Harry

[Jim Arthurs]

You raise good points and a good strategy. I consider this a must with the non-traditional nature of the camera and components. Face it, you're not going to pick up any RED knowledge from a local dealer (there isn't any) or rental house that's getting their unit around the same time you are.

I fully intend to do this when my unit comes ready. I will bring my lenses and other gear with me and decide on the full accessory pack at the time.

This will be my first road trip to California since the summer "Howard the Duck" was in the theatres.

God, did I just reference time by "Howard the Duck"?

[jbeale]

I haven't seen such a thread either. Maybe this should await comment from Red regarding their plans for customer support such as this- I don't know if they're doing all sales direct, or planning to have authorized retailers, in which case maybe they would be the place to go. So far we have seen many planning to rent out their RED(s); I'd think that type of company would be another possibility for hands-on time.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

thank God i live 10 min from RED

[Jaime Vallés]

thank God i live 10 min from RED
Bastard. :watsup:

[Tonaci Tran]

I haven't seen such a thread either. Maybe this should await comment from Red regarding their plans for customer support such as this- I don't know if they're doing all sales direct, or planning to have authorized retailers, in which case maybe they would be the place to go. So far we have seen many planning to rent out their RED(s); I'd think that type of company would be another possibility for hands-on time.

Awhile ago Jim mentioned the possibility of such an option to pick up directly from RED. No authorized retailers as far as I know. All sales will be direct.

[Eli Jarra]

Awhile ago Jim mentioned the possibility of such an option to pick up directly from RED. No authorized retailers as far as I know. All sales will be direct.

Hmmm, an interesting topic. One thing to take into consideration before making the trek all the way out to CA, is taking inventory of said product in the same state or having it 'shipped' to a location in the same state makes you the purchaser tax liable for the sale of the product. It may not be the full 8% sales tax, as been previously discussed in another thread, but it may be the difference of purchasing of one of those 'must have' accessories.

[Clayton Harper]

God, did I just reference time by "Howard the Duck"?

That part where they showed the used condom in his wallet gave me nightmares.

Thanks for bringing back the painful memories, Jim. :blink:

[Joe Aurili]

They would probably need to charge you CA sales tax if you picked-up the camera and you are from out of state. If you are in state, then you would need to pay regardless.


Anyone think it's a good idea to travel to Red headquarters to personally pick up your camera when it's time, or at least to speak with some of the Red Team to get to know the camera? (like a quick tutorial)
For example, without seeing all the bracketry in person, it's hard to get an idea about what suits my needs (do I really need the premium pack or can I use that money for more flash media) Without shooting a bit and trying out different workflows, how will I know how many flash modules or Red Drives to get?
For instance, when I've bought HD gear in the past, I usually take the better part of a day at Abel Cine learning the camera and choosing accessories. Obviously, there's more to learn and buy after that day, but having some quiet time and knowledgeable folks around sure helps initially.
I searched for a thread like this, figuring it's come up already, but couldn't find anything...
Cheers,
Harry

[Joe Aurili]

Sort of in lines with this post I missed ;)


Hmmm, an interesting topic. One thing to take into consideration before making the trek all the way out to CA, is taking inventory of said product in the same state or having it 'shipped' to a location in the same state makes you the purchaser tax liable for the sale of the product. It may not be the full 8% sales tax, as been previously discussed in another thread, but it may be the difference of purchasing of one of those 'must have' accessories.

[Jim Arthurs]

I'll probably pay for the camera ahead of time, or work some other arrangement to save having to pay sales tax. Maybe come out, scope it all out then purchase later... or some such. Hard to know right now.

I just want to lay hands on and test all the possible combinations before deciding what accessories to buy. Maybe Gibby's right on, in testing at a local rental house, if they'll let me. Though I bet Film/Video in Denver doesn't have a lower number than I do...


Thanks for bringing back the painful memories, Jim. :blink:

I could have referenced "Space Camp", which I saw on the same trip. That would really be mean. Both movies were graced with the acting chops of Lea Thompson, I just realized.

[Corrado Silveri]

:umm: umm....
About 1500 RedOne's...
Average requests for a "personal visit"... mmm ... 600?
1 day x 600 - holydays/sundays = about a couple of years?
:umm: umm....

[Michael Schrengohst]

I spent a day shooting a press junket with Lea Thomson for "Some Kind of Wonderful". It was a very long day.

