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Andrew M.
04-12-2007, 10:15 AM
ARRI/Zeiss Master Prime 65mm T1.3 Test


As my Test of Ultra Prime 8R lenses, this is not a full review but looking closer at important aspects of the lenses in terms of Misterium 12MP resolving power.

After doing quick test on Cooke S4 65 and seeing that this was the best lenses I tested so far, I decided to test ARRI/Zeiss 65 T1.3.

And good that I did.

Checking first the opinions about these Master Primes lenses on the different forums, I have seen such statements:
Too much contrast, too sharp, lack of nice softness of Cooke S4

Well, is it good or bad?
For digital picture processing the more contrast you have and more linear lenses response is, then easier to process the data in post. The softness color or contrast, you can adjust in post to anybodys liking.

The focus adjustment on these lenses is even more smooth and precise as compare to UP8R that I already tested. Also the lenses have LDS Lens Data System similar to /I of Cooke for recording the aperture and focus settings.

I put it on the projector, used the same black background test chart and I couldn’t believe what I have seen. No chromatic aberration at all at 200Lp/mm and 5.6.
These lines near number 200 are 2.5 micron wide!!
The estimated light modulation on this 200Lp/mm square about 50%
The test pattern shown below is located near the right edge of the charts S35 frame in section E.

Yes, I got good advice from some forums out there, if you are quality freak then don’t touch anything below 50mm focal length and go for the sweet spot.

Now if you look on the 100Lp/mm square it is approximately how Misterium pixels are spaced, one pixel covers the white line and one covers the black line.
And what happens when we will use only red light, well then move to the square marked 50Lp/mm and for sure you will find one red photo-sensor for one white line and one black line there. The same thing will happen for blue only light.

Extrapolation process will take care of averaging pixels here in such away, that we will not go much below the resolving power of less then 80Lp/mm I hope. Also good extrapolation process will remove or smooth out any pattern distortion.
Conclusion here is, that these lenses can deliver easily, 2 times the resolving power of the Misterium.


I also tested this lenses at T1.3 stop and judge by yourself, see picture below.
CA is wide, (see number 2 in 200) though the intensity of CA is low. Easy to hide, on non white or black backgrounds.

I will post the same pictures for UP8R in its section tomorrow so you can compare why I was freaking out once I have seen the outcome of UP8R.

Now 65mm focal length is good for kind of over the street shots and face and shoulder shots and maybe in porno shots so you can see every….just kidding.
You can use it to show real full 4K this way.
I expect similar performance with any other lenses 50mm and up.

And what are we going to do with the wide angle shots?

I will do the Cooke S4 /I 65 test next.

Andrew

Michael Hastings
04-12-2007, 11:22 AM
Andrew:

It seems that chromatic aberration is the big bugaboo on the wide angles - I remember you were kind of down on the Canon EF-S 10-22, but it seems it was one of the first tests you did, and I am wondering if you have done any reevaluation based on what can be reasonable expected out of an extreme wide angle. Have you done any side by side comparisons on the 8R and the 10-22 and maybe one of the other L series or Sigma/Tamron versions of very wide still lenses. Obviously, CA is more difficult to correct on the wide lenses than on the normal to short telephoto lenses - I am trying to get a sense of what is reasonable to expect out of a wide angle at the various price points and/or regardless of price. As you know we want as wide as reasonably possible underwater. The water clarity becomes a limiting factor the farther you are away from the subject so we are looking to figure out where the sweet spots are.

From what I understand CA is fairly easy to correct in software for stills but given the thousands of frames in motion pictures it would be nice if we could avoid all of that post processing - but it may be necessary no matter what if it is an inherent problem on all of the lenses. (I.E. if an 8R only needs two pixel correction at the edges and none at the middle, and a 10-22 needs 4 pixel correction at the edges and one in the middle then we don't actually get a huge benefit spending the extra $24K because both can be significantly improved in software and as far as I can tell once you get into it it won't make much difference in terms of time whether it is a little correction or a lot.) My understanding from here and from other photographic sites is that the software can be set up for specific lenses and you can get essentially perfect correction.

Maybe the answer as to what are we going to do with the wide angle shots is "fix it in post". For us underwater bubble blowers it may be better to shoot that extreme wide 10 mm to shoot through less water than to shoot with a higher quality 12 or 14mm lens. In other words, we can't easily fix the water clarity in post, but we can fix the known chromatic aberrations of the lens. Obviously, the 8mm is even better in terms of wide angle but $25K is a big chunk of change.

PS we may want to copy this over to the underwater thread as well.


ARRI/Zeiss Master Prime 65mm T1.3 Test


As my Test of Ultra Prime 8R lenses, this is not a full review but looking closer at important aspects of the lenses in terms of Misterium 12MP resolving power.

I put it on the projector, used the same black background test chart and I couldn’t believe what I have seen. No chromatic aberration at all at 200Lp/mm and 5.6
The estimated light modulation on this 200Lp/mm square about 50%
The test pattern shown below is located near the right edge of the charts S35 frame in section E.

Yes, I got good advice from some forums out there, if you are quality freak then don’t touch anything below 50mm focal length and go for the sweet spot.


And what are we going to do with the wide angle shots?

I will do the Cooke S4 /I 65 test next.

Andrew

Jonas Rejman
04-26-2007, 10:14 AM
I could not find an answer for that:

Will it be possible to mount the Masterprimes on the RED?
(my apologies, if this is a stupid (because already answered) question)
How would ARRI's lense data system work with RED?
I do not think, it is compatible with the i/ system, but frame-accurate metadata would ease the postproduction setup.

I like those for the clarity and speed of 1,3 and for their consistency throughout the whole range. I think they are superior to the RED primes.

ARRI has a non-RAW working D20 in fullHD resolution.
I think the RED + Masterprime is the ultimate way to digital 4k.
(considering, you make your choices of softness in the post)

How do you see it?

Jonas

Evin Grant
04-26-2007, 01:59 PM
Will it be possible to mount the Masterprimes on the RED?
Of course, it's a PL mount lens on a PL mount camera.



How would ARRI's lense data system work with RED?
I do not think, it is compatible with the i/ system, but frame-accurate metadata would ease the postproduction setup.
It is not, maybe someone will adapt a set of Master primes to woork with the /I system.



I like those for the clarity and speed of 1,3 and for their consistency throughout the whole range. I think they are superior to the RED primes.


Since no one has ever shot a Red prime I would say that statement is premature. The Red primes are being developed specifically for the Mysterium 4K sensor so I don't think you should discount them. If Red can make a 4K camera for 1/10 the price of the big boys they can probably pull off the best lenses for it at 1/10th the price too.



ARRI has a non-RAW working D20 in fullHD resolution.
I think the RED + Masterprime is the ultimate way to digital 4k.
(considering, you make your choices of softness in the post)
How do you see it?
Jonas

Time and testing will tell.
E.

Greg M
04-26-2007, 09:33 PM
It is not, maybe someone will adapt a set of Master primes to woork with the /I system.





Arri LDS and Cooke i technology are compatable w/ each other...the LDS should work just fine.

Evin Grant
04-26-2007, 10:01 PM
Cool!