Help For The Poor!?!

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

I know that there are a couple of "independent" level of filmmaking... there is the general "non-studio" classification at one extreme and then there is the I am going to invest my life savings to buy a Red and hope for the best type of independent filmmaking. I thank Red dearly for the opportunities that it is offering the Studio & Independent spectrum. However, I spent so much time on these threads trying to learn what is comming my way... the closer my ship date gets the higher my heart rate. For most, their heart rate and release date bring anxiety because they are still looking underneath their couch looking for spare change... I on the other hand have turned over enough couches, but lack true understanding. I have PM'd a number of seemingly knowlageable users from this forums and none have offered any help. I know that we are all extremely busy and don't hold anything negative in my heart for it. I know that right now I don't have the personal time to instruct someone on the things that I know. But what confounds me is this... some of the users spend hours per day, going back and forth arguing the different sides of a coin, nevertheless extremely interesting for those who understand, but a bit scary for those of us who don't. I have tried to use search tools, but all I keep on reading are arguments after argument of the way things are going to be, should be theorizing a mega-company that we have no idea where it is truly going to go. Is there anyone... anyone that can take the time to explain workflow? Please... if it is through installments or whatever it is... basics one day, one post per week, two months later done with the extremely advanced. I know that it seems a bit unfair to ask for... and believe me, I am not one of those people that believes that the world owes them everything. I just believe that it will be a big help for the red team... they are extrememly busy to take care of this right now. Please understand that the people involved with this process right now are going to be the Red pioneers and as Jim has already illustrated, the footage that comes out of here impress on everyone else what red "is about." I for one, will not boast about Red if I can't use if to its full efficiency and effectiveness... because I don't want to be a negative for a company that has been such a positive in my life... IN ALL OF US!!!! If there is anyone out there, please illuminate us so that what the world sees from "RedUsers" is the best that can be delievered...
:bye2: I hope someone read this.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

different worklfows for different delivery formats, different workflows for different pockets...

choose: red to.....

web---fast and dirty
web---with hq downscaling/compressing

sd---fast and dirty workflow
sd---with high quality downscaling workflow

hd 1080p----fast and dirty w.
hd 1080p----indy 10 bit pro res w.
hd 1080p----offline/online uncommpressed 10 bit
hd 1080p----offline/online dpx route
hd 1080p----online worklfow

2k----fast and dirty
2k----indy 2k uncompressed QT offline/online
2k----FILMOUT...indystyle dpx log RGB route
2k----FILMOUT...High End route
2k----DCI...HighEnd

4k----uncompressed Online_--get in touch with a postsupervisor/posthouse....because people who already know how to handle this type, have the hardware and experience...

like written there, different budgets, needs, hardware....create the workflow.
for a lot of the workflows i would recommand to get in contact with a posthouse....


hope this helps

[Obin Olson]

not for the poor just the ones that know premiere cs3 kicks fcp ass. ;)

Let's get some native support going!

[Johann Schulz]

Obviously, from all the new threads in the past couple of days about not understanding RED's "workflow", there could be a newbie statement on this, but I don't think it's necessary. It's not exactly rocket science, but it's not for those who have trouble with a foreign language, either.

Maybe there'll be a day when you can choose your k's and your colours like in iMovie, but this cam at the moment can compete and is competing with 35mm film. You've got to make some technical choices, on hardware and in software. Choose what you want to shoot in, and where and how you want to show it, and this may start to get you in the right direction, as K. Berlin has noted.

It's complicated for 'poor' filmmakers because RED really has knocked down most of the boundaries and constrictions associated with incrimental camcorder development. They've created a new league, my friend, so when the ball hits you in the face, don't forget to smile, 'cause we'll see it all, in what many are saying is a whole new tone in image, and we'll be rooting for you! Maybe there's more than one way?.....

And by the way, don't get me wrong. I've said alot without really saying anything. My point is, if you've really checked out this site and looked at RED Support, you'll see minimum computer requirements, recommended setups, ideal workstations, completed projects and how they did it. The list is endless. Get some hands-on experience in your area. Network, and let the worry-bugs fly away.....

obin: "What you talkin' about, Willis!?" :>)

[Erik Bien]

We had our post guys take online classes through FXPhD (http://www.fxphd.com/): if you want to get up to speed quickly I think they're a great value for the money.

[Dan Hudgins]

I hope someone read this.

For the last several years I have been working on code for a low cost 4K DI workflow.

Right now I am working on TIF I/O so that RED ONE (tm) footage can be loaded into my system using 16bit (48bpp) TIFF REDLog (tm) files made by RED ALERT (tm) and RED CINE (tm) . From that point my system does everything up to the DIY film recorder.

I still have some things to improve, but you can try it today is you use XnView to convert the TIFF into BMP, soon I should have native 16bit TIFF Import/Export.

My system is "freeish" you need to report any bugs you might find, it is setup to do any res from 0K up to maybe 15K. Doing 2K at home on a few PCs should be workable, for a 4K DI you would want more than several PCs if you need things done quick.

If you are serious about making feature films for release on 35mm or 70mm film it should be possable without much money if you want to spend the time required to get your own edit setup (two computers required) and build a film recorder. It would be in your interest to PM me and stay tuned, since you are not alone in wanting to make great films w/o lavish funds.

I am sorry that I do not have good documentation now on what has been done so far, but you can contact me for support by email if you want to help "Beta Test".


Workflow being developed:

DANCINES.EXE (tm) [for DIY film scans],
RED Alert,
RED Cine > TIFF > DANCAD87.EXE (tm) > DANCINEL.EXE (tm) [for DIY filmout]
> TIFF for other film recorder
> BMP > VirtualDUB (tm) > DVD

Simple, low cost, versatile.

Not the fastest, but it is a film analog workflow that is all uncompressed frame based. The audio is also frame based so sync is 100% positive lock.
Right now you need to use XnView (tm) or some other TIFF to BMP, BMP to TIFF converter but that will change when I get 48bpp 16bit TIFF RGB working in the release version. From what I have seen with my development code, the RED ONE (tm) footage looks very good in my system's high color bit depth workflow, MUCH better than anything you see posted as a JPG file here, MUCH better, the 4K TIFF REDLog files look spectacular processed fully uncompressed, if they would put the RAW port back in the camera they would really have something, even so, the RED CODE (tm) footage looks good processed uncompressed from the TIFF files. It is not possable for me to post a JPG image here to show you how much better 4K RED ONE (tm) footage it looks displayed uncompressed in my program in direct SVGA 32bpp mode on the CRT monitor at 1920x1440 (height reduced to 2:1 aspect). There is a great deal of tone detail in the TIFF files that seems to get lost the way people are grading their shots, my system can hold the tonal range well if the grading tools are used properly.

All the programs listed are free or freeish. 2K or 4K uncompressed DI done on junk computers and a few mid range PCs.

[Johann Schulz]

Wow! The poor are overwhelmed, I hope! Erik, that's a great way to fit learning in. As I'm far away, I'm checking it out as a serious option. Thanks.

And DANCAD3D, you're like Mr. Hanks in "Castaway", only different! What an innovator! Lots of your time and effort's invested - I hope it pays off for you.