[Jim Arthurs]

:umm: umm....
About 1500 RedOne's...
Average requests for a "personal visit"... mmm ... 600?
1 day x 600 - holydays/sundays = about a couple of years?
:umm: umm....

You're right, Elcuardo... but these are the sort of things they need to be prepared for. Customer service is very important, and will have to staff up to handle this. It's not like I'm asking for Mr. Jannard himself to hold my hand for a half-day...

If you show up in person, you should get a complete run-through of the gear and a complete Q&A session. Since this isn't a "standard" camera, there simply won't be many places to get hands on with the whole product line. Bootcamps down the road in the future are a good idea, but you need an orientation with your new gear when you get it, if you want it.

Regards

[Jim Arthurs]

I spent a day shooting a press junket with Lea Thomson for "Some Kind of Wonderful". It was a very long day.

Maybe we should start a "Six Degrees of Lea Thomson" thread...I did all the CGI and compositing for an NBC "Caroline in the City" promo featuring Ms. Thomson and a string of paper dolls forming the NBC Peacock... free-lancing for Computer Cafe...

Darn it... I've got to learn to quit de-railing topics!!!!

[Joe Carney]

That part where they showed the used condom in his wallet gave me nightmares.

Thanks for bringing back the painful memories, Jim. :blink:

I liked the comic, but didn't waste time seeing the movie. Even in Pre Internet days, the word on the street was awful. hehehe
They do a decent remake, hehehe.
(Don't shoot me).

[donatello b]

i plan to pick up from RED
be a nice road trip in the convertible and will visit Gibby along the way ( down or back up) ....

[Corrado Silveri]

I'm with you, Jim.
Was just a thought.
Meanwhile, I've planned to fly to Amsterdam in October (just cancelled my trip to Vegas :waaa:) to meet the Red Staff and -hopefully- bring my own Red's to home!

If my #'s will be ready before that day.... California! (why not?).
If they have just a couple of hours for me...

[Corrado Silveri]

Jim,
sound like you need a HUGE waiting room...

...and a really big test room...

...and a couple of bathrooms....

...and some newspapers...

...and.... oh crap.

[Steve Gibby]

i plan to pick up from RED
be a nice road trip in the convertible and will visit Gibby along the way ( down or back up) ....

On the way down you'll have the convertible floored in anticipation - better use the radar detector and haul ass down the I-5 to Lake Forrest! On the way back cruise up HWY 101 and we'll take both REDs out for a shooting session. Your first stock footage or b-roll couldn't be in a nicer place - the Central Coast.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I just want to lay hands on and test all the possible combinations before deciding what accessories to buy. Maybe Gibby's right on, in testing at a local rental house, if they'll let me. Though I bet Film/Video in Denver doesn't have a lower number than I do...

F/VESCO in Denver doesn't have a reservation that I know of... But that doesn't mean they're not keeping quiet about it or that the entire staff isn't privy to that information.


I could have referenced "Space Camp", which I saw on the same trip. That would really be mean. Both movies were graced with the acting chops of Lea Thompson, I just realized.

Ouch. Space Camp and Howard the Duck on the same trip. I'm sorry to hear that.... hehe.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Our best bet to see it early in Colorado looks to be RED #'s 106 and 107 going to Pete @ 42 in Boulder. Which reminds me that I still need to call him. :)

[Rob Lohman]

thank God i live 10 min from RED

Was that you this morning dressed up outside the office as a construction worker? :ninja:

[Corrado Silveri]

You can't see him, actually.
It's inoculated in your skin, just under the right eyelid.
I receive the signal here in Italy, loud and clear.

So, take care, control your words and pay attention when you go pissing.

:ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja:

[JustinGD]

It's not like I'm asking for Mr. Jannard himself to hold my hand for a half-day...


So does this mean that asking Mr. Jannard to hold hands is frowned upon?

[Jim Arthurs]

Very funny!

Hey, how many females have RED reservations? I'm not talking a female representing a rental house or organization... but a female with a personal reservation?

That would be an interesting statistic to know... my poll number is "zero" on that.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Was that you this morning dressed up outside the office as a construction worker? :ninja:

no.. i dont make it that obvious.. i usually hide in the trees with my invisible suit on

[Zakaree Sandberg]

PS redteam.. since im local and loco..
if you need to expand your customer care team in lieu of the upcoming Red season.. im your man.
I can be at the office in no time at all:)

[Craig Schober]

You're right, Elcuardo... but these are the sort of things they need to be prepared for. Customer service is very important, and will have to staff up to handle this. It's not like I'm asking for Mr. Jannard himself to hold my hand for a half-day...

If you show up in person, you should get a complete run-through of the gear and a complete Q&A session. Since this isn't a "standard" camera, there simply won't be many places to get hands on with the whole product line. Bootcamps down the road in the future are a good idea, but you need an orientation with your new gear when you get it, if you want it.

Regards

since jim jannard put it out there, picking up the cam seems reasonable but i don't think it's fair to expect them to walk through features and questions for everyone that shows up. that's stealing time and resources away from other reservation holder's units from possibly shipping. and isn't that what the user manual is for-to answer 95% of the faqs ahead of time?

i think red users expecting a live tutorial should pony up a small sum for red's time. if you show up at red and they're cool enough to spend an hour with you, great, but i don't think you should show up expecting such great support. it's like showing up back at the car dealers after you bought the car for more test driving. i've driven cars before. if i can't find the cup holders, i'll call them and ask.

[Mike the beginner]

since jim jannard put it out there, picking up the cam seems reasonable but i don't think it's fair to expect them to walk through features and questions for everyone that shows up. that's stealing time and resources away from other reservation holder's units from possibly shipping. and isn't that what the user manual is for-to answer 95% of the faqs ahead of time?

i think red users expecting a live tutorial should pony up a small sum for red's time. if you show up at red and they're cool enough to spend an hour with you, great, but i don't think you should show up expecting such great support. it's like showing up back at the car dealers after you bought the car for more test driving. i've driven cars before. if i can't find the cup holders, i'll call them and ask.

Well said! From a beginner point of view i would never expect someone to spend any more than a hello and maybe a five minute chat with me should i decide to pick the camera up. Come on guys the man makes a great camera at a great price and you want spoon fed with information:greedy:

I can see the point if you want to evaluate something like the shoulder mount with or without cage etc. The camera will have a manual and there is plenty of info on this forum for other items.

IMHO i dont believe there will be a problem with after sales service. All the evidence and comments from Jim Jannard himself is that selling the camera is only part of the deal. Red have aspirations of becoming the "best camera company in the world" you dont do that without providing a better after care service than your competitors.

As Alexander would say....In Red we trust:biggrin:

[Zakaree Sandberg]

im sure there will not only be a red boot camp (hawaii please)
but there will be loads of classes eventually that will teach camera specs

[Jim Arthurs]

Red have aspirations of becoming the "best camera company in the world" you dont do that without providing a better after care service than your competitors.

First, I don't think that the existing development staff needs to be on hand to welcome every new RED owner into the fold... that's not at all what I'm talking about. I don't want an hour with Graeme, followed with an hour with Rob and Stuart, and lunch with Jim J. and a ride around town in the Excursion.

I DO believe they need one or two new hires that serve that purpose. Again, if not at RED H.Q., then where else in the world? It's NOT unreasonable to expect to spend a half day with a qualified RED staff person making decisions and the like on a 20 to 30K purchase.

After NAB the critics will move in mass from "The camera doesn't exist" to "Your service can't meet the needs of the buyers". Right now, we don't have a positive example of customer service. We have good intentions and honorable intent, and quick effort to solve existing problems, but that's not the same as a smoothly working e-commerce site in the first place. Two registration periods showed a fair amount of confusion and dis-organization. How hard is it to register 1500 people and ship 1000 little metal "R"s? Or smoothly process orders and ship out in a timely fashion a bunch of stickers?

Now the bar is raised, and service will have to range from purchases, warranties and camera service... a quantum leap forward in demand. The first "test" will be starting Monday with the re-opening of registration and whatever else is planned.

[Alex Wengert]

Having purchased cameras for a number of years now, it is not unexpected to have the manufacturer go through the new product with you. We are a major supplier of Arriflex equipment in Hollywood, and everytime a new camera is introduced, our technicians are given thorough training on the new technology by an Arriflex representative. Since Red One is "new technology", I am sure that they want whoever owns the camera to know everything about it. The last thing they need is to have the camera fail on a mjor production because of a lack of basic training. That could kill the product.

[Harry Clark]

I don't think it's too much to ask to have a live person walk you through a few menus and demo some accessories for you. Certainly it does not have to be any key personnel that could be doing other things at the company.
In the "car" analogy posted by Wigby, it's as if we are all buying cars sight unseen, that run on a new kind of fuel and have new features, but that we cannot test drive until after we've paid for and received them.
It's pretty common in the film and video equipment world to have a bit of time with the gear before you hand over the $$$.
Cheers,
Harry

[Craig Schober]

I don't think it's too much to ask to have a live person walk you through a few menus and demo some accessories for you. Certainly it does not have to be any key personnel that could be doing other things at the company.
In the "car" analogy posted by Wigby, it's as if we are all buying cars sight unseen, that run on a new kind of fuel and have new features, but that we cannot test drive until after we've paid for and received them.
It's pretty common in the film and video equipment world to have a bit of time with the gear before you hand over the $$$.
Cheers,
Harry
if i had a staff of 14 or so working 24-7 to finish 1500+ orders, i would consider it a great expense to pull a team member away from work to "walk you through a few menus and demo some accessories". that's what user's manuals are for and that's what the nab is for. it might be different if you've placed an order for a lot of cameras or if red had hundreds on staff like arri, pana, sony, etc but they don't. it might even be acceptable for a potential buyer who hasn't placed any deposit yet but you've put down your deposit as a clear intent to buy. are you going to walk away because the menus end up looking different than you have imagined all this time?

maybe i'm just bitter because i'm on the east coast and don't have the luxury to walk in and get a test drive. if i was on the west coast, i might give it a try but i wouldn't expect more than a handshake. this is a small and busy team. and i don't think adding a few reasonably knowlegdable staff members to the team justifies their salaries if their job is to shake hands and show menus/accessories to a few guys that live in the area.

[shaftbond]

instead of just pulling someone away from their work everytime a reservation holder wants a run through, RED could plan specific days where they could take small groups instead of individuals (whether there was a fee involved would be RED's prerogative). I would love to have a half day hands on experience without the crowds of NAB, but it wouldn't necessarily have to coincide with me physically picking up my camera.

[Harry Clark]

FWIW, I'm on the East Coast too... and a busy working professional... so traveling out to CA to get some face time with the gear is not a lark for me. But, it seems like it would be ordinary and proper service to have a staffer who can do this sort of thing. And of course it can be a few of us at the same time.
And it's not likely that this person is sitting in front of the bench assembling Red Ones.
And of course I'm going to buy the camera and the drives and the RAM and the flash and the bracketry anyway.
But I still contend that, based on my many years or working in the film business and buying high-end gear, this request is pretty reasonable.
Cheers,
Harry

[Harry Clark]

Hey Wigby, since you're in Brooklyn and I'm in NYC as well and you have a lower reservation # than me, maybe you could let me see yours before I get mine?
;)
Harry

[Alex Boothby]

A while back the topic of instructional videos was discussed. This is a great way for RED to "walk through" the basics with a large number of people. This could be packaged as a DVD or better yet be posted online for instant accessibility. And the best part is that RED could sub-contract the making of "each chapter" to one of the fine local filmmakers in the community, requiring little of their important time. I disagreed with Stuart that this needed to be a fancy or high-tech production. I think it need only be simple, straightforward information: how to setup the camera, how to work the menu, Redcine overview, etc.

I think the goal should be to get any and all potential Red-users up to speed as quickly and efficiently as possible. This is especially important for renters, camera assistants, freelance camera ops, etc. Hell, I'd probably even buy a video Ipod to rent out with the camera just so video instructions were instantly available in an emergency.

[Billy Summers]

It's not like the owner of Panavision comes down to hold your hand when your at the facilities putting your camera package choosing lenses and such.

[Harry Clark]

Billy, I'm not asking for the owner to be there.
But yes, there are many employees at Panavision and CSC and Clairmont and other rental houses (as are there many employees at Panasonic and Sony and their dealers) who ARE there to hold your hand while you prep a rental package, as well as purchase a personal package.
So again, I think it's a reasonable request.
Cheers,
Harry

[Obin Olson]

boo hoo!! I want to meet Jim dammit! end of story. I don't care about spoon feeding, or hand holding. Jim makes rockin sunglasses, ( I used to race mountain bikes in the day with his eyewear on protecting my face while I flew up and down the track in the US nationals) and he is making the best camera in the world.

I just want to say "Hi" and thanks for being who you are.


cause you FING ROCK!
;)

[Jim Arthurs]

I'm completely surprised at the number of folks who don't think it's important for RED to offer each purchaser some orientation and accessory purchase "face" time. The "only a staff of 14" argument won't hold, because the moment that assembly line fires up, the moment that cameras 12-100 start to go out, that staff number HAS to rise. Let's see... 1500 cameras in the field by the end of October and probably an equal number of new deposits in the wings... yeah, we're talking a hundred employees or so.

As to renting Panavision and Arri and expecting people to know about the cameras... well, there's decades of camera training and culture behind these brands and most working pros can load a mag or know a thing or two...

Finally, there's something else... Obin was close to it... all us reservation holders have taken a journey with the RED team. Some would even say that it was against all odds. Laying your hands on those shiny aluminum and carbon fiber parts and building your own package is well, a sort of "climax" to the whole process. I want that release, dammit! Just having FEDEX show up with a couple boxes ain't good enough for some... :)

[Finner]

Jim what you are requesting is industry standard support on any new high end camera equipment. In fact ARRI, Sony, Panasonic and others hold traveling training seminars often in many cities across US and Canada. RED users willing to travel to their office to attend a training camera seminar is not only good for RED but would be a cheaper option then what other camera companies do. In my opinion RED not offering something like this would be a big mistake.

[Harry Clark]

BTW,
I'm sure the reason that someone from Red has not yet chimed in is that they've been up for 98 hours straight putting the finishing touches on everything for NAB...
Cheers,
Harry

[Craig Schober]

Hey Wigby, since you're in Brooklyn and I'm in NYC as well and you have a lower reservation # than me, maybe you could let me see yours before I get mine?
;)
Harry

sure thing harryclark. i was one of the first to get delivery on the hvx200 and firestore back about a year ago. i had some curious dp friends come over and check it out. they even helped me with some firewire communications errors i was getting so i can attest to the value of a hands-on run through.

let's keep in touch.

[Billy Summers]

Billy, I'm not asking for the owner to be there.
But yes, there are many employees at Panavision and CSC and Clairmont and other rental houses (as are there many employees at Panasonic and Sony and their dealers) who ARE there to hold your hand while you prep a rental package, as well as purchase a personal package.
So again, I think it's a reasonable request.
Cheers,
Harry

Harry, I didn't think you were looking for the owner to be there.
don't get me wrong, I agree with you.
I'm just saying, that there are people for that, (as there should be)
ie. the techs that work with you at Clairmont/Panavision/Arri etc.

best,

Billy-

[Michael Hastings]

I don't think the idea of showing up at the headquarters to pick up and get hands on explanation is industry standard support. Scheduled training classes is completely different than asking to show up and pick up your camera and have someone personally go through it with you - it's just not feasible or practical on a $20K purchase. (Which we all know is a bargain price - with not a lot of this type of extra overhead added in.) Try showing up at Pan or Sony headquarters in New Jersey to pick up your new XDCAM or HVX200 and see what happens.

I am sure as time goes on there will be scheduled training and maybe traveling seminars as well.

I am just like you - I'd like to show up, get a tour, shake Jim's hand, talk to the guys, etc., but since I am also a manufacturer I know that it is just too disruptive to your workflow and various personnel to have that happen regularly.

As far as the hands on accessory pickup - maybe they will be able to open a factory showroom. That probably needs to happen at their own pace.

I will say that shortly after NAB they need to make a serious upgrade to the website to show all of this stuff in much greater detail, all of the products, accessories, workflow issues, etc. - and no longer rely on REDUSER to be the main info source. I am sure they will do this but again we have to remember that at least as of a couple of weeks ago there was only 2 or 3 actual prototypes and only one was even painted.

Finally, Jim's right we have all been on a journey with RED and as such we want and maybe expect more of the close contact. Unfortunately with microbusinesses, the principals sincerely want to give more of that but the Catch-22 is that, while the desire is greater, there is even less ability to get that done than there is in a large organization.


Jim what you are requesting is industry standard support on any new high end camera equipment. In fact ARRI, Sony, Panasonic and others hold traveling training seminars often in many cities across US and Canada. RED users willing to travel to their office to attend a training camera seminar is not only good for RED but would be a cheaper option then what other camera companies do. In my opinion RED not offering something like this would be a big mistake.

[Clayton Harper]

Scheduled training classes is completely different than asking to show up and pick up your camera and have someone personally go through it with you - it's just not feasible or practical on a $20K purchase.

Guess you never bought a car eh? :bleh: Just kidding.

Obviously, there is a serious economy of scale at work in an auto dealership. Its prolly not possible for this "personal pickup" to happen. I guarantee you that the reason we get a 20 thousand dollar 4k camera is because there aint 100 employees over at Red.

[Finner]

I don't think the idea of showing up at the headquarters to pick up and get hands on explanation is industry standard support. Scheduled training classes is completely different than asking to show up and pick up your camera and have someone personally go through it with you

A scheduled training class (1 every 1-2 weeks) is what I was refering to.

[Jim Arthurs]

Oh, but I think there could be a hundred employees at RED... a staggered hire... first JJ and a small core, then 14 to get the proto, then more and more... if you have 1500 cameras in the field and another 1500 or more on deck for delivery... well, you're not doing that with 14 people...

Again, I can't stress enough that I'm not wanting to meet and lounge with the principals... they just need to have a room, and employee #23, who was hired for customer care (maybe one of our friends on this forum), who takes you through your scheduled 3 hour orientation and package prep. They judge demand for this service, and maybe double up with another employee, and later slim down... who knows?

People are still using other cameras and camera companies to say this isn't done... the RED isn't any other camera. Other than the PL mount, battery connections, and standard rail sizes it's pretty darn unique. Maybe it's very simple, maybe very user friendly, but the unique modular nature of the rails/cages/erector set almost demands a personal fit to your unique needs.

Makes me want to go back to playing with my main camera, the one with the Wedge in Filter design.... it had a colorful brouchure and, yes, a full sheet of fancy STICKERS! Just like RED.

Signing out... See you guys at NAB.

[Kenn Christenson]

I agree with others who suggest a training DVD would be the most logical and cost effective teaching tool. Perhaps a web training video could be posted, say on this forum. Current camera users could post feedback about the video, which could be revised based on the feedback - pretty much how Red One was designed.

[J. Bernard Vallon]

the training DVD should be shot on 8mm film.

[Jaime Vallés]

the training DVD should be shot on 8mm film.
That's hillarious!!! :biggrin:

[Kenn Christenson]

the training DVD should be shot on 8mm film.

Isn't that what Rodriguez shot his portion of Grindhouse on?

[chuck colburn]

the training DVD should be shot on 8mm film.

That would be fun. I 've gotta a couple of Sylvania Sun Guns you can use.
Now all you have to decide is to shoot in double eight or Super eight.

[Michael Hastings]

Super eight for that shallow - correction - deep depth of field



That would be fun. I 've gotta a couple of Sylvania Sun Guns you can use.
Now all you have to decide is to shoot in double eight or Super eight.

[Brook Willard]

Isn't that what Rodriguez shot his portion of Grindhouse on?

I've been told it was on the Sony 900.

[edit: but they were wrong...]

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've been told it was on the Sony 900.

Genesis

[Kenn Christenson]

Genesis
Yeah, I know it was the Genisis - just having a little fun. :innocent:

[Brook Willard]

Works for me. I haven't followed the project too closely, I just overheard it last night.

[Clayton Harper]

I heard they shot grindhouse with a Mossberg 500.

[Steve Gibby]

I heard they shot grindhouse with a Mossberg 500.

LOL...buckshot, quail, or pheasant loads?

:rip_1:

[chuck colburn]

I heard they shot grindhouse with a Mossberg 500.

Didn't that come with two different focal length barrels? A 28" long and a 18 1/2" wide alley sweeper?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

It was definitely the 18/2" barrel on the 500 pump and they were running slugs through it. Obviously a rental.

[chuck colburn]

It was definitely the 18/2" barrel on the 500 pump and they were running slugs through it. Obviously a rental.

Jeff....

Your a sick puppy.

Chuck

Ohh. And buy the way, I thought Deer slugs were a east coast thing.

[John K]

A while back the topic of instructional videos was discussed. This is a great way for RED to "walk through" the basics with a large number of people. This could be packaged as a DVD or better yet be posted online for instant accessibility. And the best part is that RED could sub-contract the making of "each chapter" to one of the fine local filmmakers in the community, requiring little of their important time. I disagreed with Stuart that this needed to be a fancy or high-tech production. I think it need only be simple, straightforward information: how to setup the camera, how to work the menu, Redcine overview, etc.

I think the goal should be to get any and all potential Red-users up to speed as quickly and efficiently as possible. This is especially important for renters, camera assistants, freelance camera ops, etc. Hell, I'd probably even buy a video Ipod to rent out with the camera just so video instructions were instantly available in an emergency.
I used to work in the QC section for the buying department of a nationwide department store chain. Consumer electronics can be a nightmare of quite excellent equipment with idiotically designed controls, particualrly the remotes!

What I used to do was try to look at the equipment from the point of view of a non-technical consumer. If I couldn't get all the functions working in three minutes without looking at the manual, that was it, Strike 1, yer out! (Initial tuning in of radio and TV stations will take longer, but all I had to do was get it started)

If it passed that test we'd drag one of the female office staff in to see if they could get it working, this time in ten minutes using the manual if necessary. If they failed, and it we thought it was because the manual was badly written, we'd fail it until they did a re-write. If it was because the controls were not intuitive enough, we'd send the manufacturer a list of things we didn't like, and wait for another sample.

Only then would we start the actual electrical testing. That's because most of the equipment seems to be designed by engineering nerds who don't have a life. Electronically, it's excellent, but the weird remote controls etc make it appear none of them have much contact with someone who isn't a nerd.

In the case of RED, they really need to give one to somebody who isn't all that interested in the RED but who has used HD video cameras before, and see how long it takes them to get some pictures on the screen and in the recorder.

You would only have to do that a few times to spot likely trouble areas and then print up a troubleshooting guide that would cover most situations. It may sound sily, but the trouble with most instruction manuals is that they tend to be written by people who already know how to operate the equipment!

One approach would to have three or more people write their own version of an instruction manual and provide a copy of each version. As long as they didn't contradict each other, if one person's approach didn't work, someone else's might. The principle behind this is that every person has slightly different views on what is most important, with a range of viewpoints the chances of one of them approximately coinciding with the reader's is that much greater. This is why there's such a hugh market for third party operating manuals for commercial software packages.

[Greg Voevodsky]

I'm guessing everyone, get a RED One, Certification next year at Nab just like Avid and FCP. Until them, Im sure this forum and RED will answer every question that you could imagine like they have for the most part this last year. My head still spins on data rates, lenses, depth of field, etc.... Note - I'm going to NAB just to be able to see and get questions answered about RED and other gear in person.

[Mike the beginner]

I imagine we all agree that what red has done is pretty impressive so far.

At NAB red team will concentrate on securing further sales AND meet with many of its first believers. They will look after their reservation holders and ensure they get a special showing of the red footage (i think).

Red will be fully aware what there next step is with regard customer service.

It is clear to me that Jim can get quite sensitive when he feels people are being unreasonable or overly critical. That is understandable given the enormous pressure he must be under with this whole project.

Red has impressed us so far because they have built up a superbly talented team that are top notch at what each individual can bring to the team without the burden and expense of overstaffing. We have all benefitted from this by getting something worth a lot ofr a lot less.

Red is likely to build up its team again selecting unique talented people in whatever area they have good skills in, such as purely customer service related. But surely it is reasonable to give them a wee bit of slack during the first six months of production. It is no easy task to get the customer service area right than it is with building the camera. Some of us will be unlucky and our red one will develop faults or might not even work properly from the start! These things happen with electronics and red will not be immune from that.

Jim Jannard knew all along what was required and how things should be done "at this stage in the red devlopment" He will know what is required for the next stage. Bur right now with 1500 cameras reserved some have already pulled out for whatever reason. This will leave a reasonable number of cameras out there for use by red to do as they please with them. So i doubt anyone will be stuck without a camera for any length of time.

A DVD would solve a lot of problems especially for people in my situation. Nothing complicated just simple easy instructions taking nothing for granted. Some of you might consider that a pro camera should have pro style DVD. That would be a valid point with any normal camera. But red is no normal digital camera. Red is built to last and possibly grow with you throughjout the years. That will encourage people like myself to purchase a red knowing full well that it is overkill for our present purposes. So a surprisingly higher number of purchases than normal will be by guys coming from the prosumer world and into the professional world in one big jump. My guess (just a guess) is that Jarred will be assigned to produce several DVDs staring off with a simple how to use the camera and later on a more detailed pro style DVD for the experienced pro user.

Give red team time to get their breath back from this gigantic mammoth accomplishment. Just a beginners thoughts...thats all.

Mike the beginner

[Steve Connor]

How about manuals and instructional video on a CF stick that you can plug in and watch it back in the field on the camera? Can't be too difficult to achieve.:biggrin:

[Jim Arthurs]

Heck, following this logic, just pre-load the REDDRIVE you purchase with 3 hours of 4K 24p "how to" videos and demo footage...